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Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing
Posted by Bud Abraham
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Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 02:40AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>You see what is happening here? The conversations are centering around the "things" of the detailing business. These types of conversations are not going to make anyone any more money.
That is the problem with most detailers as Michael Gerber says in his book The E Myth, they are all technicians and technicians do not understand the business of business. They focus too much on the technical aspects of a business when that is not the important factor.
As he states, Technicians think that if you know how to do the technical work of a business you can operate a business that does technical work.
That is not true and it is fatal. That is why so many businesses go broke. Because when faced with business challenges the technician within tries to solve them with technical solutions when they call for business solutions.
So what are we doing here debating the pros and cons of a product, waterless wash, that nobody even uses in the business. Debating who has the best one, if there is even a "best" one for detailing.
Come on detailers what are your business problems? Marketing; Advertising; Operational Costs; Employee selection; training and motivation; insurance; workers comp insurance; pricing and sellling detailing to the customer. Customer service; public relations. etc.
This is what we should be talking about here. A way to grow the business, not who has the best chemicals, which are in reality a commodity.
Just a few well intentioned thoughts
Bud A</HTML>
buda
That is the problem with most detailers as Michael Gerber says in his book The E Myth, they are all technicians and technicians do not understand the business of business. They focus too much on the technical aspects of a business when that is not the important factor.
As he states, Technicians think that if you know how to do the technical work of a business you can operate a business that does technical work.
That is not true and it is fatal. That is why so many businesses go broke. Because when faced with business challenges the technician within tries to solve them with technical solutions when they call for business solutions.
So what are we doing here debating the pros and cons of a product, waterless wash, that nobody even uses in the business. Debating who has the best one, if there is even a "best" one for detailing.
Come on detailers what are your business problems? Marketing; Advertising; Operational Costs; Employee selection; training and motivation; insurance; workers comp insurance; pricing and sellling detailing to the customer. Customer service; public relations. etc.
This is what we should be talking about here. A way to grow the business, not who has the best chemicals, which are in reality a commodity.
Just a few well intentioned thoughts
Bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 02:53AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 9 |
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 03:03AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Dwayne:
Do you call giving an opinion "bashing products?" I simply gave my opinion about waterless wash; the prices that Poor Boys were charging, which are high compared to other products on the market.
As for problems that detailers face, let them ask a specific question. But remember that any answer I might give is just opinion. If you don't agree remember it is not bashing.
Do you own a detail business? What are your problems?
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
Do you call giving an opinion "bashing products?" I simply gave my opinion about waterless wash; the prices that Poor Boys were charging, which are high compared to other products on the market.
As for problems that detailers face, let them ask a specific question. But remember that any answer I might give is just opinion. If you don't agree remember it is not bashing.
Do you own a detail business? What are your problems?
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 03:11AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 56 |
<HTML>I like what you're saying, Bud. Let's face it...none of us details a vehicle the same way. We all find our own way of acheiving the same result...a nice, clean & shiny car that the customer will go ga-ga over, tell their friends and then come back to you every few weeks/months for follow up care.
I don't think getting biz is the crux of the matter. Keeping it and developing repeat customers is key to a successful business.
As for the concerns I'm facing when I open my shop next month, I am worried about getting too much biz, too fast. I'll be operating in a high end service center that will do all types of service work on Benz,BMW, Audi, VW, Ferrari. Every car that comes in for service will be sent over to me for a quick wash. At that time, I'll review for detail and paint services and either contact the customer by phone or talk to him when he comes in to pick up his car. To start, I'll have one bay rent free for providing the wash service. The problems I see right off the bat are: 1) If I'm working on a car in the bay, how will I have time to wash the cars that need it? 2) If I'm painting, say, a bumper scuff, how will I keep from fuming out all the techs working in the service garage? 3) If I can charge, say $200 for doing these high-end cars, how will I keep my loyal customers with their Fords & Chevys that I do for $150-$175 on a mobile basis? 4) How will I know when it's time to hire someone?
I've worked things out with a local wholesale supplier who will put me on their weekly route when I get started, so I got that part worked out. My partner who will run the service shop is already lining up customers to come in for detail services and touch-up work, so I don't think getting customers will be the problem. The way I see it, space, time management and hiring good help are going to be critical. And I haven't even mentioned how I'm going to keep my mobile operation going once the weather gets nice next spring. Right now my plan is to concentrate on growing the shop biz as much as possible this winter and possibly hiring 1 or 2 guys (I've already got some people in mind) that are experienced and know what they're doing so I can work on the mobile biz when the weather warms up.
My goals are to eventaully have a fixed location with 3, 4 or more bays that will run year round and a mobile crew of 2 trucks that will run from April-November. I'm really looking ahead at the big picture, so I'm looking at having a fairly large-scale operation within 1-2 years where I'll have people working for me and I can run the biz and just do the jobs that I choose to do on a limited basis.
Any suggestions?</HTML>
I don't think getting biz is the crux of the matter. Keeping it and developing repeat customers is key to a successful business.
As for the concerns I'm facing when I open my shop next month, I am worried about getting too much biz, too fast. I'll be operating in a high end service center that will do all types of service work on Benz,BMW, Audi, VW, Ferrari. Every car that comes in for service will be sent over to me for a quick wash. At that time, I'll review for detail and paint services and either contact the customer by phone or talk to him when he comes in to pick up his car. To start, I'll have one bay rent free for providing the wash service. The problems I see right off the bat are: 1) If I'm working on a car in the bay, how will I have time to wash the cars that need it? 2) If I'm painting, say, a bumper scuff, how will I keep from fuming out all the techs working in the service garage? 3) If I can charge, say $200 for doing these high-end cars, how will I keep my loyal customers with their Fords & Chevys that I do for $150-$175 on a mobile basis? 4) How will I know when it's time to hire someone?
I've worked things out with a local wholesale supplier who will put me on their weekly route when I get started, so I got that part worked out. My partner who will run the service shop is already lining up customers to come in for detail services and touch-up work, so I don't think getting customers will be the problem. The way I see it, space, time management and hiring good help are going to be critical. And I haven't even mentioned how I'm going to keep my mobile operation going once the weather gets nice next spring. Right now my plan is to concentrate on growing the shop biz as much as possible this winter and possibly hiring 1 or 2 guys (I've already got some people in mind) that are experienced and know what they're doing so I can work on the mobile biz when the weather warms up.
My goals are to eventaully have a fixed location with 3, 4 or more bays that will run year round and a mobile crew of 2 trucks that will run from April-November. I'm really looking ahead at the big picture, so I'm looking at having a fairly large-scale operation within 1-2 years where I'll have people working for me and I can run the biz and just do the jobs that I choose to do on a limited basis.
Any suggestions?</HTML>
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 03:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 9 |
<HTML>Bud, yes I am calling you out as a basher of other companies and products that are not your own.
I think it lacks class. I think if you have cheap, second rate and bottom of the barrel ingredients in your products then you can afford to sell them cheap. Keep in mind that some chemical companies choose to buy the best possible ingredients that go into their formulas and the price with reflect the cost plus profit.
Hey, you started the thread, do you have solutions to the things that you mentioned?
These are the things that you mentioned:
" Marketing; Advertising; Operational Costs; Employee selection; training and motivation; insurance; workers comp insurance; pricing and sellling detailing to the customer. Customer service; public relations. etc."
So with so much to work with, what do you have to offer?
I'm a bit out of the loop since I do not own my own detailing business anymore.
I'm hoping to learn a bit here.</HTML>
I think it lacks class. I think if you have cheap, second rate and bottom of the barrel ingredients in your products then you can afford to sell them cheap. Keep in mind that some chemical companies choose to buy the best possible ingredients that go into their formulas and the price with reflect the cost plus profit.
Hey, you started the thread, do you have solutions to the things that you mentioned?
These are the things that you mentioned:
" Marketing; Advertising; Operational Costs; Employee selection; training and motivation; insurance; workers comp insurance; pricing and sellling detailing to the customer. Customer service; public relations. etc."
So with so much to work with, what do you have to offer?
I'm a bit out of the loop since I do not own my own detailing business anymore.
I'm hoping to learn a bit here.</HTML>
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 03:21AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
<HTML>Rod, before you take care of anything else you need to resolve this problem first ..
2) If I'm painting, say, a bumper scuff, how will I keep from fuming out all the techs working in the service garage?
OSHA have very strict regulations that cover this , and not complying with them is a serious offence in their book. They have EPA regulations that must be complied with . We were on the receiving end of an OSHA visit this year and were fined a considerable amount of money . I'd hate to see you get all set up, with all your investment , and get fined by OSHA for not complying with the regulations .
Visit < a href="www.osha.gov">OSHA</a> for more information.
Jim.</HTML>
2) If I'm painting, say, a bumper scuff, how will I keep from fuming out all the techs working in the service garage?
OSHA have very strict regulations that cover this , and not complying with them is a serious offence in their book. They have EPA regulations that must be complied with . We were on the receiving end of an OSHA visit this year and were fined a considerable amount of money . I'd hate to see you get all set up, with all your investment , and get fined by OSHA for not complying with the regulations .
Visit < a href="www.osha.gov">OSHA</a> for more information.
Jim.</HTML>
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 03:44AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 45 |
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 04:05AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 9 |
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 04:12AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Thats why you have to have the OSHA inspectors in your pocket. KIDDING!
Rod:
I'm in the same boat you are. I'm at that plateau of what to do next. Work is gradually growing (mostly by word of mouth and website) so in the next few months I'll be hiring employees. You sound like my business, working in high end dealerships, my private garage and being mobile. Next month I am sponsoring a Little League baseball team in my community for next year's baseball season. It's only $300/year.
I'm quoting Bud when I say this: hire the trainable instead of the experienced. That's what I'll be doing.
The guy who comes in the high end dealership to do touch up painting does it right there in the garage with both doors up. Never bothered anyone.
Dwayne:
This is a public forum where us PROFESSIONAL detailers state our opinions of products we use, to help other PROFESSIONAL detailers avoid our mistakes and to use the right products. We are not bashing...just telling the truth about some of these so called "miracle products" which are junk and not for professional use.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
Rod:
I'm in the same boat you are. I'm at that plateau of what to do next. Work is gradually growing (mostly by word of mouth and website) so in the next few months I'll be hiring employees. You sound like my business, working in high end dealerships, my private garage and being mobile. Next month I am sponsoring a Little League baseball team in my community for next year's baseball season. It's only $300/year.
I'm quoting Bud when I say this: hire the trainable instead of the experienced. That's what I'll be doing.
The guy who comes in the high end dealership to do touch up painting does it right there in the garage with both doors up. Never bothered anyone.
Dwayne:
This is a public forum where us PROFESSIONAL detailers state our opinions of products we use, to help other PROFESSIONAL detailers avoid our mistakes and to use the right products. We are not bashing...just telling the truth about some of these so called "miracle products" which are junk and not for professional use.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 04:30AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 45 |
<HTML>Hey you from detailsh*tty:
Why are you here bashing, flaming, etc.
Inferior, high priced, low quality products are not what professionals use.
Don't go away mad, just go away if you have nothing to contribute except for nonsense.
As far as your "strange" posts go, do you believe the posts are going to convince people here to go out and get $$15 @ 16oz stuff when the same thing can be purchased for $23 a gallon?
Stop the insanity..., you are not making sense. Stop being "so obvious", LOL!!
You are only showing your "true colors", which, well- Thank you
Accusations, high pricing, argumentitive, flaming, bashing, etc, etc,.</HTML>
The "BEST of The BEST"
Why are you here bashing, flaming, etc.
Inferior, high priced, low quality products are not what professionals use.
Don't go away mad, just go away if you have nothing to contribute except for nonsense.
As far as your "strange" posts go, do you believe the posts are going to convince people here to go out and get $$15 @ 16oz stuff when the same thing can be purchased for $23 a gallon?
Stop the insanity..., you are not making sense. Stop being "so obvious", LOL!!
You are only showing your "true colors", which, well- Thank you
Accusations, high pricing, argumentitive, flaming, bashing, etc, etc,.</HTML>
The "BEST of The BEST"
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 05:40AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 56 |
<HTML>Amen, Noah...Amen!!!
Others have said it before and I'll say it again, Bud has been a great help to most of us here. He's kind enough to freely share his vast wealth of knowledge with us, make us think and try to encourage us to be nothing less than professional which makes for good business which translates into better reputations and higher profits for us!! Who can fault that?
Jim...thanks for the tip. I've already checked with the local fire marshall & he said that they follow the federal regulations for commercial spraying outside a spray booth. UNder that regulation, I'm allowed to spray up to 9 s.f./repair. None of the jobs that I do even approach that size. I use tchniques that allow me to blend the paint and clearcoat into the surrounding area. What makes me uncomfortable is that when I spray, I always wear a respirator to protect myself. When I'm on a dealer lot or a customer's driveway, it's no problem, but if I'm in a shop and none of the other guys are protected, I just don't feel right about that. I think what I'll probably do is just suspend what I consider large spraying jobs during the winter months and limit my painting to airbrush touch-ups & scratch repairs. I guess I could always do spray work on the weekends when no one else is in the shop, but I really try to keep my weekends free for family time and r&r. In the summer, it won't be a problem because when I'm not mobile, I can set up my trailer in the parking lot, set up my overhead canopy and spray away.
Of course, if this all works out like I'm planning, I'll eventually have my own space with several bays and be able to designate one for painting only and put plastic protective curtains around it.
Brian...I think I'll follow yours and Bud's suggestion of hiring the trainable. I definitely see the advantages to it!! Like not having to untrain them first and hope they do things the way you expect them to. It's obvious that you have better quality control if everyone's on the same page, using the same methodology.</HTML>
Others have said it before and I'll say it again, Bud has been a great help to most of us here. He's kind enough to freely share his vast wealth of knowledge with us, make us think and try to encourage us to be nothing less than professional which makes for good business which translates into better reputations and higher profits for us!! Who can fault that?
Jim...thanks for the tip. I've already checked with the local fire marshall & he said that they follow the federal regulations for commercial spraying outside a spray booth. UNder that regulation, I'm allowed to spray up to 9 s.f./repair. None of the jobs that I do even approach that size. I use tchniques that allow me to blend the paint and clearcoat into the surrounding area. What makes me uncomfortable is that when I spray, I always wear a respirator to protect myself. When I'm on a dealer lot or a customer's driveway, it's no problem, but if I'm in a shop and none of the other guys are protected, I just don't feel right about that. I think what I'll probably do is just suspend what I consider large spraying jobs during the winter months and limit my painting to airbrush touch-ups & scratch repairs. I guess I could always do spray work on the weekends when no one else is in the shop, but I really try to keep my weekends free for family time and r&r. In the summer, it won't be a problem because when I'm not mobile, I can set up my trailer in the parking lot, set up my overhead canopy and spray away.
Of course, if this all works out like I'm planning, I'll eventually have my own space with several bays and be able to designate one for painting only and put plastic protective curtains around it.
Brian...I think I'll follow yours and Bud's suggestion of hiring the trainable. I definitely see the advantages to it!! Like not having to untrain them first and hope they do things the way you expect them to. It's obvious that you have better quality control if everyone's on the same page, using the same methodology.</HTML>
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 10:02AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 237 |
<HTML>I can tell you that <b>there is a major problem</b> with detailing and painting within the same area...
...and it has something to do with positivly charged silicons which are used in some detailing products. They just don't mix with paint.
Start looking at your products now... anything which you spray on, either in a trigger spray or comes in an airosol tin, either needs to be devoid of silicons... or have negative charged silicons. I can tell you, if we use a spray on tyre-sheen at one end of the factory, it will mess up the paintwork in the smart-repair bay 60yrds away...
We have just about done this... but problems still occur. This week we had a car in which was to have a lot of paintwork and was to be detailed. Unfortunatly, The detailer didn't wait for the paintwork to be done and got on and put a long life wax on it.
Other than that, I have to agree that hireing trainable staff is prefered to hireing experienced staff. Apart from doing things their own way, which may not be your way, they tend to have previously self employed at some point, and tend to no make good employees, and don't like answering to people in a static detailing enviroment. They are often used to being out on the road doing their own thing...
We do hire people who have worked for the dealerships... but that isn't really experienced is it? Besides, they are used to being treated like skivies, so coming to us is a definite step up.</HTML>
...and it has something to do with positivly charged silicons which are used in some detailing products. They just don't mix with paint.
Start looking at your products now... anything which you spray on, either in a trigger spray or comes in an airosol tin, either needs to be devoid of silicons... or have negative charged silicons. I can tell you, if we use a spray on tyre-sheen at one end of the factory, it will mess up the paintwork in the smart-repair bay 60yrds away...
We have just about done this... but problems still occur. This week we had a car in which was to have a lot of paintwork and was to be detailed. Unfortunatly, The detailer didn't wait for the paintwork to be done and got on and put a long life wax on it.
Other than that, I have to agree that hireing trainable staff is prefered to hireing experienced staff. Apart from doing things their own way, which may not be your way, they tend to have previously self employed at some point, and tend to no make good employees, and don't like answering to people in a static detailing enviroment. They are often used to being out on the road doing their own thing...
We do hire people who have worked for the dealerships... but that isn't really experienced is it? Besides, they are used to being treated like skivies, so coming to us is a definite step up.</HTML>
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 10:26AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>It appears you have grand ideas and grand plans, but only one set of hands. Personally, I think you will not be able to detail cars; wash service repair cars; repair bumper scuffs; do sales work and run a mobile business all by yourself.
First and foremost you have to decide which of these things you want to do, because you can't do them all.
Or, you have to hire some people. When, right now.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
First and foremost you have to decide which of these things you want to do, because you can't do them all.
Or, you have to hire some people. When, right now.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 10:34AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>You are entitled to your opinion, as I am. However, you have no idea how my products are formulated so until you check out the chemistry of our company's products you really can't say they are "cheap."
Further, our products are priced competitively with the other major detail chemical companies, except that we DO NOT SELL through distributors and offer that margin to the customer.
The Zaino; Klasse; Poor Boys, etc. are catering, it appears, to the car enthusiast who is willing to pay 3 or 4 times the worth of a chemical.
As for solutions to operating a detail business YES I have solutions and they are available in manuals; videos and seminars that our company offers.
You can get them for free by reading the articles that I and 4 of my staff write for the trade magazines; or reading them on Auto Car Forum or Mobile Works forum. Or, you can go to www.detailplus.com and click on "Ask the Experts" and get a FREE answer.
It is not my purchase here to dominate the forum and be an on-line consultant. Just posing the question so that detailers will think about the "Business of Detailing" not just chemicals and buffing pads.
You are most welcome to ask me any question on Ask the Experts.
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
Further, our products are priced competitively with the other major detail chemical companies, except that we DO NOT SELL through distributors and offer that margin to the customer.
The Zaino; Klasse; Poor Boys, etc. are catering, it appears, to the car enthusiast who is willing to pay 3 or 4 times the worth of a chemical.
As for solutions to operating a detail business YES I have solutions and they are available in manuals; videos and seminars that our company offers.
You can get them for free by reading the articles that I and 4 of my staff write for the trade magazines; or reading them on Auto Car Forum or Mobile Works forum. Or, you can go to www.detailplus.com and click on "Ask the Experts" and get a FREE answer.
It is not my purchase here to dominate the forum and be an on-line consultant. Just posing the question so that detailers will think about the "Business of Detailing" not just chemicals and buffing pads.
You are most welcome to ask me any question on Ask the Experts.
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 10:43AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 9 |
<HTML>Wayne, I only stopped by because of 1 reason:
1. Simply to respond to your false claims that you know what goes on behind the scenes at DC which of course, you are clueless. No trolls at DC, that is why you have a new alias every week.
Wayne, Windsor, Debbie, Noah Email...... who are you going to be next week?
Come on back to Detail City so I can ban you again.
Thanks</HTML>
1. Simply to respond to your false claims that you know what goes on behind the scenes at DC which of course, you are clueless. No trolls at DC, that is why you have a new alias every week.
Wayne, Windsor, Debbie, Noah Email...... who are you going to be next week?
Come on back to Detail City so I can ban you again.
Thanks</HTML>
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 10:57AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>With all due respect, that seems to be your modus operendi, to ban anyone from your site that does not say what you like or agree with.
I believe you banned me sometime ago, for what I do not know.
This is the land of "Freedom of Speech" and it was my thought that internet forums were to be a vehicle for people to present their ideas.
This forum is one such vehicle. I do not know of one person who has been banned by the webmaster here. It seems the participants usually "ban" the person who is out of line.
Regards
BA</HTML>
buda
I believe you banned me sometime ago, for what I do not know.
This is the land of "Freedom of Speech" and it was my thought that internet forums were to be a vehicle for people to present their ideas.
This forum is one such vehicle. I do not know of one person who has been banned by the webmaster here. It seems the participants usually "ban" the person who is out of line.
Regards
BA</HTML>
buda
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 04:46PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 74 |
<HTML>Bud, thanks for keeping us on track. I think you a right about detailers needing to focus more attention on running a business. The technical side of detaling is important, but the way we run our business can make or break us just as much as the quality of our services. I think that is why many detailers remain self-employed detail technicians rather than becoming owners and managers of successful detailing businesses.
Some people may be happy to stay a one-man operation, but I realize that to achieve the lifestyle I desire, I must expand. I must become an effective manager and businessman.
However, I think if I can learn how to make running the business my first priority, my technical knowledge can be a great asset to my business. I don't think I will ever have to hand my apron up completely. Even if were to become the CEO of a national chain of detail shops, I would still pick up a buffer every once in a while and show the kiddies how a real detailer does it!</HTML>
Some people may be happy to stay a one-man operation, but I realize that to achieve the lifestyle I desire, I must expand. I must become an effective manager and businessman.
However, I think if I can learn how to make running the business my first priority, my technical knowledge can be a great asset to my business. I don't think I will ever have to hand my apron up completely. Even if were to become the CEO of a national chain of detail shops, I would still pick up a buffer every once in a while and show the kiddies how a real detailer does it!</HTML>
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 17, 2003 05:53PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Gary:
Operating a business involves managing several factors: people (customers and employees); money and things (equipment/chemicals/supplies).
As discussed, the most important is the management of customers and employees.
You seem to acknowledge and realize that. This applies to a one man company as well as a company that has a lot of employees.
What a one man company must do is simply hire people to handle the people management and the money management.
Isn't that what an artist or entertainer does? Hires people to handle his business activities.
As for setting down the buffer, that is up to you. But let us look at the collision repair industry. Basically this has been a technician's business from it's inception. But all one has to do today is take a serious look at that industry to realize what has happened.
In 1975 there were 128,000 body shops in the USA. Today there are less than 55,000 and they predict this will soon be under 50,000. A 58% decline in shops yet the industry has quadrupled in dollar volume.
Why is that? More efficient, better managed and operated collision repair centers.
Today, if you go into a body shop you find women owners; owners who were bankers; teachers; coroporate executives, who knew nothing about the collision repair industry other than it is a several million dollar a year business for them. Most have never picked up a mallet or a spray gun.
A good friend of mine's son, a very successful insurance executive, left the industry with his money and bought a landscaping business. He is running the landscaping business, but I can guarantee you he is not on the job planting trees or cutting grass.
To make money in any business and not be a slave to the business you need to work smart and not hard. America has become an information economy, no longer an industrial economy. In today's American economy you make money using your head and not your back.
For example, of the top 52 software companies in the world, 47 are American. What does that tell you.
NIKE, started and based here in Portland, Oregon is a marketing and sales company. They have never owned a shoe manufacturing plant. The shoes are all made in Asia.
What I am saying is that detailing today is still a cottage business with no main player. There are a few very successful detailers around the country, ones who have recognized what I am saying and in their areas have established a presence. This is something anyone can do, but you have to use your brains and not your brawn. You have to stop running the buffer and become a marketing and sales company.
Just one man's opinion.
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
Operating a business involves managing several factors: people (customers and employees); money and things (equipment/chemicals/supplies).
As discussed, the most important is the management of customers and employees.
You seem to acknowledge and realize that. This applies to a one man company as well as a company that has a lot of employees.
What a one man company must do is simply hire people to handle the people management and the money management.
Isn't that what an artist or entertainer does? Hires people to handle his business activities.
As for setting down the buffer, that is up to you. But let us look at the collision repair industry. Basically this has been a technician's business from it's inception. But all one has to do today is take a serious look at that industry to realize what has happened.
In 1975 there were 128,000 body shops in the USA. Today there are less than 55,000 and they predict this will soon be under 50,000. A 58% decline in shops yet the industry has quadrupled in dollar volume.
Why is that? More efficient, better managed and operated collision repair centers.
Today, if you go into a body shop you find women owners; owners who were bankers; teachers; coroporate executives, who knew nothing about the collision repair industry other than it is a several million dollar a year business for them. Most have never picked up a mallet or a spray gun.
A good friend of mine's son, a very successful insurance executive, left the industry with his money and bought a landscaping business. He is running the landscaping business, but I can guarantee you he is not on the job planting trees or cutting grass.
To make money in any business and not be a slave to the business you need to work smart and not hard. America has become an information economy, no longer an industrial economy. In today's American economy you make money using your head and not your back.
For example, of the top 52 software companies in the world, 47 are American. What does that tell you.
NIKE, started and based here in Portland, Oregon is a marketing and sales company. They have never owned a shoe manufacturing plant. The shoes are all made in Asia.
What I am saying is that detailing today is still a cottage business with no main player. There are a few very successful detailers around the country, ones who have recognized what I am saying and in their areas have established a presence. This is something anyone can do, but you have to use your brains and not your brawn. You have to stop running the buffer and become a marketing and sales company.
Just one man's opinion.
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 01:07AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 74 |
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 02:15AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 04:41AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>Okay Bud I have a question:
We have said on numerous occasions that the business will weed out inferior and overpriced products, right?
You also mentioned that your sealant is the exact same composition as everything else, nobody has anything unique and everyone else is overpricing- do I have that correct?
If you agree then you should have no problem telling us exactly what's in Diamond Plus, right? Would you please share the ingredient list?
Thank you,
Robert</HTML>
We have said on numerous occasions that the business will weed out inferior and overpriced products, right?
You also mentioned that your sealant is the exact same composition as everything else, nobody has anything unique and everyone else is overpricing- do I have that correct?
If you agree then you should have no problem telling us exactly what's in Diamond Plus, right? Would you please share the ingredient list?
Thank you,
Robert</HTML>
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 05:00AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Robert:
Did I say that the inferior and overpriced products would weed themselves out? Please indicate on what post I said that please, I do not recall making that statement.
By and large most detail products are the same. However, that does not mean that a chemical company cannot make their products better than another by the addition of certain ingredients more than another. Problem is that a detailer has no way of knowing which is better.
What we do know is that they are all about the same which means that price wise they should be priced about the same. I think you will find that the major detail chemical companies price their like products the same. It is only the internet boutique companies that over price.
What is in DIAMOND PLUS? Among other things:
Water
Mineral Oil
Amino Functional Silicones
Wax
Solvent
Talc
Surfactant
What else do you want to know.
By the way, if you want to view a comparison of the 25 of the more popular paint sealants and waxes we have completed the comparison test and it is available for a shipping and handling cost of only $7.95. It shows which chemicals have better reflective shine and which are more durable against salt water.
Let me know
BUD A</HTML>
buda
Did I say that the inferior and overpriced products would weed themselves out? Please indicate on what post I said that please, I do not recall making that statement.
By and large most detail products are the same. However, that does not mean that a chemical company cannot make their products better than another by the addition of certain ingredients more than another. Problem is that a detailer has no way of knowing which is better.
What we do know is that they are all about the same which means that price wise they should be priced about the same. I think you will find that the major detail chemical companies price their like products the same. It is only the internet boutique companies that over price.
What is in DIAMOND PLUS? Among other things:
Water
Mineral Oil
Amino Functional Silicones
Wax
Solvent
Talc
Surfactant
What else do you want to know.
By the way, if you want to view a comparison of the 25 of the more popular paint sealants and waxes we have completed the comparison test and it is available for a shipping and handling cost of only $7.95. It shows which chemicals have better reflective shine and which are more durable against salt water.
Let me know
BUD A</HTML>
buda
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 10:54AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 45 |
<HTML>Wayne, I only stopped by because of 1 reason:
1. Simply to respond to your false claims that you know what goes on behind the scenes at DC which of course, you are clueless. No trolls at DC, that is why you have a new alias every week.
OK, to enlighten you...,
I was offered discount wholesale pricing by steve of poorboys if I would post and "push" his products on your forum, telling how "great" they are.
After trying the products sent, I decided NOT to, as they were if fact not the quality I personally demand. They were also tested by others "in the know", such as "Guru Reports" and found to be low quality.
(Bud, have you tested poorboys products? If not, I can send you samples, as I do not use the stuff if you would like to post the results
After several emails wanting to know my "thoughts" on the product, I did just that, gave my opinions after extensive testing on auto panels and found it to be nothing special, durability is not even close to the 9 months protection as advertised, shine, depth and gloss was not very exciting, below average..., which, for the inflated pricing, I really did expect more.
Again, a victom of marketing/advertising hype, as Bud pointed out earlier.
The product was not better(or as good in many cases)as what I can purchase local for $20 - $30 a gallon, so in my opinion, why waste money on a "boutique" product that you can but local for MUCH MUCH less $$$.
Because I was truthfull and did not play "The Game" on your forum to "sucker" others into purchasing what premiumautocare now..., by "coinscidense" sells, I was no longer "a good guy" on the forum..., I knew too much and was not into decieving the public for the sake of GREED!!</HTML>
The "BEST of The BEST"
1. Simply to respond to your false claims that you know what goes on behind the scenes at DC which of course, you are clueless. No trolls at DC, that is why you have a new alias every week.
OK, to enlighten you...,
I was offered discount wholesale pricing by steve of poorboys if I would post and "push" his products on your forum, telling how "great" they are.
After trying the products sent, I decided NOT to, as they were if fact not the quality I personally demand. They were also tested by others "in the know", such as "Guru Reports" and found to be low quality.
(Bud, have you tested poorboys products? If not, I can send you samples, as I do not use the stuff if you would like to post the results
After several emails wanting to know my "thoughts" on the product, I did just that, gave my opinions after extensive testing on auto panels and found it to be nothing special, durability is not even close to the 9 months protection as advertised, shine, depth and gloss was not very exciting, below average..., which, for the inflated pricing, I really did expect more.
Again, a victom of marketing/advertising hype, as Bud pointed out earlier.
The product was not better(or as good in many cases)as what I can purchase local for $20 - $30 a gallon, so in my opinion, why waste money on a "boutique" product that you can but local for MUCH MUCH less $$$.
Because I was truthfull and did not play "The Game" on your forum to "sucker" others into purchasing what premiumautocare now..., by "coinscidense" sells, I was no longer "a good guy" on the forum..., I knew too much and was not into decieving the public for the sake of GREED!!</HTML>
The "BEST of The BEST"
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 12:53PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 9 |
<HTML>Wayne, please put things into the proper perspective.
You have made great claims. Now please provide the proof. Did you save this supposed email offer?
What you are claiming happened is not "behind the scenes" at DC.
What I do and say is the only "behind the scenes" and everyone knows I shoot straight and do not tolerate any nonsense.
The PremiumAutoCare site sells alot more than just Poorboys and if any manufacture approached you offering products in exchange for reviews that would be between you and the manufacturer, not having anything to do with me or Detail City. You should have made this public when it happened. Did you save the email? Let me see it.
Now that you have made these claims, I am asking you to provide to me proof.
I have already shown that I can pick you out of any crowd.
Now I want you to show me something. Put up or shut up.
You were no longer a "good guy" when you tried spamming the forum and selling your towels... you broke the rule of free advertising. Then you gained a reputation across the internet for being a troll and going under many different names.</HTML>
You have made great claims. Now please provide the proof. Did you save this supposed email offer?
What you are claiming happened is not "behind the scenes" at DC.
What I do and say is the only "behind the scenes" and everyone knows I shoot straight and do not tolerate any nonsense.
The PremiumAutoCare site sells alot more than just Poorboys and if any manufacture approached you offering products in exchange for reviews that would be between you and the manufacturer, not having anything to do with me or Detail City. You should have made this public when it happened. Did you save the email? Let me see it.
Now that you have made these claims, I am asking you to provide to me proof.
I have already shown that I can pick you out of any crowd.
Now I want you to show me something. Put up or shut up.
You were no longer a "good guy" when you tried spamming the forum and selling your towels... you broke the rule of free advertising. Then you gained a reputation across the internet for being a troll and going under many different names.</HTML>
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 01:22PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 45 |
<HTML>Dwayne, you are a compulsive liar. Wayne was NOT banned, but left freely because of all the BS and underhanded "deals" going on. (as you say, it is not behind the scenes, but now it is public knowledge, as others are noticing the "trend" at detail city and your other sites)
The conversation was via phone call, however, I will look to see if I can find the "wholesale receipts"
I NEVER ADVERTISED microfiber on your site.
Please show me the PROOF. Again, a lie!!
ALL posts about my microfiber products being a much higher quality than what you sell..., aswell as lower pricing was made by other board members at that time..., not by Wayne
(which by the way, was swiftly deleated)
Why were they deleated? Because of YOUR GREED and non-interest in TRUTH in product performance!
Again, you are selling "cheap" products at a GREATLY inflated price and ANYONE that has a better product is quickly removed from the web site..., including Bud Abraham, which IMO is a knowledgable detail person.
Again, show us the PROOF I was "spamming".
You can make up trash talk, but no back up.
I am sure you can "forge" a post, but I do have witnesses if they would like to get involved.
I will look for the poorboys documentation.
In the meantime, anyone know how to post a document?
Looks like detail city and dwayne's "true colors" are showing, LOL!!</HTML>
The "BEST of The BEST"
The conversation was via phone call, however, I will look to see if I can find the "wholesale receipts"
I NEVER ADVERTISED microfiber on your site.
Please show me the PROOF. Again, a lie!!
ALL posts about my microfiber products being a much higher quality than what you sell..., aswell as lower pricing was made by other board members at that time..., not by Wayne
(which by the way, was swiftly deleated)
Why were they deleated? Because of YOUR GREED and non-interest in TRUTH in product performance!
Again, you are selling "cheap" products at a GREATLY inflated price and ANYONE that has a better product is quickly removed from the web site..., including Bud Abraham, which IMO is a knowledgable detail person.
Again, show us the PROOF I was "spamming".
You can make up trash talk, but no back up.
I am sure you can "forge" a post, but I do have witnesses if they would like to get involved.
I will look for the poorboys documentation.
In the meantime, anyone know how to post a document?
Looks like detail city and dwayne's "true colors" are showing, LOL!!</HTML>
The "BEST of The BEST"
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 03:19PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 9 |
<HTML>I think the fact that I revealed you as Wayne the troll on this forum is all I really need to say.
Anything more would just be icing on the cake.
This is my last post at web-cars..... I just stopped by because I heard that you were talking about DC and lieing yet again.
Talk all you want. You have been revealed yet again and as long as I show people who you really are I take away any credibility that you may have had.
You will never provide the proof to back up your lies so I will not expect it.
Take care.
Dwayne</HTML>
Anything more would just be icing on the cake.
This is my last post at web-cars..... I just stopped by because I heard that you were talking about DC and lieing yet again.
Talk all you want. You have been revealed yet again and as long as I show people who you really are I take away any credibility that you may have had.
You will never provide the proof to back up your lies so I will not expect it.
Take care.
Dwayne</HTML>
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 05:49PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>Hey Bud,
Sorry if I confused. I was not quoting you verbatim, I was paraphrasing what I believe to be your stance. Facts talk and BS walks, that's why you did your comparison of finish products right? You have mentioned how dumb it is to pay too much for the same thing. Nobody disagrees so if this is true, time will tell and people will figure out pretty quickly they paid too much. Some like to pay more to feel better about what they're getting. We're not talking about them, we're talking about pros making a living.
I'm doing a price breakdown so would you mind figuring a shipping cost for one gallon of Diamond Plus to Chicago are (ballpark is fine) and give me an idea as to how many cars I could reasonably finish with one gallon?
Thanks-
Robert
Oh, and thank you for posting an ingredients list. I noticed you mentioned others, are they private (patented or secret) or unimportant (ie water). Also what type of wax or waxes do you use?
Thanks again.</HTML>
Sorry if I confused. I was not quoting you verbatim, I was paraphrasing what I believe to be your stance. Facts talk and BS walks, that's why you did your comparison of finish products right? You have mentioned how dumb it is to pay too much for the same thing. Nobody disagrees so if this is true, time will tell and people will figure out pretty quickly they paid too much. Some like to pay more to feel better about what they're getting. We're not talking about them, we're talking about pros making a living.
I'm doing a price breakdown so would you mind figuring a shipping cost for one gallon of Diamond Plus to Chicago are (ballpark is fine) and give me an idea as to how many cars I could reasonably finish with one gallon?
Thanks-
Robert
Oh, and thank you for posting an ingredients list. I noticed you mentioned others, are they private (patented or secret) or unimportant (ie water). Also what type of wax or waxes do you use?
Thanks again.</HTML>
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 06:45PM |
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 09:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
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Re: Lets Talk About the Business of Detailing October 18, 2003 09:33PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>Okay it seems I may giving the wrong impression. I am doing my own bookwork on the subject to get facts. Did I misunderstand your position? YES or NO?
Thank you for sending me the shipping cost on your sealant, it makes a difference in calculating end cost. How many cars could I expect to get out of one gallon?
I would not ask you to reveal anything detrimental to your business in terms of the ingredients. I just wanted to know, YES or NO if the unmentioned items are special touches to enhance your product and thus worth protecting or if they are inert or unimportant such as water, PD's, color, fragrance, whatever. I too want simple facts, that's what scientists do.
Lastly, does your wax report detail methods for obtaining results? Were UPP or EX included?
Thanks Bud</HTML>
Thank you for sending me the shipping cost on your sealant, it makes a difference in calculating end cost. How many cars could I expect to get out of one gallon?
I would not ask you to reveal anything detrimental to your business in terms of the ingredients. I just wanted to know, YES or NO if the unmentioned items are special touches to enhance your product and thus worth protecting or if they are inert or unimportant such as water, PD's, color, fragrance, whatever. I too want simple facts, that's what scientists do.
Lastly, does your wax report detail methods for obtaining results? Were UPP or EX included?
Thanks Bud</HTML>
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