Really sick of the insults and comments

Look

You do not have to except what I say, but I have been very patient and respectful in trying to answer your questions. Although, it has come to a point were certain people should mind there own business, and cool the rude comments and insults. Not once have I used insulting terms to
anyone here.

This is a forum were everyone has a right to express an opinion. No one is stopping anyone here the right to post what they want, or forcing them
to read what I say. You create your own drama here by responding back, so just ignore me. It is not that this forum is the most popular one on the
internet, but it is certainly the most fair to all opinions.


I am trying to wake people up, and not to convince the groupies here. I have not posted for a few months, and I can see that not many posts have
been entered. I have been detailing for many years, and not selling products for a living. Granted I may not be a chemist, nor is Bud or Ron either,
but I have used a product since the early 90's that truly works. It has been tested by NASA, and is being used on commercial jets. It was proven
to increase fuel efficency by 1%. No wax or sealant can make that claim. This is the reason I know what I am saying about wax is true.

I feel it is time to complain to Paul about the conduct of certain people here. I would appreciate that you keep your rude comments and insults to yourself.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2011 03:58PM by billd55.

Bill

You are absolutely correct that a forum is place where people can express their opinions and give testimony to products they use, etc.

But, others can disagree with what you say from both a informed technical point of view and a subjective opinion point of view. Those disagreements are certainly not personal, just a disagreement with what you say.

The key is, don't argue with them, let it be, just as you say, it is their opinion.

A good philosophy to follow is that of the Great Buddah. A disciple of Buddah was with him when a large group of people were hurling "insults" at him while he simply stood there and said nothing. When Buddah and the disciple had left, the young man asked Buddah,

"Oh Great Buddah, why did you stand there and take all of those insults and not reply to them?"

Calmly Buddah smiled at the young disciple and said:

"You must realize young man, that an insult is like a gift, you have the option of accepting it or
refusing it."

Regards

When someone calls you a moron I would assume that is personal. Enough, with your words of wisdom. Since our first conversation you have
argued with everthing I have said, and gladly jumped in to express your negative opinion based on zero facts. You have even brought in your phantom friends(expertdetailer) to do your dirty work to add credibility to arguements.


Your new post is a personal attack on me, and you just cannot let it go. You have to stir the pot to get a reaction. I rarely comment on your posts,
but you comment on mine almost all of time. Bud, you do not have a passion for this business, it is a way to make a living. Ron is much the same way. So far you have called me a religious nut, a blow hard, and now a moron just to name a few. I really find little need to discuss anything with you because since you have not tried AT-5, it is fruitless to discuss anything with you.


Really, you may think I am talking to the groupies here, but I am not. Hopefully, I can help someone avoid having there brand new car destroyed
buy the advice you would offer.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2011 06:08PM by billd55.

Like most people I watch some TV, have some favorite shows.
Also, like most, have had the experience of certain commercials.
We all realize that commercials pay the bills of the network or show, so tolerate them.
To a point.
We have all been pushed to that "point' at one time or another.
You know the ones or that "single-OMG-not again" commercial!
What started out as a "oh, that's interesting" or "that humerous" turns into the commerical from hell.
It runs three times or more an hour, same thing, same thing, same thing!
You get to the point that the first thing you do when it comes on is hit the remote-"Oh, look a show on the mating habits of beetles!", "my, I never knew there was a show on how to ice a cake?".
As time goes on and the commercial from hell invades your mind enough you make yourself a promise----
"I DON'T CARE IF THAT PRODUCT WOULD BRING ABOUT WORLD PEACE-I'LL NEVER BUY IT, TRY IT, OR RECOMMEND IT!"

Over selling of anything usually has negative results.

Grumpy

Ron

Really, you do not own this forum, so let it go. You and Bud are not the masters of the show here.Please, get off your high horse . No one is asking you to buy my product, and to be honest I really do not think you have the intelligence to use any way.

Is it the fact that a lonely detailer could know more than you, and your ego cannot handle it. I have not posted anything here for months, but you hang on here like a bad disease to pass your words of wisdom on to someone who asks a question.


Why not go to another forum were you can read things you agree with and be happy, Trust me, there are plenty. Or please mind your own business. I am not pushing products here like Bud does all the time which by the way would not fly one moment on other forums. No where
am I solicting for anyone to buy this product, so what is your problem. Enough said.


I will say one thing that I do agree that Nu Finish is a better alternative than the crap on the market. If you think so highly of this product why not mention it more, and write a post about it .



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2011 09:04PM by billd55.

"Really sick of the insults and comments"


Then stop continually posting your crap then? Besides these comments creating a feeding frenzy for people to abuse you with, why not change your direction of conversation? If you’re a real professional detailer like your claim to be, then why not start conversing about all the other important aspects of the industry? You’re like a broken record with this AT-5 & wax crap. I personally think you’ve ruined any chance for you to be considered relevant with these 1-deminsional arguments by repeatedly posting the same conjecture over and over again on credible detailing forums (which is the real reason for your banning).

Bud and Ron’s original banning on Autopia was as a result of actually BEING credible, knowledgeable and threatening to the prior forum owner’s agenda to grow his own product line. Can you understand that??? Dozens, if not countless more were banned for this very reason and for questioning his agenda. As soon as the forum changed hands, they were allowed back and publically apologized to. THAT’S A FACT! You will never be allow back on any of the forums you were banned from because you’ve brought shame not only onto yourself, but to the detailing and car care industry as a whole. You obviously don’t get it as almost every person that has come across your belief system has either chosen to not comment on it or bashed it. I’ve never seen 1 credible person stand up for your way of thinking? Wonder why? Stop thinking that everyone is wrong and you’re right because you’re not. Just because your “pitch” comes across ok to unknowledgeable clients in your area or to isolated/inexperienced people on a forum you heavily market yourself on, doesn’t make your opinion credible. I’d like to see what real knowledge you have about the world of detailing, not just some cut-out uneventful sliver you keep fighting about tooth and nail. If you start posting about things outside this scope of discussion, then maybe, just maybe, people will start treating you will a little more respect. I certainly will try….


As far as AT5 and me trying it went, I actually attempted to go about getting some. I left 2 messages on Gem's voice message too(w/o a call back btw). I would have driven by their facility as well, but they don't list an address on their web-site? Just a PO Box??? WTF? I have to admit they do a poor job of marketing themselves. The only info I came up with is the stuff you've posted about it in your threads. And, I then thought to myself that even if I took the time to actually try the product and possibly ended up not liking it, then you would come up with any and all excuses to void my findings. So I crossed it off my list and moved on....

Pro-Techt,
Very well put.
A well thought out, logical response.
Unfortunately you are pissing in the wind regarding attempting to make sense to this nut case who doesn't even have a clue of what you, me or anyone else has for responses.
Good luck if you continue to even respond to such garbage, I know I am no longer going to do so.
Why waste the time and energy to do?
Grumpy

Thanks Ron, we'll have to wait and see....

I, for one, would really enjoy seeing Bill post about other things to "take in" his knowledge of real world detail-related issues as there's more to life then what has already been discussed (I mean beaten ).

Right on Ketch!

You wrestle with a pig you both get dirty, but the pig loves the dirt.

Isn't the famous saying, "if the shoe fits, wear it."

You are the guys creating your own little drama club here. If I am such a nut then just ignore my posts, but for some reason you just cannot.




Pro-Techt quote:
As far as AT5 and me trying it went, I actually attempted to go about getting some. I left 2 messages on Gem's voice message too(w/o a call back btw). I would have driven by their facility as well, but they don't list an address on their web-site? Just a PO Box??? WTF? I have to admit they do a poor job of marketing themselves. The only info I came up with is the stuff you've posted about it in your threads. And, I then thought to myself that even if I took the time to actually try the product and possibly ended up not liking it, then you would come up with any and all excuses to void my findings. So I crossed it off my list and moved on....


Excuses are like assholes, and everyone got them. This quote shows why I was completely right about Pro-Techt.




Pro-Techt quote:

Bud and Ron’s original banning on Autopia was as a result of actually BEING credible, knowledgeable and threatening to the prior forum owner’s agenda to grow his own product line. Can you understand that???


No,I guess I have not taken my med's today .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2011 10:22PM by billd55.

Grumpy2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pro-Techt,
> Very well put.
> A well thought out, logical response.
> Unfortunately you are pissing in the wind
> regarding attempting to make sense to this nut
> case who doesn't even have a clue of what you, me
> or anyone else has for responses.
>>

My reply was an attempt to break bread with Bill in hopes that I'd try to give him the benefit of the doubt moving forward respectfully and optimistically, But, like always, you've proven to be right again Ron! By his pathetic excuse of an insulting reply he's shown us once again that it is indeed like "pissing in the wind" trying to rationalize with him. Thanks Bill! Like the old saying goes....."The beatings will continue until morale improves"

Used to think it was only religion and politics you did not discuss since the subjects are so personal and can be quite divisive.

But it would appear having a discussion with Bill if you don't agree with him is also futile.

As he says we should all ignore his posts, any discussion is futile, as I said, if you do not agree with what he says.

Just my thoughts

Wont somebody just try AT5 just to prove Bill right or wrong . I would but I cant afford to buy any more waxes, polishes, sealants , besides I dont think anybody would listen to me anyhow. Right now my sister works for a company that makes waxes , polishes and sealants , and I have more stuff then Ill use in a life time.

Larry A Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wont somebody just try AT5 just to prove Bill
> right or wrong . I would but I cant afford to buy
> any more waxes, polishes, sealants , besides I
> dont think anybody would listen to me anyhow.
> Right now my sister works for a company that makes
> waxes , polishes and sealants , and I have more
> stuff then Ill use in a life time.


Why waste the effort? You'll just get a bunch of excuses that you must of applied it wrong or you're lying about the results. Common, this is just a regular ole paint sealant after all. When's the last time anyone tried one that didn't make their paint look or feel better? I've never used one that made my car look worse? Stick with what works the easiest and costs the least. Beyond that it's mostly irrelavant IMHO.

Protecht's words of wisdom:

Why waste the effort? You'll just get a bunch of excuses that you must of applied it wrong or you're lying about the results. Common, this is just a regular ole paint sealant after all. When's the last time anyone tried one that didn't make their paint look or feel better? I've never used one that made my car look worse? Stick with what works the easiest and costs the least. Beyond that it's mostly irrelavant IMHO.


The only one making excuses here is Pro-Techt. For some reason, he just cannot let it go. He has made up his mind with zero facts to make any
determination that it is irrealvant. His ego is just too big to admit that he could wrong about something. Really that is just fine with me, but he continues to advise people about this product like he has the the slightest clue of what he is talking about.

He comes on this forum claiming to be the GOD of Detailing using Bud and Ron as his experts which is a joke. He has posted one picture of a black SUV as his proof of his detailing skills. He asks this question:When's the last time anyone tried one that didn't make their paint look or feel better? Sure, your car looks great at first. The guys with the 2011 black vehicles which I posted from the meguiars forum thought that at first too.
Alhough, why are these individuals asking how to remove swirls or water spots after a very short time after application. Maybe he does not consider these things making the paint look worse.

Here is his motto:"Stick with what works the easiest and costs the least" Basically , use the products that are cheap and easy to apply. This is why this business is were it is. Just for the record, AT-5 is very inexpensive and is very easy to apply on a new car. The difference between AT-5
and a poly sealant is that the polysealant will require far more effort do the road.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 11:24PM by billd55.

Bill

Why do you say that Ketch and I as experts are a joke?

Regards

Question:

Why do you say that Ketch and I as experts are a joke?


Because neither one of you have ever worked as a working detailer.You both only seeit from the correction side of the business.
You are experts of old technology and products. What I respect about Svr 73 is that when he does correction it is once or twice
to truly restore the paint finish, and uses products that protect and last.

You guys cannot see the clear limitations of wax and polysealants, and the fact that using these products leads to swirl marks and other flaws
like waterspots. Nor can you see the problem when a brand new car requires hours of polishing as shown in Profile Detailer's recent post.
Granted, there may be flaws from the factory, but not on every car.

Ron worked for several manufactures and retired from the car care business. He was a salesman that promoted a process and products.
Although, on one of his posts he said that he recommends Nu Finish to buy if asked. Why? This product does not contain wax, and uses
crosslinking technology. Bud it seems you are looking for the newest product to promote like the BUFFPRO. I have no problem with this product,
and I get the concept. Yes, it removes swirls from a finish, but it does not prevent them from happening again in the future.

You two are the many who continue to push the agenda on to newbies who do not know better. Guys like Tod H post their before and after pics of
swirled paint finished caused by over waxing, polishing, and washing. Then the after pics that show the flawless shine. Personally, I would like to see these cars months later to see what they look like.

The newbies get stars in their eyes, and buy a product suggested by someone on the forum and apply it. It looks awesome at first, but then
the swirls , and haze appear. They wash the vehicle followed by applying a polish, or more wax, This makes the problem worse, so they ask people on the forum how to fix this problem. Always correction is mentioned .

Correction is just fixing a flaw. Protection is preventing the flaw from happening. You and Ron do not have a clue on how to do that. You both consider durability to mean protection which it is clearly not.

Bill you are as wrong about me and my detailing expertise as you are about mist things you post.

I owned and operated 3 detailing businesses, two for over 10 years and another as recently as one year ago. The key word is "operated" which means I worked the stores.

As well I used to train customer staffs at least twice a month for more than 15 years.

As for Ketch you are really blowing smoke.

You should research you statements before making them. As people have said you simply say things and expect people to believe it.

Facts Bill, facts. Data about AT5 from GEM'S website is not fact

Bud

You just have to argue with everyone you do not agree with.Running a detail shop, or selling a product line does not make you a working detailer. I worked for a guy that owned a detail shop and he never did any real work.

Your Quote:

You should research you statements before making them. As people have said you simply say things and expect people to believe it.

You constantly make statements about AT-5 without doing any research, or have any facts on the product. I have applied this product since the early 90's on everything from 2-737 jets to 60 ft boats.


Your Quote:
Facts Bill, facts. Data about AT5 from GEM'S website is not fact

Well how about this one:[www.logisticlean.com]

This company took AT-5 and repackaged it. I have shown you this website several times, but you and ron just ignore it.
This product has been tested by NASA and used by a major airline. It increased fuel efficiency by 1%, and I supervised the
application in Houston Texas. These are real facts for someone who wants to listen.

Bud I am sick of your never ending crap. You and Ron can continue stroking your egos, but enough with your questions.
I f you really wanted to learn something from me that is one thing, but that is clearly not the case. ONCE AGAIN, YOU HAVE
NEVER TRIED OR USED AT-5, SO STOP TALKING LIKE YOU DO.

billd55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Running a detail shop, or selling a
> product line does not make you a working detailer.
>

Oh, but only being able to apply a Teflon paint sealant with 25 year old technology to swirled up vehicles makes you the resident know it all?

Oh, but only being able to apply a Teflon paint sealant with 25 year old technology to swirled up vehicles makes you the resident know it all?

NUT JOB!