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Ron's reality
Posted by billd55
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Ron's reality February 04, 2012 02:56PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
[www.autopia.org]
Quote from Ron about me:
Cause his agenda is only his, he lives in "his" world and the rest of us, no matter how many years of operating a professional business, are just in his agenda's way.
Who knows if anything he posts has any real base of reality.
Grumpy
(Another case for more bleach in the gene pool!)
This is what you get in Ron's world of reality . Color sanding a brand new 2011 black car that has not even been sold yet,
and then putting the very same thing that caused the problem in the first place on it again.
Quote from post:
Once we checked the readings we determined what steps we were going to do. The sanding process was carried out with a Trizact Sander, starting with 1,500 dry, 3,000 wet, and finished with 4,000 wet. 4-5 steps were used in bringing the paint back to life. The car was topped with a coat of Crystal Rock, and the two others I have been testing.
Most here look at this post as business opportunity, and have zero interest in what caused this damage or how to prevent it.
Would any one here want their new car to look this way?Notice the dealer discounted the price to move the car. Is it logical to wet sand a car this new?
I come on this forum to show detailers a solution to this problem , and this is what I get :Another case for more bleach in the gene pool!) . With Ron's years of experience why can he not show anyone here any solution to this problem but correction.
Professionals solve problems, and hacks just cover them up. Sure this car looks great now, but when that crystal wax wears off then the truth will come out. Guess who will see evidence? Your customers.
Quote from Ron about me:
Cause his agenda is only his, he lives in "his" world and the rest of us, no matter how many years of operating a professional business, are just in his agenda's way.
Who knows if anything he posts has any real base of reality.
Grumpy
(Another case for more bleach in the gene pool!)
This is what you get in Ron's world of reality . Color sanding a brand new 2011 black car that has not even been sold yet,
and then putting the very same thing that caused the problem in the first place on it again.
Quote from post:
Once we checked the readings we determined what steps we were going to do. The sanding process was carried out with a Trizact Sander, starting with 1,500 dry, 3,000 wet, and finished with 4,000 wet. 4-5 steps were used in bringing the paint back to life. The car was topped with a coat of Crystal Rock, and the two others I have been testing.
Most here look at this post as business opportunity, and have zero interest in what caused this damage or how to prevent it.
Would any one here want their new car to look this way?Notice the dealer discounted the price to move the car. Is it logical to wet sand a car this new?
I come on this forum to show detailers a solution to this problem , and this is what I get :Another case for more bleach in the gene pool!) . With Ron's years of experience why can he not show anyone here any solution to this problem but correction.
Professionals solve problems, and hacks just cover them up. Sure this car looks great now, but when that crystal wax wears off then the truth will come out. Guess who will see evidence? Your customers.
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Re: Ron's reality February 04, 2012 03:53PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 04, 2012 10:26PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 05, 2012 12:26AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
No, just that your first quote is from me.
The second one is not me, as that person is referring to the use of a 3M system, which I did test, but never publicly issued any observation or evaluation of the system.
For one thing, despite having access to most major brands of sanding papers, never used or requested 4000 grit paper.
As far as your posting that I "never done cars, etc", I was doing all the body work, painting, detailing (before it was called detailing) while long ago.
First time with a paint gun was when I was 7, first time with a "buffer" which were not available back in the early 50's, was in reality a "grinder that operated at 5,000RPM.
I was building, which means changing motors, etc, welding, running lead, all the paint processes, etc by the time I was 14.
I will be 68 later this month, which translates to 54 years of being in this industry.
The people I have worked with, consulted with, trained me, etc are a list that any one who knows jack about bodywork, painting, detailing, etc will know.
These people range from Boyd Cottington and his main metail man, Roy Johnson, to Daryl Starbird. When I was 18, I did the painting of Don Garlit's Swamp Rat AA/F dragster.
I was priviledged to be National Sales and Marketing Manager for Finish Kare Products from 1987 to 1994, which I left to become Director of Sales and Technical Services for Automotive International.
In both posistions, my clients were all the vehicle manufacturers, both domestic and import, working with their paint, trim, interior and corrosion engineers.
I flew around the world to many of the assembly plants, port processors, port operations, dealerships, area Parts and Service offices, to aid in or resolve paint/trim and corrosion concerns.
In 1996, I took a training course that Automotive International had been providing and restructured it to meet the requirements of Ford, Chrysler, Mazda, Nissan, Hyundia, Kia, Mitsubisi, Driver's Mart (later AutoNation), etc.
In these courses, held once a month at AI's headquarters (where I had my own 5000 sq ft dedicated training facility) I trained in excess of 300 students each year for 12 years.
In 1996, Chrysler Canada requested that I develope and impliment a "hands on" training course for dealerships across Canada, during which I presented the course to 80% if their dealership body, educating and training in excess of 500 individuals.
Of course to do such, required that "I did hands on demostrations of each step of the physical processes, etc.
What have you done in your time of working at the detailing process, other than tout a product and piss everyone off, Bill?
Grumpy
That is my back ground.
The second one is not me, as that person is referring to the use of a 3M system, which I did test, but never publicly issued any observation or evaluation of the system.
For one thing, despite having access to most major brands of sanding papers, never used or requested 4000 grit paper.
As far as your posting that I "never done cars, etc", I was doing all the body work, painting, detailing (before it was called detailing) while long ago.
First time with a paint gun was when I was 7, first time with a "buffer" which were not available back in the early 50's, was in reality a "grinder that operated at 5,000RPM.
I was building, which means changing motors, etc, welding, running lead, all the paint processes, etc by the time I was 14.
I will be 68 later this month, which translates to 54 years of being in this industry.
The people I have worked with, consulted with, trained me, etc are a list that any one who knows jack about bodywork, painting, detailing, etc will know.
These people range from Boyd Cottington and his main metail man, Roy Johnson, to Daryl Starbird. When I was 18, I did the painting of Don Garlit's Swamp Rat AA/F dragster.
I was priviledged to be National Sales and Marketing Manager for Finish Kare Products from 1987 to 1994, which I left to become Director of Sales and Technical Services for Automotive International.
In both posistions, my clients were all the vehicle manufacturers, both domestic and import, working with their paint, trim, interior and corrosion engineers.
I flew around the world to many of the assembly plants, port processors, port operations, dealerships, area Parts and Service offices, to aid in or resolve paint/trim and corrosion concerns.
In 1996, I took a training course that Automotive International had been providing and restructured it to meet the requirements of Ford, Chrysler, Mazda, Nissan, Hyundia, Kia, Mitsubisi, Driver's Mart (later AutoNation), etc.
In these courses, held once a month at AI's headquarters (where I had my own 5000 sq ft dedicated training facility) I trained in excess of 300 students each year for 12 years.
In 1996, Chrysler Canada requested that I develope and impliment a "hands on" training course for dealerships across Canada, during which I presented the course to 80% if their dealership body, educating and training in excess of 500 individuals.
Of course to do such, required that "I did hands on demostrations of each step of the physical processes, etc.
What have you done in your time of working at the detailing process, other than tout a product and piss everyone off, Bill?
Grumpy
That is my back ground.
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Re: Ron's reality February 05, 2012 02:28AM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
Quote from Ron:
Of course to do such, required that "I did hands on demostrations of each step of the physical processes, etc.
What have you done in your time of working at the detailing process, other than tout a product and piss everyone off, Bill?
Grumpy
That is my back ground.
Ron
I do not see one bit of experience related to operating a detail business. Correct me if I a wrong. Having experience painting cars does not make you a detailer, nor does selling products to wholesalers either IMO. How many complete details on vehicles have you personally done yourself? How many boats have you done? How many aircraft have you done?
When have you ever worked for a client who actually owned the vehicle.
Well I have done hundreds of cars and boats over the years, and at least I have posted examples of my experience. First,
I did not come here to tout a product as you call it. I came here to solve a very common problem. If my premise makes you mad then that is your problem.
I am aware of Finish Kare Products, and a company I worked for used your sealant products. IMO they are no better, or no less then all the others. They provide a temp shine, and no real protection to speak of.
I spent 20 years using and testing a product line that really works as far as protection goes. I realize that is complete
useless info in your mind, Your problem is you have zero experience working as a detailer, and no experience with the general public.
Quote:
What have you done in your time of working at the detailing process
Well, I have helped many people avoid swirl marks, and damage issues. I have saved them a lot of money not spent
on removing waxes and correcting flaws, and after 10 years they still have a clear coat left.
I could have prevented this issue on this black 2011 Cad completely because I have done it. With all your experience that you mention what could you offer to prevent this swirl issue from happening ?
Of course to do such, required that "I did hands on demostrations of each step of the physical processes, etc.
What have you done in your time of working at the detailing process, other than tout a product and piss everyone off, Bill?
Grumpy
That is my back ground.
Ron
I do not see one bit of experience related to operating a detail business. Correct me if I a wrong. Having experience painting cars does not make you a detailer, nor does selling products to wholesalers either IMO. How many complete details on vehicles have you personally done yourself? How many boats have you done? How many aircraft have you done?
When have you ever worked for a client who actually owned the vehicle.
Well I have done hundreds of cars and boats over the years, and at least I have posted examples of my experience. First,
I did not come here to tout a product as you call it. I came here to solve a very common problem. If my premise makes you mad then that is your problem.
I am aware of Finish Kare Products, and a company I worked for used your sealant products. IMO they are no better, or no less then all the others. They provide a temp shine, and no real protection to speak of.
I spent 20 years using and testing a product line that really works as far as protection goes. I realize that is complete
useless info in your mind, Your problem is you have zero experience working as a detailer, and no experience with the general public.
Quote:
What have you done in your time of working at the detailing process
Well, I have helped many people avoid swirl marks, and damage issues. I have saved them a lot of money not spent
on removing waxes and correcting flaws, and after 10 years they still have a clear coat left.
I could have prevented this issue on this black 2011 Cad completely because I have done it. With all your experience that you mention what could you offer to prevent this swirl issue from happening ?
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Re: Ron's reality February 05, 2012 05:10PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
I did full details, etc from 1956 until now! (not so much now, for a 68 I have other things I like to do in addition to details)
One does that when they started doing bodywork, build customs, auto painting, etc as a young man.
Also worked in High School for not only some bodyshops, but Great Lakes Boat Company, where I did fiberglas repair and detailed trade-in's
While living in Central Illinois and working for a major consumer product company, started racing SCCA, and set up a private side business of detailing, paint touch up, etc to aid in paying for the racing-did aprox 3 to 5 cars a week for 5 years.=1,000 cars easily.
When I lived in the KC area, had a small, side business of detailing/touch body work. Did this to support my new hobby of campaigning in the AMA mx series, where I carried a national number, plus was still building my personal cars. This was an "on and off" sort of busines of detailing, not a regular, but would put the number of vehicles, boats, etc in a period of 1972 to 1986 at no less than 250 a year=3,500 vehicles/boats.
Number of car details in the my life time, done personally by me, since 1956? Would have to guess, but in the upper thousands.
Number of vehicles I supervised as an owner or manager, detailed, would be in the upper 10's of thousands of vehicles.
At Automotive International there is a subsidary business to the ValuGard Products, it is ValuGard Auto Processing, where dealers throughout Cincinnati either bring or have the auto transports drop off new vehicles for predelivery of the them or they bring their used vehicles for cosmetic reconditioning, plus private individuals have their vehicles detailed-the facility does varying volume of vehicles per year, however on average of 1,000 per month, and has done so for since the late 80's. I was the Vice President of Operations of that unit and was well known for jumping in and getting my hands dirty, teaching, mentoring, all that a good manager does.
Being that while at Automotive International I had my own facility for testing and training, would often take friends and their vehicles to it on a weekend and we would detail their personal vehicle, for free, just good to keep one's hand's on skills up to snuff and I enjoyed it as well.
When at Finish Kare, two of my personal clients were Ford and Chrysler's new vehicle prep centers, three Ford, one Chrysler, plus all the imports port processors. FK was a main chemical supplier to these operations.
While the new car prep centers main focus was new car prep, they also did the reconditioning of thousands of used vehicles which came off lease, buybacks, etc.
I would often work hands on, side by side with their personel to resolve concerns of some vehicles, develope new products to meet special needs,
etc.
How many vehicles did I personally "touch/work on"?
That is very difficult to put a number to, however can say that the Ford facility in Mira Loma ran two shifts a day, 5 days a week on average and each shift put out in excess of 350 vehicles per shift+700 vehicles a day+3,500 per week.
Those numbers do not include work I personally performed at Mazda's, Nissan's, Volvo's, Jaquar's, Toyota's, Honda's,Hyundai's, and other's port processors or their dealerships where they would send me in to resolve issues that the dealer's prep people may have been experiencing.
As far as boats? FK has a marine line, a frp line as well, and the frp line was used in manufacturing plants for fiberglas boats such as SeaRay, Egg Harbor, Four Winns, Cobalt, Ranger, and many others. This often required my going to the plants to train employees on tooling mold prep, application of release products, correction of mold marks in the parts, etc. Did this in addition to my automotive product duties.
FK's marine line is Big White, which I did have responsibility for, and my main clients were West Marine and it's stores, USBoat and their stores.
As a result, would often be taken into the field by store personel to work with boat detailers to resolve concerns they may be having.
In short, I have done every kind and size of boat from 10 foot aluminum john boats to 110 ft Vikings.
How do I put a number of vehicles. boats, motorcycles, big rigs, etc that is any where accurate on paper, after close to 56 years of detailing?
Would have guess I have detailed or as we pro's refer to it "touched" in excess of 100,000 vehicles, personally.
Does that answer your questions, Bill?
One does that when they started doing bodywork, build customs, auto painting, etc as a young man.
Also worked in High School for not only some bodyshops, but Great Lakes Boat Company, where I did fiberglas repair and detailed trade-in's
While living in Central Illinois and working for a major consumer product company, started racing SCCA, and set up a private side business of detailing, paint touch up, etc to aid in paying for the racing-did aprox 3 to 5 cars a week for 5 years.=1,000 cars easily.
When I lived in the KC area, had a small, side business of detailing/touch body work. Did this to support my new hobby of campaigning in the AMA mx series, where I carried a national number, plus was still building my personal cars. This was an "on and off" sort of busines of detailing, not a regular, but would put the number of vehicles, boats, etc in a period of 1972 to 1986 at no less than 250 a year=3,500 vehicles/boats.
Number of car details in the my life time, done personally by me, since 1956? Would have to guess, but in the upper thousands.
Number of vehicles I supervised as an owner or manager, detailed, would be in the upper 10's of thousands of vehicles.
At Automotive International there is a subsidary business to the ValuGard Products, it is ValuGard Auto Processing, where dealers throughout Cincinnati either bring or have the auto transports drop off new vehicles for predelivery of the them or they bring their used vehicles for cosmetic reconditioning, plus private individuals have their vehicles detailed-the facility does varying volume of vehicles per year, however on average of 1,000 per month, and has done so for since the late 80's. I was the Vice President of Operations of that unit and was well known for jumping in and getting my hands dirty, teaching, mentoring, all that a good manager does.
Being that while at Automotive International I had my own facility for testing and training, would often take friends and their vehicles to it on a weekend and we would detail their personal vehicle, for free, just good to keep one's hand's on skills up to snuff and I enjoyed it as well.
When at Finish Kare, two of my personal clients were Ford and Chrysler's new vehicle prep centers, three Ford, one Chrysler, plus all the imports port processors. FK was a main chemical supplier to these operations.
While the new car prep centers main focus was new car prep, they also did the reconditioning of thousands of used vehicles which came off lease, buybacks, etc.
I would often work hands on, side by side with their personel to resolve concerns of some vehicles, develope new products to meet special needs,
etc.
How many vehicles did I personally "touch/work on"?
That is very difficult to put a number to, however can say that the Ford facility in Mira Loma ran two shifts a day, 5 days a week on average and each shift put out in excess of 350 vehicles per shift+700 vehicles a day+3,500 per week.
Those numbers do not include work I personally performed at Mazda's, Nissan's, Volvo's, Jaquar's, Toyota's, Honda's,Hyundai's, and other's port processors or their dealerships where they would send me in to resolve issues that the dealer's prep people may have been experiencing.
As far as boats? FK has a marine line, a frp line as well, and the frp line was used in manufacturing plants for fiberglas boats such as SeaRay, Egg Harbor, Four Winns, Cobalt, Ranger, and many others. This often required my going to the plants to train employees on tooling mold prep, application of release products, correction of mold marks in the parts, etc. Did this in addition to my automotive product duties.
FK's marine line is Big White, which I did have responsibility for, and my main clients were West Marine and it's stores, USBoat and their stores.
As a result, would often be taken into the field by store personel to work with boat detailers to resolve concerns they may be having.
In short, I have done every kind and size of boat from 10 foot aluminum john boats to 110 ft Vikings.
How do I put a number of vehicles. boats, motorcycles, big rigs, etc that is any where accurate on paper, after close to 56 years of detailing?
Would have guess I have detailed or as we pro's refer to it "touched" in excess of 100,000 vehicles, personally.
Does that answer your questions, Bill?
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Re: Ron's reality February 06, 2012 01:17AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
Ketch
You certainly do not have to justify yourself to anyone in this industry. Those of us who are active in the industry, worldwide as you have been, do not need to validate your qualifications.
What we need to know is what qualifies Bill the Buffer to pontificate about anything in the industry. We only know what he says about himself, I have never found anyone here who can substantiate anything Bill says about himself.
My good friend in Naples met with him and was not impressed with his knowledge.
Ketch, you are the man and anyone who knows anything in this industry knows that.
Regards
Bud Abraham
You certainly do not have to justify yourself to anyone in this industry. Those of us who are active in the industry, worldwide as you have been, do not need to validate your qualifications.
What we need to know is what qualifies Bill the Buffer to pontificate about anything in the industry. We only know what he says about himself, I have never found anyone here who can substantiate anything Bill says about himself.
My good friend in Naples met with him and was not impressed with his knowledge.
Ketch, you are the man and anyone who knows anything in this industry knows that.
Regards
Bud Abraham
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Re: Ron's reality February 06, 2012 02:34AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 06, 2012 02:43AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
Gina
You are correct about our friend Buffer Bill. Keep in mind the majorty of those on the forum are intelligent enough to determine what Bill's agenda is and ignore what he posts for what it is.
Paul is around, but his philosophy is to not micro-moderate the forum allowing the detailers and suppliers who post here to moderate the forum ourselves. I think this is what makes this a good forum.
America is a country where you have the right to express your opinion. We may not agree with what is said, but we do have to defend a person's right to express it.
What those here must do is ignore those posts that bother them. I know I post a great many things that bother people and they can ignore the post or comment. As long as their posts are not vulgar, terribly personal they have the right to post them.
How is your business? All is well? You coming to the Car Wash Show in Las Vegas? They changed the name from Car Care World Expo to the Car Wash Show which is what it is.
Regards
Bud Abraham
You are correct about our friend Buffer Bill. Keep in mind the majorty of those on the forum are intelligent enough to determine what Bill's agenda is and ignore what he posts for what it is.
Paul is around, but his philosophy is to not micro-moderate the forum allowing the detailers and suppliers who post here to moderate the forum ourselves. I think this is what makes this a good forum.
America is a country where you have the right to express your opinion. We may not agree with what is said, but we do have to defend a person's right to express it.
What those here must do is ignore those posts that bother them. I know I post a great many things that bother people and they can ignore the post or comment. As long as their posts are not vulgar, terribly personal they have the right to post them.
How is your business? All is well? You coming to the Car Wash Show in Las Vegas? They changed the name from Car Care World Expo to the Car Wash Show which is what it is.
Regards
Bud Abraham
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Re: Ron's reality February 06, 2012 05:28PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
Quote from Bud:
What we need to know is what qualifies Bill the Buffer to pontificate about anything in the industry. We only know what he says about himself, I have never found anyone here who can substantiate anything Bill says about himself
Oh yeah:
AT-5
December 30, 2011 08:27PM Registered: 8 weeks ago
Posts: 8
I just wanted to let everyone on this form know about AT-5. I recieved a sample of this product from Billd55 about a week ago I couldn't apply it until today because of rain and cold weather and I am please to report that this product is just truely AMAZING!!!!! The shine is like looking in a mirror I have used wax and polishes for over 30 years and I can truthfully say I have never seen a wax or polish produce a shine like AT-5 does. It was easy to apply I did my car in about 3 hrs from wash to finish the product comes off as easy as it applies just make you do it in the shade or early in the morning when it's cool and you want have any problem I used a wax remover to get rid of the old wax and so the sealer would bond to the clear coat and now I have a shine I am proud of. Billd55 you have a great product thank you. So for all you doubter out there all I can say is just try AT-5 and see for yourself. P.S.HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYBODY
Quote from Gina
Most people are so turned off... they would never buy the product just to spite him.... Opinions vary
AT-5!!! - I WANT SOME!!!
From: James4:7
To: billd55
08/28/2011 04:27PM
Hey Bill, Love your videos on YouTube and a fan of using different kinds of sealants. Tried the Gem industries site to purchase some, no way to buy. Called the phone number, Guy directed me to wholesalecarcare.com But then it had all products except AT-5!!! I believe this product can deliver, but why is it so hard to get. So can you help direct me in the right direction. Is there a walk-in store location near San Diego (where I live) or a NO BS, NO RUNAROUND website I can go to? THANK YOU. I highly value your opinion, as your professionalism and wisdom in this subject can be seen in your YouTube videos!!!
AT-5
From: rjhartman04
To: billd55
05/30/2010 10:38PM
Hi Bill,
I wanted to say you are right on on my opinion, I think some of these guys just want to sale their product and give unfounded and unexperianced testimony.
The AT-5 you speak of, how would you say it does on high gloss shine any color vehicle like reds and blacks against Zaino?
Where and how can I get this AT-5 to try?
How many exteriors can I complete per package size?
Again hang in there and keep the knoweldge leading the forum.
Regards,
Rick
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Quote from Bud:
We only know what he says about himself, I have never found anyone here who can substantiate anything Bill says about himself
Well let's see what other people in the biz say about you Bud:
The humor of the reply flew over your head @ "Mach .3", more "Thought provoking gems of wisdom from the "Carwash King," here are a few I thought might be better from the great "Boodah"
1. Do you spend most of your time trying get your customers car dislodged from the track of your "State of the art tunnelwash"?
2. How much time do you spend online trying to get cases of "Pine scent" mirror hangers by the case?.
3. The cotton rags are not that bad for your customers finish, as your guys only drop the towels "Occasionally" on the ground
4. Bubblgum machines in the customer lounge are "Moneymakers" behind sales of "Porkrhinds"
5. A 20% damage rate to your customers cars are "Acceptable" ratios in the "Carwash industry"
6. You can make back your ROI "With the quickness" as long as you have a 90% of "Entry level" guys "Employed" at any one time, as someone has to hire these guys as Obama needs those unemployment numbers to spike as why should 3rd world countries beat America in this regard
7. Reclaimed water is a "Green aspect" of your operation.......AlGore says so...........and that's a fact
8. Carwash owners have lot's of time off for vacations, as minimum wagers need no supervision.....place practically runs itself
9. "Penny saver" newspapers are the "Poo"
10. The above "Bullitt points" are "Revolutionary" in the industry
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Bob Willis
Serving the Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche community
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JPostal
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I fear that I might come across as a Buda supporter and be blacklisted by writing this but here it goes...
I understand that most you guys disagree/dislike buda's posts because of the way he comes across and his disconect from Autopian style detailing, but the questions he asked in this post are worth thinking about for people who detail for a living (even though the questions are not ground breaking). Buda might not be the greatest detailer (or a detailer at all actually...I've never seen any of his work), but my guess is that he has more experience than most of us in running a business. This was posted in the pro detailer general discussion forum and in my opinion deserves some discussion because at the end of the day we have to be profitable. We will debate for hours about what the best glass cleaner/tire dressing/sealant is, but we can't spend a few minutes thinking about, and discussing our business? Really?
Ron Ketcham
Ron Ketcham is online now
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Two great response posts.
Bud has years and years of operating businesses that are part of the detailing industry.
Successfully, I may add.
Bud and I have butted heads over the years on various issues, but never resorting to mud slinging, etc.
As JPostal says, Bud deals mainly with professional detail shops and major carwashes that provide detail services that "people want to buy", and these people do not expect the high standards that individual enthusists such as here attempt to obtain.
Grumpy
C. Charles Hahn
C. Charles Hahn is offline
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Quote: Originally Posted by buda View Post
If I come across as arrogant it is not intended it is how others read what I say.
"The problem isn't me, it's everyone else!"
Yeah, Bud. Keep telling yourself that.
Quote: Originally Posted by buda View Post
Ketch:
Charles thinks of himself as a comedian.
Try to get your facts straight before you open your mouth (or type, or anything else for that matter). countrysquire was the one who posted a comedic reply; I simply expressed that I found humor in the comment.
Quote: Originally Posted by buda View Post
It is interesting how this post was taken by most of the leading posters on Autopia,
And what does that tell you? If MOST of the LEADING POSTERS here are taking what you say in a less-than-positive light, perhaps it should be telling you that your approach needs some recalibration.
Not a problem for me, if you or the other "moderators" want to ban me from Autopia again that is your decision.
Regards
Bud Abraham
I happen to know you've been warned several times, yet you keep coming back for more. If banning you is the only way to get your unwaveringly poor attitude off this forum, I for one hope they do it.
What we need to know is what qualifies Bill the Buffer to pontificate about anything in the industry. We only know what he says about himself, I have never found anyone here who can substantiate anything Bill says about himself
Oh yeah:
AT-5
December 30, 2011 08:27PM Registered: 8 weeks ago
Posts: 8
I just wanted to let everyone on this form know about AT-5. I recieved a sample of this product from Billd55 about a week ago I couldn't apply it until today because of rain and cold weather and I am please to report that this product is just truely AMAZING!!!!! The shine is like looking in a mirror I have used wax and polishes for over 30 years and I can truthfully say I have never seen a wax or polish produce a shine like AT-5 does. It was easy to apply I did my car in about 3 hrs from wash to finish the product comes off as easy as it applies just make you do it in the shade or early in the morning when it's cool and you want have any problem I used a wax remover to get rid of the old wax and so the sealer would bond to the clear coat and now I have a shine I am proud of. Billd55 you have a great product thank you. So for all you doubter out there all I can say is just try AT-5 and see for yourself. P.S.HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYBODY
Quote from Gina
Most people are so turned off... they would never buy the product just to spite him.... Opinions vary
AT-5!!! - I WANT SOME!!!
From: James4:7
To: billd55
08/28/2011 04:27PM
Hey Bill, Love your videos on YouTube and a fan of using different kinds of sealants. Tried the Gem industries site to purchase some, no way to buy. Called the phone number, Guy directed me to wholesalecarcare.com But then it had all products except AT-5!!! I believe this product can deliver, but why is it so hard to get. So can you help direct me in the right direction. Is there a walk-in store location near San Diego (where I live) or a NO BS, NO RUNAROUND website I can go to? THANK YOU. I highly value your opinion, as your professionalism and wisdom in this subject can be seen in your YouTube videos!!!
AT-5
From: rjhartman04
To: billd55
05/30/2010 10:38PM
Hi Bill,
I wanted to say you are right on on my opinion, I think some of these guys just want to sale their product and give unfounded and unexperianced testimony.
The AT-5 you speak of, how would you say it does on high gloss shine any color vehicle like reds and blacks against Zaino?
Where and how can I get this AT-5 to try?
How many exteriors can I complete per package size?
Again hang in there and keep the knoweldge leading the forum.
Regards,
Rick
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Quote from Bud:
We only know what he says about himself, I have never found anyone here who can substantiate anything Bill says about himself
Well let's see what other people in the biz say about you Bud:
The humor of the reply flew over your head @ "Mach .3", more "Thought provoking gems of wisdom from the "Carwash King," here are a few I thought might be better from the great "Boodah"
1. Do you spend most of your time trying get your customers car dislodged from the track of your "State of the art tunnelwash"?
2. How much time do you spend online trying to get cases of "Pine scent" mirror hangers by the case?.
3. The cotton rags are not that bad for your customers finish, as your guys only drop the towels "Occasionally" on the ground
4. Bubblgum machines in the customer lounge are "Moneymakers" behind sales of "Porkrhinds"
5. A 20% damage rate to your customers cars are "Acceptable" ratios in the "Carwash industry"
6. You can make back your ROI "With the quickness" as long as you have a 90% of "Entry level" guys "Employed" at any one time, as someone has to hire these guys as Obama needs those unemployment numbers to spike as why should 3rd world countries beat America in this regard
7. Reclaimed water is a "Green aspect" of your operation.......AlGore says so...........and that's a fact
8. Carwash owners have lot's of time off for vacations, as minimum wagers need no supervision.....place practically runs itself
9. "Penny saver" newspapers are the "Poo"
10. The above "Bullitt points" are "Revolutionary" in the industry
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JPostal
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I fear that I might come across as a Buda supporter and be blacklisted by writing this but here it goes...
I understand that most you guys disagree/dislike buda's posts because of the way he comes across and his disconect from Autopian style detailing, but the questions he asked in this post are worth thinking about for people who detail for a living (even though the questions are not ground breaking). Buda might not be the greatest detailer (or a detailer at all actually...I've never seen any of his work), but my guess is that he has more experience than most of us in running a business. This was posted in the pro detailer general discussion forum and in my opinion deserves some discussion because at the end of the day we have to be profitable. We will debate for hours about what the best glass cleaner/tire dressing/sealant is, but we can't spend a few minutes thinking about, and discussing our business? Really?
Ron Ketcham
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Two great response posts.
Bud has years and years of operating businesses that are part of the detailing industry.
Successfully, I may add.
Bud and I have butted heads over the years on various issues, but never resorting to mud slinging, etc.
As JPostal says, Bud deals mainly with professional detail shops and major carwashes that provide detail services that "people want to buy", and these people do not expect the high standards that individual enthusists such as here attempt to obtain.
Grumpy
C. Charles Hahn
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Quote: Originally Posted by buda View Post
If I come across as arrogant it is not intended it is how others read what I say.
"The problem isn't me, it's everyone else!"
Yeah, Bud. Keep telling yourself that.
Quote: Originally Posted by buda View Post
Ketch:
Charles thinks of himself as a comedian.
Try to get your facts straight before you open your mouth (or type, or anything else for that matter). countrysquire was the one who posted a comedic reply; I simply expressed that I found humor in the comment.
Quote: Originally Posted by buda View Post
It is interesting how this post was taken by most of the leading posters on Autopia,
And what does that tell you? If MOST of the LEADING POSTERS here are taking what you say in a less-than-positive light, perhaps it should be telling you that your approach needs some recalibration.
Not a problem for me, if you or the other "moderators" want to ban me from Autopia again that is your decision.
Regards
Bud Abraham
I happen to know you've been warned several times, yet you keep coming back for more. If banning you is the only way to get your unwaveringly poor attitude off this forum, I for one hope they do it.
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Re: Ron's reality February 06, 2012 07:46PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
Quote from The Queen of Detailing and Detailer of the Year
The problem is this guy derails every discussion and turns into a discussion about AT-5 and about himself.
The problem with this chick is that because her dad gave her a job managing a Car Wash/ Detail shop that some how makes her an expert. Yes, I mention what I believe about swirl marks, but who else is . Maybe a few detailers who can put 2+2 together, and do actual detailing work for a living and not supervise it.
I see she was a president of a now long gone detailing association which makes me wonder why that happened.
Hear is a quote from an article about her on the internet:
“I think what sets us apart is that we
are a very technical driven shop with
educated experience and we are
constantly having training,” she says.
“We go to school continuously to keep
abreast of what technology has to offer,
and we take on a lot of challenges to test
ourselves and to learn from the experience
of doing it.”
Now these are the sealants she uses at her shop:
Applying premium quality carnauba wax to fully protect and maintain the finish.
Upgrading to a premium longer-lasting quality polymer sealant to fully protect and maintain the finish (optional).
She makes this comment:
Most people are so turned off... they would never buy the product just to spite him.
It appears to me the reason she is turned off is because she does not want to hear that the crap she is putting on her customers cars is doing nothing but create swirl marks, and correction problems.
Is this the truth ?
Applying premium quality carnauba wax to fully protect and maintain the finish.
This is just pure crap, and I am sick of hearing this bull. Carnauba wax does not fully protect paint, but people like Gina, Ron, and Bud continue to repeat this COMPLETE LIE that it fully protects paint as a fact. I guess to many here it is a
mute point , and because you make money from it it is OK.
Here is just one example that wax does not fully protect your paint
[www.autopia.org]
Hopefully, maybe I can wake up some people out there so they at least understand what the actually implications of using
these products are.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2012 11:30PM by billd55.
The problem is this guy derails every discussion and turns into a discussion about AT-5 and about himself.
The problem with this chick is that because her dad gave her a job managing a Car Wash/ Detail shop that some how makes her an expert. Yes, I mention what I believe about swirl marks, but who else is . Maybe a few detailers who can put 2+2 together, and do actual detailing work for a living and not supervise it.
I see she was a president of a now long gone detailing association which makes me wonder why that happened.
Hear is a quote from an article about her on the internet:
“I think what sets us apart is that we
are a very technical driven shop with
educated experience and we are
constantly having training,” she says.
“We go to school continuously to keep
abreast of what technology has to offer,
and we take on a lot of challenges to test
ourselves and to learn from the experience
of doing it.”
Now these are the sealants she uses at her shop:
Applying premium quality carnauba wax to fully protect and maintain the finish.
Upgrading to a premium longer-lasting quality polymer sealant to fully protect and maintain the finish (optional).
She makes this comment:
Most people are so turned off... they would never buy the product just to spite him.
It appears to me the reason she is turned off is because she does not want to hear that the crap she is putting on her customers cars is doing nothing but create swirl marks, and correction problems.
Is this the truth ?
Applying premium quality carnauba wax to fully protect and maintain the finish.
This is just pure crap, and I am sick of hearing this bull. Carnauba wax does not fully protect paint, but people like Gina, Ron, and Bud continue to repeat this COMPLETE LIE that it fully protects paint as a fact. I guess to many here it is a
mute point , and because you make money from it it is OK.
Here is just one example that wax does not fully protect your paint
[www.autopia.org]
Hopefully, maybe I can wake up some people out there so they at least understand what the actually implications of using
these products are.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2012 11:30PM by billd55.
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Re: Ron's reality February 06, 2012 10:27PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 63 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 06, 2012 10:42PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
Quote:
"Small minded people talk about people, while Brilliant minded people talk about thoughts and ideas." -Michael Dlouhy
Quotes , Quotes, and more Quotes. You and Bud , can you not think for yourself. I have done nothing but give my thoughts and ideas, but you for example seem to do nothing but insult me. I have never talked bad about anyone here, and if you take what I say as being personally directed toward you it is not. It is the whole business that blames everyone else as being the hack.
How many times will someone continue to ask the same questions about swirl mark problems before someone here gets
a CLUE that there may be a better solution than using wax and poly sealants. Small minded people follow the pack,
and people like Steve Jobs see a better way. What you cannot see is I am not taking about people, but ideas on how to answer this question once and for all.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2012 11:30PM by billd55.
"Small minded people talk about people, while Brilliant minded people talk about thoughts and ideas." -Michael Dlouhy
Quotes , Quotes, and more Quotes. You and Bud , can you not think for yourself. I have done nothing but give my thoughts and ideas, but you for example seem to do nothing but insult me. I have never talked bad about anyone here, and if you take what I say as being personally directed toward you it is not. It is the whole business that blames everyone else as being the hack.
How many times will someone continue to ask the same questions about swirl mark problems before someone here gets
a CLUE that there may be a better solution than using wax and poly sealants. Small minded people follow the pack,
and people like Steve Jobs see a better way. What you cannot see is I am not taking about people, but ideas on how to answer this question once and for all.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2012 11:30PM by billd55.
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Re: Ron's reality February 06, 2012 11:06PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 06, 2012 11:10PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
Quote:
One of the hardest things to do is look in the mirror and be honest with one's self.
Quote: Originally Posted by buda View Post
If I come across as arrogant it is not intended it is how others read what I say.
"The problem isn't me, it's everyone else!"
Yeah, Bud. Keep telling yourself that.
One of the hardest things to do is look in the mirror and be honest with one's self.
Quote: Originally Posted by buda View Post
If I come across as arrogant it is not intended it is how others read what I say.
"The problem isn't me, it's everyone else!"
Yeah, Bud. Keep telling yourself that.
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Re: Ron's reality February 06, 2012 11:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 07, 2012 05:17PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
Quote:
You certainly do not have to justify yourself to anyone in this industry. Those of us who are active in the industry, worldwide as you have been, do not need to validate your qualifications.
Bud
I am not saying in any way, shape, or form that Ron does not have qualifications in this industry. Although, it is not in the area I am taking about, and neither do you either. Until I starting mentioning the drawbacks of using wax and sealants I believe neither Ron or yourself ever gave the matter one moment of thought.
To this day you two blindly go along believing that wax and sealants fully protect paint , and correction , wet sanding , and polishing really do no harm. Considering that is all you know and understand then yes I would say you are experts in that
area of expertise, but how you claim that expertise makes you an expert in what I know makes me scratch my head in disbelief.
Neither of you have a clue what real protection is when it comes to paint . Well I do, and trust me it is a whole
lot more than beading of water. All you have ever done since I can remember is argue , dismiss , and ridicule everything
I say . I present test results and you say they are not relevant and ignore them.
You and others here ask me to prove I am right, but never feel you need to prove I am wrong. Blindly stating that because
everyone else does it that way seems to be your only defense. Ron may have done many complete details, but using
wax and poly sealants. Given what I have been trying to make clear here how would he have a remote idea of what real
protection is beyond what these products.offer. So I ask this: How would his qualifications mean anything relating to this
subject?
What Ron describes as a train wreck is nothing more than showing people coming to this forum a different way to approach this problem without spending a small fortune on products, training, and correction. I have spent 20 years
working with a product that has convinced me over the years that there is a better solution than the one out there.
You certainly do not have to justify yourself to anyone in this industry. Those of us who are active in the industry, worldwide as you have been, do not need to validate your qualifications.
Bud
I am not saying in any way, shape, or form that Ron does not have qualifications in this industry. Although, it is not in the area I am taking about, and neither do you either. Until I starting mentioning the drawbacks of using wax and sealants I believe neither Ron or yourself ever gave the matter one moment of thought.
To this day you two blindly go along believing that wax and sealants fully protect paint , and correction , wet sanding , and polishing really do no harm. Considering that is all you know and understand then yes I would say you are experts in that
area of expertise, but how you claim that expertise makes you an expert in what I know makes me scratch my head in disbelief.
Neither of you have a clue what real protection is when it comes to paint . Well I do, and trust me it is a whole
lot more than beading of water. All you have ever done since I can remember is argue , dismiss , and ridicule everything
I say . I present test results and you say they are not relevant and ignore them.
You and others here ask me to prove I am right, but never feel you need to prove I am wrong. Blindly stating that because
everyone else does it that way seems to be your only defense. Ron may have done many complete details, but using
wax and poly sealants. Given what I have been trying to make clear here how would he have a remote idea of what real
protection is beyond what these products.offer. So I ask this: How would his qualifications mean anything relating to this
subject?
What Ron describes as a train wreck is nothing more than showing people coming to this forum a different way to approach this problem without spending a small fortune on products, training, and correction. I have spent 20 years
working with a product that has convinced me over the years that there is a better solution than the one out there.
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Re: Ron's reality February 07, 2012 07:51PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 08, 2012 01:16PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 09, 2012 02:45AM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 246 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 09, 2012 08:17AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 09, 2012 03:08PM |
Registered: 13 years ago Posts: 246 |
buda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pro-Tech you are absolutely correct. There isn't
> a more knowledgeable and giving person in the
> detail industry than Ron Ketcham
With all due respect, you're no slouch either Bud. Kudos to all you've ackomplished too.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pro-Tech you are absolutely correct. There isn't
> a more knowledgeable and giving person in the
> detail industry than Ron Ketcham
With all due respect, you're no slouch either Bud. Kudos to all you've ackomplished too.
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Re: Ron's reality February 09, 2012 03:20PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 10, 2012 05:24PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,182 |
Bill :
You have a right to disagree with Gina but I think your attempt to discredit her based on that disagreement is abhorrant.
Likewise, Ron Ketcham ( Grumpy ) is not automatically right but it is absurd to say he lacks experience . To knock others on the forum as you do is unseemly .
Bud is fair game ( LOL) .
If carnauba wax caused damage, the product liability suits would have driven it off of the market . I've used various carnauba waxes and...
1) It does protect the paint .
2) It produces a superior depth and first-class shine.
3) Some carnauba products are easy to apply and buff off .
4) It does not break down and yellow or oxidize .
5) None of the carnauba products I've used lasted as long as Zaino Z-2, AM Awesome Gloss or Blue Coral Sealant / Blue Poly .
6) The best carnauba products I found were Mother's California Gold Step #3, Mother's California Gold Original Car Cleaner Wax, Malm's Liquid pure wax ( and the old Blue Coral and Classic, which were hard to buff off ).
I feel it is fine for Gina to offer carnauba as long as customers have the option of choosing a long-lasting sealant instead.
You have a right to disagree with Gina but I think your attempt to discredit her based on that disagreement is abhorrant.
Likewise, Ron Ketcham ( Grumpy ) is not automatically right but it is absurd to say he lacks experience . To knock others on the forum as you do is unseemly .
Bud is fair game ( LOL) .
If carnauba wax caused damage, the product liability suits would have driven it off of the market . I've used various carnauba waxes and...
1) It does protect the paint .
2) It produces a superior depth and first-class shine.
3) Some carnauba products are easy to apply and buff off .
4) It does not break down and yellow or oxidize .
5) None of the carnauba products I've used lasted as long as Zaino Z-2, AM Awesome Gloss or Blue Coral Sealant / Blue Poly .
6) The best carnauba products I found were Mother's California Gold Step #3, Mother's California Gold Original Car Cleaner Wax, Malm's Liquid pure wax ( and the old Blue Coral and Classic, which were hard to buff off ).
I feel it is fine for Gina to offer carnauba as long as customers have the option of choosing a long-lasting sealant instead.
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Re: Ron's reality February 10, 2012 06:53PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
Quote from Doug:
Bill :
You have a right to disagree with Gina but I think your attempt to discredit her based on that disagreement is abhorrant.
Likewise, Ron Ketcham ( Grumpy ) is not automatically right but it is absurd to say he lacks experience . To knock others on the forum as you do is unseemly .
So I guess it is just fine when others here( including yourself) discredit me is not what you consider abhorrent and unseemly.
Quote from Doug
Doug , this statement shows how brain dead you are. Clearly this is why no one should listen to you for advise.
Quote
If carnauba wax caused damage, the product liability suits would have driven it off of the market . I've used various carnauba waxes and...
1) It does protect the paint .
How would you start a product liability suit and again'st who? There would be no way you could establish who caused the damage, Your logic makes zero sense.
Does a carnauba wax protect again'st
tree sap No It will leave dark spots if not removed quickly
bugs No It will etch if not removed quickly
salt No It will etch if not removed quickly
Acid rain No It will etch if not removed quickly
Bird Droppings No It will etch if not removed quickly
Quote:
I feel it is fine for Gina to offer carnauba as long as customers have the option of choosing a long-lasting sealant instead.
Once again your logic makes zero sense. All the long lasting sealant does is make it harder to remove when it comes time
to have correction done. It does not offer any more protection abilities, but just allows the poly sealant to bead water longer, and withstand more washings.
Gina's website states that both these products FULLY protect the paint , and that is not true.
Quote:
but it is absurd to say he lacks experience .
I never said Ron does not have experience. Please learn how to read! What I said is this:
I am not saying in any way, shape, or form that Ron does not have qualifications in this industry. Although, it is not in the area I am taking about
Ron may have done many complete details, but using
wax and poly sealants. Given what I have been trying to make clear here how would he have a remote idea of what real
protection is beyond what these products.offer. So I ask this: How would his qualifications mean anything relating to this
subject?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2012 08:56PM by billd55.
Bill :
You have a right to disagree with Gina but I think your attempt to discredit her based on that disagreement is abhorrant.
Likewise, Ron Ketcham ( Grumpy ) is not automatically right but it is absurd to say he lacks experience . To knock others on the forum as you do is unseemly .
So I guess it is just fine when others here( including yourself) discredit me is not what you consider abhorrent and unseemly.
Quote from Doug
Doug , this statement shows how brain dead you are. Clearly this is why no one should listen to you for advise.
Quote
If carnauba wax caused damage, the product liability suits would have driven it off of the market . I've used various carnauba waxes and...
1) It does protect the paint .
How would you start a product liability suit and again'st who? There would be no way you could establish who caused the damage, Your logic makes zero sense.
Does a carnauba wax protect again'st
tree sap No It will leave dark spots if not removed quickly
bugs No It will etch if not removed quickly
salt No It will etch if not removed quickly
Acid rain No It will etch if not removed quickly
Bird Droppings No It will etch if not removed quickly
Quote:
I feel it is fine for Gina to offer carnauba as long as customers have the option of choosing a long-lasting sealant instead.
Once again your logic makes zero sense. All the long lasting sealant does is make it harder to remove when it comes time
to have correction done. It does not offer any more protection abilities, but just allows the poly sealant to bead water longer, and withstand more washings.
Gina's website states that both these products FULLY protect the paint , and that is not true.
Quote:
but it is absurd to say he lacks experience .
I never said Ron does not have experience. Please learn how to read! What I said is this:
I am not saying in any way, shape, or form that Ron does not have qualifications in this industry. Although, it is not in the area I am taking about
Ron may have done many complete details, but using
wax and poly sealants. Given what I have been trying to make clear here how would he have a remote idea of what real
protection is beyond what these products.offer. So I ask this: How would his qualifications mean anything relating to this
subject?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2012 08:56PM by billd55.
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Re: Ron's reality February 10, 2012 08:10PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
Bill your sealant, my sealant and everyone's sealant will not offer much more protection than a wax.
A sealant offers more durabiity than a wax, but as far as protection against tree sap stains; acid rain, etc it does not prevent any damage anymore than you say wax does not.
You are not a chemist, you have no idea what the ingredients are that go into a sealant nor what they do.
All you have is opinion which cannot be substantiated.
You cite the tests that were done on some website, but they have no substantiation either, Just statements that "our product" tested better than all the others.
You just do not seem to get it.
A sealant offers more durabiity than a wax, but as far as protection against tree sap stains; acid rain, etc it does not prevent any damage anymore than you say wax does not.
You are not a chemist, you have no idea what the ingredients are that go into a sealant nor what they do.
All you have is opinion which cannot be substantiated.
You cite the tests that were done on some website, but they have no substantiation either, Just statements that "our product" tested better than all the others.
You just do not seem to get it.
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Re: Ron's reality February 10, 2012 08:52PM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 10, 2012 09:03PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 11, 2012 12:49AM |
Registered: 14 years ago Posts: 689 |
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Re: Ron's reality February 11, 2012 01:18AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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