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amino functional silicones
Posted by ben smith
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amino functional silicones October 14, 2003 04:40AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 54 |
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Re: amino functional silicones October 14, 2003 05:45AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Ben:
Type in www.google.com and when the box comes up type in "amino functional silicones" you will a complete explanation that should satisfy your craving for knowledge.
You can also type in "caustic" or "sodium hydroxide" and you will learn why you do not use engine degreaser, at any dilution on carpets; vinyl or leather.
You can type in "silicone emulsions" and learn about the major ingredient in water based dressings.
Or type in "solvent silicones" and learn about the major ingredient in solvent based dressings.
The internet is full of information.
By the way you are thinking of "silica" not silicone when you say silicone is a sand? Silica is what is used in cutting compounds in various grit sizes to provide the abrasive to cut away oxidation; scratches, etc.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Type in www.google.com and when the box comes up type in "amino functional silicones" you will a complete explanation that should satisfy your craving for knowledge.
You can also type in "caustic" or "sodium hydroxide" and you will learn why you do not use engine degreaser, at any dilution on carpets; vinyl or leather.
You can type in "silicone emulsions" and learn about the major ingredient in water based dressings.
Or type in "solvent silicones" and learn about the major ingredient in solvent based dressings.
The internet is full of information.
By the way you are thinking of "silica" not silicone when you say silicone is a sand? Silica is what is used in cutting compounds in various grit sizes to provide the abrasive to cut away oxidation; scratches, etc.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: amino functional silicones October 14, 2003 05:45AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Ben:
Type in www.google.com and when the box comes up type in "amino functional silicones" you will a complete explanation that should satisfy your craving for knowledge.
You can also type in "caustic" or "sodium hydroxide" and you will learn why you do not use engine degreaser, at any dilution on carpets; vinyl or leather.
You can type in "silicone emulsions" and learn about the major ingredient in water based dressings.
Or type in "solvent silicones" and learn about the major ingredient in solvent based dressings.
The internet is full of information.
By the way you are thinking of "silica" not silicone when you say silicone is a sand? Silica is what is used in cutting compounds in various grit sizes to provide the abrasive to cut away oxidation; scratches, etc.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Type in www.google.com and when the box comes up type in "amino functional silicones" you will a complete explanation that should satisfy your craving for knowledge.
You can also type in "caustic" or "sodium hydroxide" and you will learn why you do not use engine degreaser, at any dilution on carpets; vinyl or leather.
You can type in "silicone emulsions" and learn about the major ingredient in water based dressings.
Or type in "solvent silicones" and learn about the major ingredient in solvent based dressings.
The internet is full of information.
By the way you are thinking of "silica" not silicone when you say silicone is a sand? Silica is what is used in cutting compounds in various grit sizes to provide the abrasive to cut away oxidation; scratches, etc.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: amino functional silicones October 14, 2003 05:45AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Ben:
Type in www.google.com and when the box comes up type in "amino functional silicones" you will a complete explanation that should satisfy your craving for knowledge.
You can also type in "caustic" or "sodium hydroxide" and you will learn why you do not use engine degreaser, at any dilution on carpets; vinyl or leather.
You can type in "silicone emulsions" and learn about the major ingredient in water based dressings.
Or type in "solvent silicones" and learn about the major ingredient in solvent based dressings.
The internet is full of information.
By the way you are thinking of "silica" not silicone when you say silicone is a sand? Silica is what is used in cutting compounds in various grit sizes to provide the abrasive to cut away oxidation; scratches, etc.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Type in www.google.com and when the box comes up type in "amino functional silicones" you will a complete explanation that should satisfy your craving for knowledge.
You can also type in "caustic" or "sodium hydroxide" and you will learn why you do not use engine degreaser, at any dilution on carpets; vinyl or leather.
You can type in "silicone emulsions" and learn about the major ingredient in water based dressings.
Or type in "solvent silicones" and learn about the major ingredient in solvent based dressings.
The internet is full of information.
By the way you are thinking of "silica" not silicone when you say silicone is a sand? Silica is what is used in cutting compounds in various grit sizes to provide the abrasive to cut away oxidation; scratches, etc.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: amino functional silicones October 15, 2003 03:13AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>Silicone, or siloxane, is a chain molecule of alternating Silicon and Oxygen atoms.
Si-O-Si-O-Si-O
You then have the option of binding different chemical groups to the Silicon which changes the properties of the chemical. You can make it a highly lubricating fluid, a sticky viscous gel, etc. etc. For amino functional you bind amino groups to the siloxane backbone. This is done because amino groups have have a positive charge at neutral pH. This charge interacts with charged molecules on clear or paint and thus you have stronger bonding. This also works for bonding to other products. Many prep products like in Zaino and UPP capitalize on this.
Okay, I've said enough....</HTML>
Si-O-Si-O-Si-O
You then have the option of binding different chemical groups to the Silicon which changes the properties of the chemical. You can make it a highly lubricating fluid, a sticky viscous gel, etc. etc. For amino functional you bind amino groups to the siloxane backbone. This is done because amino groups have have a positive charge at neutral pH. This charge interacts with charged molecules on clear or paint and thus you have stronger bonding. This also works for bonding to other products. Many prep products like in Zaino and UPP capitalize on this.
Okay, I've said enough....</HTML>
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Re: amino functional silicones October 15, 2003 03:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
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Re: amino functional silicones October 15, 2003 04:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Phil:
Typically a paint sealant product should have amino functional silicones in them.
Typically a carnuaba or microcrystalline wax would not. Although some waxes do contain amino functional silicones. Then the question is are they a wax or a paint sealant.
I don't know of any other products that typically contain amino functional silicones.
Standard silicone fluids in most waxes do not provide the durability of amino functional silicones.
Robert, can you explain that one for him???
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Typically a paint sealant product should have amino functional silicones in them.
Typically a carnuaba or microcrystalline wax would not. Although some waxes do contain amino functional silicones. Then the question is are they a wax or a paint sealant.
I don't know of any other products that typically contain amino functional silicones.
Standard silicone fluids in most waxes do not provide the durability of amino functional silicones.
Robert, can you explain that one for him???
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: amino functional silicones October 15, 2003 07:43PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>The functional groups in standard silicones have different type of chemical interaction with the paint or clear that is of lower strength. These are called Van DerWaals forces. The same forces that causes nonpolar molecules to clump together (i.e. wax, vasoline, etc.). While this is better than nothing it is weaker than charge-charge interaction produced by aminofunctional residues.
How did I do, was that understandable?</HTML>
How did I do, was that understandable?</HTML>
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Re: amino functional silicones October 15, 2003 07:59PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: amino functional silicones October 15, 2003 08:31PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 98 |
<HTML>SO BUD YOUR PAINT SEALANT HAS AMINO FUNCTIONAL SILICONES RIGHT? SO IT LASTS LONGER THAN CARNUBA. RIGHT?
SO WHY DO SOME DETAILERS APPLY TOP COAT OF CARNUBA WAX? AS I READ ON HERE AWHILE AGO. SO LETS SAY YOU POLISHED FIRST WITH SOME TYPE OF POLISH. LETS SAY YOURS. DO YOU HAVE TO REMOVE THE POLISH WITH A CHEMICAL BEFORE YOU PUT ON THE SEALANT? LETS SAY WITH RUBBING ALCHOHOL AND WATER. STAN</HTML>
SO WHY DO SOME DETAILERS APPLY TOP COAT OF CARNUBA WAX? AS I READ ON HERE AWHILE AGO. SO LETS SAY YOU POLISHED FIRST WITH SOME TYPE OF POLISH. LETS SAY YOURS. DO YOU HAVE TO REMOVE THE POLISH WITH A CHEMICAL BEFORE YOU PUT ON THE SEALANT? LETS SAY WITH RUBBING ALCHOHOL AND WATER. STAN</HTML>
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Re: amino functional silicones October 15, 2003 11:03PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Stan:
All paint sealants should have amino functional silicones in them. That is what makes them different than waxes. Some sealants have waxes in them, but not all of them have waxes.
Why do detailers put a coat of wax over a sealant? Who knows! It is certainly not necessary. In fact, you must allow the silicones in the sealant to cure before getting wet, or putting anything on top of the application.
I cannot hurt to put on another coat of wax, it just makes the sealant last longer. Would I do it? NO!!!
No, you do not have to remove anything after using the SWIRL AWAY/POLISH.
Why do you think you would have to do this?
Years ago when you buffed laquer with heavy compound it was necessary to wash off the heavy grit compound before polishing to insure the residue did not scratch the finish. But you do not need to do that today with the light and micro fine compounds.
Hope that helps.
bud a</HTML>
buda
All paint sealants should have amino functional silicones in them. That is what makes them different than waxes. Some sealants have waxes in them, but not all of them have waxes.
Why do detailers put a coat of wax over a sealant? Who knows! It is certainly not necessary. In fact, you must allow the silicones in the sealant to cure before getting wet, or putting anything on top of the application.
I cannot hurt to put on another coat of wax, it just makes the sealant last longer. Would I do it? NO!!!
No, you do not have to remove anything after using the SWIRL AWAY/POLISH.
Why do you think you would have to do this?
Years ago when you buffed laquer with heavy compound it was necessary to wash off the heavy grit compound before polishing to insure the residue did not scratch the finish. But you do not need to do that today with the light and micro fine compounds.
Hope that helps.
bud a</HTML>
buda
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Re: amino functional silicones October 16, 2003 12:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 894 |
<HTML>Wow!! This is amazing stuff!! Last week I wrote a letter to one of my great customers regarding this issue amino functional silicones vs. the old school carnuaba. Get this, I maintain his H2 weekly, he had taken the car to the car wash to get waxed TWICE while he is paying me good money to take care of this stuff, no wonder I thought it needed no wax, the car washes wax just cleaned up the heavy layer of Zaino I put on months before. Anyway, back on the subject, he thought that the finish should feel slippery like the old days on single staged paint with carnuaba wax, he had no idea that paint systems have advanced to base coat clear coat, and along with that, the technology of paint sealants and their chemical bond to the clear coat!! So I had to explain it to him in scientific terms, but nothing close to the excellent and complex explanation that Robert provided!! Great job!!!
The customer understood fully that paint sealants feel different on clear coats because of their chemical bond as opposed to a carnuaba wax just sitting on the finish in a feeble attempt to protect the paint.
These pesky chemicals are freeking fascinating!!!</HTML>
The customer understood fully that paint sealants feel different on clear coats because of their chemical bond as opposed to a carnuaba wax just sitting on the finish in a feeble attempt to protect the paint.
These pesky chemicals are freeking fascinating!!!</HTML>
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Re: amino functional silicones October 16, 2003 02:32AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 54 |
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Re: amino functional silicones October 16, 2003 03:15AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
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Re: amino functional silicones October 16, 2003 04:33AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
<HTML>Jim, THAT was funny.
I wonder if carbrite offers a chemistry for detailers class?
Hey Bud, here is a chance for a plug...how much of this stuff is in the material you sell? I have asked before, and you answered, but how about a indea of the chemistry your materials cover (video, manual? I woulkd like a desk revernece manual JUST for detailing. I do not want to in depth pHd ten pound book...just a reference for dummys/cliff notes kinda deal.</HTML>
I wonder if carbrite offers a chemistry for detailers class?
Hey Bud, here is a chance for a plug...how much of this stuff is in the material you sell? I have asked before, and you answered, but how about a indea of the chemistry your materials cover (video, manual? I woulkd like a desk revernece manual JUST for detailing. I do not want to in depth pHd ten pound book...just a reference for dummys/cliff notes kinda deal.</HTML>
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Re: amino functional silicones October 16, 2003 05:16AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>Wow! So many questions. I'll post some stuff now, and then answer some later since I'm in the middle of something.
Some sealants are slick! Again it depends on your choice of functional groups. UPP is very slick. Zaino is fairly slick. These formulas are patented so even though they are essentially similar, having aminofunctional groups (herein: AFG) and a siloxane backbone, they must differ in other areas such as functional groups attached. If someone were to copy Zaino, UPP, or Diamond Plus exactly... well ask Bud what happens!
Many people DO use carnauba waxes on top. Why? Sealants are very clear and give the finish a glassy or plastic look. Some love it, some feel it looks too sterile. These folks love that soft warm wet carnauba look so they apply their favorite wax. The wax also changes the beading properties of water on the surface. Waxes tend to bead and sealants tend to sheet water off. TEND is the key word. I'll get into this later but again preference factors in again.
Ben I'll address your questions a little later... sorry no time now.</HTML>
Some sealants are slick! Again it depends on your choice of functional groups. UPP is very slick. Zaino is fairly slick. These formulas are patented so even though they are essentially similar, having aminofunctional groups (herein: AFG) and a siloxane backbone, they must differ in other areas such as functional groups attached. If someone were to copy Zaino, UPP, or Diamond Plus exactly... well ask Bud what happens!
Many people DO use carnauba waxes on top. Why? Sealants are very clear and give the finish a glassy or plastic look. Some love it, some feel it looks too sterile. These folks love that soft warm wet carnauba look so they apply their favorite wax. The wax also changes the beading properties of water on the surface. Waxes tend to bead and sealants tend to sheet water off. TEND is the key word. I'll get into this later but again preference factors in again.
Ben I'll address your questions a little later... sorry no time now.</HTML>
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Re: amino functional silicones October 16, 2003 12:53PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 98 |
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Re: amino functional silicones October 16, 2003 09:48PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>I agree with sheeting as desirable over beading but it's personal preference. Sheeting dries better, and doesn't leave many water spots but to some people beading just looks neat or something. I know it to be the general public's measure of protection, but as we know many people are uninformed on this issue.</HTML>
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