Something to consider

Many here think my posts are for pissing forum members off, but I can assure you that is not my intention. As much as I would love to offer a compliment for good work I feel I cannot do that when it is not deserved.

Here is another black car post on autopia with the same swirl marks. The car is a 07 with 6,400 miles, so it has not been
driven a lot. This detail required 18 hours of labor to complete. No one likes criticism, and everyone loves praise. Although,
the purpose of these forums should be IMO a place where people can learn new things, and not a place where worn out
methods of handling a problem which are dwell ed upon and protected.

Too many people come to these forums thinking that the members that post these pics have all the answers because there
after pics look so awesome. Then the crowd follows with there admiration, and it is a real love fest. I am sorry to be a downer, but I am not so impressed.

All I can offer is my opinion, and you can take it for what it is. I think I have a good idea what an average car owner wants when it comes to paint finishes. That is: something that maintains a shine, but protects the paint. This is where I have a problem with this and many similar ones.

Notice the detailer says :When the car was delivered to me, it already looked very shiny and only minimal swirls were visible. Then he says after the washing:After drying the car, I was greeted with the true condition of the paint. It was definitely worse than I originally saw but it still wasn’t bad. I ask how does a car finish look worse by just washing it ?
All that happened was the wash stripped more of the sealant off which caused more scratching.

Quote from the detailer:


It looked like the dealer used some type of glaze because of the oils I was removing while washing the car.

Then he states this:


As you can see, there wasn’t much bonded contaminants on the car. I was thrilled about this because claying didn’t really take long.


For some reason it always seems to get back to the dealer as the problem. Anyways, it is clear this car has been waxed.
After all the polishes used and time required . What does this guy use as his final step? Meguiar’s Ultimate Paste Wax.


His comments:

This wax looks gorgeous on black! Here are some pictures. You be the judge.


This car is in Az which gets extremely hot, and I wonder how long it will take for that gorgeous wax to melt, How many car washes will it take for this car to be right back to this stage where this will be needed again which may require more abrasive products to correct the problem.

This is great for the correction detailer, but how about the customer? Do'nt they have the right to expect something more than this. Constantly sending large sums of money to correct the problems and flaws caused by sealants used. I am sorry
but using proper wash techniques will not prevent swirl marks forever.

If you all here think that you are so great because you cover up a problem with a temp solution. Then you are fooling yourselves, but not your customers. They are the ones who will see how long your work lasts in the future, and you will not.


Here is the link to the post on Autopia:

[www.autopiaforums.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2012 03:59PM by billd55.

Bill-
The best way to preserve the finish will be to wash it frequently, thereby preventing contaminants from building up to the point where washing grinds them into the surface. Frequent washing also keeps contaminents from chemically attacking the paint and etching it . Washing with a boar's hair truck brush and/or a washing mop while rinsing with a pressure wand will minimize scratching . Hand washing with a car wash soap won't strip the wax . Some car wash soaps add protection to the waxes made by the same company as makes the soap .

Using ordinary wax is okay if it is reapplied whenever the water stops beading up .

As I've said before, my experience has been that Zaino products outlast Meguiar's waxes .

Quote:

Frequent washing also keeps contaminents from chemically attacking the paint and etching it .

Totally agree , but it causes the wax and sealants to wear off


Quote:

Using ordinary wax is okay if it is reapplied whenever the water stops beading up .

As I've said before, my experience has been that Zaino products outlast Meguiar's waxes


TOTALLY disagree. Zaino may last longer than waxes, but once again beading means nothing when it comes to full protection. Whatever product ( wax or poly sealant) used will NOT prevent swirl marks , nor will it prevent correction either.

Bill-
Frequent washing won't cause waxes and sealants to wear off if, as I said earlier, you use a mild car wash soap and if that soap has ingredients that add protection to your wax, washing can extend the life of the wax .

Surely, you are not implying that one shouldn't wash the car frequently for fear he will remove the wax !

Commercial car washes strip natural waxes and can erode even tough sealants .

Beading of water does mean something : If your finish beads water, there is definitely some product still on the paint, so you know the product is holding up. Furthermore, the presence of the product is a rough indication that it is still protecting.

This gets complicated by the fact that some products eventually stop beading water but remain on the surface beyond the beading effect . This makes measuring durability no easy task .

Quote from Doug:

Frequent washing won't cause waxes and sealants to wear off if, as I said earlier, you use a mild car wash soap and if that soap has ingredients that add protection to your wax, washing can extend the life of the wax .



Quote: Dr. G Chemist:

Waxes as you pointed out wear out over time with washing.


Who should we listen to? You or a chemist?


Quotes from Doug:

Beading of water does mean something : If your finish beads water, there is definitely some product still on the paint, so you know the product is holding up. Furthermore, the presence of the product is a rough indication that it is still protecting.

This gets complicated by the fact that some products eventually stop beading water but remain on the surface beyond the beading effect .


Doug you are sooooooo wrong. You are right there is something on the paint, but it is only offering very limited protection
at best. All that something on the paint does is smear and distort the clarity of the paint which polishes and polishers are
needed to fix the problem.

Buffer Bill, as you are referred to by the forums which banned you, to this day, if AT5 was as great as you keep saying, all the other companies who produce sealants of a polymer structure, would be out of business.
All the vehicle manufacturers would be private labeling it, the Autozones, PepBoy's, Advance Auto, NADA, etc, etc.
The manufacturers would love to have a product that would provide the protection you tout, as it would have the potential to save them millions in customer paint warranty claims.
I have tested, used, etc the product, both at Finish Kare and Automotive International.
My and our chemist findings were that it is a good product, but no where near what you keep saying as to regarding protection, ability to provide protection for longer than many other products being manufactured and marketed.
My question is this--as I look in on many, many automotive forums, I don't see any real discussion regarding the product or what you keep saying.
Does that mean that everyone else are complete idiots or not aware of the product, or may have used it at one time or another and just classified it as another "touted miracle" product?
The product has been around for close to 2 decades, so many have had an opportunity to try it, yet, only you, keep raving on like a mad man regarding the product.
It is NOT a Bad Product, just nothing really new and compares to many other available products.

Bill :
Quoting You : "Quote: Dr. G Chemist:
Waxes as you pointed out wear out over time with washing.
Who should we listen to? You or a chemist?

Answer : Listen to me .

Doug

Quote from Doug:

Bill :
Quoting You : "Quote: Dr. G Chemist:
Waxes as you pointed out wear out over time with washing.
Who should we listen to? You or a chemist?

Answer : Listen to me .

Doug


Well excuse me! Doug, this why you are brain dead. You have enough knowledge to be considered dangerous.
Sorry, I think I will take the advice of Dr.G over yours.