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How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax?
Posted by Bud Abraham
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How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 18, 2004 02:13PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>You all might be interested in this piece of information. I was contacted this week by a Brazilian company that manufactures wax polishes and, of course, carnuaba waxes.
They were trying to convince me to purchase their products, especially the carnuaba wax, since carnuaba comes from the unside of the leaves of Brazilian palm.
When I asked them what was the percentage of carnuaba wax in their paste wax they said--------------------2.8%.
Isn't that amazing? A carnuaba wax that has less than 3% wax? What are the other ingredients?
You ought to ask your suppliers to give you a breakdown of the wax percentage in the miracle waxes they are selling.
Regards
bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
They were trying to convince me to purchase their products, especially the carnuaba wax, since carnuaba comes from the unside of the leaves of Brazilian palm.
When I asked them what was the percentage of carnuaba wax in their paste wax they said--------------------2.8%.
Isn't that amazing? A carnuaba wax that has less than 3% wax? What are the other ingredients?
You ought to ask your suppliers to give you a breakdown of the wax percentage in the miracle waxes they are selling.
Regards
bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 19, 2004 03:06AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>We have a couple of our products which contain "carnuaba wax" as part of the formulation.
We even have a "sealant" that contains a percentage of "carnuaba" in a combination with a blend of polydimethalsiloxanes as well as one that has a blend of polyaminosiloxanes.
Why do we do this sort of formulation?
Simple, the Grade 1 carnuaba we use, provides the "great, quick shine" that the uninformed expect after application and wipe off.
Even a Grade 1 carnuaba only has a fracture point of around 160 to 165 F and in a short time is quickly fractured and evaporates from the vehicle's surface, but the high grade polymer blends will be there for anywhere from 6 months to even up to 3 years, depending on the care the surface is given during it's lifetime.
Will it "bead water" at that length of time, NO, but the active, anti-corossive polymer blends are still hanging on and be sacrifical to ward off the enviormental contaminates.
Not fool-proof, but works for high enough percentage of applications, that DaimlerChrysler's very extensive test protocals, using a minimum of 4 different clearcoat film builds, accelerated UV and Weathering tests, xeon gas exposure, etc, show the product to be superior to any other that they have put through their "test protocal".
In short, we don't do the test, we don't set or write the protocals of the testing, we just make and submit the products.
The same with Saturn, Nissan, etc, if the product does not meet the test protocals of the vehicle's manufactuer, their paint suppliers, we don't get the sale.
And with this type of true testing, and experience, on over 23,000,000, that's right, 23 million vehicles, over the past 25 years, that is pretty impressive.
The product, as with any, is not fool proof, and there are many other issues involved, like the vehicle manufacturer not applying sufficent film build of the clear or not requiring sufficent UV blockers in the clear, etc, which may create premature loss of gloss, clear failure, etc, and then the "care of the vehicle's finish by the owner", having an untrained or prejudiced detail use a wool pad and high speed buffer to remove the sealant coating, can make it all an excercise in fultility.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
We even have a "sealant" that contains a percentage of "carnuaba" in a combination with a blend of polydimethalsiloxanes as well as one that has a blend of polyaminosiloxanes.
Why do we do this sort of formulation?
Simple, the Grade 1 carnuaba we use, provides the "great, quick shine" that the uninformed expect after application and wipe off.
Even a Grade 1 carnuaba only has a fracture point of around 160 to 165 F and in a short time is quickly fractured and evaporates from the vehicle's surface, but the high grade polymer blends will be there for anywhere from 6 months to even up to 3 years, depending on the care the surface is given during it's lifetime.
Will it "bead water" at that length of time, NO, but the active, anti-corossive polymer blends are still hanging on and be sacrifical to ward off the enviormental contaminates.
Not fool-proof, but works for high enough percentage of applications, that DaimlerChrysler's very extensive test protocals, using a minimum of 4 different clearcoat film builds, accelerated UV and Weathering tests, xeon gas exposure, etc, show the product to be superior to any other that they have put through their "test protocal".
In short, we don't do the test, we don't set or write the protocals of the testing, we just make and submit the products.
The same with Saturn, Nissan, etc, if the product does not meet the test protocals of the vehicle's manufactuer, their paint suppliers, we don't get the sale.
And with this type of true testing, and experience, on over 23,000,000, that's right, 23 million vehicles, over the past 25 years, that is pretty impressive.
The product, as with any, is not fool proof, and there are many other issues involved, like the vehicle manufacturer not applying sufficent film build of the clear or not requiring sufficent UV blockers in the clear, etc, which may create premature loss of gloss, clear failure, etc, and then the "care of the vehicle's finish by the owner", having an untrained or prejudiced detail use a wool pad and high speed buffer to remove the sealant coating, can make it all an excercise in fultility.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 22, 2004 12:21AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Ron:
What percentage of wax, either carnuaba or synthetic microcrystaline wax do you use in your wax products?
That is what my point was, to let detailers know how little wax is really in a wax.
What do your chemists tell you is the maximum percentage of wax that you can put in a car wax?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
What percentage of wax, either carnuaba or synthetic microcrystaline wax do you use in your wax products?
That is what my point was, to let detailers know how little wax is really in a wax.
What do your chemists tell you is the maximum percentage of wax that you can put in a car wax?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 22, 2004 01:56AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>Bud, why would I put that information on a public website, let alone, for you to use to direct your outside blenders to follow?
After all, you have made it clear that your experience in this industry and "your chemists" know exactly what it takes to make the "perfect product.
I will share this, depending on the "grade" of the natural, the "grade" of the synthetic, and the other solvent, emulsifiers, the polishing agents, the thickners, the dyes, the amount of water, etc, it may vary from as little as 2% to a high of 4.5%, however that may depend on the other chemical components in the "blend".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
After all, you have made it clear that your experience in this industry and "your chemists" know exactly what it takes to make the "perfect product.
I will share this, depending on the "grade" of the natural, the "grade" of the synthetic, and the other solvent, emulsifiers, the polishing agents, the thickners, the dyes, the amount of water, etc, it may vary from as little as 2% to a high of 4.5%, however that may depend on the other chemical components in the "blend".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 22, 2004 06:11AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Ron:
I am not sure why you would tell me? Why did you?
As you well know, there is nothing proprietory about wax content in a car wax. And, your company knows very well the company that blends DETAIL PLUS chemical, they did some work for AI a few years back, if you recall.
As I told you years ago on another forum, DETAIL PLUS is not a chemical company. We are an equipment company, manufacturing detailing equipment, and selling a very limited line of chemicals to keep "you chemical companies honest."
And, as I have said often, you personally are one of the few "honest ones" out there.
Finally, our blend does a great deal of private blending of chemicals for all the major auto manufacturers, but that is not of much good to detailers, is it?
If it is the chemical companies like yours who give men like John Hughes the information they need, why should we be interested in knowing what they have to say? From what you infer they know only what you have told them.
As you well know, the auto manufacturers only lookout for themselves and try to mitigate any warranty claims they might have.
For the record we are getting samples of carnuaba wax products from a company in "Brazil that is putting in 30% 40% and 50% carnuaba wax, so they tell me. It will be interesting to test these products. What do you think?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
I am not sure why you would tell me? Why did you?
As you well know, there is nothing proprietory about wax content in a car wax. And, your company knows very well the company that blends DETAIL PLUS chemical, they did some work for AI a few years back, if you recall.
As I told you years ago on another forum, DETAIL PLUS is not a chemical company. We are an equipment company, manufacturing detailing equipment, and selling a very limited line of chemicals to keep "you chemical companies honest."
And, as I have said often, you personally are one of the few "honest ones" out there.
Finally, our blend does a great deal of private blending of chemicals for all the major auto manufacturers, but that is not of much good to detailers, is it?
If it is the chemical companies like yours who give men like John Hughes the information they need, why should we be interested in knowing what they have to say? From what you infer they know only what you have told them.
As you well know, the auto manufacturers only lookout for themselves and try to mitigate any warranty claims they might have.
For the record we are getting samples of carnuaba wax products from a company in "Brazil that is putting in 30% 40% and 50% carnuaba wax, so they tell me. It will be interesting to test these products. What do you think?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 23, 2004 01:53AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>Bud,
True reality, based on my years, if the formula has too high a percentage of pure carnuaba, of any of the 4 natural grades or the much better synthetic grade, in excess of 4 to 8 percent, very hard to remove, very hard to get an even application, etc.
Which is why all the "carnuaba" that I have been exposed to, use some sort of other ingredients to ease the application and removal.
These "additives" may vary, dependant upon the blender or manufacturer, however they are very necessary.
One reason being the fracture point of natural carnuabas, ranging from around 140F to a high of around 165F, vs the higher frature point of a quality German produced synthetic, which dependant upon the blending method may be able to withstand close to 190F.
Fracture or "evaporative" point is very important, in order to maintain a "coating" of the waxes for any length of time.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
True reality, based on my years, if the formula has too high a percentage of pure carnuaba, of any of the 4 natural grades or the much better synthetic grade, in excess of 4 to 8 percent, very hard to remove, very hard to get an even application, etc.
Which is why all the "carnuaba" that I have been exposed to, use some sort of other ingredients to ease the application and removal.
These "additives" may vary, dependant upon the blender or manufacturer, however they are very necessary.
One reason being the fracture point of natural carnuabas, ranging from around 140F to a high of around 165F, vs the higher frature point of a quality German produced synthetic, which dependant upon the blending method may be able to withstand close to 190F.
Fracture or "evaporative" point is very important, in order to maintain a "coating" of the waxes for any length of time.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 23, 2004 02:50AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Does a paste carnuaba wax have more carnuaba in it than a liquid? If so, does that make paste waxes more durable even though I've read in multiple magazines that the choice is just based on preference? And isn't carnuaba wax yesterday's technology since we have synthetic polymer sealants now?
Bud, I tried Diamond Plus recently and must say I'm very impressed with it.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
Bud, I tried Diamond Plus recently and must say I'm very impressed with it.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 23, 2004 05:05AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>The only difference between a paste and liquid is simply an adjustment of ingredients that makes one more solid than the other. The key to durability and shine has to do with other ingredients.
If one is more solid than the other does not mean it has more or less wax content.
The only way you know about wax content is what the manufacturer tells you. Since we do not sell a wax I cannot tell you what our "wax" content is.
You are right, in my opinion, a wax is old technology vs a paint sealant. However the chemical companies have found a great way to charge detailers and consumers more money for one than the other by playing up the "space-age polymer" bit.
Sure, there is a little more cost in a paint sealant than a wax, but not $45 a quart or 16oz bottle's worth.
In fact, some waxes contain amino-functional silicones. Are they then a wax or a paint sealant?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
If one is more solid than the other does not mean it has more or less wax content.
The only way you know about wax content is what the manufacturer tells you. Since we do not sell a wax I cannot tell you what our "wax" content is.
You are right, in my opinion, a wax is old technology vs a paint sealant. However the chemical companies have found a great way to charge detailers and consumers more money for one than the other by playing up the "space-age polymer" bit.
Sure, there is a little more cost in a paint sealant than a wax, but not $45 a quart or 16oz bottle's worth.
In fact, some waxes contain amino-functional silicones. Are they then a wax or a paint sealant?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 23, 2004 05:08AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Thank you for your comments Ron. That is what I have heard also. That too high a content of wax will make the product to difficult to remove and leave to oily a film on the car.
So then, what makes one wax better than another, say if they both contain about 5% wax content?
And, what about these companies like Swissol who claim to have waxes with 30% wax; 40% and 50% wax content? Saw their advertisement in the Robb Report, the magazine for the rich and famous.
Regards
bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
So then, what makes one wax better than another, say if they both contain about 5% wax content?
And, what about these companies like Swissol who claim to have waxes with 30% wax; 40% and 50% wax content? Saw their advertisement in the Robb Report, the magazine for the rich and famous.
Regards
bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 24, 2004 01:06AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>"What makes a wax better than another"?
What does the customer base of the companies defined demographics expect?
That is a better question, coupled with "how are we going to create the "selling sizzle" for the product, and "pump up" some feature?
The Swissol presentation is a great example of that sort of "hype", just like Zymol has done for years.
Yeah, a lot of wax will create a "deep shine", but not one that last long for a daily driver, maybe for a "show car" and how big is that market?
Then there are the "anal" types who have to have only the "most expensive" cause it is something I can brag about to my other anal friends, etc.
The reality is that too high of percentage of any higher fracture point wax blend is going to be a bitch to apply as well as do the wipe down.
Now with low fracture waxes such as grade 4 or 3 natural carnuaba, that is not a servere, and then throw in some pariffin and bee's wax to the blend and it gets easier.
However, it will not withstand any normal heat produced by direct exporsure of the horizontal surface of a medium to dark finish vehicle, it will 'fracture" and "evaporate" from the painted surfaces.
I perfer to compound a product in which I want to add some wax content,(gives the "quick shine" for the users, while the real solid protection components complete crosslinking) which uses the synthetic,German carnuaba, which has a fracture point of over 30 degrees F vs the natural Grade 1.
A natural Grade 1 may withstand up to 165 degrees F, while the lower grades start fracturing at as low as 140 degree F.
All one who really cares, has to do to understand the temperatures that a vehicles horizontals, is obtain is one of the easy to use, infared thermo units like the race teams use for checking tire temps.
These are also very useful in seeing how quickly the use of the wrong pads and speeds of a rotary buffer increase the skin temperature of a clear.
(see the article in the Magazine Articles Section at www.autoint.com), it's all there, no bull)
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
What does the customer base of the companies defined demographics expect?
That is a better question, coupled with "how are we going to create the "selling sizzle" for the product, and "pump up" some feature?
The Swissol presentation is a great example of that sort of "hype", just like Zymol has done for years.
Yeah, a lot of wax will create a "deep shine", but not one that last long for a daily driver, maybe for a "show car" and how big is that market?
Then there are the "anal" types who have to have only the "most expensive" cause it is something I can brag about to my other anal friends, etc.
The reality is that too high of percentage of any higher fracture point wax blend is going to be a bitch to apply as well as do the wipe down.
Now with low fracture waxes such as grade 4 or 3 natural carnuaba, that is not a servere, and then throw in some pariffin and bee's wax to the blend and it gets easier.
However, it will not withstand any normal heat produced by direct exporsure of the horizontal surface of a medium to dark finish vehicle, it will 'fracture" and "evaporate" from the painted surfaces.
I perfer to compound a product in which I want to add some wax content,(gives the "quick shine" for the users, while the real solid protection components complete crosslinking) which uses the synthetic,German carnuaba, which has a fracture point of over 30 degrees F vs the natural Grade 1.
A natural Grade 1 may withstand up to 165 degrees F, while the lower grades start fracturing at as low as 140 degree F.
All one who really cares, has to do to understand the temperatures that a vehicles horizontals, is obtain is one of the easy to use, infared thermo units like the race teams use for checking tire temps.
These are also very useful in seeing how quickly the use of the wrong pads and speeds of a rotary buffer increase the skin temperature of a clear.
(see the article in the Magazine Articles Section at www.autoint.com), it's all there, no bull)
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 24, 2004 01:18AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Ron, I was reading the articles the other night. Good information, especially about the history of automotive paint.
I'm still not listed on the Trusted Professional Detailer's section <sniff sniff> :-( Got the sticker on my shop wall though!</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
I'm still not listed on the Trusted Professional Detailer's section <sniff sniff> :-( Got the sticker on my shop wall though!</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
|
Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 24, 2004 01:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>Damn, send an email to bethb@autoint.com and jump her butt!
It is important that you be listed, not just for the free advertising, but if a detailer is not listed on the site, they don't get the lower "Detailer" pricing.
Need you guys to keep me up to date and aid me in keeping some of my people focused.
I have been tied up with some OEM projects here in the states and some that are overseas, so have not been giving some things my full attention.
And at my advanced years, just getting up in the morning takes all my attention span I have left.
They do not take it as a personal affront, but actually rather enjoy the exchange with our customers, so please let her know.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
It is important that you be listed, not just for the free advertising, but if a detailer is not listed on the site, they don't get the lower "Detailer" pricing.
Need you guys to keep me up to date and aid me in keeping some of my people focused.
I have been tied up with some OEM projects here in the states and some that are overseas, so have not been giving some things my full attention.
And at my advanced years, just getting up in the morning takes all my attention span I have left.
They do not take it as a personal affront, but actually rather enjoy the exchange with our customers, so please let her know.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
|
Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 24, 2004 03:09AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>I just sent her an email. Now the price list you sent me that says Detailer's price, is that the final price or is it discounted more like your email said?
I hear you and Bud were Julius Ceasars' personal "chariot detailer!" Just a little age humor :-)</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
I hear you and Bud were Julius Ceasars' personal "chariot detailer!" Just a little age humor :-)</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
|
Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? June 25, 2004 02:02AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>Sent you an email to your address today.
Yes, it is a better price and when we get the "store"back up on the site, I want all to know that those prices are not for "honest detailers", but for consumers.
Don't be shocked when you see those prices and believe me, we will be sure to make sure that those prices are for only "professional detailers", no the "hackers".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
Yes, it is a better price and when we get the "store"back up on the site, I want all to know that those prices are not for "honest detailers", but for consumers.
Don't be shocked when you see those prices and believe me, we will be sure to make sure that those prices are for only "professional detailers", no the "hackers".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
|
Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? December 22, 2006 01:35AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,182 |
Bringing this old thread up to date, the answers are :
According to Griot's Garage, " ...the maximum amount of carnauba you can put in a paste wax is about 30%. "-from Griot's catalogue-
According to Malm's, " It's not the quantity of wax, but the use of quality grades and blends of different Carnauba waxes that creates the highest shine and durability. "-from Car Detailers' Secrets book.
Some brand waxes are more durable in paste form than in liquid. Some are the same. Exotic Carnauba waxes are sometimes only in paste form because a high percentage of Carnauba makes them hard to liquify.
Malm's claims you can wax a large car with only 1/2 ounce of their liquid wax,
which costs about $33 for 16 ounces.
Doug
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2006 10:41AM by Doug Delmont.
According to Griot's Garage, " ...the maximum amount of carnauba you can put in a paste wax is about 30%. "-from Griot's catalogue-
According to Malm's, " It's not the quantity of wax, but the use of quality grades and blends of different Carnauba waxes that creates the highest shine and durability. "-from Car Detailers' Secrets book.
Some brand waxes are more durable in paste form than in liquid. Some are the same. Exotic Carnauba waxes are sometimes only in paste form because a high percentage of Carnauba makes them hard to liquify.
Malm's claims you can wax a large car with only 1/2 ounce of their liquid wax,
which costs about $33 for 16 ounces.
Doug
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2006 10:41AM by Doug Delmont.
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? December 22, 2006 03:38AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
Doug,
As much I dislike responding to someone such as you, who has no real knowledge of the chemistry involved, I am going to do so.
Think about this, for "ONE" moment, if you would.
To you "extensive knowledge", which you are so "free" with tossing about, "does Griot's make any wax or polish product?
Or, do they use outside blenders, providers and then present their "marketing" verbage regarding their "branded" products, in such a way that creates a "comfort level" for their potential or current, customers?
In reality, as most would be aware of of, they are a "marketing company", not a producer, they have no staff chemist or paid, group of graduated chemists, they have no production facility, no packaging, etc, they do not create anything.
They "sell".
And they love people such as you.
You are easy, you buy into the marketing, you do your little, "sort of tests", you find from these "tests", the results that make you feel important.
Yet, you fail to do let people know what your real background in the "detailing business" is, how long you have been successful in making a profitable living at doing so, where you are located, etc.
People like Jim Baker,the guy who "wrote the bio of Howard Hughes, etc, etc must be your hero's.
Ketch
As much I dislike responding to someone such as you, who has no real knowledge of the chemistry involved, I am going to do so.
Think about this, for "ONE" moment, if you would.
To you "extensive knowledge", which you are so "free" with tossing about, "does Griot's make any wax or polish product?
Or, do they use outside blenders, providers and then present their "marketing" verbage regarding their "branded" products, in such a way that creates a "comfort level" for their potential or current, customers?
In reality, as most would be aware of of, they are a "marketing company", not a producer, they have no staff chemist or paid, group of graduated chemists, they have no production facility, no packaging, etc, they do not create anything.
They "sell".
And they love people such as you.
You are easy, you buy into the marketing, you do your little, "sort of tests", you find from these "tests", the results that make you feel important.
Yet, you fail to do let people know what your real background in the "detailing business" is, how long you have been successful in making a profitable living at doing so, where you are located, etc.
People like Jim Baker,the guy who "wrote the bio of Howard Hughes, etc, etc must be your hero's.
Ketch
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? December 22, 2006 04:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 146 |
It's not to disrespect you in anyway' Before you was this big industry man at AI What was you before? Sound like your pissing on less knowledge people. All he did was gave his KNOWLEGDE of what he read.Guess that make you big man on campus because you can say big words about the automotive painting industry and you have the knowlegde?????????????????
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Re: How Much Carnuaba Wax in a Wax? December 22, 2006 03:46PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,182 |
Ketch-
Griot's products are now used exclusively by a motorcycle museum. Their Show Car Wax is not only on show cars but on show winners. Can your products compete with theirs ?
You dismissed Zaino as a fad but it is still around and inundated with testimonials and used on show cars. How many testimonials are there for your waxes ?
You once said a competitor's wax would last only 5 days . Several posts agreed but one guy said he gets 45 days out of that wax. You didn't address whether your comment could have been unfair. Why ?
You implied that Invisible Glass could damage vinyl if accidentally sprayed onto it. Stoner's says incidental spraying won't do damage and to simply wipe it off. Why hasn't it damaged MY vinyl ?
When Collinite was discussed, you warned that it must not be flooded with water until cured.
See a pattern here ? I think you use this forum to trash your competition unfairly. That's why you want me to shut up.
Doug
Griot's products are now used exclusively by a motorcycle museum. Their Show Car Wax is not only on show cars but on show winners. Can your products compete with theirs ?
You dismissed Zaino as a fad but it is still around and inundated with testimonials and used on show cars. How many testimonials are there for your waxes ?
You once said a competitor's wax would last only 5 days . Several posts agreed but one guy said he gets 45 days out of that wax. You didn't address whether your comment could have been unfair. Why ?
You implied that Invisible Glass could damage vinyl if accidentally sprayed onto it. Stoner's says incidental spraying won't do damage and to simply wipe it off. Why hasn't it damaged MY vinyl ?
When Collinite was discussed, you warned that it must not be flooded with water until cured.
See a pattern here ? I think you use this forum to trash your competition unfairly. That's why you want me to shut up.
Doug
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