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CLEAR COAT FAILURES
Posted by michael c
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CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 04, 2004 06:13PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 52 |
<HTML>a friend of mine's mazda 929 looks pretty badly damaged , the trunk and roof's clearcoat is pealing ...it looks like florida seen from the air (1000's of big and small lakes).
he thinks that it was from his son's laying on the roof while he was at the beach...
i told him there's no way that his son, in his right mind would do that (also there is not one dent...lol) and the seawater would not damage paint this easy...
but...and this is my question
how could he , if so, prevented this from happening?
thanks
michael c</HTML>
he thinks that it was from his son's laying on the roof while he was at the beach...
i told him there's no way that his son, in his right mind would do that (also there is not one dent...lol) and the seawater would not damage paint this easy...
but...and this is my question
how could he , if so, prevented this from happening?
thanks
michael c</HTML>
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 04, 2004 08:33PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 866 |
<HTML>Q - he thinks that it was from his son's laying on the roof while he was at the beach... how could he , if so, prevented this from happening?--
A - by sending his son to military school</HTML>
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Plays in the rain --- www.SuperiorShineDetailing.com
A - by sending his son to military school</HTML>
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Plays in the rain --- www.SuperiorShineDetailing.com
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 04, 2004 08:41PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 52 |
<HTML>Hehe... well, his son looks like vin diesel and i am sure he weighs as much...i guess he'd have left some sort of marks on that roof, if he really did lay on it... i think my pal was just miffed that the son took his sacret car to the beach, i could be wrong , though
michael c</HTML>
michael c</HTML>
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 04, 2004 08:45PM |
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 05, 2004 12:13PM |
<HTML>michael c,
One of my customers has an older Mazda 929 that I've been polishing and waxing twice a year since it was new. The paint still shines with no signs of clear coat failure. Your friends clear coat problem may have either been prevented by regular appearance maintenance or the vehicle may have possibly been improperly repainted at some time.</HTML>
One of my customers has an older Mazda 929 that I've been polishing and waxing twice a year since it was new. The paint still shines with no signs of clear coat failure. Your friends clear coat problem may have either been prevented by regular appearance maintenance or the vehicle may have possibly been improperly repainted at some time.</HTML>
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 05, 2004 01:33PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>First, it is very unlikely that his son's body fluids; sweat or sun screen would have caused the clear coat failure.
You use the key word: FAILURE.
For some reason the clear coat has failed. While the hot sun does raise hell with paint finishes I have not seen sun in itself cause the clear to fail. It is usually a repaint or something in the clear application in the first place that causes it to peel prematurely.
What year is the car? Has it been repainted? Is the peeling just on the hood? Do you have a paint thickness guage?
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
You use the key word: FAILURE.
For some reason the clear coat has failed. While the hot sun does raise hell with paint finishes I have not seen sun in itself cause the clear to fail. It is usually a repaint or something in the clear application in the first place that causes it to peel prematurely.
What year is the car? Has it been repainted? Is the peeling just on the hood? Do you have a paint thickness guage?
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 05, 2004 04:42PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 52 |
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 05, 2004 06:54PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Again, clear coat failure is either to due to repainting:
1. After assembly line at the factory or after the car is delivered to the dealer they often paint due to a problem. So the consumer receives a new car that is repainted, and they do not know it, or
2. The car is repainted due to an accident or rock chips.
3. In some cases an intrinsic problem with the clear itself when it was applied is made worse in severe climates like in the Florida sun and salt air.
That is the best I can offer you on this matter.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
1. After assembly line at the factory or after the car is delivered to the dealer they often paint due to a problem. So the consumer receives a new car that is repainted, and they do not know it, or
2. The car is repainted due to an accident or rock chips.
3. In some cases an intrinsic problem with the clear itself when it was applied is made worse in severe climates like in the Florida sun and salt air.
That is the best I can offer you on this matter.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 06, 2004 11:21AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 499 |
<HTML>In my experience, Early to mid 1990's mazdas of all model had clear coat problems. I used to get a lot of 626's and MX6's with exactly the problem you described. The clear had failed on all the top surfaces causing it to appear cloudy and white. It more than likely had more to do with a combination of environmental conditions, lack of care and poor quality clear - not the poor kid sun tanning on the roof. Furthermore, can you imagine how hot the paint would be on the roof of a car out in the sun? Not likely he could have laid on it due to temperature alone.</HTML>
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 10, 2004 03:57PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>929's were painted very specially.
The body's were placed on a "rotisorie" fixture, and the base and clears were atomized on the body as "it turned", providing a very even film build, the clear used was a more robust 2k clear of the best quality, unlike lower priced models.
Was also used on RX-7 models.
This very even application, consistant film build of over 2 mil, and the very even bake process is what contributed to the abiltiy of these models clear to be in great shape, even 10 years later.
That is along as some idiot didn't take a wool yarn pad and some HD compound and remove .3 mil of the clear!
No matter how much or thick the clear film build is, only .3 mil of it is dense with the majority of the UV blockers concentrated there.
Remove more than .3 mil and depending on the UV rate of the area in which the vehicle is located, it may start to exhibit failure within 6 months or less.
The special process was discontinued around 98 and may be used again if Mazda comes to market with a new high line model.(really adds a lot of manufacturering costs to the vehicle)
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
The body's were placed on a "rotisorie" fixture, and the base and clears were atomized on the body as "it turned", providing a very even film build, the clear used was a more robust 2k clear of the best quality, unlike lower priced models.
Was also used on RX-7 models.
This very even application, consistant film build of over 2 mil, and the very even bake process is what contributed to the abiltiy of these models clear to be in great shape, even 10 years later.
That is along as some idiot didn't take a wool yarn pad and some HD compound and remove .3 mil of the clear!
No matter how much or thick the clear film build is, only .3 mil of it is dense with the majority of the UV blockers concentrated there.
Remove more than .3 mil and depending on the UV rate of the area in which the vehicle is located, it may start to exhibit failure within 6 months or less.
The special process was discontinued around 98 and may be used again if Mazda comes to market with a new high line model.(really adds a lot of manufacturering costs to the vehicle)
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 10, 2004 04:07PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>In Feb and March of 1994, the vehicles you worked on were produced at the Flat Rock plant and these 626's and MX-6's had an even worse concern.
I was called in to address a "spotting" on these models, but it was not seen on the Ford Probes, built right along side of them, same paint process, same paint.
When I did the due diligence exploration, traced the concern to the "transit coating" and "remover" being applied to the Mazda's, but not applied to the Probe's.
Ford used transit film, vs the Japanese spray on transit coating, both of which had a high butyl cellosolve content.
There were other concerns as well, since Ford at that time did not have total control, the Japanese at the plant insisted on using a Japanense formula of the PPG materials, vs the American PPG chemistry applied to the Probes.
The Japanese chemistry clear was inferior, but the Japanese can sometimes be as "national" as the Germans, so it was, "we know what is best, you American's are wrong", sort of thinking.
In that two month period, aprox 11,000 Flat Rock build Mazda's got out with serious problems before they listened to my findings and stopped applying the Japanese transit coating and using the remover.
It was almost two years more, before they stopped applying their version of the PPG clear.
The vehicles of these dates that most see, had to be put through a servere "cutting/polishing" process, which was not always done to specs and so excessive clear was removed, and you have seen first hand the result of taking of more than .3 mil of OEM clear.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
I was called in to address a "spotting" on these models, but it was not seen on the Ford Probes, built right along side of them, same paint process, same paint.
When I did the due diligence exploration, traced the concern to the "transit coating" and "remover" being applied to the Mazda's, but not applied to the Probe's.
Ford used transit film, vs the Japanese spray on transit coating, both of which had a high butyl cellosolve content.
There were other concerns as well, since Ford at that time did not have total control, the Japanese at the plant insisted on using a Japanense formula of the PPG materials, vs the American PPG chemistry applied to the Probes.
The Japanese chemistry clear was inferior, but the Japanese can sometimes be as "national" as the Germans, so it was, "we know what is best, you American's are wrong", sort of thinking.
In that two month period, aprox 11,000 Flat Rock build Mazda's got out with serious problems before they listened to my findings and stopped applying the Japanese transit coating and using the remover.
It was almost two years more, before they stopped applying their version of the PPG clear.
The vehicles of these dates that most see, had to be put through a servere "cutting/polishing" process, which was not always done to specs and so excessive clear was removed, and you have seen first hand the result of taking of more than .3 mil of OEM clear.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 10, 2004 04:30PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 52 |
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Re: CLEAR COAT FAILURES July 10, 2004 05:26PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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