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Clearcoat?
Posted by Anne Springer
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Clearcoat? March 23, 2006 01:36PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>I have an important question. I was buffing my new fender yesterday because it had some scratches in it, and I got a lot of red on my pad from the car! To me, that would signal there is no clearcoat on the car. Before I yell at the bodyshop for this major error, is there something else it could be? Could it have just that much oxidation? Overspray? BTW this is the first time I've buffed it, but I've used cleaner and other products on it and I never noticed paint coming off.
Anne</HTML>
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Clearcoat? March 23, 2006 04:27PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
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Re: Clearcoat? March 23, 2006 07:41PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>It was done exactly a year ago by a lovely chain-store shop called LaMettry's. They are certified by various expensive car makers, although now that I look at that stuff and the positive feedback from their customers, I see that all the papers are old!
I decided instead of waiting for an answer to go into the body shop and ask them about the clearcoat. They assured me they had put a clearcoat on it, and quickly accused me of burning through it. I was buffing less than 1 minute and I had done this previously on my car without paint coming off. I used a sealer/glaze with a polishing pad on the fender and got a lot of paint. He decided to take the car back to the bay and have somebody buff it after I told them they needed to remove all the chemical that I had put on, and they ended up with the same result I got. They looked at each other and then told me they didn't have a clue what they did to my car last year! All I can say after they repair my paint, they will not get anymore of my business or my recommendation!
Here's my next question. Can they and should they just spray clearcoat over the paint, or should they sand down the paint and then spray clearcoat or plain strip the paint and start again? The paint is scratched up a bit because it was so brittle without the clearcoat... I would really appreciate some advice as to what should be done to correct the panels!
Anne</HTML>
I decided instead of waiting for an answer to go into the body shop and ask them about the clearcoat. They assured me they had put a clearcoat on it, and quickly accused me of burning through it. I was buffing less than 1 minute and I had done this previously on my car without paint coming off. I used a sealer/glaze with a polishing pad on the fender and got a lot of paint. He decided to take the car back to the bay and have somebody buff it after I told them they needed to remove all the chemical that I had put on, and they ended up with the same result I got. They looked at each other and then told me they didn't have a clue what they did to my car last year! All I can say after they repair my paint, they will not get anymore of my business or my recommendation!
Here's my next question. Can they and should they just spray clearcoat over the paint, or should they sand down the paint and then spray clearcoat or plain strip the paint and start again? The paint is scratched up a bit because it was so brittle without the clearcoat... I would really appreciate some advice as to what should be done to correct the panels!
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Clearcoat? March 23, 2006 07:52PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>It would be best to clean the surface, scuff and reapply the base coat and then the clear.
I suspect they got in a hurry last year and applied to clear with some added solvents to speed up the job, causing the red base coat to migrate into the clear.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
I suspect they got in a hurry last year and applied to clear with some added solvents to speed up the job, causing the red base coat to migrate into the clear.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: Clearcoat? March 23, 2006 08:40PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>I agree! They just called me and said they won't fix it because what I'm experiencing is a tinted clearcoat, and everytime I buff I will see color. The rest of the car has clearcoat, because when I buff I never get color. They went from telling me they don't have a clue that they did to oh, yeah, you just have a tinted clearcoat and this is what happens.
What is your opinion? Is that the typical behavior of a tinted clearcoat (if that's what it is), and do I have the right to tell them they need to follow the rest of the car in clearcoat?
Anne</HTML>
What is your opinion? Is that the typical behavior of a tinted clearcoat (if that's what it is), and do I have the right to tell them they need to follow the rest of the car in clearcoat?
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Clearcoat? March 23, 2006 08:50PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>You will get a small amount of the base color with tinted clears.
Be it the Laser Red that Ford used, or some of the newer Lexus, blacks with a mica gold.
It is not as obivious as a non-clear, but you will observe some color on the pad.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
Be it the Laser Red that Ford used, or some of the newer Lexus, blacks with a mica gold.
It is not as obivious as a non-clear, but you will observe some color on the pad.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: Clearcoat? March 23, 2006 08:58PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>How much is a little color? I did an area of about 3-6 inches in diameter, and the pad is full of red. I thought it was just non-clears that you got color from, and not any clearcoats.
How can I be sure it is clearcoated? What precautions should I use for this type of clearcoat?
Anne</HTML>
How can I be sure it is clearcoated? What precautions should I use for this type of clearcoat?
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Clearcoat? March 23, 2006 09:14PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
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Re: Clearcoat? March 23, 2006 09:25PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>Its a 1995 Toyota Celica GT.
I don't know if the car was supposed to come with tinted clearcoat; to me it seems like the bodyshop likes to use that method for painting, regardless of the situation. I feel like I'm being lied to, and they're going to cheat me out a properly done job because its an 11 year old car with a slightly darker front clip. The car certainly doesn't look that old, or bad for that matter!
I think the paint seems a bit more thin and brittle than what's on the rest of the car. Last year the new door got egged, and it was just a little more than four tiny marks after I cleaned it up, but you can see metal. That's why I'm very suspicious of the "tinted clearcoat" because to me from buffing to the tiny egg mark, it doesn't seem like there is one. Is there any foolproof way of finding out once and for all what they really did?
I really appreciate your time helping me out on this, and I hope with your help I can decide what action needs to be taken.
Anne</HTML>
I don't know if the car was supposed to come with tinted clearcoat; to me it seems like the bodyshop likes to use that method for painting, regardless of the situation. I feel like I'm being lied to, and they're going to cheat me out a properly done job because its an 11 year old car with a slightly darker front clip. The car certainly doesn't look that old, or bad for that matter!
I think the paint seems a bit more thin and brittle than what's on the rest of the car. Last year the new door got egged, and it was just a little more than four tiny marks after I cleaned it up, but you can see metal. That's why I'm very suspicious of the "tinted clearcoat" because to me from buffing to the tiny egg mark, it doesn't seem like there is one. Is there any foolproof way of finding out once and for all what they really did?
I really appreciate your time helping me out on this, and I hope with your help I can decide what action needs to be taken.
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Clearcoat? March 24, 2006 01:51PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
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Re: Clearcoat? March 24, 2006 06:23PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
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Re: Clearcoat? March 24, 2006 11:05PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 73 |
<HTML>i have a 97 toyota rav and have the same issue,and i have noticed this to be a ploblem with other toyotas as well.i have owned the car for 5 years and have maintained the paint monthly since i have owned it,the paint appeares chalky and dull and appears to be cracking.i can only assume this damage began before i purchased the car,but none the less is fustrating when i do this type of work for a living and people pay me to maintain their cars finish.</HTML>
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Re: Clearcoat? March 26, 2006 01:42PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>I agree with you on that! My own car's paint has unfixable damage and mismatched paint. The car still looks fabulous, only at a small distance though. It is embarrassing that you clean other people's car but cannot to a darn thing about your own! That's why I'm thinking of buying a new business car and hiding my own around clients until its repainted. ;-)
I don't know why Toyotas would have problems with their paint; it should be just the same as any other car out there. My old fender had some thick paint and cracked instead of scratched. That's a definate sign of repainting!</HTML>
I don't know why Toyotas would have problems with their paint; it should be just the same as any other car out there. My old fender had some thick paint and cracked instead of scratched. That's a definate sign of repainting!</HTML>
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Re: Clearcoat? March 26, 2006 05:51PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 118 |
<HTML>I am a Toyota employee and I think I do recall some of the 95 GT'S being single stage paint (red & black & white), but after that like Ron said, most vehicles are clearcoats. I am surprised that you didn't take the car to a Toyota facility to have it painted. A lot of Toyota dealerships have bodyshops or bodyshops they use. They can most positively tell you what was used on your car originally by paint codes and other info. Single stage paint will bleed all over your pad, especially if it is oxidized. From what you have described in regards to your conversation with the outfit that painted your vehicle, it sounds like they never applied the clearcoat at all. It is hard to believe that you are getting so much color on your pad, with a tinted clearcoat. Most reputable paint shops are willing to make sure you are a happy customer, not say things like; "we don't remember", accusing you of burning through the paint when they don't have any proof to back up that statement.</HTML>
Detailing, An Art In Motion!
Detailing, An Art In Motion!
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Re: Clearcoat? March 26, 2006 08:24PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>Thanks a lot, Steve, for your input! I took it to LaMettry's because its right next to Minnesota's #1 Toyota dealership, and at least I thought the dealership took their business there. The shop had certificates from other makers like Audi, Mercedes, Toyota, Lexus, Jaguar... But I definately will next time get a recommendation from somebody at Toyota.
I thought this shop would stand behind their work and care enough about a customer to make sure its done right. After all the reading I've done, and talking on the forum, I've come to the conclusion they did a sloppy job and never sprayed clearcoat. I will show them this posting along with a few articles I dug up, then I'm demanding a refund and take the car elsewhere to have it painted. They're obviously not interested in doing my car right, and I love the car enough to make sure it stays in great shape, or at least no other damages to it. Doesn't matter if its 11 years old or 2 months old!
I was thinking about Thursday when I told them I buffed it with the polishing pad and it produced a lot of color, I don't know why they decided to SAND the car to prove my point. Sanding is not buffing, and in my experience you get color, even with a clearcoat when you do that. Besides their "detailers" didn't touch up their sand marks, so I have scratches on scratches.
Final point, the paint is so brittle that it takes next to nothing to see metal through a few tiny spots, and now a year later its taken on an orangish hue. My car might not have had good paint jobs in the past, but this one sure takes the cake! I wish I had listened to my intuition the night I decided to park on the other side of the driveway and allow a dumb teenager to back her SUV into my door- I wouldn't have had this headache to deal with!
I'll let you know what happens tomorrow when I discuss my issue with the manager (or owner).
Anne</HTML>
I thought this shop would stand behind their work and care enough about a customer to make sure its done right. After all the reading I've done, and talking on the forum, I've come to the conclusion they did a sloppy job and never sprayed clearcoat. I will show them this posting along with a few articles I dug up, then I'm demanding a refund and take the car elsewhere to have it painted. They're obviously not interested in doing my car right, and I love the car enough to make sure it stays in great shape, or at least no other damages to it. Doesn't matter if its 11 years old or 2 months old!
I was thinking about Thursday when I told them I buffed it with the polishing pad and it produced a lot of color, I don't know why they decided to SAND the car to prove my point. Sanding is not buffing, and in my experience you get color, even with a clearcoat when you do that. Besides their "detailers" didn't touch up their sand marks, so I have scratches on scratches.
Final point, the paint is so brittle that it takes next to nothing to see metal through a few tiny spots, and now a year later its taken on an orangish hue. My car might not have had good paint jobs in the past, but this one sure takes the cake! I wish I had listened to my intuition the night I decided to park on the other side of the driveway and allow a dumb teenager to back her SUV into my door- I wouldn't have had this headache to deal with!
I'll let you know what happens tomorrow when I discuss my issue with the manager (or owner).
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Clearcoat? March 27, 2006 05:43PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 118 |
<HTML>Ann:
We frequently do scratch repair here at our dealership on new cars (Scions & Toyota brands), and all of our cars have clearcoat on them. We find it much easier when we have deeper isolated scratches to wet sand them out, then remove all wet sanding marks with a compound, then polishing to bring the finish up. We do not get color on our pads at all from any of these steps on our cars. I would like to suggest that when you decide to get your car painted again that you have them strip all of the old paint off this time and start fresh. If the build up of paint on your car is too thick it will develop cracks in time, looks really bad and eventually comes off!
Another suggestion, if you are really interested in knowing more about automobile paint systems, Single stage, Basecoat Clearcoat, tri-coat, tinted coats, all that, get this book called the "Automotive Paint Handbook", by John Pfanstiehl. It's around $20.00 but packed full of information and pictures. Trust me on this, it is a very good book and will answer your questions very thoroughly. Arm your self with facts and you will get what you want.</HTML>
Detailing, An Art In Motion!
We frequently do scratch repair here at our dealership on new cars (Scions & Toyota brands), and all of our cars have clearcoat on them. We find it much easier when we have deeper isolated scratches to wet sand them out, then remove all wet sanding marks with a compound, then polishing to bring the finish up. We do not get color on our pads at all from any of these steps on our cars. I would like to suggest that when you decide to get your car painted again that you have them strip all of the old paint off this time and start fresh. If the build up of paint on your car is too thick it will develop cracks in time, looks really bad and eventually comes off!
Another suggestion, if you are really interested in knowing more about automobile paint systems, Single stage, Basecoat Clearcoat, tri-coat, tinted coats, all that, get this book called the "Automotive Paint Handbook", by John Pfanstiehl. It's around $20.00 but packed full of information and pictures. Trust me on this, it is a very good book and will answer your questions very thoroughly. Arm your self with facts and you will get what you want.</HTML>
Detailing, An Art In Motion!
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Re: Clearcoat? March 27, 2006 10:44PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>Thanks, I actually just borrowed the book from the library!
I had a discussion with the general manager at the bodyshop today, and he said because the paint on the car was very slightly faded and because red is not a natural color, they did a base coat with tinted clearcoats to match the red that was on the car. He said a little color will be normal, and reassured me that I can buff and not hurt anything. He also suggested I get an egg pad and wait for 3M's new product to buff the scratches out of the car.
What do you think of this?
Anne</HTML>
I had a discussion with the general manager at the bodyshop today, and he said because the paint on the car was very slightly faded and because red is not a natural color, they did a base coat with tinted clearcoats to match the red that was on the car. He said a little color will be normal, and reassured me that I can buff and not hurt anything. He also suggested I get an egg pad and wait for 3M's new product to buff the scratches out of the car.
What do you think of this?
Anne</HTML>
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