Admin Paul...

Paul,

I'm not contributing to the forum anymore. There is nothing constructive or positive happening anymore and I am getting constantly harassed by BillD55. There are some amazing and highly respected people who chose to be members of this forum but nobody can extract meaningful information from them without Bill dissecting and criticising. Enthusiasts on other forums are open game to him and his constant copying, pasting and destructive criticism of them (behind their backs) is just plain rude and obnoxious.

Out of respect for other members here who have chosen not to speak out, who sadly instead chose to stop contributing, and out of respect to new visitors to the site who pay witness to the bickering and toxicity, I recommend banning Bill from the forum.

If only people came with an MSDS, you would know what you are dealing with. Bill is probably a good detailer and a nice guy but he doesn't come across that way on this forum.

I am glad to respond via PM to this message but I understand you are under no obligation to address my suggestion.

Thank you.

Quote:
I'm not contributing to the forum anymore.


We have heard that before

Quote:

. Enthusiasts on other forums are open game to him and his constant copying, pasting and destructive criticism of them (behind their backs) is just plain rude and obnoxious.

They are welcome to come here and attack me any time they choose. I am a big boy and I can take it.

Quote:

Out of respect for other members here who have chosen not to speak out, who sadly instead chose to stop contributing, and out of respect to new visitors to the site who pay witness to the bickering and toxicity, I recommend banning Bill from the forum.

I believe you all tried to ban me back some time back, it failed. What you say is toxicity and bickering is basically that certain people here have a problem with the truth, and that their opinion is the only one that should be expressed here.

Quote:
If only people came with an MSDS, you would know what you are dealing with

Who is Profile Detailer? Does any one know? We do not know his real name, or seen one thing he has done to show what he really does. He refuses to tell anyone here what his website is which seems very strange.

I post videos of actual work I have done. I give references of actual people that someone can actually talk to that show
me experience.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2012 12:57AM by billd55.

Bill, once again, you are over the "edge", and that is not attractive to anyone.
Take it easy, don't be so agressive in promoting your beliefs.
It should be, but apparently not, that you are NOTgaining any followers here, to your personal and individual point of view.
And, Bill, that all it is, "your point of view".
Grumpy

Ron

It is my point of view, and at least I have one. I do not expect you will ever be a follower, but others may.

Bill, the last three months, only one has "sort of " followed you and not to sure that was not a "set-up", what was his name, moon something or other.
That's about, no--that's it.

Ron

Really why do'nt you go on with your life, and just not worry about my agenda as you call it. Clearly, you are retired
and really have little concern to see anything new.

Paul, as a long time poster of your forum, I am in agreement with the post by Profile Detailer.
At one time there was considerable activity on your forum, however since the ranting and ravings, attacks by one, the forum has died off.
As you told me a while back that you respected me and my years of professional experiences, am sure you can understand why I chose to no longer be part of the forum due to one person.
I thank you for your years of supporting and providing this forum, just sorry to leave you due to one person.
Ketch

Paul

If you choose to ban me from your forum I will have no hard feelings, Although. I would like to give you my two cents here.
It appears that a certain group of members that have been here for some years feel that their time here has given them
the right to control the dialogue . It seems very clear if someone presents an idea that they do not like, they cry like
spoiled children and threaten to leave the forum.

Ron may have many years of experience, but in the 5 years he has been on this forum he has only posted 121 times.
One would think with the years of experience he has, he would have more to say. Other members like Bud use this forum
to sell products,and promote his business which I feel is spam. Both Bud and Ron were banned from the Autopia forum
for some reason, so clearly their views were cause for them being banned.

I did not post on this forum for several months, and this forum became dead and boring. You may want to ask how many new member have left this forum because of certain members who think they control this forum. I have seen this on other forums like truth in detailing and detail city which are no longer around.

I feel you have a great and unique forum because everyone can speak their opinion without being banned, If these members leave well that is their choice, but throwing a temper tantrum to get me removed from this forum shows real intolerance IMO. I plan to say if you will have me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2012 06:07AM by billd55.

I’m going to add my narrative to this so that Paul can view accurate information to make his choices from. Even though this is a free and open forum, it doesn’t mean that it can go unwatched. I also feel this forum has gone off the deep end and lacks moderation. I’d hate for it to meet its demise because of one issue, but I’m afraid that is what might have already happened. In the meantime, I think I’m going to detach myself from this place and focus my efforts on something more effective and professional. Good luck!

billd55 Wrote:
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>
> Ron may have many years of experience, but in the
> 5 years he has been on this forum he has only
> posted 121 times.
> One would think with the years of experience he
> has, he would have more to say.

Wrong. Ron has well over 1200 posts. He’s a wealth of knowledge and a true professional. It’s members like him that have made this place what it once was.

billd55 Wrote:
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>
> Other members like
> Bud use this forum
> to sell products,and promote his business which I
> feel is spam.

That’s pretty ironic seeing that you’ve quite extensively used this forum to promote AT-5(and no others) as well. I don’t know another forum (detailing or otherwise) that would allow this to happen w/o some sort of sponsorship.


billd55 Wrote:
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>
> Both Bud and Ron were banned from
> the Autopia forum
> for some reason, so clearly their views
>were cause for them being banned.

Wrong. I actually main lined the effort to lift Bud & Ron’s ban from Autopia.org. There was also a public apology posted for the misjustice that was placed against them for their banning as well. They were banned because they both worked in the car care industry at that time and the owner of the forum felt that they were a threat to his own product line.



billd55 Wrote:
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>
>I have seen this on other
> forums like truth in detailing and detail city
> which are no longer around.

Wrong. Both the Truth in Detailing and Detail City forums were merged and are still around to this day. They are owned by Palm Beach Motoring Group aka AutoGeek.net In an effort to maintain clarity, it should also be known that Bill has been permanently banned from both of these forums as well.

All:

I am disappointed to see it come to this.

One disadvantage I have is that I am only a amateur / hobbyist detailer. This means that I am not in a real position to evaluate the opinions of this product / technique that is often debated here on the phorum.

BilD55: I hate to say it, but to at least a certain extent, the others have a point. I am not saying the others are always 100% right, as if it was possible to come to that sort of conclusion. Your posts are sometimes very aggressive and can be detrimental to the community here. Could you do me a personal favor and tone it down some? Name calling ("spoiled children" for example) does not help your cause.

I haven't banned anyone, at least not for the kind of activity we are talking about here. The point sometimes is made that a well moderated message board with zero tolerance for even the slightest amount of abusive activity attracts the best and most qualified postings. There is also something to be said for a free and open phorum. Banning people, or worse yet, closing down the phorum is not something I look forward to.




Regards,



Paul Pollock
WebCars! Webmaster
[web-cars.com]

Paul what I have found is that when the moderator does not tolerate bantering of any nature on the forum those who want to instigate do not post.

It would seem that your forum could use some moderating.

You have some very solid people posting on your forum and when they are upset over one of two persons dominate posting then it is time to take a look at what you need to do to keep most of the participants happy.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Paul

I appreciate what you have said , but I feel it is time for me to exist. My goal here was to share info, and not argue with intolerant people. I am not here to be in a social club, nor stroke people's egos like many here.

I am sorry, but I feel certain people here are acting like spoiled children, and to be totally honest I am sick of it. No one has stopped anyone here from posting what they choose to post to my knowledge. If they do not like what I have to say then they have the right to ignore it, but they choose to respond.I have been very nice to try and answer their questions, but after a while, my patience gets stretched when I am attacked all the time.

To be honest, your forum is not as popular as others, but it had one thing over the others . No moderator to control the content of what is said on the forum. Most of these forums are to push detailing products they sell,and I do understand why they do that. Although, they are vanilla sites proclaiming the same worn out advice and products that provide no real solutions to a problem, but confusing advice and a million clone products the totally confuse and waste people's money.

Since your site really is not based on making money which is fine. Really what do these complaining members offer to your
forum? Are they making you any money? Clearly not. Then I cannot see a reason why you would care if this site was moderated or not. Otherwise, if they left the forum. I am sure others will join and fill their void.

As I said earlier, thanks for letting me share my ideas here, but it is not fun for me anymore. Clearly, the children here have gotten their way, their tantrum worked,and they can go back to subjects that make them comfortable and safe.

Bill - I don't want you to stop posting, just stop posting just about AT-5 all the time. It's getting super old. Your way of detailing might be good for you and your clients, but 99.99999999% of all other detailers see things the complete opposite of you. All for a good reason in my opinion. We've tried explaining our way to you countless times, but you just still don't seem to take what anyone says seriously. And then you start new threads criticizing industry leaders and professional detailers just because they aren't doing things your way. I've been in the detailing industry for over 3 decades, have read dozens of detailing forums, taken several detailing classes and have never seen anyone relating to what you're thinking detailing is all about. I've tried to have professional dialog with you (lately), but it's like dealing with someone that just cannot understand basic detailing principals.You've been proven wrong many times and have yet to ackowledge yourself for being wrong. I just really think you are in your own little world. I really think it's time to turn over a new leaf. Best wishes!

paulp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I haven't banned anyone, at least not for the kind
> of activity we are talking about here. The point
> sometimes is made that a well moderated message
> board with zero tolerance for even the slightest
> amount of abusive activity attracts the best and
> most qualified postings. There is also something
> to be said for a free and open phorum. Banning
> people, or worse yet, closing down the phorum is
> not something I look forward to.
>

One thing I find interesting is that this forum has no set or posted rules? This might help settle some confusion if some basic rules were put into place to make this a better place. It seems to work for all the other "open" forums. Just saying...

This site is very interesting because of the conflect that Bill has with everybody. Before it was between Doug and Bud.Yes Bill, some people are tired of hearing about AT5, but in all fairness who has tried AT5. Somebody that knocks AT5 should at least try it, then they can say, yes Bill it is very good or Bill it is garbage.

Larry A :
I think almost everyone still here has numerous problems with Bill's posts : tiresome long diatribes, ideas that are just plain wrong, personal insults, vulger words, repetition, a seeming objective of just proving you can't shut him up, confusing cut and paste quotes, and then there's that AT-5, which he posts interminably about . The product he then suggests we buy is a no-name sealant sold by some guy on Ebay , which Bill says is rebottled AT-5 or did he say equivalent ?
It makes me suspect a scam / spam situation whereby someone is trading on AT-5s name . So Bill could have a financial interest in this or he could not but his constant promotion of that product and incredible claims makes me disregard it .

And I will not try the product because I 've wasted enough money on 'miracle' products in the past .

Larry, I think you've been a perfect asset to the forum but you have a high tolerance for Bill ( LOL) .

Doug

Here is a question that I have to ask . If AT5 is a acrylic and Klasse and Duragloss are also acrylic wouldnt they be almost the same ? If you like Klasse or Duragloss why would you change , and if you didnt like there two products why would you want to try AT5? Just a silly question I wanted to ask.

It is interesting that this is the only forum on which Bill posts.

Why? Because he would be banned on the other forums because of his postings and attacks

You don't see him on Mobileworks, Auto Detailing Network on Linkedin, Auto Care Forum, Professional Detailing Forum, detail page on Talk CARWASH

Why is that Bill?

Are we still carrying this? Can we let it go now?

He gone, Bud, don't fan the embers.

Bump for the public banning of Buffer Bill Daley once and for all.

I take back every nice thing I *might* have ever said.

Pro-Techt Wrote:
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> Bump for the public banning of Buffer Bill Daley
> once and for all.
>
> I take back every nice thing I *might* have ever
> said.

What nice thing have you ever said to me that you really meant.

Hack going away has my vote!