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Poll

Posted by billd55 
Poll
February 06, 2012 08:50PM
Poll
7 votes were received.
All visitors can vote.
Which is more important to you concerning the sealant you use to protect your vehicle paint?




This poll is for people who actually own vehicles, and use wax and sealants.
Re: Poll
February 09, 2012 02:37AM
Neither one gets my vote because I don't use wax or sealants to create shine. I polish the paint because the shine it creates is better and will not go away until it's re-marred (a long ways down the road). Anytime you apply a product that dramatically creates more shine it's short lived. After polishing, waxes/sealants do very little to improve the paint's appearance.

Beading is nice to look at, but doesn't equate to protection. If you want *real* long term protection, you need to apply a *real* sacrifial layer to the paint and the only way to do that is with a paint coating.
Re: Poll
February 09, 2012 02:11PM
Quote:

If you want *real* long term protection, you need to apply a *real* sacrifial layer to the paint and the only way to do that is with a paint coating.

What product exactly do you suggest to use? A polish offers no protection, and wax/poly sealants either. Also,
what do you define as *real* long term protection exactly?

Is this what you consider an example of a *real* sacrifial layer to the paint and the only way to do that is with a paint coating.

[www.autopia.org]
Re: Poll
February 09, 2012 03:06PM
billd55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:
>
>
What product exactly do you suggest to use? Also, what do you define as *real* long term protection
exactly?


I suggest Optimum Opti-Coat. You can't kill the product. It doesn't wear away.

billd55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:
>
>
A polish offers no protection, and wax/poly sealant either.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't AT-5 a sealant?

billd55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:
>
>
>
> Is this what you consider an example of a *real*
> sacrifial layer to the paint and the only way to
> do that is with a paint coating.
>
No, I consider this: [www.autopia.org]
Re: Poll
February 09, 2012 05:33PM
Quote:


I suggest Optimum Opti-Coat. You can't kill the product. It doesn't wear away.


Opti -Coat is a much better alternative than wax or poly sealants hands down, and from what I have read it does not wear off.Although, it does have one drawback.It can only be removed by polishing or chemical paint removers. That means it is not easily removed if needed. That may not be a big thing, but it could.

You can reapply Opti-Coat according to Dr. G:

Once Opti-Coat cures, it will repel most everything even the fresh resin. If you have to recoat a section, you will have to polish the entire panel first with Optimum Polish or Optimum Finish. Then, you will need to wipe the panel down with a damp microfiber towel to remove any residue before reapplying Opti-Coat 2.0 to the entire panel.

This requires polishing and some work, but IMO it does lead to swirl mark problems which is what is important if Opti-Coat is reapplied. Although, my concern is that if people apply wax/ sealants over this product it will defeat the purpose of what this sealant is trying to accomplish which is to prevent over polishing and swirl marks.

I found this statement quite interesting from Dr.G

As a paint chemist, I was always puzzled why people over-polish their car paint and cause the paint to fail prematurely (we all have seen examples of clearcoat failure).

The reason IMO is that the industry has been using waxes/ poly sealants for ever which leads to swirl marks ,and then over polishing.


Quote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't AT-5 a sealant?


You are right it is a sealant, but then again so is wax and poly sealants also. Really, the term has a vague meaning .
in the industry. Opti-Coat could be considered a sealant also. The real question is how well does it bond and what does it seal the paint from.


I
Re: Poll
February 09, 2012 05:57PM
Pro-Techt

We have had several newbies coming to this forum looking for advise on how to start a low cost detailing business.
What would it take as far as cost and training goes for these people to apply Opti-Coat on people's newer cars. Flaws
would be much more easy to correct if needed as far as real scratches are concerned, and swirl mark problems
would be a thing of the past. It sure makes more sense than telling them to slap wax on people's vehicles, or buy a
polisher and DA to fix flaws IMO with no experience.
Re: Poll
February 09, 2012 10:33PM
Bill - stay on track with the discusion here. smiling smiley We're talking about true protection. Opti-Coat is true protection via a sacrifical barrier that blocks out pretty much every environmental concern one would have from damaing the paint it's protecting. And yes, it can't be easily removed which is one thing that makes it so great. You don't need to keep reappling the product either. Just one time. And, the coating can even be lightly polished without damaging it. I don't know any other product that can do this.
Re: Poll
February 09, 2012 10:41PM
billd55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pro-Techt
>
> We have had several newbies coming to this forum
> looking for advise on how to start a low cost
> detailing business.
> What would it take as far as cost and training
> goes for these people to apply Opti-Coat on
> people's newer cars. Flaws
> would be much more easy to correct if needed as
> far as real scratches are concerned, and swirl
> mark problems
> would be a thing of the past. It sure makes more
> sense than telling them to slap wax on people's
> vehicles, or buy a
> polisher and DA to fix flaws IMO with no
> experience.


This is my opionion and may not reflect Optimums:

From a prefessional level, I don't feel OC (Opti-Coat) should be applied by people who aren't well versed on paint correction. Otherwise, they could end up thinking it's ok to apply this coating to paint that could be end up having a need for correction. I will only apply OC to perfect paint or paint that the owner is 100% happy with appearance wise. Otherwise, if they change their mind after the coating has been applied it will be tedious to remove to achieve the post intended level of paint perfection. In other words, it's best to apply this product to perfectly prepped paint. Many detailers aren't equipped to do this.
Re: Poll
February 10, 2012 08:00PM
Quote from Pro-Pro Techt

We're talking about true protection. Opti-Coat is true protection via a sacrifical barrier that blocks out pretty much every environmental concern one would have from damaing the paint it's protecting. And yes, it can't be easily removed which is one thing that makes it so great. You don't need to keep reappling the product either.

I agree it is true protection, but if it can be easilly removed than why do you say this:

Otherwise, if they change their mind after the coating has been applied it will be tedious to remove to achieve the post intended level of paint perfection. In other words, it's best to apply this product to perfectly prepped paint. Many detailers aren't equipped to do this.


Quote:

You don't need to keep reappling the product either. Just one time. And, the coating can even be lightly polished without damaging it. I don't know any other product that can do this


Well, you are not completely right on this statement. Since you have never used AT-5 , and fairly new to Opti- Coat I can see
how you would make this statement.

AT-5 will offer full protection for 5 years, but the shine will diminish over time. Much the same way you would lightly polish
Opti-Coat. I would reapply another coat of AT-5 for the same reason. By doing this I am doing two things. Main full protection and shine.
Re: Poll
February 10, 2012 09:12PM
Re-read my post. I never said wrote that it *can* be easily removed.


Are you then saying that AT-5 can be machine polished without any need to reapply it?

Opti-coat doesn't diminish over time and doesn't need reapplication. When applied, it also doesn't add shine either. It's just like applying additional hydrophobic clearcoat paint to your vehicle.

Opti-coat is also much harder then any clearcoat used on today's vehicles as well which means it is also much less prone to marring/scratching. This means that once you apply this product chances are that you might never need to repolish the surface again providing that you use the proper wash regiment.

Also, keep in mind that Opti-Coat adds thickness to the film build of your finish. No wax or sealant can do that. That, in itself, is what makes this a product a coating.
Re: Poll
February 11, 2012 12:33AM
Quote:

Re-read my post. I never said wrote that it *can* be easily removed.

I am sorry you are right I did misread it


Quote:

Are you then saying that AT-5 can be machine polished without any need to reapply it?

No. Not at all. Once I apply a hand applied coat of AT-5, the paint is sealed and fully protected. I assume that by this statement you are saying Opti-Coat has little shine.

When applied, it also doesn't add shine either. It's just like applying additional hydrophobic clearcoat paint to your vehicle.

Well it is quite the opposite with AT-5, The shine with AT-5 is awesome. Usually , the polishing you talk about is not needed.
I realize this a strange concept to you, and I get that. Since swirl marks never happen with this product, and no damage happens from things like bird crap, and tree sap polishing is not needed.I apply additional hand applied coats when needed more for shine reason. People come to expect that mirror like deep shine.


Quote:

Also, keep in mind that Opti-Coat adds thickness to the film build of your finish. No wax or sealant can do that. That, in itself, is what makes this a product a coating.

This what I like about this product, and you are correct when you say this: No wax or sealant can do that. That, in itself, is what makes this a product a coating.
Re: Poll
February 12, 2012 10:52PM
billd55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:
>
> Well it is quite the opposite with AT-5, The
> shine with AT-5 is awesome. Usually , the
> polishing you talk about is not needed.
> I realize this a strange concept to you, and I get
> that. Since swirl marks never happen with this
> product, and no damage happens from things like
> bird crap, and tree sap polishing is not needed.I
> apply additional hand applied coats when needed
> more for shine reason. People come to expect that
> mirror like deep shine.
>
>

Unless you've seen paint perfectly polished to the highest level it might be difficult to image. I'm only assuming, but you might think that the paint on a brand new car from the factory is about as good as it gets. I can assure you that is not the case. You can certainly create a much better finish(shine/gloss/depth) by high powered polishing. No wax or sealant will improve upon that unless it's via temporary means. This alteration will be short lived.

Once you create this incredible finish, Opti-Coat locks it in and preserves it. The only way that this shine will deteriorate is by marring the coating itself which is very unlikely if proper wash methods are carried out. Once this occurs you only need to lightly polish the coating. No reapplication is needed because this coating's thickness is still intack.

At this point, I'm not sure what you consider "swirl marks"? I consider them as micromarring caused by washing or improper touching of the finish. The car videos you've posted show these exact swirls in the finish of most of these cars that have AT-5 applied. I just don't know how you can say that "Since swirl marks never happen with this product, and no damage happens from things like bird crap, and tree sap polishing is not needed" when they have been captured in your videos? It's totally contradicatory. I also remember seeing another vehicle that had bird crap etching too yet you say that AT-5 protects against this? Here's that video: [www.youtube.com]

Also, because you feel the need to reapply AT-5 yearly to bring back the shine, how do you know that this lost shine didn't happen 3-4 months (or sooner) after applying it? If these car owners don't see these swirls I have a hard time believing they can see this loss in shine you speak of.them expecting. Just saying....
Re: Poll
February 13, 2012 01:47AM
Quote from Pro Techt

Once you create this incredible finish, Opti-Coat locks it in and preserves it. The only way that this shine will deteriorate is by marring the coating itself which is very unlikely if proper wash methods are carried out. Once this occurs you only need to lightly polish the coating. No reapplication is needed because this coating's thickness is still intack.

I agree to a point. Maybe reapplication is not needed, but as you said it is still just a clear coat. If Opti- Coat is so tough,
why are special wash methods needed, or light polishing either? What does the deterioration look like, and what are the causes of it?

Quote:
At this point, I'm not sure what you consider "swirl marks"? I consider them as micromarring caused by washing or improper touching of the finish. The car videos you've posted show these exact swirls in the finish of most of these cars that have AT-5 applied.

Sorry, but you are wrong here. The marks you bring up are not from improper washing, and they are actual scratches in the paint. I did not do these cars brand new, so I do not get your point here. I never said AT-5 fixes problems, it prevents them.

None of my videos remotely look like this car for example. [www.autopia.org]. Look closely at the Jeep, Tahoe, White lexus , and even the Red Lexus video and tell me that they look like this example. Even the green Ford SUV after a year looked nothing like this.

Quote:

I just don't know how you can say that "Since swirl marks never happen with this product, and no damage happens from things like bird crap, and tree sap polishing is not needed" when they have been captured in your videos? It's totally contradicatory. I also remember seeing another vehicle that had bird crap etching too yet you say that AT-5 protects against this? Here's that video: [www.youtube.com]

That pickup truck was not done new , so I do not get your point here about me being contradictory. Look at the Jeep and Tahoe I did when new. There is no damage on the paint form tree sap or bird crap either. I washed the vehicles with Dawn,
but do these vehicles look anything like this black alpha spider? Where are the swirl marks on these 2007 vehicles that you say you see?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2012 01:52AM by billd55.
Re: Poll
February 14, 2012 10:59PM
Quote:
I agree to a point. Maybe reapplication is not needed, but as you said it is still just a clear coat. If Opti- Coat is so tough, why are special wash methods needed, or light polishing either? What does the deterioration look like, and what are the causes of it?

Again, re-read what I’m saying because you’re taking things out of context. I never said “special wash methods are needed”. My statement was “if proper wash methods are carried out”. That’s totally different. Nothing special or different is *needed* for a finish that is Opti-Coated or one that isn’t for that matter. And yes, because OC has similar properties as clearcoat paint it can also be scratched and marred (just like paint), but not as easy. As a matter of fact, it will scratch less because of its hardness and also it’s ability to shed dirt that could cause harm during the wash process. But, the big thing here is (now listen and follow this) is that if someone wishes to polish away light scratches/marring, you do it to the coating, not the paint, so you’re not wearing down the clearcoat. (again, sacrificial layer)



Quote:
Sorry, but you are wrong here. The marks you bring up are not from improper washing, and they are actual scratches in the paint. I did not do these cars brand new, so I do not get your point here. I never said AT-5 fixes problems, it prevents them.


Keep in mind that one of the key differences between scratches and swirls are that swirls can be polished out (removed with polishing) and scratches cannot because they are though the surface of the finish. Unless someone intentionally put scratches into most of these cars in hundreds, if not thousand of places, those are classic examples of car wash swirls. Whether they were there before or after you applied AT-5 makes no difference because they are there. And, they can be polished out. I bet you’d be amazed if you actually saw how dramatically better these cars could look if they were correctly polished instead of just AT-5’d.


Quote:
None of my videos remotely look like this car for example. [www.autopia.org]. Look closely at the Jeep, Tahoe, White lexus , and even the Red Lexus video and tell me that they look like this example. Even the green Ford SUV after a year looked nothing like this.


You’re might be right? But you’re also not using a high end video camera in a properly lit detailing studio to accentuate all the defects that this person did. Remember when I mentioned something about pulling your client’s vehicles into a dark garage and looking at the finish with halogen lights? You might feel differently if you did.



Quote:
That pickup truck was not done new , so I do not get your point here about me being contradictory. Look at the Jeep and Tahoe I did when new. There is no damage on the paint form tree sap or bird crap either. I washed the vehicles with Dawn,
but do these vehicles look anything like this black alpha spider? Where are the swirl marks on these 2007 vehicles that you say you see?

Maybe bird crap didn’t sit on the finish long enough to cause problems on the other cars you filmed? Bottom line is that the Toyota pick up was treated with AT-5 (a multi-year lasting product) and there is permanent poo etching as well as paint failure and “water spots”. You never mentioned anything about these defects being there before you AT-5'd it. I don’t know how you can say that AT-5 protects (long term) against this stuff and show an example of how it obviously didn’t and not see how that is contradictory?
Re: Poll
February 21, 2012 05:41PM
Interesting how 4 out of 5 people who voted think that sealants actually protect your finish from car washes. They certainly don't protect from the "soft" cloths car washes use that create swirls in everyone's finish. I guess that's creating more work for detailers that do correction....
Re: Poll
February 25, 2012 04:29PM
Pro-Techt :
Meguiar's trainer " Ron " says :
If you shine a flashlight at the paint and see tiny scratches that appear to radiate out from the spot of light, those are random scratches called cobwebbing or micro-marring or micro-scratches .

If the paint has circular swirl patterns scratched into it , those are swirl marks or " holograms " . AutoMagic's trainer says swirls can be caused by a lot of things .

It stands to reason that wax or sealant must offer at least some protection from abrasion to the paint .

Want to tell you- BTW- that Opti-coat sounds like a real scientific breakthrough. I can imagine big money being made by applying it to brand new fleets of delivery vans and other vehicles destined for hard use . Glad you discussed the product on the forum .

Doug
Re: Poll
August 16, 2012 03:34PM
Poll
February 06, 2012 03:50PM Registered: 2 years ago
Posts: 689
Poll
Which is more important to you concerning the sealant you use to protect your vehicle paint?
7 votes were received.
That it shines and beads water 1

14%
That it shines, truly protects the paint, and I can go thru a car wash without damage to the sealant 6

86%


Very interesting result, but not surprising .
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