RON'S REAL EXPERIENCE

That would be quite interesting, would it not.
All we seem to hear from Buffer Bill is about one product, his constant ranting about swirls, asking what causes them, etc, etc.
If he really has any real time and experience, he would know what the many, many items there are in the life of a vehicle which will create such defects in a vehicle surface.
This whole "tyranical" approach of his has caused him to be banned from forum after forum, even here for a while, until lately, under a different name, he has returned, and not with any sort of change in his well known attitude towards how he reacts to those who do not drink his Kool-Aid.
It is my opinion, that his doing so has kept many who look in, from posting or even seeking to find resolution to their vehicles issues.
Few of us even bother to respond to him and l like most who do, only do so to demonstrate to the other visitors, that he can not bully everyone.

Buffer Bill not only attacks me, but you and Bud.
Bud, who has decades of all areas of experience in the detailing industry, does not need Bill's sort of ranting attacks, especially if all who follow on this forum, know anything about Bud.
He built a detailing supply business, which is still operatoring, and well respected "all around the world", he built and operated a full service carwash, several detailing centers, created a respected training program for detailers, served on the boards of many of the car wash and detailing organization in this country, has been a leader in the promotion of the creation of standards for detailing operations and procedures, is constantly traveling all over the world, on a regular basis to set up detailing and car wash business for business people, at their expense, not his.
He is a true, respected legend in the industry, yet, Buffer Bill questions Bud's abiliites, etc?
Bud and I were competitors, but we respected each other and our abilities, we worked together on many boards, led seminars at ICA's national trade show and convention, etc, I respected him then and I still do.
Folks, if you are reading this, check out via the many ways of the internet, who Bud is, and then consider what Buffer Bill is saying, who is questioning and attacking.
Just some logical thoughts for all.

Ketch22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Buffer Bill not only attacks me, but you and Bud.
> Bud, who has decades of all areas of experience in
> the detailing industry, does not need Bill's sort
> of ranting attacks, especially if all who follow
> on this forum, know anything about Bud.
> He built a detailing supply business, which is
> still operatoring, and well respected "all around
> the world", he built and operated a full service
> carwash, several detailing centers, created a
> respected training program for detailers, served
> on the boards of many of the car wash and
> detailing organization in this country, has been a
> leader in the promotion of the creation of
> standards for detailing operations and procedures,
> is constantly traveling all over the world, on a
> regular basis to set up detailing and car wash
> business for business people, at their expense,
> not his.
> He is a true, respected legend in the industry,
> yet, Buffer Bill questions Bud's abiliites, etc?
> Bud and I were competitors, but we respected each
> other and our abilities, we worked together on
> many boards, led seminars at ICA's national trade
> show and convention, etc, I respected him then and
> I still do.
> Folks, if you are reading this, check out via the
> many ways of the internet, who Bud is, and then
> consider what Buffer Bill is saying, who is
> questioning and attacking.
> Just some logical thoughts for all.


You two should get married

Pro-Techt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill - You have no business being such a pathetic
> little tyrant trying to discredit Ron's
> experience. All the threads you start are the same
> way....attacking someone else's opinion from
> forums you wish you could go on by twisting
> reality with the same old crap you spew.
>
> I'd love for you to go into detail about your
> decades of detailing experience and your list of
> accomplishments in the industry?
>
> You're sitting on your self assummed throne
> thinking you have the answers to everything just
> because you've sealed a couple planes and do wash
> & seals on swirled up cars. This, is a spec of
> sand on Ron's beach of accomplishments and
> knowledge. I'd be wiling to bet Ron has forgotten
> more in a week about detailing then you've learned
> in all your decades.
>
> I don't see how what you do or have done makes you
> competant enough to even call or consider yourself
> a "Detailer"???? You are the cream of the crop of
> the bottom of the barrel of what Florida is
> plagued with and that is kicking you up a few
> notches actually.

HACK

detailer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------
>
> HACK


Is that your response or what you want Paul to change your screen name to?

At last, we have a new name for Buffer Bill!
It is "HACK", for what he has demonstrated in his abilities, in his background, his manner of posting of experiences, his showing of his inabilties to learn and move forward with the changes in paint, interior fabric's, trim, exterior trim, etc, in his limited choices of product usage, etc---it must be

"HACK"!

Hack is what I will now use to address this person, it fits.

There's also a few more names that can describe his forum personna:

TROLL
SHILL
SPAMMER
>
(and most importantly)
>
>
>
BANNED!!!!!

Can not argue with that one.
He has been banned from almost all of the serious car care/detailing forums that I am aware of .
Folks, when reading Buffer Bill/HACK's, post, just consider this simple fact.
He is not welcome, with his manners and methods of "ranting", on the majority of leading detailing forums on the net.
This new name for him, "HACK" really does fit.

He can't pull this crap anywhere except this place. And that's why he's been banned so much. It's not hard to see right though this guy once he starts to open his mouth up. Everyone is wrong except him....Yeah right!

I do have to wonder, just how many folks came in here, expecting some serious responses to their concerns and felt it was not a place that was comfortable for them, once they read posts by the HACKER, his manner of attacking anyone who did not fit his personal agenda, and due to his "rants" and "attempts to discredit" folks who have a following on the very forums that banned him?
Not good for Paul or the forum, in my opinion.

And that's probably why he's so bitter. He can't mix into the real world and post on these forums so he comes here to take out his frustrations. You gotta wonder why all his threads are only about attackes on us, or quotes from other forums where he isn't allowed on. If he were, then why isn't he there to confront these posters with this rediculousness? Answer: He'd be banned with lightning speed. He's obviously not that dumb to know this. LOL

"Not dumb", oh, I think it may just be so.
How many years, how many forums, how many times have true, experienced, with documented backgrounds in the profession, threw up a challenge for him to present something real and documented that he has done, but yet, he just goes back to the YouTube video's, a very few friends quoted responses, but do a search, nothing of reality, nothing of such that supports his "wild claims", etc.
Look at his profile, and just how long this new name he works under has been up.
??? How many names has he had to use to get back on this forum.
Paul is very tolerant of those who mess up and wish to come back, just surprised that he let HACKER on again.

Pro-Techt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And that's probably why he's so bitter. He can't
> mix into the real world and post on these forums
> so he comes here to take out his frustrations. You
> gotta wonder why all his threads are only about
> attackes on us, or quotes from other forums where
> he isn't allowed on. If he were, then why isn't he
> there to confront these posters with this
> rediculousness? Answer: He'd be banned with
> lightning speed. He's obviously not that dumb to
> know this. LOL


David

What you have said here makes about as much sense as putting a screen door on a submarine. You and Ron are the bitter ones. Your posts are just wining about what you think you know about detailing. You asked me to come on your forum, but all your members are so brain washed with the newest wax to come out, or looking for for newest products to cover up swirl marks.

Your arrogance and ignorance is so thick you can cut it with a knife. Keep on thinking everyone is wrong and you are right. There's a medical condition associated with this you know.

The only good you serve is 2-fold actually:

1- a good pin cushion for amusement
2- job security for real detailers

Ketch22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Not dumb", oh, I think it may just be so.
> How many years, how many forums, how many times
> have true, experienced, with documented
> backgrounds in the profession, threw up a
> challenge for him to present something real and
> documented that he has done, but yet, he just goes
> back to the YouTube video's, a very few friends
> quoted responses, but do a search, nothing of
> reality, nothing of such that supports his "wild
> claims", etc.
> Look at his profile, and just how long this new
> name he works under has been up.
> ??? How many names has he had to use to get back
> on this forum.
> Paul is very tolerant of those who mess up and
> wish to come back, just surprised that he let
> HACKER on again.


Ron

You do not have a clue what a hacker is. There are no wild claims here by me. YOU HAVE NOT TRIED AT-5, SO SHUT UP PLEASE. Grow up, and except what you are. You sold products that are no different than all the other products.Bud's products , or Mequiar's , they are all the same. Wax is Wax . Polish is polish.

This post has zero logic to it. You continue to post here with the rambling of a GRUMPY old man who interjects on a subject he knows nothing about. You complain about my videos, but what the hell have you posted , but your job resume.


Listen to this quote:

Quote: Bud
I know nothing about Ketch's chemicals, I only know the man and if his company's chemicals are anything like him then detailers cannot go wrong using his chemicals.


Quote:Bud
It is clear that Ketch's company has one of the finest lines of chemicals in the industry and yet they get only a token amount of business from detailers on this forum.


This is what you consider logic? Really? You cannot see the contradiction here? Because Bud says you are a nice guy
that implies the your old company had one finest lines besides Bud's of course.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2012 02:11AM by detailer.

Hey, "HACK", I don't require a "clue", you provide all that is required to recognize one, and you are that, "HACKER"!

Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail right on the head.
Now, next time use a bigger hammer, as the HACKER has such a thick head that an air gun nailer may be needed.

HACKER, go back, you know the thread and my answer.
I did test it, my people tested it, and it is not a bad product, as I stated in the thread you chose to ignore.
So, why do you HACKER, chose to ignore that information, which you can do with your "post of past threads" for all to see?

detailer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Wax is Wax .
> Polish is polish.
>


Welcome to the 21st century! You are really showing not only your age, but your intelligence level with comments like that.

When is the last time you actually polished a car? What is the last polish or "poli-sealant" you've tested? Do you even know how to use a high powered buffer? Or are you brainwashed by GEM into thinking their slow assss buffer is all you need?

Looks like Bill's inner brain demons possessed by his split personality is making him edit his threads again. Just proves that he's constantly putting his foot in his mouth and trying to back track.

Bill - post what you want to say and stop editing your threads. Use spell checker if you can't spell.

Pro-Techt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your arrogance and ignorance is so thick you can
> cut it with a knife. Keep on thinking everyone is
> wrong and you are right. There's a medical
> condition associated with this you know.
>
> The only good you serve is 2-fold actually:
>
> 1- a good pin cushion for amusement
> 2- job security for real detailers


David

You are like a record with a message that has no solution to swirl marks. You ramble on with insults as your only defense.

Remember this statement:

I think you have alot of decent things to contribute and also aren't afraid of voicing them.

You must be bi-polar?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2012 02:34AM by detailer.

The solution to swirl marks is to not create them in the 1st place. On cars I've corrected and maintained, swirls don't come back. They're 100% gone from the finish. I'd feel like a failure and a cheat to consider myself a "detailer" if I posted videos like yours with swirled up cars claiming how wonderful your AT-5 is. You're no different then all the other Florida hacks driving around overselling their all mightly miracle sealer. How ironic that GEM is located in FL where they can be the leader of the blind.

Here we go again with Bill editing his threads:

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2012 10:34PM by detailer.

Let's look back.
When the metal jacketed GEM orbital came on the market, really a move forward for the carwash detailers.
It could apply and remove the polish and then the wax, without the carwash owner having to pay for their untrained people to use it.
Then came the two guys from Orange County, California, who owned and operated several carwash and detailing operations, and they "re-created " the machine, but in a state of the art at the time, plastic housing and much more user friendly.
At the time, a few decades ago, what a leap forward!
Since they spent the time and money, to move it forward and most important, it was able to obtain a UL safety rating, which the GEM unit could not obtain.(as far as I am aware, GEM still does not have a UL approval, but that may have changed)
That meant that the large purchasers, due to insurance costs, moved over to the WaxMaster unit.
Later, the guys sold off the patents and such to Chamberlin, which then really marketed it. They private labeled it for large consumer companies such as Craftsman, etc.
Technology moves everything forward, from equipment to the chemicals, and most companies have taken that path.
Today, even Sears has backed off of big dollar promotion of the orbital buffer that they used to sell tons of, (anyone recall the "Father's Day Bucket Promo"of the orbital and some towels and polish/wax) the chain auto parts stores no longer keep a dozen on the shelf, they have moved on, even Harbor Frieght is finding it necessary to offer up their unit at "sale" pricing every month or so. Why, simple the world has moved on, and time for all to move on and get with what is the newer technology, be it machines or products.
They constantly seek out new chemical compounds, formulas, manufactuering processes, packaging, etc.
GEM has not demonstrated such actions.
Guess the owner is just standing pat and made his money, now like some other products on the market, living off what little marketing life is left and then walk away with the money in their pockets.
When is the last time anyone reading this has seen any sort of marketing to any market, by GEM?
Why is it that the products they market are not at least sold by the low ball price marketers on the net, etc.
I am not including such as EBay, etc, but true, modern marketing.
The company I retired from does not market directly on EBay or other sites, as that is not what their target market is, never has been.
The old company produces and sells more product, every month to Ford, GM, Chrysler, etc under private label, than most would ever believe.
I used to tell some folks that our plant spilled more in a week while filling containers than most sold in a year, and that is still true.
The companies such as Mother's, Mequiars, Dura-Gloss, Lucas, etc, etc are mass marketing focused and have done very well by chosing that as their market and I know most of the people in these organizations and have had some good, over drinks, conversations regarding marketing directions, costs, etc. Very enlighting conversations.
It is not rocket science to produce a formula of a product that is as good or better than most are aware of.
What is difficult is to define/find a market for such products and produce and sell it at a reasonable profit.
What the end marketer chooses to sell it at, is not the concern of the supplier of the product.
Which is why one can find a Tommy Hillfinger shirt for $100 but if they know how to read some numbers on the tag, can by the same shirt for $20 with a lesser know label on it, made by the same supplier in the same country, etc.
Same shirt, but ego's come into play.
This is a short "education" regarding what we all have available to purchase, there are some quality products, there are some not so good and then there is "junk", but it up to the end purchaser to make a decision based upon what fulfills their wants, needs and desires.

Pro-Techt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The solution to swirl marks is to not create them
> in the 1st place. On cars I've corrected and
> maintained, swirls don't come back. They're 100%
> gone from the finish. I'd feel like a failure and
> a cheat to consider myself a "detailer" if I
> posted videos like yours with swirled up cars
> claiming how wonderful your AT-5 is. You're no
> different then all the other Florida hacks driving
> around overselling their all mightly miracle
> sealer. How ironic that GEM is located in FL where
> they can be the leader of the blind.


David

The solution to swirl marks is to not create them
> in the 1st place. On cars I've corrected and
> maintained, swirls don't come back. They're 100%
> gone from the finish.


You have mentioned before you go back several times a year doing minor correction. I can find the quote if needed!
At least I have used one product that I believe in.

Ron and David

I do not wish to respond to your 3rd grade insults any longer. Real pros would offer something beyond what you are posting.

Good info on the GEM buffer aka Wax Spreader. I'd be willing to bet it's about as outdated as their AT-5.

I actually called and spoke to GEM's owner a little while back. Oh boy, was that an interesting and scary conversation. He's about as clueless as ole Hack man himself. Like talking to his conjoined twin. Like buffers are bad, blah, blah, blah, blah. AT-5 is a miracle product, blah, blah, blah, blah. I asked him for a sample and he said no. No that's a company that believes in their product?? And that's when he told me about Bill and how he used to sell AT-5 for him, but stopped their business relationship. Seems like with all this AT-5 pushing he does, he should be letting him back in for a 2nd chance? Guess not huh?

Ketch22 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's look back.
> When the metal jacketed GEM orbital came on the
> market, really a move forward for the carwash
> detailers.
> It could apply and remove the polish and then the
> wax, without the carwash owner having to pay for
> their untrained people to use it.
> Then came the two guys from Orange County,
> California, who owned and operated several carwash
> and detailing operations, and they "re-created "
> the machine, but in a state of the art at the
> time, plastic housing and much more user
> friendly.
> At the time, a few decades ago, what a leap
> forward!
> Since they spent the time and money, to move it
> forward and most important, it was able to obtain
> a UL safety rating, which the GEM unit could not
> obtain.(as far as I am aware, GEM still does not
> have a UL approval, but that may have changed)
> That meant that the large purchasers, due to
> insurance costs, moved over to the WaxMaster
> unit.
> Later, the guys sold off the patents and such to
> Chamberlin, which then really marketed it. They
> private labeled it for large consumer companies
> such as Craftsman, etc.
> Technology moves everything forward, from
> equipment to the chemicals, and most companies
> have taken that path.
> Today, even Sears has backed off of big dollar
> promotion of the orbital buffer that they used to
> sell tons of, (anyone recall the "Father's Day
> Bucket Promo"of the orbital and some towels and
> polish/wax) the chain auto parts stores no longer
> keep a dozen on the shelf, they have moved on,
> even Harbor Frieght is finding it necessary to
> offer up their unit at "sale" pricing every month
> or so. Why, simple the world has moved on, and
> time for all to move on and get with what is the
> newer technology, be it machines or products.
> They constantly seek out new chemical compounds,
> formulas, manufactuering processes, packaging,
> etc.
> GEM has not demonstrated such actions.
> Guess the owner is just standing pat and made his
> money, now like some other products on the market,
> living off what little marketing life is left and
> then walk away with the money in their pockets.
> When is the last time anyone reading this has seen
> any sort of marketing to any market, by GEM?
> Why is it that the products they market are not at
> least sold by the low ball price marketers on the
> net, etc.
> I am not including such as EBay, etc, but true,
> modern marketing.
> The company I retired from does not market
> directly on EBay or other sites, as that is not
> what their target market is, never has been.
> The old company produces and sells more product,
> every month to Ford, GM, Chrysler, etc under
> private label, than most would ever believe.
> I used to tell some folks that our plant spilled
> more in a week while filling containers than most
> sold in a year, and that is still true.
> The companies such as Mother's, Mequiars,
> Dura-Gloss, Lucas, etc, etc are mass marketing
> focused and have done very well by chosing that as
> their market and I know most of the people in
> these organizations and have had some good, over
> drinks, conversations regarding marketing
> directions, costs, etc. Very enlighting
> conversations.
> It is not rocket science to produce a formula of a
> product that is as good or better than most are
> aware of.
> What is difficult is to define/find a market for
> such products and produce and sell it at a
> reasonable profit.
> What the end marketer chooses to sell it at, is
> not the concern of the supplier of the product.
> Which is why one can find a Tommy Hillfinger shirt
> for $100 but if they know how to read some numbers
> on the tag, can by the same shirt for $20 with a
> lesser know label on it, made by the same supplier
> in the same country, etc.
> Same shirt, but ego's come into play.
> This is a short "education" regarding what we all
> have available to purchase, there are some quality
> products, there are some not so good and then
> there is "junk", but it up to the end purchaser to
> make a decision based upon what fulfills their
> wants, needs and desires.

detailer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pro-Techt Wrote:
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> The solution to swirl marks is to not create them
> > in the 1st place. On cars I've corrected and
> > maintained, swirls don't come back. They're
> 100% gone from the finish.
>
>
> You have mentioned before you go back several
> times a year doing minor correction. I can find
> the quote if needed!
> At least I have used one product that I believe
> in







Read again what I said.........
On cars I've maintained meaning washed.

All the cars I go back to do light corrections on are the ones that I don't "maintain"
.