What is so great about wax, and correction?

Pro-Skeptic is going nuts and calling me a psycho for my dislike of wax, and the need for correction. Since this is a discussion forum, and not a shine and show one. I would like a very simple answer from the pros out there. If you feel so
deeply that wax and correction is so beneficial to this industry then you should have no problem telling me why you feel the way you do. I have explained my feelings on the matter, and I think it is only fair that you do the same.

Come On

Were is the passion for wax here? Tell me why I should use wax, and where I am wrong?

Funny that Gem's puppet is forgetting the fact that his master also sells a WAX and a COMPOUND. Why don't you ask your creator what his opinion on Wax and paint correction is seeing that you are their little AT-5 zombie.

Funny that Gem's puppet is forgetting the fact that his master also sells a WAX and a COMPOUND


They sure do, and that is there right to do so, but at least they offer a product like AT-5.


Why don't you ask your creator what his opinion on Wax and paint correction is seeing that you are their little AT-5 zombie.

Why ? He will tell you AT-5 is better, but there are real detailers out there that want wax, so he will sell it to them.


Pro-Skeptic

Why do'nt you answer my question? If you love wax so much tell us why? Calling me a zombie and a puppet is not a answer.
You expect answers to your questions , so answer mine, or do not bother asking any more of me.

Maybe this is why you pros out there cannot answer my question.

What is paint correction?

Paint correction refers to the process of removing the imperfections in a vehicle’s finish and restoring it to an, often times, better than new state. These imperfections include but are not limited to, swirl marks or “spider webbing” from circular washing, automated carwashes, fine scratches, water spots, bird dropping etching, holograming caused by inexperienced detailers and the list goes on… Most common practicing detailers will fill fine scratches. In other words, your scratches are hidden and will only be revealed after you wash it several times. The only true way to remove scratches in your vehicle’s paint is with the process of paint correction.


Sealing and Waxing the Vehicle

After all correction has taken place, it is time to seal up the vehicle’s paint to protect it from further scratching. This step however is where some shops try and cover their poor paint correction abilities by using what is known as a “glaze”. Have you ever had your car detailed only to find it looking scratched up a couple weeks later? That is most likely because the detailers used a glaze product. A glaze is a talcum & water based product that is applied to a vehicle’s finish that fills in scratches and gives the appearance of “corrected paint”. Since this product is water based and doesn’t actually bond with the clear coat like wax, it just sits on the surface and after a couple washes or some harsh weather will be completely gone.

Seattle Auto Detailing, Glaze, Not Wax

Unlike glaze, our waxes and sealants are engineered to maintain a protective layer on your paint for several months. There are two main kinds of products we use; polymer-based waxes and natural carnauba waxes. While the synthetic polymer-based waxes will last longer, the natural carnauba waxes are known for giving a deeper shine but don’t last as long. Here is us removing the wax from the QuattroWorld Audi S6! Here at NorthWest Auto Salon we have a wide selection of synthetic polymers or carnauba waxes (We even have Swissvax Crystal Rock an $1100 bottle of wax). When scheduling your appointment, let us know the environmental conditions, mileage, and type of care your car receives to best assess your needs for paint protection. We even have options such as “Stacking” which is 2 coats of protection (First Synthetic Polymer, followed by a wax top-up) giving you the longevity of a sealant, but that fresh look of wax and can last up to a year after your detail!

Seattle Auto Detailing NorthWest Auto Salon : Source for this info above.


My comments:

So paint correction is used to remove imperfections ."These imperfections include but are not limited to, swirl marks or “spider webbing” from circular washing, automated carwashes, fine scratches, water spots, bird dropping etching, holograming caused by inexperienced detailers and the list goes on."


"Unlike glaze, our waxes and sealants are engineered to maintain a protective layer on your paint for several months.A glaze is a talcum & water based product that is applied to a vehicle’s finish that fills in scratches and gives the appearance of “corrected paint”. Since this product is water based and doesn’t actually bond with the clear coat like wax, it just sits on the surface and after a couple washes or some harsh weather will be completely gone".


I guess the above paragraphs say it all. SO WAX BONDS TO THE CLEAR COAT? Sorry that is complete BS.Our waxes and sealants are engineered to maintain a protective layer on your paint for several months. Once again BS. It may prevent
some things from penetration, but things like salt and tree sap there is no way. Also that layer will collect all that crap in it,
and proper washing methods will surely not remove it either. At some point it will have to be removed because it will dull the finish.

SO ONCE AGAIN CAN ONE PERSON EXPLAIN TO ME:What is so great about wax, and correction? The wax/sealants
are suppose to prevent the imperfections which they clearly do not completely do. Also waxes/sealants have to be removed
before a new application can be applied, and they simply cannot be washed off with soap. As a result, a compound may be
needed to fully remove them.


Here is another quote from the website:A common misconception is that once a vehicle has been washed, it is clean. While it may be clean to the naked eye, the surface is often still covered with stubborn contaminants that require an extra step to remove. This step is known as “Clay Bar.” This process is extremely important because if one was to begin polishing before these contaminants were removed then they would be ground into the paint causing scratches or other visible results.

I have heard over and over from you pros that the wax layer does not scratch, it is in the clear coat. This statement makes zero sense. Clearly, it makes sense to clean the surface before polishing to avoid more scratches. Although,some shops try and cover their poor paint correction abilities by using what is known as a “glaze”. If a glaze has the ability to cover
imperfections. Then it makes sense as it wears off it could show new ones that APPEAR to be scratches in the clear, but may not.


That is why I ask this question. If you use either a wax/or sealant which contain wax . Correction will be needed. Washing in itself does not cause these imperfections, using wax does. Blaming it on a dirty wash mit, harsh soap, washing it a certain
way, or soft paint are excuses, not reasons. Are there reasons for the use of correction. Absolutely, but stating to your customers that waxing protects the paint finish, and correction is needed to maintain this protection is overstating the truth
IMO. Anytime you polish a clearcoat you are wearing it down ,and reducing the natural luster. Applying more wax will lead to more polishing, so what the hell is this procedure really doing for protecting the clear coat. I am just dying to know?

Maybe this is why you pros out there cannot answer my question.

What is paint correction?

Paint correction refers to the process of removing the imperfections in a vehicle’s finish and restoring it to an, often times, better than new state. These imperfections include but are not limited to, swirl marks or “spider webbing” from circular washing, automated carwashes, fine scratches, water spots, bird dropping etching, holograming caused by inexperienced detailers and the list goes on… Most common practicing detailers will fill fine scratches. In other words, your scratches are hidden and will only be revealed after you wash it several times. The only true way to remove scratches in your vehicle’s paint is with the process of paint correction.


Sealing and Waxing the Vehicle

After all correction has taken place, it is time to seal up the vehicle’s paint to protect it from further scratching. This step however is where some shops try and cover their poor paint correction abilities by using what is known as a “glaze”. Have you ever had your car detailed only to find it looking scratched up a couple weeks later? That is most likely because the detailers used a glaze product. A glaze is a talcum & water based product that is applied to a vehicle’s finish that fills in scratches and gives the appearance of “corrected paint”. Since this product is water based and doesn’t actually bond with the clear coat like wax, it just sits on the surface and after a couple washes or some harsh weather will be completely gone.

Seattle Auto Detailing, Glaze, Not Wax

Unlike glaze, our waxes and sealants are engineered to maintain a protective layer on your paint for several months. There are two main kinds of products we use; polymer-based waxes and natural carnauba waxes. While the synthetic polymer-based waxes will last longer, the natural carnauba waxes are known for giving a deeper shine but don’t last as long. Here is us removing the wax from the QuattroWorld Audi S6! Here at NorthWest Auto Salon we have a wide selection of synthetic polymers or carnauba waxes (We even have Swissvax Crystal Rock an $1100 bottle of wax). When scheduling your appointment, let us know the environmental conditions, mileage, and type of care your car receives to best assess your needs for paint protection. We even have options such as “Stacking” which is 2 coats of protection (First Synthetic Polymer, followed by a wax top-up) giving you the longevity of a sealant, but that fresh look of wax and can last up to a year after your detail!

Seattle Auto Detailing NorthWest Auto Salon : Source for this info above.


My comments:

So paint correction is used to remove imperfections ."These imperfections include but are not limited to, swirl marks or “spider webbing” from circular washing, automated carwashes, fine scratches, water spots, bird dropping etching, holograming caused by inexperienced detailers and the list goes on."


"Unlike glaze, our waxes and sealants are engineered to maintain a protective layer on your paint for several months.A glaze is a talcum & water based product that is applied to a vehicle’s finish that fills in scratches and gives the appearance of “corrected paint”. Since this product is water based and doesn’t actually bond with the clear coat like wax, it just sits on the surface and after a couple washes or some harsh weather will be completely gone".


I guess the above paragraphs say it all. SO WAX BONDS TO THE CLEAR COAT? Sorry that is complete BS.Our waxes and sealants are engineered to maintain a protective layer on your paint for several months. Once again BS. It may prevent
some things from penetration, but things like salt and tree sap there is no way. Also that layer will collect all that crap in it,
and proper washing methods will surely not remove it either. At some point it will have to be removed because it will dull the finish.

SO ONCE AGAIN CAN ONE PERSON EXPLAIN TO ME:What is so great about wax, and correction? The wax/sealants
are suppose to prevent the imperfections which they clearly do not completely do. Also waxes/sealants have to be removed
before a new application can be applied, and they simply cannot be washed off with soap. As a result, a compound may be
needed to fully remove them.


Here is another quote from the website:A common misconception is that once a vehicle has been washed, it is clean. While it may be clean to the naked eye, the surface is often still covered with stubborn contaminants that require an extra step to remove. This step is known as “Clay Bar.” This process is extremely important because if one was to begin polishing before these contaminants were removed then they would be ground into the paint causing scratches or other visible results.

I have heard over and over from you pros that the wax layer does not scratch, it is in the clear coat. This statement makes zero sense. Clearly, it makes sense to clean the surface before polishing to avoid more scratches. Although,some shops try and cover their poor paint correction abilities by using what is known as a “glaze”. If a glaze has the ability to cover
imperfections. Then it makes sense as it wears off it could show new ones that APPEAR to be scratches in the clear, but may not.


That is why I ask this question. If you use either a wax/or sealant which contain wax . Correction will be needed. Washing in itself does not cause these imperfections, using wax does. Blaming it on a dirty wash mit, harsh soap, washing it a certain
way, or soft paint are excuses, not reasons. Are there reasons for the use of correction. Absolutely, but stating to your customers that waxing protects the paint finish, and correction is needed to maintain this protection is overstating the truth
IMO. Anytime you polish a clearcoat you are wearing it down ,and reducing the natural luster. Applying more wax will lead to more polishing, so what the hell is this procedure really doing for protecting the clear coat. I am just dying to know?

Bill:


I am not aware you are a scientist...so your theory sounds like crazy talk to me....but there is a simple way to validate your claim and prove your theory. You and the manufacturer of AT5 should engage the service of scientists/lab to put your theory to the test..publish the results and lets us know what they found.. until the results are published from a reputable testing company... will you please give it a rest... again if you are so sure of this ....get going so we can all eat humble pie...

Gina

That is what I am doing with Moonlight 46, he will be my test case. He lives in Waco Tx where it gets 100 degrees. He has a black car, and works at a block company. Over time, he can tell us here if my theory is wrong.

I have told him to wash the car with Dawn, and if I am wrong than it should not take long for him to tell.

"You and the manufacturer of AT5 should engage the service of scientists/lab to put your theory to the test..publish the results and lets us know what they found.. until the results are published from a reputable testing company."

This product is basically AT-5 and sold under a different name. I have shown this several times, but no one takes it seriously.


[www.logisticlean.com]

Logisti-Seal has undergone independent, third-party laboratory and operational testing. If you bothered to take a look at it,
you would not continue to make this statement. What else do you want for proof? I supervised the application of AT-5
being applied to 2 737's for initial testing with a major airline in Houston in 2005 which increased the fuel efficiency by 1%
over a year period.

Read this:

Logisti-Seal improves appearance, reduces wash costs, protects against the elements and harsh chemicals, such as magnesium chloride and hydraulic fluid, and assists in reducing fuel burn. Using a revolutionary, environmentally friendly nano technology,

Can waxes or poly sealants do this ? HARDLY.


Look, I really am not talking to you Gina nor the other pros either. I realize you are fixed in your thinking, and nothing I say
and show you will mean a dam. Hopefully , I can get people like Moonlght 46 who come this site for help real advice on how to protect paint.

It really amazes me that not one person can offer some commentary on my question of why they use wax, or why I a wrong.

protect their car.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2011 08:33PM by billd55.

- I have heard over and over from you pros that the wax layer does not scratch, it is in the clear coat. This statement makes zero sense. Clearly, it makes sense to clean the surface before polishing to avoid more scratches.

- This comment makes no sense because the sentences do not relate to each other. What has cleaning the surface before polishing got to do with with saying the wax layer does not scratch?


- Although,some shops try and cover their poor paint correction abilities by using what is known as a “glaze”. If a glaze has the ability to cover
imperfections. Then it makes sense as it wears off it could show new ones that APPEAR to be scratches in the clear, but may not. - This comment makes no sense. If the glaze is filling in scratches, then obviously as the glaze reduces the scratches reappear.


That is why I ask this question. If you use either a wax/or sealant which contain wax . Correction will be needed. - No it won't.

Washing in itself does not cause these imperfections - So a car owner who never uses wax or sealant has a nice crystal finish on the paint? Not in your wildest dreams.


using wax does. Blaming it on a dirty wash mit, harsh soap, washing it a certain way, or soft paint are excuses, not reasons.

- You have got to be kidding, Bill. I get cars in that have not been waxed, sealed or AT-5'd since they left the dealers years ago. How can you say that it is not wash damage. Rubbing paint with a dirty mitt causes scratches, swirls and hazing of the clear coat. Why do you not see that?

Are there reasons for the use of correction. Absolutely, but stating to your customers that waxing protects the paint finish, and correction is needed to maintain this protection is overstating the truth - You are not making sense here. How can correction maintain protection? Who says this?

IMO. Anytime you polish a clearcoat you are wearing it down ,and reducing the natural luster. Applying more wax will lead to more polishing, so what the hell is this procedure really doing for protecting the clear coat. I am just dying to know?

- Natural Lustre... is gone when the car owner starts to use the local car wash - automatic or gimps with brushes, etc. The surface becomes hazed. You think it is better to just leave the paint dull and hazy because you don't want to remove a very minor top-layer of clear-coat? So the owners car rest assured that while they now have a 10 year old ugly, oxidised and scratchy piece of crap outside their door, they know that nobody ever levelled the paint to a high gloss and took away some of the valuable clear coat.

Bill, how much wax or sealant is needed to cover a car? 10 or 15 mls? How much of that is solvent that evaporates upon application? I don't really know but its got to be about 50% or more, depending on the type. So look at exactly how much actual sealant is on a car. Its a microscopically thin layer. It is not thick enough to sustain a visible mark.

I have said it before - I do a thorough decontamination of paint before each polishing to remove everything including old wax or sealant. The scratches and marks never diminish.

"Logisti-Seal improves appearance, reduces wash costs, protects against the elements and harsh chemicals, such as magnesium chloride and hydraulic fluid, and assists in reducing fuel burn. Using a revolutionary, environmentally friendly nano technology,
Can waxes or poly sealants do this ? HARDLY."

Why not?
Waxes and sealants improve appearance - CHECK
Reduce wash costs -CHECK
Protects against the elements and harsh chemicals such as magnesium chloride and hydraulic fluid - CHECK
and assists in reducing fuel burn - CHECK
Using a revolutionary, environmentally friendly nano technology - CHECK

Bill you are the one who is fixed in your thinking. I mean just have an objective look at the application of AT5 on Boeing jets - what are they going to do, remove AT5 and then try a couple of other sealants? What did they check it against? How anyone can say something has a saving of 1% on anything that is operated mechanically is clutching at straws. That is not definitive to rational person as even a slight change in wind, temperature or other environmental factors will affect fuel by a percentage.

Look, what you are saying about AT5 being durable might be correct. But PAINT gets damaged and marked regardless of the product used on it. We can see that in your videos where the cars are obviously accruing wash-damage and swirls. People who do not like dull paint so they hopefully give it to somebody good to polish it and level it back to a high gloss. You don't like correction, so you prefer dull finishes that have protection on board. That is your prerogative. My clients prefer glossy cars.

This comment makes no sense because the sentences do not relate to each other. What has cleaning the surface before polishing got to do with with saying the wax layer does not scratch?

Nothing. Read the paragraph in it's context.


That is why I ask this question. If you use either a wax/or sealant which contain wax . Correction will be needed. - No it won't.

Profile, so your telling me that if I use wax I will never need correction? What are you smoking these days to believe that is true.


Washing in itself does not cause these imperfections - So a car owner who never uses wax or sealant has a nice crystal finish on the paint? Not in your wildest dreams.

You seem to be implying something I never said. What I said was that the washing breaks the wax down that causes the imperfections that appear to be scratches.


Bill. I get cars in that have not been waxed, sealed or AT-5'd since they left the dealers years ago. How can you say that it is not wash damage. Rubbing paint with a dirty mitt causes scratches, swirls and hazing of the clear coat. Why do you not see that?


First, how do you know that they have not been waxed? Do you ask the owners?Why do you assume everyone washes their car with a dirty wash mit?


You are not making sense here. How can correction maintain protection? Who says this?

Once again follow my thought. If you use wax than you will need correction at some time. I am not saying correction maintains protection, but to keep wax applied properly correction will be needed.



- Natural Lustre... is gone when the car owner starts to use the local car wash - automatic or gimps with brushes, etc. The surface becomes hazed. You think it is better to just leave the paint dull and hazy because you don't want to remove a very minor top-layer of clear-coat? So the owners car rest assured that while they now have a 10 year old ugly, oxidised and scratchy piece of crap outside their door, they know that nobody ever levelled the paint to a high gloss and took away some of the valuable clear coat


I showed a video of a 11 year old lexas that had never been waxed, and was washed in car washes. It was not xidised and scratchy piece of crap outside their door. Really you make alot of assumptions .
[www.youtube.com]

So look at exactly how much actual sealant is on a car. Its a microscopically thin layer. It is not thick enough to sustain a visible mark.

But it is enough to cover up swirl marks for a short time.


I have said it before - I do a thorough decontamination of paint before each polishing to remove everything including old wax or sealant. The scratches and marks never diminish.

So what is your point? You remove all the old wax , and some scratches and marks do not go away. I never said all scratches are caused by wax.

Protects against the elements and harsh chemicals such as magnesium chloride and hydraulic fluid - CHECK

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND! For a second MAYBE.

Waxes and sealants improve appearance - CHECK

They will not for a year

and assists in reducing fuel burn - CHECK

For a year? Not likely. At-5 was tested for 1 year.

Bill you are the one who is fixed in your thinking. I mean just have an objective look at the application of AT5 on Boeing jets - what are they going to do, remove AT5 and then try a couple of other sealants? What did they check it against? How anyone can say something has a saving of 1% on anything that is operated mechanically is clutching at straws. That is not definitive to rational person as even a slight change in wind, temperature or other environmental factors will affect fuel by a percentage

First, this airline monitors these airplanes to a finite amount. They know exactly how much fuel they use on every trip.
They compared data from not treated , and treated over a year . That is why American Airlines is using it now.

But PAINT gets damaged and marked regardless of the product used on it. We can see that in your videos where the cars are obviously accruing wash-damage and swirls.

Sure it does. You can see it in my videos what you want to see, but there is no accruing wash-damage and swirls. in my
Jeep and Tahoe videos.

You don't like correction, so you prefer dull finishes that have protection on board. That is your prerogative. My clients prefer glossy cars.


Actually , what you say shows your bias clearly. I do not prefer dull finishes, and my clients what a glossy car with real protection. They can have it without your correction cost , and go to a car wash without the fear of washing there expensive
waxing off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2011 02:20AM by billd55.

If wax is so great , and protects so well. Than how is it that a simple dish soap can remove it in one or two washings?
What makes a bottle of wax worth $1,100, nothing but hype. Will that expensive product do anything more than a $60.
wax will that makes it worth that much more in value? I think not.

I personally think you should have all the facts when you make a decision. People come to these forums for direction
when they get a new car. They are all hyped to protect it and make it shiny. Nothing is wrong with that .

What really gets me upset is when I see posts from people with new cars who have waxed them and have water spots
and swirls. Now, they want help on how remove them, and of course it always involves some form of correction which
normally they cannot do themselves.

Some detailers are better at correction than others, but the facts are that there is no real way to determine that from a consumers point of view. Why does detailing have to be so complicated? The reason is wax/sealants. If you use them
than swirls and other problems will happen.

Here is a quote from Micheal Stoops from Meguiar's on this matter:


Bonded contaminants will happen over time and even with limited exposure you just never know what oddball thing might happen. Swirls are inevitable, although you can drastically minimize the creation of new swirls by being very diligent in your washing and drying process since this is when most swirls are formed. But with proper routine washings, proper use of a quick detailer to remove light fallout before it has a chance to bond, and waxing regularly like you currently are, you're putting yourself way ahead of the game.


Over time crap will trap itself in the wax, and proper washings and quick detailer will not be the answer either. Then what do you do then?

Both make me and others alot of money ......no sense explaining bill your too thick ...
Wow and i thought that old you tube guy MASTER DETAILER from florida was the ulimate dumbass.

Both make me and others alot of money ......no sense explaining bill your too thick ...
Wow and i thought that old you tube guy MASTER DETAILER from florida was the ulimate dumba


Well, you can see from Profile Detailer answer it is all about money for him. Really there is no other explanation fpr it than that.Insults are the only thing they can come back with when they cannot dispute one thing I am saying.

You all wonder why this business is where it is at, and this is a clear example why. You correction detailers think you are offering this valuable service that everyone needs which is pure crap. You have this disillusion that what you do is a service
to your customers which is pure BS.

When I talked to Moonlight 46 he did not go to the detail job because he did not want a buffer on it. Smart move. If you were concerned about protecting your customers paint finish you would be more receptive to what I say. Todd H said he was going to try AT-5, but that was pure lip service. Clearly, you have a nice little racket going on that people are buying into.

Well, it is about time someone stands up and tells the real truth of what wax and correction is truly all about.

Profile Detailer quote:

Wow and i thought that old you tube guy MASTER DETAILER from florida was the ultimate dumb ass

Well I checked this guy out on U-Tube, and I must say that this correction detailer is a far better and honest .
than Profile will ever be. I can see exactly why he thinks this guy is a dumb ass, and if you watch his video you will see towards the end why.


[www.youtube.com]


This video provides good info, and shows a proper way to remove a real scratch . This is what correction is for IMO.
I am not sure about the sealer product he uses, but at least he gets the concept about wax. He admits he is one of a few
detailers .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2011 03:26PM by billd55.

Bill, you have lost it. I never said anything untoward there and you are accusing me of being dishonest and inferior. I am very offended and that ends any future contributions that I have in your posts.

Pretty soon you might as well just type on a word document and save it because nobody shares your odd perspective and people are tired of you banging on about your thwarted on what is or is not damaged paint, and your back-tracking and rationalising. That is why nobody posts here anymore. Its like trying to enjoy a drink in a bar where there is a crazy in the corner shouting conspiracy theory at everyone.

That is all. Goodbye Bill.

Quote:

I never said anything untoward there and you are accusing me of being dishonest and inferior. I am very offended and that ends any future contributions that I have in your posts.

I never called you a dumbass either, and as I have said before I am not speaking to you anyways.

billd55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> They sure do, and that is there right to do so,
> but at least they offer a product like AT-5.
>
> there are real detailers out there that want wax, so he
> will sell it to them.
>
>



One minute you state that you're not a "real" detailer if you use wax and then the next minute you contradict yourself in a failed attempt to protect your leader. Which is it Bill? Make up your mind. Wax can't be all that bad if GEM sells it right?? Oh, I guess because their wax contains Teflon like AT-5 then it makes it ok huh??? You're logic is disintegrating with every word you type....

Plenty of detailers want interior cleaner and car wash soap too, but he doesn't sell these products? Funny how he considers himself a chemical manufacturer, but only sells wax, sealant, polishing compounds and interior fragrances? That’s got to be one of the strangest arrays of products I’ve ever come across? Makes me think he’s really not a chemical manufacturer too?

Pro-Skeptic

Why is it you demand answers from me, but you get a pass on mine?


One minute you state that you're not a "real" detailer if you use wax and then the next minute you contradict yourself in a failed attempt to protect your leader. Which is it Bill? Make up your mind. Wax can't be all that bad if GEM sells it right?? Oh, I guess


Look I do not work for Gem , and they are not my leader. Your rational on this question really shows how smart you are not.
Because Gem sells wax I am contradicting myself? This my opinion , not Gem's. Because they sell wax really has little bearing on anything you are saying.

Plenty of detailers want interior cleaner and car wash soap too, but he doesn't sell these products? Funny how he considers himself a chemical manufacturer, but only sells wax, sealant, polishing compounds and interior fragrances? That’s got to be one of the strangest arrays of products I’ve ever come across? Makes me think he’s really not a chemical manufacturer too?

This statement is why I call you Pro-Skeptic.

billd55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> Look I do not work for Gem , .


Liar. They told me that you tried becoming a distributor for their products but failed miserably. We all know exactly why you have such a hard on for these people.

Liar. They told me that you tried becoming a distributor for their products but failed miserably. We all know exactly why you have such a hard on for these people.


Look asshole I do not appreciate being called a liar! You are a rude jerk, and I have enough your crap. You have never
called Gem , and I know that for a fact. I am done with you.

billd55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liar. They told me that you tried becoming a
> distributor for their products but failed
> miserably. We all know exactly why you have such a
> hard on for these people.
>
>
> Look asshole I do not appreciate being called a
> liar! You are a rude jerk, and I have enough your
> crap. You have never
> called Gem , and I know that for a fact. I am done
> with you.


You wouldn't know what a fact was even if you had one shoved up your ass. I had a long conversation with Richard almost 2 weeks ago. And he spilled the beans about you and your business relationship.

Anyone wanting a real kick should call this dillusional nutsack and get his rendition on car care and how his orbital polisher (aka wax spreader) with cotton bonnet can correct paint by not creating unsafe heat. Another product and way of thinking that is ancient.

Here is an example of bills thickness...There are 3 members with pro at the beginning of their names, bill got confused again as usual and blamed profile for calling him a thick dumbass ...lol
Bill i was referring to master detailer from many years ago who was banned on you tube not this guy.The old guy went around burning head lights with his rotary and put some special sealant on used by airplane companies i think he said hmm maybe at5 lol
Ketch and bud surely remember his videos.

Quoting Bill :
"Look asshole I do not appreciate being called a liar! You are a rude jerk, and I have enough your crap. You have never
called Gem , and I know that for a fact. I am done with you. "
-Bill D above-

Is this sort of vulgarity and name-calling acceptable on any forum ?
Doug

Martin wright aka the master detailer may of been a little old school in his methods but the guy could polish cars very well considering he had parkinsons

I never saw him damage headlights and my god he could remove scratches from modern car paint brilliantly. ok he should of used a block most often but hey, no big deal

RIP Martin

Bill - cars require correction a few times in their lifespan, sometimes several.
Removing 1 to 10 microns out of say 80 to 200 microns for most cars is no big deal.

Though I do agree with you that it is good to stop correcting at some point and just fill in the damage with the products I've mentioned before and keep it protected with permanon aircraft supershine or some other product. heck even a scratch resistant glass coating from Japan or USA

There is a new one being released that will be the most scratch resistant in history. stay tuned