How much time

Ok guys, I'm curious to know how much time I should allow for the different services I will be offering. Right now I am still putting together a list of my different services but I have list some examples below. The detail services are still being fine tuned but will include everythin in the Gold service with more attention on the engine, clay bar, and buffing etc. I'm curious to know what you guys see time wise when you are doing your different services. This is just with me doing the work. The plan is to have 1-2 employees by the summer of 2013 so I know the time will decrease with 2 people as opposed to 1. I hope to open the business by spring of 2013. Also, is anyone using a canopy as part of your set up? If so, would I be asking too much for pictures of the set up? Thanks in advance.

1. Bronze Car wash- hand wash and dry. vacuum carpets, mats & seats, wipe down interior compenents, clean windows, wipe down wheels.

2. Gold Car wash- hand wash and dry. vacuum carpets, mats & seats, wipe down interior compenents & clean door jams, clean windows,clean wheels/tires & apply tire dressings, Apply engine degreaser.

3. Express Detail-

4.Full Detail-

5. Platinum Detail-

Every vehicle and customer is different.
Until one performs a true, written, take some time, diagnois of the vehicle, there is not "real labor time" that can be presented.
Even when one that has years of experience of doing such work, sometimes, we all run into things that are going to take more time.
Which is why I offered up on Autopia.org, the "Inspection form", which also creates other safety factors, sales opportunities for a full time detailer.
This form was created for Chrysler Canada dealers and such car sale companies as AutoNation, Delta Sonic, etc.
The form is available for free, on it is most of what one needs to move the client forward to purchasing one's services, and reduces the legal potential for the detailer.
Is it perfect? That depends on each detailers vision of what it takes to do what.
Does it work?
Yes, and it is free, just contact beth@autoint.com and request that she email you form.
If doesn't fit your needs, what are you out, a couple of minutes of your time.
If it does, and used correctly, it can increase your per vehicle gross by quite a bit.
Grumpy

Thanks Grumpy,

I will contact Beth for sure. What about my canopy question? Do you think it is a wise investment? If so what size would you recomend?

Don't know what to advise regarding the canopy.
They can sure help with drawing customers in and of course reduce heat on the vehicle surface, etc.
Just never had one personally, although know many detailers who swear by them.
Grumpy

Thanks for your help sir. Much appreciated.

I got an undeliverable message at the email you gave me for Beth. I have it as beth@autoint.com, is that correct?

Just a comment:

Every vehicle is different as far time needed.

Here is something Ron forgot to mention about his inspection form here:

And the best part, it provides you the opportunity to "up-sell" additional correctional services,


If you do what ever other detailer does than you will need his liability form. I did what you are attempting to do for many years without a form. Why? Because I do not "up-sell "services for profit. I am not against making money, but providing
a worth while service is more important than creating work for me in the future.

Thanks detailer for your input. I understand the point you are making. I really didn't see it as Grumpy trying to get me to up sell, although who wouldn't like to make more money on a job than originally forecasted? What are you thoughts on the canopy idea? I live in Texas and summers are HOT here.

I understand completely you want to make money, but what makes you any different from anyone else doing the same thing in Texas? Are you the only mobile detailer in Texas? Hardly.

Please understand I am not trying to be a downer, but what are your plans to make money? Sure a canopy is not a bad idea for not having to work in the sun, but what are your plans for success? Why should your potential customers use you, and what do you offer that is special that will cause them to call you back besides what you charge?

Who are your customers going to be ,and how do you plan to contact them? What talent do you have besides washing
a car ,vac the interior,and applying wax? Can you clean carpets, and cloth seats. Do you know how to remove hard water spots off glass?

What kind of soap do you plan to wash the vehicles with? How do you plan to deal with customers with swirl mark problems caused from your washing. The questions just go on and on. It has taken me years to become knowledgeable thru hard knocks and years of trail and error.


Where I live in Florida there are many guys like you who come and go in this business. Yes, you can make money in this business, but everything is in the eye of your customer. What they think is what is important, and not what you think. These are just my own thoughts that you may consider before opening your business.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2012 09:58PM by detailer.

bethb@autoint.com

Thanks Grumpy, email has been sent.

detailer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand completely you want to make money,
> but what makes you any different from anyone else
> doing the same thing in Texas? Are you the only
> mobile detailer in Texas? Hardly.
>
> Please understand I am not trying to be a downer,
> but what are your plans to make money? Sure a
> canopy is not a bad idea for not having to work in
> the sun, but what are your plans for success? Why
> should your potential customers use you, and what
> do you offer that is special that will cause them
> to call you back besides what you charge?

I don't see you as being a downer here, I see that you are trying to get me to think about several things and this is the feedback I joined this forum for. I am in the beginning stages of this.
>
> Who are your customers going to be ,and how do you
> plan to contact them? What talent do you have
> besides washing
> a car ,vac the interior,and applying wax? Can you
> clean carpets, and cloth seats. Do you know how to
> remove hard water spots off glass?

I have a carpet cleaner so that will be part of my services offered. But maybe you could shed some light on how to clean hard water spots?
>
> What kind of soap do you plan to wash the vehicles
> with? How do you plan to deal with customers with
> swirl mark problems caused from your washing. The
> questions just go on and on. It has taken me years
> to become knowledgeable thru hard knocks and years
> of trail and error.
>
swirl mark removal is something I am certainly going to offer in the near future. Starting out I will not offer that as part of my services as I really want to get more hands on training with that.
>
> Where I live in Florida there are many guys like
> you who come and go in this business. Yes, you can
> make money in this business, but everything is in
> the eye of your customer. What they think is what
> is important, and not what you think. These are
> just my own thoughts that you may consider before
> opening your business.

Failure is not an option but i will add that this will not be my only source of income. I hope to get it to a level where i am making more than half of my yearly salary I make now. Again thanks for your input. I welcome it all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2012 03:41PM by personal touch.

swirl mark removal is something I am certainly going to offer in the near future.




Let me offer some advice. You will be opening up a BIG can of problems.

Detailer, eleborate please. How so? Personally I feel swirl marks removal is part of doing this business is it not? Keep in mind you and others have WAY more experience than I do, so please feel me in on some of the ins and outs of this business. PM me if you want to, I'm just looking for some good advice on this.

Thanks

As I said before what makes you different from any other detailer. They offer correction also, but take a look at how many hours they are spending doing one vehicle. It can range from 10 - 50 hours. Now,what do you plan to charge for that? Let's say $45/hr, so let's say it takes you 10 hours which works out to $450. Now, how many people do you know have that kind of money to throw around these days?

Now lets say you get this job, and it turns out well when done, but some time down the road the customer comes back
saying the swirls you corrected are back. So what do you do then? Charge more? Not likely , so you are doing that same car over on your dime. Or else, that customer does not come back, and shows all his/her friends your work. Do you think you will get any referrals? Not likely.


Pro-tech and Ron worked for car dealers who were only concerned with making a vehicle look good long enough to sell for the cheapest price. If the customer who bought the car complained,it was no big deal to them because they get paid by the dealer. Usually, the dealer will do nothing to fix the problem, or make the problem worse leaving the customers with the problem of making his car not look like a freak show mirror,


I approached this situation in a whole different manor. I realized what the real cause of swirl marks were. Many detailers today approach this problem as management of the problem thru constant use of correction which is very time consuming. Also, it wears down the clear coat which reduces the shine. Basically, using waxes and poly sealants
is the source of the problem, and what others mention are the reasons.

I have used one product since 1989 which is called AT-5 which is sold privately. It is a true acrylic formulation that bonds to acrylic polyurethanes clear coats. It does not produce swirl marks , nor does it require constant correction
either.

What makes me different from other detailers were I live is that I offer real paint protection to my customers for a fair
price. They can wash their car with real soap (DAWN) that removes the dirt and grime, or go thru a car wash and not worry that they will strip the the product off. Bugs, tree sap.salt , or UV/heat will not damage the paint finish for one year.

Basically, they call me once a year, and it takes me around 3 hours to do a full detail on their vehicle at their home or business. Here is a video of one of my old customers who is call me.

[www.youtube.com]






M

Personal Touch,

You are welcome, by the way, I never, in my professional adult career, ever worked as a detailer for a car dealer.
You are on the right track of "learning the correct way to perform the many required processes to correct the many concerns of customers vehicles".
As in any professional career, a path was defined centuries ago, to obtain true, recognized status in a chosen profession.
Be it a doctor, an attorney, a tax accountant, mechanic, home builder, and on and on, it is this.
Education, which provides Knowledge, which then provides the skills to be Diagnoistic, for without Diagnoistic skills gained, one does not know what correct Procedure one should take to obtain needed and required results.
Once the Procedure is determined, then the Process is performed.
The last step in being a Professional, is Continuing Education regarding advances in one's chosen field of endevor.
Recap-
Education
Knowledge
Diagnostic
Procedure
Process
Continuing Education
In your chosen path, there is a continuing change/evolution, in everything from the paint systems used, the interior materials, exterior trim, etc, as the automotive manufacturer's are always moving forward with such advances in these and other areas of a vehicle.
Sounds simple, but for many it is just a bunch of "words", which they then reject out of hand.
While very simple, it may be expanded upon, however the basics will always return to the simple layout I just provided.
Good luck,
Grumpy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2012 04:16PM by Ketch22.

Generic question here. What is the main cause for swirl marks? I have read everything from improper washing(hand) methods, to automatic brushes at full service car wash etc. Is there a place where I can go to read up on proper car wash methods to avoid swirl marks?

Detailer, why is AT-5 sold privately? what makes it any better than any other of the sealants/protectants out there? You've sparked my interest in it. I have spent the last hour or so reading some of the other threads by you on this product. But I also see others are not buying into it. I guess I will learn more and more about how things are done in the business but I hope to get good sound advice on this forum as I have not found any other forums I can join to get advice. If anyone know of other forums that could be of assistance to me please share. What about autogeek i thinks its called? Is there a forum for it? Man I'm thirsty for knowledge.

Grumpy your last post makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the knowledge. I will be in the need to purchase some products in the next few months so I hope to get some ideas as to who I should contact etc.

Thank you both for your help thus far.

autopia.org may be the place for you to start your quest.
Grumpy

Detailer, why is AT-5 sold privately? what makes it any better than any other of the sealants/protectants out there? You've sparked my interest in it. I have spent the last hour or so reading some of the other threads by you on this product. But I also see others are not buying into it.


Gem industries sells the product, but they do not promote the way it should IMO. They do not sell it to retail customers like Mequiars does.
"
What makes it better than other sealants is what I just explained to you. The term "sealant" really does not mean much. Wax by some people is considered a sealant. Wax and poly sealants just stick to the clear coats, but do not bond.As a result, simple washing with a weak soap is needed so it it will not strip the coating off thus causing swirls and scratches .

Poly sealants were introduced because they can withstand more washings, but in no way offer any real protection.
To many beading is considered protection,and shine is the only criteria.In fact, they are worse than wax because they are harder to remove.

The major problem with waxes and poly sealants is that it comes to a point where you cannot apply more of these products without removing them. You will notice that correction detailers use harsh soaps prior to polishing to remove them. They believe that removes all of them which I do not at all.


Then they use wet sanding , compounding, glazes, and polishes to restore the finish, and top it off with more wax or poly sealants. Have they fixed the problem, or just covered it up for a short while? Notice in my last post, the author
believes that clear coat paint has pores like skin, and it expands and contracts given different temps.If he is right,
these products are forced down into these pores which become hard to remove. Things like dirt , grime, pollen and other things are trapped there.

At-5 goes down into the pores and seal them creating a real barrier. Since AT-5 is an acrylic, and so is the clear coat it bonds to the paint. It does not allow dirt, grime , and other things into it. Thus it does not break down, and does not produce swirl marks

It does not require removal before another coat can be applied, so correction is not needed. Normally washing with Dawn and a clay bar is all that is needed.

Why do others here do not buy what I am saying. Well,that is a good question. No one has tried the product, but they are sure I am wrong. Go figure, you would think people would be interested in this info.

You are welcome, by the way, I never, in my professional adult career, ever worked as a detailer for a car dealer.


Quote from Ron:

Number of vehicles I supervised as an owner or manager, detailed, would be in the upper 10's of thousands of vehicles.

At Automotive International there is a subsidary business to the ValuGard Products, it is ValuGard Auto Processing, where dealers throughout Cincinnati either bring or have the auto transports drop off new vehicles for predelivery of the them or they bring their used vehicles for cosmetic reconditioning, plus private individuals have their vehicles detailed-the facility does varying volume of vehicles per year, however on average of 1,000 per month, and has done so for since the late 80's. I was the Vice President of Operations of that unit and was well known for jumping in and getting my hands dirty, teaching, mentoring, all that a good manager does.


Ron

You are right that you did not get your hands dirty as a car detailer at a dealership. Although, what I said is true.
Your company gets paid by the dealer , and do not have to deal with complaints from the person who buys the car.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2012 07:12PM by detailer.

detailer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Detailer, why is AT-5 sold privately? what makes
> it any better than any other of the
> sealants/protectants out there? You've sparked my
> interest in it. I have spent the last hour or so
> reading some of the other threads by you on this
> product. But I also see others are not buying into
> it.
>
>
> Gem industries sells the product, but they do not
> promote the way it should IMO. They do not sell it
> to retail customers like Mequiars does.
> "
> What makes it better than other sealants is what I
> just explained to you. The term "sealant" really
> does not mean much. Wax by some people is
> considered a sealant. Wax and poly sealants just
> stick to the clear coats, but do not bond.As a
> result, simple washing with a weak soap is needed
> so it it will not strip the coating off thus
> causing swirls and scratches .
>
> Poly sealants were introduced because they can
> withstand more washings, but in no way offer any
> real protection.
> To many beading is considered protection,and shine
> is the only criteria.In fact, they are worse than
> wax because they are harder to remove.
>
> The major problem with waxes and poly sealants is
> that it comes to a point where you cannot apply
> more of these products without removing them. You
> will notice that correction detailers use harsh
> soaps prior to polishing to remove them. They
> believe that removes all of them which I do not at
> all.
>
>
> Then they use wet sanding , compounding, glazes,
> and polishes to restore the finish, and top it off
> with more wax or poly sealants. Have they fixed
> the problem, or just covered it up for a short
> while? Notice in my last post, the author
> believes that clear coat paint has pores like
> skin, and it expands and contracts given different
> temps.If he is right,
> these products are forced down into these pores
> which become hard to remove. Things like dirt ,
> grime, pollen and other things are trapped there.
>
> At-5 goes down into the pores and seal them
> creating a real barrier. Since AT-5 is an acrylic,
> and so is the clear coat it bonds to the paint. It
> does not allow dirt, grime , and other things into
> it. Thus it does not break down, and does not
> produce swirl marks
>
> It does not require removal before another coat
> can be applied, so correction is not needed.
> Normally washing with Dawn and a clay bar is all
> that is needed.
>
> Why do others here do not buy what I am saying.
> Well,that is a good question. No one has tried the
> product, but they are sure I am wrong. Go figure,
> you would think people would be interested in this
> info.


Something to ponder over the weekend thanks for the info. How would one get this product to sample? By the way, I am using my SUV as the guinee pig as it has a bad case of swirl marks. Not by me of course, bought it from a family member and noticed them from day one. He never washed it himself. Always took it to a full service car wash.

How would one get this product to sample? By the way, I am using my SUV as the guinee pig as it has a bad case of swirl marks. Not by me of course, bought it from a family member and noticed them from day one. He never washed it himself. Always took it to a full service car wash.

I would start out first with Gem pre-treatment plus first. This has some protection qualities , but it is a awesome pre-cleaner. It is easy to work with by hand, and it will get those swirls right out. Here is a link:

[qnm09.securesites.net]
Hit the Chemicals button and then scroll down to pre-treatment plus

You can order a quart for $14.00

I would suggest using this first, and if you like it you can order the AT-5. I have used this for years to remove salt build up from boats.

This product is AT-5 under another name, but you can see how good this product is.

[www.slideshare.net]

Check out slides 41- 46


[www.youtube.com]



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2012 10:46PM by detailer.