LIQUID EBONY

How many of you professional detailers are using Liquid Ebony?

Regards

Isent Liquid Ebony old school?

What do you mean, "old school?" The product was developed a few years back, but the technology is still relevant as long as there are black cars, I would think.

The following was posted on www.diecast.org forum :

"Terry, there is one product out there that has been around for a long time called Liquid Ebony. Made by Clearbright, this stuff is the original swirl remover and is usually only found in automotive painters supply stores. For getting out fine scratches or swirl marks out of paint after buffing there simply is no better product. It has a barely noticable VERY FINE abrasive and resembles chalk water. I use it on my 1/1 cars and bikes, the $4-5000 paint jobs on the custom Harleys I build for people, my diecasts and have even got scratches out of CD's with the stuff. It's magic is most noticable on black paint(right up your ally) but it does need a coat of wax/sealer after your done."

Ed.

When Liquid Ebony came out there was no such thing as foam buffing pads, so when you used it it still left swirl marks from the wool pads , although much less.Now I would think that with the modern foam pads Liquid Ebony would work just fine.

Larry

Did you not use it with a sheepskin finishing pad? Those were the polishing/finishing pads of the early days.

Regards

When I buffed out new lacquer paint in the mid 60s, which was before Liquid Ebony , I used Blue Coral liquid which was the cleaner polish used before Blue Coral Preservetive Sealer . At the time it done the job much better then compound alone.

Larry was that with a 100% woven wool pad or with a sheepskin pad?

100% woven wool. Thats all that they would buy.

You could not get the best results with a woven wool pad which is a cutting pad.

There were some old timers, who did develop unbelieveable buffing skills with a wool cutting pad that could swirl remover and polish with them, but they are not around anymore.

Regards

I know what your going to say Bud, that the wool pads caused the swirls, and you are right. When I first starting buffing we did Lustur Seal treatments and with that we used sheepskin, and it did leave a better finish. Back then they use to say that if you sprinkeled corn starch on the paint and lightly buffed dry that it would remove swirls . I never tried it . I should have just to see if it worked.

I am still around, used a 4 ply wool and heavy cutting compound, then Liquid Ebony or Black Magic with a natural lambs wool, low speed, then some corn starch with the pad litely misted with water.

Fro, 1958 until the early to mid 70's.

That was for old lacquer type refinish jobs.

No need for that today with advances made in buffing materials, and the high solid urethane clears used.

Ketch

I used to own a reconditioning business. Actually got started in it in the late 1960's and had a used car business and an auto recon business around 1974 or thereabouts till 1978. I used a lot of liquid ebony. It was great stuff and if used properly and if the paint wasn't too far gone it often eliminated the need to first use compound.

Is it still being made???

Talking to a number of chemists in the auto detail industry, including our own, what they tell me about Liquid Ebony is the following:

"It is not old technology. Rather it is just a unique combination of oils and slight abrasives that seem to work well with a buffer and polishing pad, especially on black and dark colored paints.

It has the same type of abrasives that numerous detail polishes utilize.

You could be called it "old technology" because it does not use some of the alumina based abrasives used in many compounds and polishes today.

However, it still buffs today's clear-coats of today just as well as it did on the single stage paints.

The big difference in paint finishes of today vs yesterday is the lowering of the VOC's and higher solids paint.

Neither of those things change much on how paint is buffed.

As most detailers know you have to be more careful with today's clears because there is only 1.5 to 2.0 mils of clear vs 4 to 6 mils of film with a single stage paint.

Even with today's water-based paint systems there are no problems using something like Liquid Ebony, the result is the same. What is important is pad and how the detailer uses the tool.

Liquid Ebony or like products does not have the kind of abrasives in it that will remove deep swirls or scratches, it is really a filler type product to provide a "flawless" finish on black or dark paint finishes.

It is really all about what you want to achieve.

That is why it is important for a detailer to understand the products they are using and how they perform and what they will do.


Regards
Bud Abraham

i still have some liquid ebony which i bought about 8 years ago.. LOL! about half a bottle left.
_________________
auto parts online | -tammy beede-

If you run out we will be offering a like product called "Black Beauty."

Regards
Bud Abraham

liquid ebony is a short term filler product. I dont believe in using short term fillers, either correction polishes, paint deep cleaners and long term fillers

SVR73:

You are absolutely correct, it is a filler. The purpose for dark cars is that after you have corrected a problem with compound; swirl removed & polished with a swirl eliminator you can use the Black Beauty aka Liquid Ebony to "fill in" the spider scratches that are "always" there no matter how good a detailer is with a buffer and polishing pad.

Then protect with a wax or paint sealant.

Regards
Bud Abraham

How does the product work with a forced action polisher?

Gina

Not familiar with the term "forced action polisher." Is that a trade secret too?

Now that they have become popular it is no longer a trade secret.. I assume you are aware of dual action polishers well with forced action polishers the pad moves in a forced rotation that keeps moving even when you put some pressure on the machine. (at least that is my understanding being not very mechanical)

How about sharing your formula for waterless wash I am thinking of coming out with a product line?

OK, thanks for the explanation. What you are calling "forced action" I would call dual-action which is similiar to the Cyclo and Flex action as well as our Dual Action Buffer (as we call it) to not confuse it with an orbital which will stop with pressure applied. The dual action will spin and will create some friction/heat.

The Black Beauty would work perfectly with a dual action tool, at leaset our air powered dual action buffer and a polishing pad.

Sharing My Formula for WATERLESS WASH 'n SHINE? That is like asking Coke to share their formula for their cola.

I am happy to provide you a sample and to sell to you at my LOWEST PRICES, because you are such a nice person. Let me know

Bud A

a cyclo or dual action cannot be compared with a forced action polisher.. I have both the cyclo and da and it is not the same

Then what is a forced action tool. Can you provide me a brand name and model?

Does anyone else here know the term, "forced action polisher."

Regards

Try using a festool feq 150 and see if there is a difference between a porter cabale dual action or cyclo. The festool feq 150 can also be used as a dual action with the switch of a button.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2010 09:59PM by concoursgarage.

If you google.com the terms, "Forced Action Polisher" you get a number sites to click on to that indicated that the Flex and Porter Cable dual-action tools have a "forced action."

My experience with the Cyclo, although limited, is that it too is a dual-action and creates the same friction and heat as a Flex.

I would agree, although you did not say it. that the Porter-Cable DA does not have the same action as the Flex or Cyclo or our air powered Dual Action Buffer.

If you know something that we do not know Gina please let us know the "action" of the tool you are describing as well as the brand and model number.

Thanks

bud -

maybe there would be spider scratches if I looked at the paint with a forensic microscope or something near to that but from 1000 lumen LED lights, halogens, sun gun and HID lights, I never see any marring in my work

I no longer use compounds or diminishing abrasives, the new SMAT spray formulas from optimum, the 3 in 1 system one X3 polish and a 5 abrasive ceramix formula that is made in australia by XPERT
gone are the days for me of using any corrective products that are finer and finer in grade from 1000 grit compound to 3000 and 4000 grit finishing polishes

just xpert and system 1 X3 is all thats needed (either one or the other) and I dont use just three pads with my best services
just because the marks are gone doesnt mean its all over and time to wax or seal
I go from wool or light cut foam to a 70, 80, 90 and a 100 ppi pad for the highest amount of clarity and colour shade richness then I follow with glazes from Prima and or the GLARE australian versions which have less drying agent in them and more of the active ingredient

with express and the cheaper services we offer, all these steps cant be done but at least we offer them

we dont use any fillers that can wash out as that is totally pointless

as long as detailers stick with the old ways of using oil based glazes that fill for a short time and do two to three step correction with older technology systems, this industry will never have a great image with the public

so many of your comments about many subjects that I've read over the years are so true and spot on but to say that with anything except a microscope or insane light that I leave marring after machine buffing, that is incorrect

with my techniques and the new one my friend here in the USA has taught me (am in idaho till sep 3), almost all vehicles paint looks like they have come out of a paint booth again because of using such fine grade foam and the surbuf MF's as well as being extremely smooth with the machine, dead flat on the paint, always keeping the pad clean, being slow and methodical with movement and not alternating the movements like some do from slow to fast then back to slo

though I have to say that paint correction is becoming a little dated and unless we find a way to harden the paint (which we can do a little tiny bit), as bild55 says over and over, its only a temporary fix to an extent



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2010 12:54AM by svr73.

You make some wonderful points and I am certainly glad that you have found a process and system that works for you.

This product, Black Beauty is just another of many on the market available for detailer to try and to use or reject based on what they are trying to achieve.

What I have discovered in my years in this business is that the "detailer" puts some stress on themselves to turn out a "flawless finish" than the customer wants or even appreciates. And this includes the supposed "know it all dealers.' They typically look to see if you took the dirt out of the rubber door modelings; cleaned the a/c vents; the glove box, etc. Few I have ever found worry about the paint finish as long as it shines.

Have recently opened an express detail service operation in a car wash and all we do is maintenance waxes, carpet shampoos, seats shampoos.

It is amazing how many people with luxury cars when told our service will not take out scratches, water spots, etc. say it is ok, do it anyway. And, when they come back they say, "see I told you, the car looks great, thank you and I will bring my wife's car in tomorrow."

What we have to realize in business is that we are not detailing for ourselves we are detailing for the consumer and what their expectations and price point is.

If you do not want to detail that way then you need to focus on very anal-retentive customers who want everything to be perfect and are willing to pay for it.

When you find a few of those send me their profile I would like to locate those types in my city.

The only ana-retentive person I know does everything himself because he does not believe anyone can do it to his satisfaction.

Regards
Bud Abraham

yes there are too many who detail the car according to their own needs rather than the customers
I'm all for achieving flawless finishes that last but thats not always needed or necessary

australian consumers are more picky, the general public take care of their cars better than americans (at least in some states of america) and many want paint correction and a perfect finish but its not for everyone

<<yes there are too many who detail the car according to their own needs rather than the customers>>

IMO Detailing services should have a standard and consumers should not get to decide what those standards should be for any business. What a business should do is to offer services to meet consumer needs and those services should be called something else.

For example when a customer requests a detailing service I respond to the question with a detailed explanation of what those services are and the cost and then based on condition of vehicle I am evaluating ...I offer other/alternate services with a description and level of expectation. As an example supposed a customer spilled a gallon of milk in the vehicle and wanted me to detail and shampoo the vehicle only... and declines to accept the process I suggest for remediating the problem ... I will decline the job as it is a no-win situation for me and for him... the vehicle will look cleaner but will still stink and he/she will always believe I did a bad job