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Simple Green Q
Posted by Tim M.
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Simple Green Q October 26, 2003 09:52PM |
<HTML>Okay, you recommend using Simple Green (diluted) for interiors. On the Simple Green bottle, they also recommend it for 'engines, tires, and wheels'. Would you agree to any of those recommendations? Or for using it on any other parts of a car?
Note: Please glance over other responses to this question before submitting your own so I don't have to read the same thing over in several messages, thanks.</HTML>
Note: Please glance over other responses to this question before submitting your own so I don't have to read the same thing over in several messages, thanks.</HTML>
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Re: Simple Green Q October 26, 2003 10:14PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 266 |
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Re: Simple Green Q October 27, 2003 02:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: Simple Green Q October 27, 2003 04:45AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
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Re: Simple Green Q October 27, 2003 05:50AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Would you wash your hair with Joy? Would you use it to wash the car? How about using it to take a bath?
If you are going to be a professional in the detailing business you need to use the chemicals that are formulated for the specific cleaning area. Carpets and fabric upholstery should be cleaned with Carpet & Upholstery Shampoo; Engines cleaned with engine degreaser; wheels with wheel cleaner; leather with leather cleaner; glass with glass cleaner; whitewalls and raised white letters with white wall cleaners.
That is what a professional would do. All these products are formulated just a little different from the other, and that is for a reason.
Sure you can use JOY for everything but you don't. Sure you could use engine degrease for everything, but it is not the professional thing to do.
This is from a company that makes chemicals so I am not just giving you an opinion. I am telling you fact, that these chemicals are different from one another.
But you can do what you want certainly.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
If you are going to be a professional in the detailing business you need to use the chemicals that are formulated for the specific cleaning area. Carpets and fabric upholstery should be cleaned with Carpet & Upholstery Shampoo; Engines cleaned with engine degreaser; wheels with wheel cleaner; leather with leather cleaner; glass with glass cleaner; whitewalls and raised white letters with white wall cleaners.
That is what a professional would do. All these products are formulated just a little different from the other, and that is for a reason.
Sure you can use JOY for everything but you don't. Sure you could use engine degrease for everything, but it is not the professional thing to do.
This is from a company that makes chemicals so I am not just giving you an opinion. I am telling you fact, that these chemicals are different from one another.
But you can do what you want certainly.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Simple Green Q October 27, 2003 06:05AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Bud:
One thing I learned when it comes to cleaning chemicals is to diversify certain products. Auto Magic recommends using different dilutions for it's Special Concentrate Cleaner. Same thing with Stoner's All Purpose Cleaner. Engines get 1:1, general wheel cleaning gets 2:1, vinyl & leather is 5:1 and carpets and upholstery get 3:1. They also recommend full strength as a pre-spot on carpets. Stoner says it's APC has over 100 uses.
But the glass cleaner and extraction shampoo is for these specific uses.
These are just my thoughts on diversifying certain products. Just hope detailers who do this have ratio scales on their bottles instead of guessing.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
One thing I learned when it comes to cleaning chemicals is to diversify certain products. Auto Magic recommends using different dilutions for it's Special Concentrate Cleaner. Same thing with Stoner's All Purpose Cleaner. Engines get 1:1, general wheel cleaning gets 2:1, vinyl & leather is 5:1 and carpets and upholstery get 3:1. They also recommend full strength as a pre-spot on carpets. Stoner says it's APC has over 100 uses.
But the glass cleaner and extraction shampoo is for these specific uses.
These are just my thoughts on diversifying certain products. Just hope detailers who do this have ratio scales on their bottles instead of guessing.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Simple Green Q October 27, 2003 06:17AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Brian:
You miss the point. I do not care what the chemical company tells you the reality is that chemicals are formulated for specific purposes.
The dilution does not change the make up of the chemical. For example, if an engine degrease has sodium hydroxide in it which is a very hot caustic need to clean hydorcarbons off engines, and which helps to create a pH of 12 or 13 you do not eliminate or dilute the pH of the product. It still have sodium hydroxide in it and is still a pH of 12 or 13 which which damage carpets.
Will it clean carpets, of course it will, just like Joy would wash your hair but degrease your scalp at the same time.
Give you an example. You pour a shot of whiskey into a shot glass. What do you have? About 1 ounce of whiskey. You pour the whiskey into an 8 ounce glass and add 7 ounces of water. How much whiskey do you have?
Right, an ounce. Nothing changes the intake of 1 ounce of whiskey will have the same affect on you whether you drink it straight or with water.
Water has nothing to do with the basic make up of the chemical nor the pH. All the dilution does is weaken the surfactant in the chemical.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
You miss the point. I do not care what the chemical company tells you the reality is that chemicals are formulated for specific purposes.
The dilution does not change the make up of the chemical. For example, if an engine degrease has sodium hydroxide in it which is a very hot caustic need to clean hydorcarbons off engines, and which helps to create a pH of 12 or 13 you do not eliminate or dilute the pH of the product. It still have sodium hydroxide in it and is still a pH of 12 or 13 which which damage carpets.
Will it clean carpets, of course it will, just like Joy would wash your hair but degrease your scalp at the same time.
Give you an example. You pour a shot of whiskey into a shot glass. What do you have? About 1 ounce of whiskey. You pour the whiskey into an 8 ounce glass and add 7 ounces of water. How much whiskey do you have?
Right, an ounce. Nothing changes the intake of 1 ounce of whiskey will have the same affect on you whether you drink it straight or with water.
Water has nothing to do with the basic make up of the chemical nor the pH. All the dilution does is weaken the surfactant in the chemical.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Simple Green Q October 27, 2003 04:14PM |
<HTML>Bud Abraham - Lol. Yes, I use specific cleaners, etc. for their specific purposes. The only thing that Simple Green has been 'recommended' to me for is pre-dressing cleaning for interiors (recommended on - the website we're at, in their detailing page under 'interiors'so I would assume Someone knows what they're talking about), I haven't even tried it out yet, but having read the bottle I noticed that it was also recommended for other uses. But before I would just try it out, I wanted opinions from some pros. You made some very good points about the cons of its extended use, and I'm sure I'll stick to interior base cleaning. If you have any other cleaner recommendations for interiors (for those people who don't like to have dressings used) let me know. Although I also recommend , if you haven't already, to check out Simple Green to see what's in it.</HTML>
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Re: Simple Green Q October 27, 2003 06:34PM |
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Re: Simple Green Q October 27, 2003 10:57PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 73 |
<HTML>I would agree with bud....use the right product for the job...I know there are detailers that do try to clean everything with one product...In my early days the shop i worked in used one product for everything...they probably still do...If you have to sub...sometimes you may...planning ahead will keep you from sub-ing...I would not recomend using your most agressive cleaner for other things....You could probably get away with using your least agresive product but it will usually take more product, dwell time, and scrubbing...so any benifit with sub-ing is cancled out by excessive time (time is money) and the increased risk of damage.. I will promise you...you will mess up some leather.... that and the fact that detailers usually dont know whats in a product or its charecteristics...
As for cleaning and not dressing...I use the same cleaner weather I dress or not...I use a cleaner safe on leather and vinal. I apply the cleaner and agitate with a horse hair (i think) brush. about a 3 inch square bristle surface. its softer than a tooth brush..most times i use a regular towel to wipe dry..for black interiors I use an old shamme..rinse it often..you will be amazed how much dirt you pull up. Either way when done i will use either a clean damp shamme or a micro fiber towel to pick up any lint. There are some good leater dressings availiable that arent greasy..some work ok on vinal too. but it still leaves a bit of a shine on vinal.</HTML>
As for cleaning and not dressing...I use the same cleaner weather I dress or not...I use a cleaner safe on leather and vinal. I apply the cleaner and agitate with a horse hair (i think) brush. about a 3 inch square bristle surface. its softer than a tooth brush..most times i use a regular towel to wipe dry..for black interiors I use an old shamme..rinse it often..you will be amazed how much dirt you pull up. Either way when done i will use either a clean damp shamme or a micro fiber towel to pick up any lint. There are some good leater dressings availiable that arent greasy..some work ok on vinal too. but it still leaves a bit of a shine on vinal.</HTML>
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Re: Simple Green Q October 28, 2003 01:33AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>I'm not disagreeing, just adding my opinion on using one product for different uses.
I use Special Conc. Cleaner for engines, wheels, tires, wheel wells, door jambs, bumper grills and fascias, pre-spotting some stains, some general interior cleaning. (Different dilutions for different uses)
Vinyl & Leather Cleaner for vinyl, leather, upholstery
Carpet Shampoo for general shampooing
Invisible Glass or AM Foaming Glass Cleaner for glass, windows, mirrors and chrome.
I am not one to buy engine degreaser and wheel cleaners when after experiencing same results with the APCs.
In regards to the Ph balance, how come when one ingests a certain cleaner, the MSDS recommends to drink large quantities of water?</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
I use Special Conc. Cleaner for engines, wheels, tires, wheel wells, door jambs, bumper grills and fascias, pre-spotting some stains, some general interior cleaning. (Different dilutions for different uses)
Vinyl & Leather Cleaner for vinyl, leather, upholstery
Carpet Shampoo for general shampooing
Invisible Glass or AM Foaming Glass Cleaner for glass, windows, mirrors and chrome.
I am not one to buy engine degreaser and wheel cleaners when after experiencing same results with the APCs.
In regards to the Ph balance, how come when one ingests a certain cleaner, the MSDS recommends to drink large quantities of water?</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Simple Green Q October 28, 2003 02:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>Okay Bud has the right idea here guys, you'd be wise to listen. High pH products have the ability to 'cut' grease. Simple Green has a pH of 9.5 as I recall. Pure sodium hydroxide has a pH of 14. Neutral pH is 7. For every unit of pH you move (up or down) you change hydroxide concentration by a factor of 10! Thus diluting SG by a ratio of 100:1 only decrease pH by 2 units (10x10) to 7.5. Okay that's safe right? Except the detergents and surfactants are now diluted to 1/100th the original concentration as Bud said.
Okay why neutral pH? High pH washes removes dirt/grime but removes oils and plasticizers from vinyl THAT SHOULD NOT BE REMOVED! You are speeding up the drying, cracking, and oxidizing process by cleaning vinyl with any high pH cleaner. Why don't you use DAWN on the paint? Same reason! I recognize the economy of using the same gallon for all your cleaning but you do so at the expense of the customer's car!
A thought on dressing free interior finishing. Some people don't like that greasy glossy look of many interior dressings. I am one. I prefer a product that is a low shine but adds UV protection. Why UV protection? Notice how vinyl takes on that chalky white look after a few years? UV light is a type of ionizing radiation that has enough energy to sever chemical bonds creating free radicals. That is why you should wear UV blocking eye protection and wear sunscreen. These free radicals are highly reactive. In particular they can speed up the oxidation process by breaking plain old O2 (that we need to live) into radicals. They continue this process until absorbed by antioxidants! Hope this was simple enough to follow, if not ask me to clarify! This is what causes vinyl to become white and chalky. Plasticizers and vital oils mentioned above not only keep vinyl soft and flexible, it has antioxidant properties. That is why we should consider UV protection in our vehicles' interiors. Back to interior dressings. I found a dressing that is not glossy and thus looks like the matte finish of a new car and has UV protection that I prefer to use. For inbetween look: Use apply 303 and buff it off immediately to reduce it's shine to a satin finish. AVOID SILICONE BASED as petroleum distillates are required to keep them in solution. Solvents destroy plastic, rubber, and vinyl. Read the label and pick water based!</HTML>
Okay why neutral pH? High pH washes removes dirt/grime but removes oils and plasticizers from vinyl THAT SHOULD NOT BE REMOVED! You are speeding up the drying, cracking, and oxidizing process by cleaning vinyl with any high pH cleaner. Why don't you use DAWN on the paint? Same reason! I recognize the economy of using the same gallon for all your cleaning but you do so at the expense of the customer's car!
A thought on dressing free interior finishing. Some people don't like that greasy glossy look of many interior dressings. I am one. I prefer a product that is a low shine but adds UV protection. Why UV protection? Notice how vinyl takes on that chalky white look after a few years? UV light is a type of ionizing radiation that has enough energy to sever chemical bonds creating free radicals. That is why you should wear UV blocking eye protection and wear sunscreen. These free radicals are highly reactive. In particular they can speed up the oxidation process by breaking plain old O2 (that we need to live) into radicals. They continue this process until absorbed by antioxidants! Hope this was simple enough to follow, if not ask me to clarify! This is what causes vinyl to become white and chalky. Plasticizers and vital oils mentioned above not only keep vinyl soft and flexible, it has antioxidant properties. That is why we should consider UV protection in our vehicles' interiors. Back to interior dressings. I found a dressing that is not glossy and thus looks like the matte finish of a new car and has UV protection that I prefer to use. For inbetween look: Use apply 303 and buff it off immediately to reduce it's shine to a satin finish. AVOID SILICONE BASED as petroleum distillates are required to keep them in solution. Solvents destroy plastic, rubber, and vinyl. Read the label and pick water based!</HTML>
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Re: Simple Green Q October 28, 2003 02:34AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
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Re: Simple Green Q October 28, 2003 02:44AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
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Re: Simple Green Q October 28, 2003 02:59AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Great postings guys. A lot has been learned with all I'm sure. I'm just going by what the Auto Magic and Stoner companies say and the uses they place on their labels. With these recommendations I have never had any damage from use but great results. I don't use one product for everything, never stated that. But one product for multiple uses. Hope this clears things up!</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Simple Green Q October 28, 2003 03:16AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>UV protection is a strong selling point so if the company made an effort to include it, I'd imagine you would find it on the bottle!
As always, you're welcome folks. Glad to be of any help.
I hope you don't feel I accused you Brian, I just made a blanket statement to anyone reading these posts.</HTML>
As always, you're welcome folks. Glad to be of any help.
I hope you don't feel I accused you Brian, I just made a blanket statement to anyone reading these posts.</HTML>
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Re: Simple Green Q October 28, 2003 03:28AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
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Re: Simple Green Q October 28, 2003 03:57AM |
<HTML>Robert, good call on the UV protection, I've been wanting to ask about a good, proven, UV protector. Is there one in particular you recommend? And is there any wax you recommend for the exterior (body) that also is a reliable protector?
Thanks for all the help you guys,
Be blessed</HTML>
Thanks for all the help you guys,
Be blessed</HTML>
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Re: Simple Green Q October 28, 2003 04:54AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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