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Who Knows About Interior Fogging?
Posted by Steve Bough
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Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 17, 2004 02:30AM |
<HTML>Took my shop chief to a seminar about carpet cleaning today. It was geared toward pro "floor covering technicians", commercial and residential, but we did learn a lot about stain removal.
One of the things touched on but not really discussed was odor removal by fogging vs ozone machines. General consensus was that ozone machines are bad and not really necessary except in the most extreme conditions. Also dangerous for vehicle rubber, vinyl, and leather (I may try ours on a junker to see how long it takes to ruin an interior).
What wasn't discussed is how fogging works and how it could be done to a vehicle.
Anybody know?</HTML>
One of the things touched on but not really discussed was odor removal by fogging vs ozone machines. General consensus was that ozone machines are bad and not really necessary except in the most extreme conditions. Also dangerous for vehicle rubber, vinyl, and leather (I may try ours on a junker to see how long it takes to ruin an interior).
What wasn't discussed is how fogging works and how it could be done to a vehicle.
Anybody know?</HTML>
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 17, 2004 02:55AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>Why not just try the one product that has no odor and does not require special equipment, is non-hazadous, non-toxic and is used by the OEM in their plants?
All you have to do is understand the way it works, and follow directions.
It is called "Odor Terminator", all you do is make sure it is atomized and "makes contact" with the surfaces.
It works on all organic odors, including cigarette smoke.
If you find that there is still a problem, either the directions were not followed or was used on a "non-organic" source.
The product has tox numbers from GM, Ford and DCX, since we sell it to them for plant use, but under another "name".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
All you have to do is understand the way it works, and follow directions.
It is called "Odor Terminator", all you do is make sure it is atomized and "makes contact" with the surfaces.
It works on all organic odors, including cigarette smoke.
If you find that there is still a problem, either the directions were not followed or was used on a "non-organic" source.
The product has tox numbers from GM, Ford and DCX, since we sell it to them for plant use, but under another "name".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 17, 2004 06:55PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 34 |
<HTML>Hi Grumpy, maybe I have missed something in the past but can I buy your "odor terminator " here in the UK please send me details also Iam looking for Cyclone pads my supplier has stopped selling them now. Cheers.</HTML>
edinburgh car clinic
www.smartrepairs.me.uk
78, Leyland Princess 2.2 HLS owner.
edinburgh car clinic
www.smartrepairs.me.uk
78, Leyland Princess 2.2 HLS owner.
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 17, 2004 07:56PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>A very large part of our autodetailing business is odor removal.
Almost any odor can be succesfully removed if one develops a consistent cleaning protocol that employs the use of appropriate cleaning products, finding the source, removal, remediation and willingness to do the work.
Unfortunately, no one product works all the time...so it is necessary to have in stock several similar types of products for milk, mildew, urine, vomit, smoke, decaying matter, etc. Diagnostic tools to find the source, equipment, such as ozone machines, restorator, foggers, to help remediate. Logic and a good nose to resolve the problem. When one product or equipment does not does work switch to another.
I very rarely use an ozone machine and if so for a limited period and only for residual odors.
Thermal foggers are usually not ideal for automobiles, since products are solvent based and when deposited on interior fittings can etch, stain, leave a greasy film over glass and possibly damage electronic parts. In addition many of the products used in thermal foggers are scented and can be more problematic</HTML>
Almost any odor can be succesfully removed if one develops a consistent cleaning protocol that employs the use of appropriate cleaning products, finding the source, removal, remediation and willingness to do the work.
Unfortunately, no one product works all the time...so it is necessary to have in stock several similar types of products for milk, mildew, urine, vomit, smoke, decaying matter, etc. Diagnostic tools to find the source, equipment, such as ozone machines, restorator, foggers, to help remediate. Logic and a good nose to resolve the problem. When one product or equipment does not does work switch to another.
I very rarely use an ozone machine and if so for a limited period and only for residual odors.
Thermal foggers are usually not ideal for automobiles, since products are solvent based and when deposited on interior fittings can etch, stain, leave a greasy film over glass and possibly damage electronic parts. In addition many of the products used in thermal foggers are scented and can be more problematic</HTML>
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 17, 2004 08:11PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>Milk, mildew, vomit, cigarette smoke, decaying matter, urine are organic odors.
The OT handles all of them, we provide it in drums, several a month, have for years, to Ford, GM and DCX. It has "tox" approval from all.
They use it for organic odors in plants, etc.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
The OT handles all of them, we provide it in drums, several a month, have for years, to Ford, GM and DCX. It has "tox" approval from all.
They use it for organic odors in plants, etc.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 17, 2004 08:19PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 17, 2004 08:25PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>Gaz, while it is not hazadous or toxic or carcenigenic, or flammable or combustible, the regular shipping charges would be pretty high.
At present we are negoiating with a firm to act as our distributor in the UK, however I can not tell you at this time as to when they will have product.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
At present we are negoiating with a firm to act as our distributor in the UK, however I can not tell you at this time as to when they will have product.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 17, 2004 08:33PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>There are some, like burn smoke that it will not work on.
We suggest, when really bad odors, to mix about 2 oz into the all purpose as you clean.
Then to add 4 ounces to your rinse water of the extractor, does two things, one gets the product down into the seats or carpet, second your extractor does end up smelling like a hog wallow.
After doing the cleaning, make sure and start at the headliner , applying a fine mist to it and work your way down.
If you know where the "odor" source is, really dose it with the OT.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
We suggest, when really bad odors, to mix about 2 oz into the all purpose as you clean.
Then to add 4 ounces to your rinse water of the extractor, does two things, one gets the product down into the seats or carpet, second your extractor does end up smelling like a hog wallow.
After doing the cleaning, make sure and start at the headliner , applying a fine mist to it and work your way down.
If you know where the "odor" source is, really dose it with the OT.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 18, 2004 03:22AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 866 |
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 18, 2004 08:11AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>I do not agree with your people who said that ozone is not good and that it is dangerous. That is information from people who do not know.
Ozone generators are used in the hotel and motel industry all the time to deodorize rooms. As well in several other industries.
We have both used them and sold them (Ozone Generators) for years with absolutely no problems or claims or lawsuits.
There are also biological odor eliminators that work too.
Odor is caused by bacteria. The ozone will destroy the bacteria eliminating the odor.
The biological odor eliminator does the same thing However, the chemical has to come in direct contact with the bacteria in order to destroy it. Sometimes that is not possible.
That is why they use foggers in the residential and commerical cleaning business. In hotels for example, they might put a fogger in a room and leave it run for a few hours to get the chemical touching everything.
I hesitate to put a fogger in a car because of all the electronics. Creating that much moisture on the interior of the car could cause severe damage to some of the electronics. To me the risk is not worth it I would rather spray it on and rub it in if I were to use a chemical.
Personally, that is why I like the ozone generator. One purchase and that is it. With the fogger, they are about 1/2 the price of a good ozone generator, but then you have to continually buy the chemical.
In the long run the ozone is cheaper.
We sell both products, for those who are interested.
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Ozone generators are used in the hotel and motel industry all the time to deodorize rooms. As well in several other industries.
We have both used them and sold them (Ozone Generators) for years with absolutely no problems or claims or lawsuits.
There are also biological odor eliminators that work too.
Odor is caused by bacteria. The ozone will destroy the bacteria eliminating the odor.
The biological odor eliminator does the same thing However, the chemical has to come in direct contact with the bacteria in order to destroy it. Sometimes that is not possible.
That is why they use foggers in the residential and commerical cleaning business. In hotels for example, they might put a fogger in a room and leave it run for a few hours to get the chemical touching everything.
I hesitate to put a fogger in a car because of all the electronics. Creating that much moisture on the interior of the car could cause severe damage to some of the electronics. To me the risk is not worth it I would rather spray it on and rub it in if I were to use a chemical.
Personally, that is why I like the ozone generator. One purchase and that is it. With the fogger, they are about 1/2 the price of a good ozone generator, but then you have to continually buy the chemical.
In the long run the ozone is cheaper.
We sell both products, for those who are interested.
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 18, 2004 12:38PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 237 |
<HTML>Gaz,
AutoSmart do Cyclone pads.
www.odour-go.com will set you up with a fogging kit at a reasonable price.
www.chemspec-europe.com sell everything you could ever need for odour removal and give fantastic advice.
<a href="[www.clean-image.co.uk]; target="_blank">[www.clean-image.co.uk];
The above article (badly written in a hurry after 3 too many brandys) will give you an idea of what we are up to.
Whatever you are doing, it usually depends on removing the source of the smell which is the hard part. Foggers and ozone machines are okay, but if you don't remove the source, the smell will come back. Doing this part of the job right will probably mean using special chemicals which remove organic or chemical substances, or bioactive enzymes... and may often mean taking much of the car apart to get to the offending material.
We have had everything you can imagine to deal with. We have had dead dog, 2 week old rotten fish, afterbirth, kerosine, fire damage and raw sewage from floods. It's all do-able and we boast a 99% success rate.
The smell of pets, mildew and tabacco is pretty easy... usually.
There is quite a lot of science and theory to it, but the product suppliers are experienced and give free advice.</HTML>
AutoSmart do Cyclone pads.
www.odour-go.com will set you up with a fogging kit at a reasonable price.
www.chemspec-europe.com sell everything you could ever need for odour removal and give fantastic advice.
<a href="[www.clean-image.co.uk]; target="_blank">[www.clean-image.co.uk];
The above article (badly written in a hurry after 3 too many brandys) will give you an idea of what we are up to.
Whatever you are doing, it usually depends on removing the source of the smell which is the hard part. Foggers and ozone machines are okay, but if you don't remove the source, the smell will come back. Doing this part of the job right will probably mean using special chemicals which remove organic or chemical substances, or bioactive enzymes... and may often mean taking much of the car apart to get to the offending material.
We have had everything you can imagine to deal with. We have had dead dog, 2 week old rotten fish, afterbirth, kerosine, fire damage and raw sewage from floods. It's all do-able and we boast a 99% success rate.
The smell of pets, mildew and tabacco is pretty easy... usually.
There is quite a lot of science and theory to it, but the product suppliers are experienced and give free advice.</HTML>
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 18, 2004 02:58PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>Dan is right on track 99% of odors can be removed by removing the source. Depending on an Ozone machine and Fogger plays only a minimal part in the process and should not be heavily relied on.
It is easy to praise the ozone machine as a cure all for everything...but if cleaning and removing odors in vehicles is not what you do on a daily basis... all the theories don't hold much weight. Like Dan we tear apart vehicles all day for some of the nasties odors, we are also IICRC certified, do building maintenance and finding and removing the source is a better way to clean. In fact, much of my work comes from re-doing vehicles that have been ozoned to death.
Like everything else we should be judicious with the use of ozone machines especially in classic vehicles...I take my cue from museum curators who have written numerous papers on the effect of ozone of leather, paper, etc...</HTML>
It is easy to praise the ozone machine as a cure all for everything...but if cleaning and removing odors in vehicles is not what you do on a daily basis... all the theories don't hold much weight. Like Dan we tear apart vehicles all day for some of the nasties odors, we are also IICRC certified, do building maintenance and finding and removing the source is a better way to clean. In fact, much of my work comes from re-doing vehicles that have been ozoned to death.
Like everything else we should be judicious with the use of ozone machines especially in classic vehicles...I take my cue from museum curators who have written numerous papers on the effect of ozone of leather, paper, etc...</HTML>
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 18, 2004 03:36PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Concours:
You are absolutely correct in your comment about "removing the source" of the odor as the first step in eliminating odor.
However, as we all know, once the source is gone bacteria can remain, and this is what creates the odor problem even after the source is gone.
For example, feces; a fish left too long in the truck; a person dying in the car and decomposing before the corpse is removed, etc.
As for ozone, your comments are taken out of context. Of course museum curators are going to be down on ozone they are dealing with parchments that are thousands of years old and anything at all that would have a negative effect on them is frowned upon. These people even control the normal air that touches these valuable and ancient documents.
What detailers need to do is read the information both pro and con with regard to ozone and they will find that ozone generators; biological eliminators; masking agents and others are all products that are used by odor removal specialists. They all have their application and are all need.
What we need to do in this industry is not get involved in which is best, pro and con arguments, but first to see the benefits to our business, personally. That is all that counts, "what works for me."
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
You are absolutely correct in your comment about "removing the source" of the odor as the first step in eliminating odor.
However, as we all know, once the source is gone bacteria can remain, and this is what creates the odor problem even after the source is gone.
For example, feces; a fish left too long in the truck; a person dying in the car and decomposing before the corpse is removed, etc.
As for ozone, your comments are taken out of context. Of course museum curators are going to be down on ozone they are dealing with parchments that are thousands of years old and anything at all that would have a negative effect on them is frowned upon. These people even control the normal air that touches these valuable and ancient documents.
What detailers need to do is read the information both pro and con with regard to ozone and they will find that ozone generators; biological eliminators; masking agents and others are all products that are used by odor removal specialists. They all have their application and are all need.
What we need to do in this industry is not get involved in which is best, pro and con arguments, but first to see the benefits to our business, personally. That is all that counts, "what works for me."
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 18, 2004 09:48PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 34 |
<HTML>Message to dan, cheers mate having problems with Autosmart pads as they quickly fall apart, they know (our agent} about this and they have been trying to fix it out. its like the glues not upto much.</HTML>
edinburgh car clinic
www.smartrepairs.me.uk
78, Leyland Princess 2.2 HLS owner.
edinburgh car clinic
www.smartrepairs.me.uk
78, Leyland Princess 2.2 HLS owner.
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Re: Who Knows About Interior Fogging? November 19, 2004 12:42AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 237 |
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