What passes for experience on detailing forums

Originally Posted by wade_660 View Post
The body shop would not do this because they said that the paint will never last after its been buffed. Is this or is this not true? Will it really screw up the longevity of the paint?

Response from the pro:
Stay clear of this place b/c based on that they clearly have absolutely no clue what the hell they're talking about.


Paint correction (Buffing/polishing/etc) is a process by which a small amount (microscopic) of the clear coat is removed in order to level the finish and take out surface defects like light scratches, swirl marks, oxidation, etc. In this process you only use the least aggressive method to accomplish the task, often times this is the use of a dual action or random orbit polisher. Even if the original correction is a major one, its still not going to weaken the paint to a degree that failure is any more likely than if it hasn't been corrected.

The key there after is to reduce the need to have to correct the paint, thru proper washing and paint care. On average I'd say its safe to assume the average person will have to do a minor correction 2-3x a year to maintain a flawless finish, of course if they do a good job of proper washing and maintain a protective coating of sealant and/or wax.

With a tool like the porter cable and a mild polish/pad combo you can literally polish a factory paint job HUNDREDS of times before you ever come close to a point where excessive thinning of the clear/failure and/or strike thru is a concern.

So long story short - stop taking advice from hack jobs at body shops.


Here is another post from the same expert on paint correction

Default Re: Im confused about buffing and paint life
Paint correction with a DA or RO polisher is so shockingly simple and safe that we regularly let kids and little old ladies take the polishers to customer cars during demos.

Short of flipping the thing over and using it to beat the hood its not going to cause damage. It just augments what you can do, by essentially mimicing the movement you would make polishing by hand (think Mr. Miagi "wax on. wax off." from the Karate Kid) but doing it up to 6800x a minute.

Response from original person posting :

Thanks for the input guys. I didn't mean any disrespect by the detail shop comment in my first post. Once I reread it, it looked like I was being an ass. The reason I went to a body shop was because I figured that if anyone knew auto paint it would be them. Her paint is what you would expect from an 04 Tahoe with 130k. They may have it waxed once a year or they may forget all together. They are not car people and really don't care. I just noticed the oxidation and surface scratches last week and it drives me crazy. I have considered buying a porter cable, but from where I stand it looks intimidating. I have a window tint shop and feel like paint correction would be a good supplement to the business.



My Response:

This so called pro here pays money to promote Adams products on this forum, so he controls what is said on this forum. Who is this guy to say a person who paints cars for a living, and saw this vehicle is wrong for what he said here.

Quote from him on paint correction:
Paint correction with a DA or RO polisher is so shockingly simple and safe that we regularly let kids and little old ladies take the polishers to customer cars during demos.

Using his logic, WHY ARE THERE HACK DETAILERS IF IT IS SO SIMPLE? Now this guy who did this post feels he can do correction also by just using Adams products.

Another quote from him on paint correction:

Paint correction (Buffing/polishing/etc) is a process by which a small amount (microscopic) of the clear coat is removed in order to level the finish and take out surface defects like light scratches, swirl marks, oxidation, etc

What he says here is true,but how much is a small amount.Given the shine of the clear coat is on the top portion of the clear coat which is very thin.HOW DOES REMOVING A SMALL PORTION OF CLEAR EFFECT THE NATURAL SHINE? Who really knows.

His answer to the problem is to just apply products that enhance the shine, and he admits correction is needed 2 to 3 times a year on average to do what I ask? To compensate for the loss of natural shine from correction.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2012 05:15PM by detailer.

Bud Abraham [ PM ]
WHY NOT BUY FROM RON KETCHAM
September 20, 2004 09:02PM Registered: 6 years ago
Posts: 3,475
<HTML>Do any of you detailers on this forum know of a chemical company who provides more valuable information and assistance than Ron Ketcham and Auto International?

Why then would any of you purchase your chemicals from any other company?

This is what I do not understand about the detailing busines and detailers. You have a man with years of experience in the industry and a company that is offering a full line of chemicals and much valuable information on their website for free, and yet detailers continue to buy from companies that offer them nothing.

Does not make sense to me.

It is clear that Ketch's company has one of the finest lines of chemicals in the industry and yet they get only a token amount of business from detailers on this forum.

Anyone care to comment on that?

By the way, DETAIL PLUS does sell chemicals but we are first and foremost an equipment and consulting company.

Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>



Later comment by BUD

Bud Abraham [ PM ]
Re: WHY NOT BUY FROM RON KETCHAM
September 21, 2004 10:36AM Registered: 6 years ago
Posts: 3,475
<HTML>Wayne:

I know nothing about Ketch's chemicals, I only know the man and if his company's chemicals are anything like him then detailers cannot go wrong using his chemicals.

You all state what chemicals you use, but again do any of these companies give you the assistance and help that Ketch does.

Any company selling any product should give customer service and smile when they sell you their product, but you are dealing with a commodity, you can buy about the same thing from any company.

It is like someone asked here a while back, "what can I do to set my detail business apart from another?"

I ask what sets one chemical company apart from another? Just exactly what Ron Ketcham is doing on these forums, contributing, giving and not expecting anything in return. Keep in mind that he is not just a distributor for his company, he is a principal in the company.

It seems to me that detailers should take a closer look at to whom they give their business and what they get in return for it.

Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>



My comments:

Quote:
I know nothing about Ketch's chemicals, I only know the man and if his company's chemicals are anything like him then detailers cannot go wrong using his chemicals.



Maybe I am crazy, but does this statement make any sense ? Bud says he does know what is in the products Ron sells, but then he rambles on:

This is what I do not understand about the detailing busines and detailers. You have a man with years of experience in the industry and a company that is offering a full line of chemicals and much valuable information on their website for free, and yet detailers continue to buy from companies that offer them nothing.

Does not make sense to me.

It is clear that Ketch's company has one of the finest lines of chemicals in the industry and yet they get only a token amount of business from detailers on this forum.

Anyone care to comment on that?

This what I do not understand about the detailing business and detailers is why they do not do research on experts
before they take their advice.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2012 05:13PM by detailer.

Quote from Pro-Techt:

I actually called and spoke to GEM's owner a
> little while back. Oh boy, was that an interesting
> and scary conversation. He's about as clueless as
> ole Hack man himself. Like talking to his
> conjoined twin. Like buffers are bad, blah, blah,
> blah, blah. AT-5 is a miracle product, blah, blah,
> blah, blah. I asked him for a sample and he said
> no. No that's a company that believes in their
> product?? And that's when he told me about Bill
> and how he used to sell AT-5 for him, but stopped
> their business relationship. Seems like with all
> this AT-5 pushing he does, he should be letting
> him back in for a 2nd chance? Guess not huh?


Would you give him a sample with that attitude? The owner Rich and I have not stopped our business relationship at all.I am 57 , and not doing this full time anymore.

This is what passes for a moderator on other forums. You can see his open mind on the subject.
It really seems strange that he is so sure I am wrong about this product, but he calls for a sample. Wonder why that is?

Clearly Rich got the same impression about him that I did.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2012 03:35AM by detailer.

So everyone that reads this knows>>>>

The fellow starting this thread (detailer) is banned member Billd55. His real name Bill Daley. He was asked to change his attitude or be banned, but as you can see he didn't listen and isn't allowed to post here.

He is a paid shill from GEM Industried and is pushing theirAT-5 sealant. He has no experience usng any of the latest paint sealants on the market and considers himself a Detailer when all he is able to do is apply this product to paint in inferior condition.

Pro-Techt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So everyone that reads this knows>>>>
>
> The fellow starting this thread (detailer) is
> banned member Billd55. His real name Bill Daley.
> He was asked to change his attitude or be banned,
> but as you can see he didn't listen and isn't
> allowed to post here.
>
> He is a paid shill from GEM Industried and is
> pushing theirAT-5 sealant. He has no experience
> usng any of the latest paint sealants on the
> market and considers himself a Detailer when all
> he is able to do is apply this product to paint in
> inferior condition.


Need I say more. Agree with me, or be banned. Who is the control freak here?

I am not paid by GEM Industries at all, and he has no proof.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2012 03:52AM by detailer.

-------------------------------------------------------
> Pro-Techt Wrote:
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> The solution to swirl marks is to not create them
> > in the 1st place. On cars I've corrected and
> > maintained, swirls don't come back. They're
> 100% gone from the finish.
>
>
> You have mentioned before you go back several
> times a year doing minor correction. I can find
> the quote if needed!
> At least I have used one product that I believe
> in







Read again what I said.........
On cars I've maintained meaning washed.

All the cars I go back to do light corrections on are the ones that I don't "maintain"







billd55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
You keep saying proper polishing permanently prevents these types of problems. I do not see it.

I never said I permanently prevented them. I said I permanently corrected the initial paint defects meaning that the defects weren’t filled or hidden like they were at the factory.



What does this mean exactly? He says they are not permanently gone, but he permanently corrected the initial paint
defects.That makes zero sense.

If you can't figure out what I'm writing then you have a comprehension problem. Either that, or bad case of detailing dyslexia disorder.

When I correct paint, I mechanically level the defects/swirls out of the paint. Very similar to how a jeweler polishes a piece of gold. If you knew how to polish paint then you would have no problem grasping this very basic concept. Again, you showing that you have no clue about detailing.

Pro-Techt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you can't figure out what I'm writing then you
> have a comprehension problem. Either that, or bad
> case of detailing dyslexia disorder.
>
> When I correct paint, I mechanically level the
> defects/swirls out of the paint. Very similar to
> how a jeweler polishes a piece of gold. If you
> knew how to polish paint then you would have no
> problem grasping this very basic concept. Again,
> you showing that you have no clue about detailing.


David

I understand completely what you do. I have been doing detailing longer than you.

What you do and have done is not called detailing. Wake up and smell the coffee. Calling yourself a detail is a title you have to earn. No amount of years can make you a detailer when all you do is hack cars. Stop being disrespectful to this forum, this industry and all the real detailers across the world.

Bill every professional DETAILER and some not so professional know you cannot make corrections in paint finishes by only applying paint sealant?

buda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill every professional DETAILER and some not so
> professional know you cannot make corrections in
> paint finishes by only applying paint sealant?

My answer:
He even suggests that Socrates may have been an original troll, baiting people with silly questions and then mocking them

troll and a spammer