Wet Car wash shampoo tech questions

Dear Bud

What are the typical ingredients in PH neutral and alkaline car wash products and what does each one do?

I have had problems over the years with almost every product, regardless of its claim of being strong in hard water, conditioning the paint, having some protection in them and more

The common problem with them on a perfectly refinished car (thats super high end detailing for the uninitiated) is that these washes take away slickness, dry the paint out over time and reduce polymer sealants durability

Now I do use semi waterless to wash cars as well but I still do use wet washes and the water goes from the water catchment mat straight to our olive trees
the products I currently use for washing are
DRIVEN TO PERFECTION CAR WASH, MEGUIARS GOLD CLASS & GLARE ULTRA WASH WITH GLASSPLEXIN

too many shampoo's have sodium laureth sulfate in them and I believe this to be what makes the foaming suds which give the dwell time and also increase the body/thickness of the liquid

But what do these offer in it
Coconut oil diethanolamide
OXYBENZONE
diethanolamine

I have picked up some good chemistry knowledge from studying CAS numbers and doing research on the ingredients I see listed on product bottles
these ingredients dont sound that flash for car paint.

I want a shampoo whether traditional or semi waterless/waterless to not contain degreasing agents, anything that dries out the paint, reduces slickness or strips wax/sealant/coatings over time

and a shampoo that can clay at the same time by using kaophilite clay particles as diamondite used when they invented that spray clay

Thanks for any information you can share and any way we can improve upon shampoo formulations

I was thinking about something similar myself today. A waterless wash that also removes tar.

But I think the chemical properties of the specific ingredients would react with each other - or with the paint.

It also boils down to R and D, marketing and if there is a general requirement for products like the one you are looking for.

Have to say, never heard of the Diamondite before. Does it work better than regular clay on glass?.... I'm sure it does - the real question is do you think its worth the extra investment?

if its in big enough size containers, yes it is. I mean you wouldnt use that instead of clay only but its brilliant for alot of things including glass

Looks like I will have to continue making my own products so they do what I want them too. too many manufacturers are closed minded and think that all there is in detailing is wash, dewax, remove tar, cut and polish and do the seats. SORRY NO THERES A SHITLOAD MORE THAN THAT

SVR73:

Sorry for delay in replying. You bring up a great many points in your post. Let me deal with the first one. pH.

That is a scale to measure the pH (I will get you a definition later) of a cleaning product.

The scale ranges from 1 through 14.

On the scale 7 is consider neutral pH, neither acidic or akaline.

Anything below 6 is acidic. Things like hydroflouric acid wheel cleaners you are looking at a pH of 3 or 4.

Anything above 7 is considered alkaline.

The more caustic an alkaline cleaner contains the "hotter" it is. The typical caustic used is sodium hydroxide. Not all cleaners contain heavy caustics, however. Your engine degreasers, white wall cleaners can contain heavy caustics to "burn the soil" off the surface since the surface will not be harmed by the caustic on a tire or in an engine. Unless you have alumuninum head covers.

Carwash shampoos, carpet shampoos; leather cleaners; all purpose cleaners are generally in the 8 to 10 catagory but not much higher than that.

If you go to www.carwash.com and look in the archives for some of my articles I did one on pH. A good explanation beyond the brief description I have given here.

A SECRET - buy chemicals from a legitimate, trustworthy manufacturer and distributor and buy chemicals for what they are formulated to do. Carpet shampoo for carpets; engine degreaser for engines, wheel cleaners for wheels. Then you will not have problems. You use chemicals for what they are not formulated to do and you have problems. Many detailers use engine degreaser to shampoo carpets. Why not? It works, and works good. Of course it does and so would laundry detergent on your hair too.

If you do that you will not have problems.

First of you do not "dry-out" by washing it with any chemical. Where did you get that idea.

A properly formulated carwash shampoo will not contain stripping agents that take off wax or sealant. However there are some carwash shampoos that will stripe oils, waxes, reduce silicones etc. Kind of like Buffer Bill using Dawn to wash and strip the finish so he can apply his wonder sealant.

All that said, no matter what product you use to wash with, the more often you wash the car, even with just water (which, by the way, is considered a cleaning solvent) you will wear away slickness, shine and protection.

That is the way it is

Bud, a local supplier of Autoglym was suggesting I use their carpet & fabric shampoo to remove Bugs because of the alkalinity. Would you see a problem with that? I was surprised at the recommendation...

If that is the kind of advise that I got from a detail chemical distributor I would fine another supplier.

Go to the Autoglym website and hit CONTACT and ask them if you should use "Carpet & Upholstery Shampoo" for removing bugs.

A carpet and upholstery shampoo typically does not contain the kinds of surfactants, etc that would be strong enough to remove insect residue effectively.

Or, the pH of the product is not high enough to be effective to remove the insect residue.

Why not use it to wash the car too? Or, to clean the engine.

I think if you used it as a leather/vinyl cleaner you would find it not strong enough to remove soil on dirtier, light colored leather or vinyl.

Use products for what they were formulated for, that is the best rule to follow.

Regards
Bud Abraham

If that is the kind of advise that I got from a detail chemical distributor I would fine another supplier.

Go to the Autoglym website and hit CONTACT and ask them if you should use "Carpet & Upholstery Shampoo" for removing bugs.

A carpet and upholstery shampoo typically does not contain the kinds of surfactants, etc that would be strong enough to remove insect residue effectively.

Or, the pH of the product is not high enough to be effective to remove the insect residue.

Why not use it to wash the car too? Or, to clean the engine.

I think if you used it as a leather/vinyl cleaner you would find it not strong enough to remove soil on dirtier, light colored leather or vinyl.

Use products for what they were formulated for, that is the best rule to follow.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Thanks Bud

Know all about PH levels and have testing strips that I use to measure products PH before use or to see what PH level new products I buy are

Some say water is acidic. tap water maybe.
Agree about using products for what they were meant for. Thats a given. I'd never use engine degreaser on carpets. thats just nuts

Try using a Car Wash Shampoo with wax. That will help with lubrication especially when using a wash mit. You can also use it while you clay the vehicle. Because it does contain wax the ph levels are contain and not allowing you to strip and existing waxes or sealant off your vehicle. This will work if you are doing a maintenance detail. AND please do not use dish washer soap.

Ruben Jr.

Ruben Jr.
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Ruben wouldn't claying a car strip the wax off since the purpose of clay is to "strip" the finish in the first place?

The purpose of the clay is to remove environmental fallout. Yes, it will remove any chemical you have on there, but this is why you would clay a car once every 6 - 12 months and then apply a fresh coat of wax. Great meeting you, Talk to you later. Check out these links. Have a Happy Thanks Giving

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Ruben Jr.
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So contrary to what you stated in another post "clay does strip off wax?

Have you ever thought about attending a seminar or professional training course?

Ruben Jr.
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Thank you for the invitation, do you know one I could attend. What is the cirriculum please? The cost? The location? Who are the instructors? What are their qualificiations?

Regards

When you get a chance take a look at the website under my name. You can literally spend hours on there.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2010 01:08AM by rubenjr73.

Ruben

Thank you very much. Say hello to Stephen Kawalakowski for me, I think he is your boss.

And you take a look at my website www.detailplus.com I think you will find it interesting as well and you can spend a lot of time there too.

Regards