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Chemistry anyone?
Posted by Phil Goode
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Chemistry anyone? October 02, 2003 03:44AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
<HTML>I just finished doing a bit of research about the bonding between car and sealant. Piant sealant that is amino functional....never even new aminos did what they did, much less with silicones and paint.
Bottom line, I now have a small understanding how my products work and moreover, how to use them and even more importantly, how to sell them.
Buds point about using the right chemical for the right job was repeated in many of the recent threads, so it drove me into a curious frenzy to discover what these things even do. Now with that being said (or written) one thing this newfound knowledge gives me is the ability to help set myself apart from the other guys in town who wash, wax and shampoo and call it a detail. THOSE are the guys that might apply at the places Jim (?) wrote about in an earlier post.
I can wash, wax and shampoo, but I call it a wash, wax and shampoo.
Actually studying my craft helps me become a better detailer.
Food for thought; I can be better than the other guys, but I want to be the best I can be. THAT is what will set me apart.
Anyone else have comments along this line of thinking?</HTML>
Bottom line, I now have a small understanding how my products work and moreover, how to use them and even more importantly, how to sell them.
Buds point about using the right chemical for the right job was repeated in many of the recent threads, so it drove me into a curious frenzy to discover what these things even do. Now with that being said (or written) one thing this newfound knowledge gives me is the ability to help set myself apart from the other guys in town who wash, wax and shampoo and call it a detail. THOSE are the guys that might apply at the places Jim (?) wrote about in an earlier post.
I can wash, wax and shampoo, but I call it a wash, wax and shampoo.
Actually studying my craft helps me become a better detailer.
Food for thought; I can be better than the other guys, but I want to be the best I can be. THAT is what will set me apart.
Anyone else have comments along this line of thinking?</HTML>
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Re: Chemistry anyone? October 02, 2003 04:11AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 894 |
<HTML>I think their will always be a market for good clean old detailing in the proper market. People take notice when you actually "clean" a surface and dress as needed, instead of slap on some solvent based dressing and hide dirt. I know all too well the kind of detailing that goes on at car washes. It is this kind of "hide the dirt" "get rid of the fallout...fast!" "then apply a 30 day wax to cover our damage from removing the fallout" mentality that is just pissing consumers off! But what astounds me is the 90% of the general public that has no clue that their local car wash has just ruined their paint job. I really just dont get why people cant understand that detailing is like changing their oil. We maintain the largest part of a vehicle! Oh well, enough crying, you wanted some ideas and thats all I could come up with as of now!</HTML>
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Re: Chemistry anyone? October 02, 2003 04:42AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
<HTML>Couldnt agree more with you guys, this has been bugging me for some time . Like you Phil, I have done a lot of research in to our profession , learning all about sealants, buffing techniques etc , and just from this forum and what I have learnt here, I truly believe I could walk in to any "detailer " shop in this town and outperform any of them , I could aslo educate their customers beyond anything that the "detail shop" could tell them.
I think one of the problems is that the general public really have no concept of what a real detail involves, nor to they understand that there is a lot of science that goes on behind the scenes to produce the products we use to make thier car look like new. Too many people think of detailing as just a "good clean" and not also as "protection package". What further compounds the problem is that alot of these "car washes" have the means to advertise their service and they can perfom their service very quickly, and people want conveinece. The traditional detailer may not have the resources to compete on the level that the car washes do , so yes, they do more damage to the vehicle than they do good, and the make a lot of money out of it.
One of the ways this may change is when detailing starts to become a more recognized service. I dont think it will ever grow to the stage that the oil change business is right now , but I know that Ford are starting to look a little closer at detailing in their dealerships. Our dealership is now moving towards trying to make this a bigger part of the business , we advertise our detail services and so far we are getting avery good response. There was some talk a few years ago of Ford actually setting up some certification process for dealer detailers, they did produce a training video for delarship staff, and we still use this today . I am still waiting to hear back from the Ford Training program to find out if this is going ahead or not. Ford also now has a website for its dealers to go to to get technical service bulletins applicable to detailing , and Ford approved chemicals etc.
I was talking to the owner of another Ford dealership a few weeks ago, ( and I am prety sure I also read an article about this online ) , that some people believe that in an ever growing auto market , the dealers are looking for ways to increase sales and make money, fully fledged dealership detail bays may not be too far off in the future. The dealers are always looking for ways to increase profits/turnover etc , and this may be one of the next growth areas according to some people in the industry.
Over the last few months I have picked up so much good information from this website that it amazes me how little I really knew about detailing . A lot of the information on here is priceless, some of it is pure crap, but for the large part, there are some very talented and generous people who post a lot of good information here .
I have collected a lot of it, and if you like, to save reposting it all here , I can send it to you in e-mail.
I've gone on way too long again, hope I didnt bore you too much !!
Jim.</HTML>
I think one of the problems is that the general public really have no concept of what a real detail involves, nor to they understand that there is a lot of science that goes on behind the scenes to produce the products we use to make thier car look like new. Too many people think of detailing as just a "good clean" and not also as "protection package". What further compounds the problem is that alot of these "car washes" have the means to advertise their service and they can perfom their service very quickly, and people want conveinece. The traditional detailer may not have the resources to compete on the level that the car washes do , so yes, they do more damage to the vehicle than they do good, and the make a lot of money out of it.
One of the ways this may change is when detailing starts to become a more recognized service. I dont think it will ever grow to the stage that the oil change business is right now , but I know that Ford are starting to look a little closer at detailing in their dealerships. Our dealership is now moving towards trying to make this a bigger part of the business , we advertise our detail services and so far we are getting avery good response. There was some talk a few years ago of Ford actually setting up some certification process for dealer detailers, they did produce a training video for delarship staff, and we still use this today . I am still waiting to hear back from the Ford Training program to find out if this is going ahead or not. Ford also now has a website for its dealers to go to to get technical service bulletins applicable to detailing , and Ford approved chemicals etc.
I was talking to the owner of another Ford dealership a few weeks ago, ( and I am prety sure I also read an article about this online ) , that some people believe that in an ever growing auto market , the dealers are looking for ways to increase sales and make money, fully fledged dealership detail bays may not be too far off in the future. The dealers are always looking for ways to increase profits/turnover etc , and this may be one of the next growth areas according to some people in the industry.
Over the last few months I have picked up so much good information from this website that it amazes me how little I really knew about detailing . A lot of the information on here is priceless, some of it is pure crap, but for the large part, there are some very talented and generous people who post a lot of good information here .
I have collected a lot of it, and if you like, to save reposting it all here , I can send it to you in e-mail.
I've gone on way too long again, hope I didnt bore you too much !!
Jim.</HTML>
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Re: Chemistry anyone? October 03, 2003 10:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 237 |
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Re: Chemistry anyone? October 03, 2003 11:12PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
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Re: Chemistry anyone? October 04, 2003 01:58AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 56 |
<HTML>Add me to your email list, Jim. I'd really apreciate it. Good to see Ford is considering true detailing services for their dealerships. I hope Gm & DCM are doing the same. My only question is why are they only looking into this now. All of the Japanese & German dealerships already have full-blown detail shops either on site or that they farm their detailing out to. The ones at the Japanese shops to beautiful work!!! The used cars look better than the new ones when they get done with them!!
At any rate, it sure is good to know, Jim. It can open an untapped market to mobile detailers. On the other hand, if they go in house, are they just gonna hire a bunch of lackeys for $8/hour? Unless they pay a professional wage with full benefits, they won't get any long-term employees or consistent quality from their shop.
Rod</HTML>
At any rate, it sure is good to know, Jim. It can open an untapped market to mobile detailers. On the other hand, if they go in house, are they just gonna hire a bunch of lackeys for $8/hour? Unless they pay a professional wage with full benefits, they won't get any long-term employees or consistent quality from their shop.
Rod</HTML>
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Re: Chemistry anyone? October 05, 2003 06:20PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
<HTML>Rod, at our dealership we are paid well, and get the same benefits as the other members of staff , for example we are able to buy new Fords under the D plan (new vehicle at cost to the dealer) we also get full benefits. We get about the going rate around here, slightly higher actually .
The dealers will have to decide eventually if they want to compete or not, I think the smart ones will, and have their staff trained properly. We are encouraged to try new things, seek out new methods and given a lot of freedom to run our own department and purchase equipment and chemicals.
The dealership does see the improvment in the vehicles and so do our customers. We are currnetly looking in to Express Detailing in a big way..we have over a thousand vehicles a month go through our wash rack, if we could some of them in to the Express Detail we could make a lot of money, thats the secret to presenting it to the dealers , showing them the huge profit potential. I am lucky to work for this dealership, the owner is a very switched on guy who knows a smart idea when he sees one.
I'll e-mail the stuff I have collected out to you this afternnoon guys.
Jim</HTML>
The dealers will have to decide eventually if they want to compete or not, I think the smart ones will, and have their staff trained properly. We are encouraged to try new things, seek out new methods and given a lot of freedom to run our own department and purchase equipment and chemicals.
The dealership does see the improvment in the vehicles and so do our customers. We are currnetly looking in to Express Detailing in a big way..we have over a thousand vehicles a month go through our wash rack, if we could some of them in to the Express Detail we could make a lot of money, thats the secret to presenting it to the dealers , showing them the huge profit potential. I am lucky to work for this dealership, the owner is a very switched on guy who knows a smart idea when he sees one.
I'll e-mail the stuff I have collected out to you this afternnoon guys.
Jim</HTML>
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Re: Chemistry anyone? October 07, 2003 03:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Phil:
Glad that some of what I might have said on the forum is of value to you.
Let me ask all of you a few things about chemistry to see what you know and don't know:
1. Do you know what the term "surface tension" refers to and why it is important?
2. Do you know how soil sticks to carpet fibers?
3. Do you know the process for removing it? And, what types of ingredients are in carpet shampoos to get this dirt off?
4. Do you know what alcohol does in a glass cleaner? What about ammonia? Why are there some cleaners without alcohol?
5. Do you understand what pH is all about?
There is so much that needs to be known about the chemistry of the chemicals we use.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Glad that some of what I might have said on the forum is of value to you.
Let me ask all of you a few things about chemistry to see what you know and don't know:
1. Do you know what the term "surface tension" refers to and why it is important?
2. Do you know how soil sticks to carpet fibers?
3. Do you know the process for removing it? And, what types of ingredients are in carpet shampoos to get this dirt off?
4. Do you know what alcohol does in a glass cleaner? What about ammonia? Why are there some cleaners without alcohol?
5. Do you understand what pH is all about?
There is so much that needs to be known about the chemistry of the chemicals we use.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Chemistry anyone? October 07, 2003 03:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Phil:
Glad that some of what I might have said on the forum is of value to you.
Let me ask all of you a few things about chemistry to see what you know and don't know:
1. Do you know what the term "surface tension" refers to and why it is important?
2. Do you know how soil sticks to carpet fibers?
3. Do you know the process for removing it? And, what types of ingredients are in carpet shampoos to get this dirt off?
4. Do you know what alcohol does in a glass cleaner? What about ammonia? Why are there some cleaners without alcohol?
5. Do you understand what pH is all about?
There is so much that needs to be known about the chemistry of the chemicals we use.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Glad that some of what I might have said on the forum is of value to you.
Let me ask all of you a few things about chemistry to see what you know and don't know:
1. Do you know what the term "surface tension" refers to and why it is important?
2. Do you know how soil sticks to carpet fibers?
3. Do you know the process for removing it? And, what types of ingredients are in carpet shampoos to get this dirt off?
4. Do you know what alcohol does in a glass cleaner? What about ammonia? Why are there some cleaners without alcohol?
5. Do you understand what pH is all about?
There is so much that needs to be known about the chemistry of the chemicals we use.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Chemistry anyone? October 07, 2003 07:44PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
<HTML>Well, honestly, the answers would mostly be resounding.."no".
I know what works for what situation but could not always explain why. That is why I did the research I wrote about earlier.
If someone were to post the reasons these things work, I would save it and memorize it.
On the other hand, if someone were to offer a commercial regarding a book or videos they had with this info therein, I would soned the money. Either way, i want to be able to answer these questions for my clients...and Bud, next time hes asks.</HTML>
I know what works for what situation but could not always explain why. That is why I did the research I wrote about earlier.
If someone were to post the reasons these things work, I would save it and memorize it.
On the other hand, if someone were to offer a commercial regarding a book or videos they had with this info therein, I would soned the money. Either way, i want to be able to answer these questions for my clients...and Bud, next time hes asks.</HTML>
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Re: Chemistry anyone? Update , uncanny ! October 08, 2003 01:39AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
<HTML>Intresting article in this months issue of 'Professional Cawwashing & Detailing..her are some excerpts...
Detailers: is the wolf at the door.
"Detailers wondering how the future of their business could shape up
would be smart to take a look at some intresting developments in the fast lube industry."
"While fast lubes will never be able to entirely insulate themselves from the competitive threat posed by automobile dealers, the lube industry has protected itself to some degree by building a favorable reputation among the motoring public. In short, many people feel more comfortable at a fast lube than a car dealership. However the detailing industry does not enjoy this measure of protection. What would happen to independent dealers if automobile dealers decided en masse to attack this market ? Automobile dealers are already engaged in pre-sale detailing, whether they are performing the services in-house or sub-contracting them. A good number of automobile dealers, frustrated with fly-by-night, low-balling detailers with little skills, are bringing detailing services in house.
So,the infrastructure is in place at many dealerships to start offering after-market detailing services, all that is needed is the will. Because detailing falls under the preventative maintenance umbrella and because dealers are observant enough to know there is money to be made retail detailing, this 'will' may eventually develop. If this happens , the detailing industry could suffer dearly if it fails to improve it's professionalism and build a level of consumer confidence.
The truth is , mnay motorists would feel more comfortable going to their dealership for detailing services than mnay typical detail shops.
After all , the wolf may not yet be at the door, but he's probably picked up our scent."</HTML>
Detailers: is the wolf at the door.
"Detailers wondering how the future of their business could shape up
would be smart to take a look at some intresting developments in the fast lube industry."
"While fast lubes will never be able to entirely insulate themselves from the competitive threat posed by automobile dealers, the lube industry has protected itself to some degree by building a favorable reputation among the motoring public. In short, many people feel more comfortable at a fast lube than a car dealership. However the detailing industry does not enjoy this measure of protection. What would happen to independent dealers if automobile dealers decided en masse to attack this market ? Automobile dealers are already engaged in pre-sale detailing, whether they are performing the services in-house or sub-contracting them. A good number of automobile dealers, frustrated with fly-by-night, low-balling detailers with little skills, are bringing detailing services in house.
So,the infrastructure is in place at many dealerships to start offering after-market detailing services, all that is needed is the will. Because detailing falls under the preventative maintenance umbrella and because dealers are observant enough to know there is money to be made retail detailing, this 'will' may eventually develop. If this happens , the detailing industry could suffer dearly if it fails to improve it's professionalism and build a level of consumer confidence.
The truth is , mnay motorists would feel more comfortable going to their dealership for detailing services than mnay typical detail shops.
After all , the wolf may not yet be at the door, but he's probably picked up our scent."</HTML>
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Re: Chemistry anyone? Update , uncanny ! October 08, 2003 03:08AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
<HTML>Alright, I'll give it a shot Bud ...
1/ Surface tension.
The cohesive forces between liquid molecules are responsible for the phenomenon known as surface tension. The molecules at the surface do not have other like molecules on all sides of them and consequently they cohere more strongly to those directly associated with them on the surface.
Ok, I looked that one up on the net and I have no idea waht it really means, I am guessing it is somthing to do with how strong the bond is between the moleucles in a sealant , and the ones in the paint for example ?
2/ The carpet fibers can actually filter out small dust particles from the air , static can also trap them in the the fibers. Old cleaning agents intoduced when the carpets were previuosly cleaned can also trap dirt and contaminants .
3/ Clean with a hot water extractor and make sure its dried properly to prevent "wicking" and mildew. Let the heat of the water do the work by breaking down the dirt . The extractor fluid can contain ...alkalines and surfactants ( or soaps) to loosen dirt , water-soluble solvents to degrease oils etc . Some extractor fluids can also contain optical brightners etc.
4/ Alcohol in a glass cleaner helps to reduce smears and streaks (allegedly) but can damge some window tints, and ammonia is great for cleaning glass, but not great for overspraying on the interior .
5. The pH is the technical measurement of the acidity or alkalinity of aqueous solutions. The scale ranges from 0 to 14. A pH measurement of 7 is neutral (neither acid or alkali) which is the reading for distilled water. A pH reading from 0 to 6.99 is an acid while a solution that has a pH from 7.01 to 14 is alkaline.
There you go, please send my Nobel Physics in Detailing award to my home address , thank you.
I'll be honest, some of this I knew , and the rest I got from some of the resources I use on the net , so some of it is undoubteldy wrong !
Here's where I got it from .
<a href="[www.autoint.com] Values</a>
<a href="[www.proschoice.com]; Soil build up</a>
Jim.</HTML>
1/ Surface tension.
The cohesive forces between liquid molecules are responsible for the phenomenon known as surface tension. The molecules at the surface do not have other like molecules on all sides of them and consequently they cohere more strongly to those directly associated with them on the surface.
Ok, I looked that one up on the net and I have no idea waht it really means, I am guessing it is somthing to do with how strong the bond is between the moleucles in a sealant , and the ones in the paint for example ?
2/ The carpet fibers can actually filter out small dust particles from the air , static can also trap them in the the fibers. Old cleaning agents intoduced when the carpets were previuosly cleaned can also trap dirt and contaminants .
3/ Clean with a hot water extractor and make sure its dried properly to prevent "wicking" and mildew. Let the heat of the water do the work by breaking down the dirt . The extractor fluid can contain ...alkalines and surfactants ( or soaps) to loosen dirt , water-soluble solvents to degrease oils etc . Some extractor fluids can also contain optical brightners etc.
4/ Alcohol in a glass cleaner helps to reduce smears and streaks (allegedly) but can damge some window tints, and ammonia is great for cleaning glass, but not great for overspraying on the interior .
5. The pH is the technical measurement of the acidity or alkalinity of aqueous solutions. The scale ranges from 0 to 14. A pH measurement of 7 is neutral (neither acid or alkali) which is the reading for distilled water. A pH reading from 0 to 6.99 is an acid while a solution that has a pH from 7.01 to 14 is alkaline.
There you go, please send my Nobel Physics in Detailing award to my home address , thank you.
I'll be honest, some of this I knew , and the rest I got from some of the resources I use on the net , so some of it is undoubteldy wrong !
Here's where I got it from .
<a href="[www.autoint.com] Values</a>
<a href="[www.proschoice.com]; Soil build up</a>
Jim.</HTML>
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Re: Chemistry anyone? Update , uncanny ! October 08, 2003 05:36AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Jim:
Thanks for answering the questions. I do not think it is my place to be a teacher on the forum. I only present these questions so that people might begin to "know what they don't know."
I have always believed that a smart person "knows what they don't know."
If you know what you don't know you will not make mistakes and blunder ahead with no knowledge of the dangers that might be ahead. In this case not understanding paint finishes and not being able to identify the paint finish problems, how can you work on them. If you know you have limited knowledge in these areas you will be more cautious or try to get the information. However, if you don't even know you don't know how can you learn?
I think it is up to all detailers to try and answer these questions on their own. If you want more such questions just ask, as old Jimmy Durante used to say, "I gotta million of them!"
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
Thanks for answering the questions. I do not think it is my place to be a teacher on the forum. I only present these questions so that people might begin to "know what they don't know."
I have always believed that a smart person "knows what they don't know."
If you know what you don't know you will not make mistakes and blunder ahead with no knowledge of the dangers that might be ahead. In this case not understanding paint finishes and not being able to identify the paint finish problems, how can you work on them. If you know you have limited knowledge in these areas you will be more cautious or try to get the information. However, if you don't even know you don't know how can you learn?
I think it is up to all detailers to try and answer these questions on their own. If you want more such questions just ask, as old Jimmy Durante used to say, "I gotta million of them!"
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: Chemistry anyone? Update , uncanny ! October 10, 2003 01:42AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>I have better questions:
1. What exactly is GLOSS?
2. How does one change the DEPTH of a finish (i.e. "Wax 'X' adds depth to my finish")?
3. Why do synthetics look "plasticky" while Carnuba Wax looks "wet"?
4. How many types of chemical bonding are there? Name them:
5. pH is a measure of alkalinity or acidity right? Why do we care?
6. What is vinyl? Acrylic? Polyester? Nylon? Styrene? PVA?
7. What is synthetic foam made from? Why is it better/worse than wool?
8. What do hydrophobic/hydrophilic mean? Why would we care?
Answer these grasshopper and you may well be on your way...
P.S. Let them answer first Bud!</HTML>
1. What exactly is GLOSS?
2. How does one change the DEPTH of a finish (i.e. "Wax 'X' adds depth to my finish")?
3. Why do synthetics look "plasticky" while Carnuba Wax looks "wet"?
4. How many types of chemical bonding are there? Name them:
5. pH is a measure of alkalinity or acidity right? Why do we care?
6. What is vinyl? Acrylic? Polyester? Nylon? Styrene? PVA?
7. What is synthetic foam made from? Why is it better/worse than wool?
8. What do hydrophobic/hydrophilic mean? Why would we care?
Answer these grasshopper and you may well be on your way...
P.S. Let them answer first Bud!</HTML>
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Re: Chemistry anyone? Update , uncanny ! October 15, 2003 04:12AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Robert:
Since no one is answering I will give you my answers and see what you think:
1. Gloss is surface luster or brightness, measured objectively by a Glossometer.
2. How to change Depth of a finish - done by adding gloss to the surface with the use of a wax or sealant product. The clearer the gloss image, the deeper the depth of gloss appears. There is no single "magic" components but is accomplished with the proper and precise blend of various wax/sealant chemicals.
3. Why do synthetics look "plasticky" while carnuaba wax looks wet? This is too generalized a statement that is not always true. Can you expand on this please, or state it so it is not so general.
4. Types of chemical bonding - Chemical bonding comes in many forms. The most simple is really a physical, and not a chemical bond, and that is static charge bonding. The charge on the surface is different than the charge on the product and the two attract and "bond" to one another.
INTRAMOLECULAR BONDING - Covalent, Ionic, Metallic
INTERMOLECULAR BONDING - Hydrogen bonds, Van De Waals Forces, Molecule-Ion Attractions
5. pH is a measure of alkalinity or acidity, so what? - Alkalinity and acidity values are common to cleaning products and can help to determine whether a product will be effective or not. Additionally, too much of each may be harmful to the object that is being cleaned; to the individual using the product; and to the environment. Also a product may not be stable and useable if the proper value of acidity or alkalinity is not achieved.
6. What is vinyl; acrylic; polyester; nylon; styrene; PVA????
These "what is" terms could each take a book to explain in any sort of detail or depth. All of the items mentioned are polymers and most can actuallly be resins. If you want more detail on each click on to the internet and see what you get. Or, ask me and I will do what I can in more depth.
7. Synthetic foam, what is it; better or worse than wool??
Synthetic foam can be made from any number of man made materials. I will find out what resin is used in our pads and let you all know. These pads are not necessarily better than wool. Wool is better for faster and heavier cutting, and foam is better for a finer more swirl free finish.
8. What do hydrophobic and hydrophilic mean, so what?
Hydrophobic means water "fear or dislike." Such a product will not mix well with water and will separate when blended with water. Mineral oil would be a hydrophobic substance. These products typically cannot be readily diluted with water.
Hydrophilic means "Water Loving." These products easily mix with water. A carwash soap would be considered a hydrophilic mixture. These products can easily be diluted with water.
Robert, that was a good exercise for me but it would be difficult for the average detailer to obtain this information and when done I am not sure it has any meaningful benefit to them. These are too chemical a discussion.
The detailer needs to know the basic chemistry of the products they are using but they do not need to know all of this information, in my humble opinion.
What say you detailers, what do you think?????
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Since no one is answering I will give you my answers and see what you think:
1. Gloss is surface luster or brightness, measured objectively by a Glossometer.
2. How to change Depth of a finish - done by adding gloss to the surface with the use of a wax or sealant product. The clearer the gloss image, the deeper the depth of gloss appears. There is no single "magic" components but is accomplished with the proper and precise blend of various wax/sealant chemicals.
3. Why do synthetics look "plasticky" while carnuaba wax looks wet? This is too generalized a statement that is not always true. Can you expand on this please, or state it so it is not so general.
4. Types of chemical bonding - Chemical bonding comes in many forms. The most simple is really a physical, and not a chemical bond, and that is static charge bonding. The charge on the surface is different than the charge on the product and the two attract and "bond" to one another.
INTRAMOLECULAR BONDING - Covalent, Ionic, Metallic
INTERMOLECULAR BONDING - Hydrogen bonds, Van De Waals Forces, Molecule-Ion Attractions
5. pH is a measure of alkalinity or acidity, so what? - Alkalinity and acidity values are common to cleaning products and can help to determine whether a product will be effective or not. Additionally, too much of each may be harmful to the object that is being cleaned; to the individual using the product; and to the environment. Also a product may not be stable and useable if the proper value of acidity or alkalinity is not achieved.
6. What is vinyl; acrylic; polyester; nylon; styrene; PVA????
These "what is" terms could each take a book to explain in any sort of detail or depth. All of the items mentioned are polymers and most can actuallly be resins. If you want more detail on each click on to the internet and see what you get. Or, ask me and I will do what I can in more depth.
7. Synthetic foam, what is it; better or worse than wool??
Synthetic foam can be made from any number of man made materials. I will find out what resin is used in our pads and let you all know. These pads are not necessarily better than wool. Wool is better for faster and heavier cutting, and foam is better for a finer more swirl free finish.
8. What do hydrophobic and hydrophilic mean, so what?
Hydrophobic means water "fear or dislike." Such a product will not mix well with water and will separate when blended with water. Mineral oil would be a hydrophobic substance. These products typically cannot be readily diluted with water.
Hydrophilic means "Water Loving." These products easily mix with water. A carwash soap would be considered a hydrophilic mixture. These products can easily be diluted with water.
Robert, that was a good exercise for me but it would be difficult for the average detailer to obtain this information and when done I am not sure it has any meaningful benefit to them. These are too chemical a discussion.
The detailer needs to know the basic chemistry of the products they are using but they do not need to know all of this information, in my humble opinion.
What say you detailers, what do you think?????
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Chemistry anyone? Update , uncanny ! October 16, 2003 04:24AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
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Re: Chemistry anyone? Update , uncanny ! October 16, 2003 05:44AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>Bud excellent job answering. The point was not a spitting match between Bud and I. The point is that if you read back through his answers, you will see that if you understand these concepts you can better choose your products and processes. You'll also answer many of your "Why did ...." questions. No chemistry degree required....</HTML>
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Re: Chemistry anyone? Update , uncanny ! October 16, 2003 01:04PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 98 |
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Re: Chemistry anyone? Update , uncanny ! October 16, 2003 09:45PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
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Re: Chemistry anyone? Update , uncanny ! October 16, 2003 10:27PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Robert & Stan:
Thanks for your concern. Do not take anything anyone says contrary to my opinions personally. That is what these forums are all about, people expressing their opinions. If I think someone is wrong I will say so and for what reason, I hope never to be personal, however, in the disagreement.
That is a problem to often people take a disagreement with what they say personally when it is not at all intended that way.
Appreciate all your input and opinions, certainly makes one think and research.
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
Thanks for your concern. Do not take anything anyone says contrary to my opinions personally. That is what these forums are all about, people expressing their opinions. If I think someone is wrong I will say so and for what reason, I hope never to be personal, however, in the disagreement.
That is a problem to often people take a disagreement with what they say personally when it is not at all intended that way.
Appreciate all your input and opinions, certainly makes one think and research.
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: Chemistry anyone? Update , uncanny ! October 17, 2003 03:43AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
<HTML>I just wanted to share my thoughts. After all, it is what was asked. While I was lurking, I read through many posts dating back a few months. There were many (really, many) posts in a thread where two or more were in conflict. Usually a thread that had lost its subject matter due to a digression over a dissagreement.
As I see it, some have even left this forum. Maybe lurking but not sharing a wealth of possible info here anymore.
Which, as a result, leaves a smaller number of pools to pull from. In humanity when that happens, the product becomes weaker, and almost useless. My caustic seeming reply is intended to generate thoughtfullness in an attempt to maintain a balance. Without which, vision becomes distorted.
For example, take a moment and read this thread from its begining until this last (and possibly others to follow) post. In my original post I wanted to show how I had been exposed to a better way by reading things writen by many here. This new way made such an impact on my results that it dawned on me to share. Turns out it was a little more in depth to discuss here. It is not my forum but it is my thread and at the risk of offending anyone, I am dissapointed with the digression. Nothing more, nothing less. I will survive. i will also keep wishing the world has more humor and less spittle. I will also buy one of Buds manuals and learn what i can about chemistry with respect to detailing.</HTML>
As I see it, some have even left this forum. Maybe lurking but not sharing a wealth of possible info here anymore.
Which, as a result, leaves a smaller number of pools to pull from. In humanity when that happens, the product becomes weaker, and almost useless. My caustic seeming reply is intended to generate thoughtfullness in an attempt to maintain a balance. Without which, vision becomes distorted.
For example, take a moment and read this thread from its begining until this last (and possibly others to follow) post. In my original post I wanted to show how I had been exposed to a better way by reading things writen by many here. This new way made such an impact on my results that it dawned on me to share. Turns out it was a little more in depth to discuss here. It is not my forum but it is my thread and at the risk of offending anyone, I am dissapointed with the digression. Nothing more, nothing less. I will survive. i will also keep wishing the world has more humor and less spittle. I will also buy one of Buds manuals and learn what i can about chemistry with respect to detailing.</HTML>
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