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wax/polish
Posted by ED & LINDA
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wax/polish September 08, 2003 01:59AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10 |
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Re: wax/polish September 08, 2003 05:00AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Ed & Linda:
You have a conflict of terms in your question. Let me give you a brief definition of terms that will help you understand paint finishing chemicals:
Compounds - used for correcting paint finish problems such as oxidation in single stage paint finishes; scratches; spots; heavy dirt.
Swirl Remover - this is used after the compound to eliminate buffing swirls casued by the compound. There are two types, eliminators and fillers. You want to use an eliminator.
Polish - personally I think you can use a swirl remover as a polish too. A polish is designed to smooth the paint and create a high shine. But that is what a swirl remover will do too. You need only one product a swirl remover/polish.
A polish is not a wax.
Wax/Paint Sealant - these are used for protecting the paint after compound; swirl removing and/or polishing. The best to use is a paint sealant if the price is reasonable. Most chemical companies charge way too much for a paint sealant. They are easy to apply and remove and more durable than a wax.
Glaze - this is a body shop safe swirl remover/polish because it does not contain silicones which seal paint and you cannot do this for 60 days.
So with these definitions you cannot even compare a polish and a wax as they are really two different products.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
You have a conflict of terms in your question. Let me give you a brief definition of terms that will help you understand paint finishing chemicals:
Compounds - used for correcting paint finish problems such as oxidation in single stage paint finishes; scratches; spots; heavy dirt.
Swirl Remover - this is used after the compound to eliminate buffing swirls casued by the compound. There are two types, eliminators and fillers. You want to use an eliminator.
Polish - personally I think you can use a swirl remover as a polish too. A polish is designed to smooth the paint and create a high shine. But that is what a swirl remover will do too. You need only one product a swirl remover/polish.
A polish is not a wax.
Wax/Paint Sealant - these are used for protecting the paint after compound; swirl removing and/or polishing. The best to use is a paint sealant if the price is reasonable. Most chemical companies charge way too much for a paint sealant. They are easy to apply and remove and more durable than a wax.
Glaze - this is a body shop safe swirl remover/polish because it does not contain silicones which seal paint and you cannot do this for 60 days.
So with these definitions you cannot even compare a polish and a wax as they are really two different products.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: wax/polish September 08, 2003 05:21AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 634 |
<HTML>Hi Ed and Linda,
Bud is totally right about the definitions of each product. I have to wonder about the other detailers that have been giving you advice though. A serious professional should be able to explain the things thatwe explain to you here and they should do this willingly. If they cant or wont then I personally doubt there level of skill and knowledge.
Alot of people wash and wax cars and call themselves detailers but that doesnt mean they really know what they are talking about. Detailers are much like other professions where there are some experienced, knowledgable people and there are also the simple wash and wax type of shops that dont really know what is going on in the more professional circles.
If you really want a well done job the detailer would most likely follow Bud's steps and do both a polish THEN a wax. Polishing just prepares the paint for a protective coat of wax or sealant and doesnt really substitute wax at all. That said there are a few products out there that some use that is supposed to polish and wax at the same time but this shouldnt be what you pay a professional detailer for. The longevity and looks of a treatment like this isnt what you are probably wanting. This type of treatment is offered mostly for used car dealerships, auctions and resale in general where quality is not such an issue but money is. I do it for a few dealers with a cheap one step product because they ask for it but I dont do this for the regular car owners who come to the shop.
When you get the car detailed let us know what you ended up getting and I would be interested to hear the results of your search for a good detailer.
Best regards,
John Sharp</HTML>
Bud is totally right about the definitions of each product. I have to wonder about the other detailers that have been giving you advice though. A serious professional should be able to explain the things thatwe explain to you here and they should do this willingly. If they cant or wont then I personally doubt there level of skill and knowledge.
Alot of people wash and wax cars and call themselves detailers but that doesnt mean they really know what they are talking about. Detailers are much like other professions where there are some experienced, knowledgable people and there are also the simple wash and wax type of shops that dont really know what is going on in the more professional circles.
If you really want a well done job the detailer would most likely follow Bud's steps and do both a polish THEN a wax. Polishing just prepares the paint for a protective coat of wax or sealant and doesnt really substitute wax at all. That said there are a few products out there that some use that is supposed to polish and wax at the same time but this shouldnt be what you pay a professional detailer for. The longevity and looks of a treatment like this isnt what you are probably wanting. This type of treatment is offered mostly for used car dealerships, auctions and resale in general where quality is not such an issue but money is. I do it for a few dealers with a cheap one step product because they ask for it but I dont do this for the regular car owners who come to the shop.
When you get the car detailed let us know what you ended up getting and I would be interested to hear the results of your search for a good detailer.
Best regards,
John Sharp</HTML>
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Re: wax/polish September 08, 2003 08:00AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 42 |
<HTML>Hello,
I think one of the detailers you are working with is trying to compare Waxes to Paint Sealants and is actually getting the term "Paint Sealant” mixed up with "polish". I’m not going to point out what the difference between the Paint Sealant and Polish is as that was already ever so eloquently detailed in an above post by Bud. Just note that your detailer is either trying to “get you” by making his service sound better or is truly confused and the level of his knowledge should be brought into question.
If terminology is the case here then the question is which is better, Wax or Paint Sealant. And that my friend is one tough question to answer. I’m no detailing pro so take my advice with a grain of salt but I feel you can’t really distinguish between the two (if you choose the best there is from each group) because if applied correctly both are very similar with the only difference being the Paint Sealant might last slightly longer.
So in conclusion I wouldn’t worry so much about which is better but rather worry about who has the nicer service and the better reputation. Who can you trust to take care of you and your car and use quality products be it Wax or Paint Sealant or interior cleaner or tire shine. Ask yourself which detailer is going to back up his work for you or provide you with answers to your questions. If you can trust the detailer, you can probably trust that he’s going to use a quality Wax/Paint Sealant.
Good Luck
~Rick</HTML>
I think one of the detailers you are working with is trying to compare Waxes to Paint Sealants and is actually getting the term "Paint Sealant” mixed up with "polish". I’m not going to point out what the difference between the Paint Sealant and Polish is as that was already ever so eloquently detailed in an above post by Bud. Just note that your detailer is either trying to “get you” by making his service sound better or is truly confused and the level of his knowledge should be brought into question.
If terminology is the case here then the question is which is better, Wax or Paint Sealant. And that my friend is one tough question to answer. I’m no detailing pro so take my advice with a grain of salt but I feel you can’t really distinguish between the two (if you choose the best there is from each group) because if applied correctly both are very similar with the only difference being the Paint Sealant might last slightly longer.
So in conclusion I wouldn’t worry so much about which is better but rather worry about who has the nicer service and the better reputation. Who can you trust to take care of you and your car and use quality products be it Wax or Paint Sealant or interior cleaner or tire shine. Ask yourself which detailer is going to back up his work for you or provide you with answers to your questions. If you can trust the detailer, you can probably trust that he’s going to use a quality Wax/Paint Sealant.
Good Luck
~Rick</HTML>
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Re: wax/polish January 22, 2007 08:59PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,182 |
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Re: wax/polish January 23, 2007 01:27AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
There are three processes in paint finishing:
a. Correction of a problem, done with a rotary buffer, cutting pad and compound
b. Swirl Removing and/or Polishing, done with a rotary buffer, polishing pad and swirl remover or polish. THE PURPOSE OF THIS STEP IS EITHER TO REMOVE SWIRLS PUT IN FROM THE CUTTING PAD AND COMPOUND, or if you are just starting with a polish then to BRING THE PAINT TO A HIGH SHINE OR GLOSS
c. Protect, done with an orbital or hand application of wax or paint sealant.
If you want a copy of an article I wrote on the difference between a wax or paint sealant let me know buda@detailplus.com
Regards
Bud Abraham
a. Correction of a problem, done with a rotary buffer, cutting pad and compound
b. Swirl Removing and/or Polishing, done with a rotary buffer, polishing pad and swirl remover or polish. THE PURPOSE OF THIS STEP IS EITHER TO REMOVE SWIRLS PUT IN FROM THE CUTTING PAD AND COMPOUND, or if you are just starting with a polish then to BRING THE PAINT TO A HIGH SHINE OR GLOSS
c. Protect, done with an orbital or hand application of wax or paint sealant.
If you want a copy of an article I wrote on the difference between a wax or paint sealant let me know buda@detailplus.com
Regards
Bud Abraham
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Re: wax/polish January 23, 2007 03:03AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,182 |
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Re: wax/polish January 23, 2007 06:40AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
Doug
Why don't you mind your own business. If the poster did not understand my explanation they can say so. Why do you feel you have to dominate this forum by answering for everyone else.
However, since you brought up the point all I can say is that a detailer must come up with definitions that are clear to him and ignore what chemical companies call their products.
Chemicals, for the most part are a commodity that is you can buy the same thing from any legitimate chemical company. (Dollar Store chemicals excluded).
Therefore they give their products names so as to differentiate them from the others, but in reality they are much the same.
Compounds are for correcting paint finish problems
Swirl Removers are for removing buffer swirls put in by the cutting pad and compund. (Keep in mind that if you use too aggressive a pad or compound for the paint finish you will NOT have swirls, but scratches in the form of swirls and they must be removed by a lighter compound).
Polishes are for polishing a paint finish to a high shine/gloss before waxing.
Waxes or Paint Sealants are for protection.
Glazes are polishes used in body shops that have no silicones or waxes in them as you cannot seal a new paint finish for 60 to 90 days to allow solvents to evaporate.
One Steps are just that a low cost, low quality product designed to correct, polish and protect in one application. Originally formulated for dealer cars.
That should clarify and give detailers a clear picture of what to ask for when selecting products.
RULE No. ! - Never ask a chemical sales person a YES or NO question. They will always answer the way they think you want them to answer. See the point?
Regards
Bud Abraham
Why don't you mind your own business. If the poster did not understand my explanation they can say so. Why do you feel you have to dominate this forum by answering for everyone else.
However, since you brought up the point all I can say is that a detailer must come up with definitions that are clear to him and ignore what chemical companies call their products.
Chemicals, for the most part are a commodity that is you can buy the same thing from any legitimate chemical company. (Dollar Store chemicals excluded).
Therefore they give their products names so as to differentiate them from the others, but in reality they are much the same.
Compounds are for correcting paint finish problems
Swirl Removers are for removing buffer swirls put in by the cutting pad and compund. (Keep in mind that if you use too aggressive a pad or compound for the paint finish you will NOT have swirls, but scratches in the form of swirls and they must be removed by a lighter compound).
Polishes are for polishing a paint finish to a high shine/gloss before waxing.
Waxes or Paint Sealants are for protection.
Glazes are polishes used in body shops that have no silicones or waxes in them as you cannot seal a new paint finish for 60 to 90 days to allow solvents to evaporate.
One Steps are just that a low cost, low quality product designed to correct, polish and protect in one application. Originally formulated for dealer cars.
That should clarify and give detailers a clear picture of what to ask for when selecting products.
RULE No. ! - Never ask a chemical sales person a YES or NO question. They will always answer the way they think you want them to answer. See the point?
Regards
Bud Abraham
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Re: wax/polish January 23, 2007 11:17PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 146 |
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Re: wax/polish January 24, 2007 02:16AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,182 |
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Re: wax/polish January 26, 2007 04:01AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,182 |
Gentlemen-
Below is a post from the past that I think says a lot about Bud's remarks above :
Good bye to everyone...
Posted by: wayne (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2003 12:24PM
I am sorry to say I am leaving the forum. Bud Abrahams constant bickering and nonsense has drove another member away...,
I remember when I first started on this forum, there was a lot more traffic and LOTS more good advise, now it has turned into Bud's sales forum, Bud's "know it all even though he has not tried it" forum.
I see no reason to stay on this board and constantly have Bud "nipping at the heels" type posts.
It was nice meeting a LOT of good folks here and I hate to have one bad apple spoil the bunch..., however, it is time for a break from the nonsense...
Everyone..., good luck and take care!!!
( END OF WAYNE'S POST )
....so maybe I'm not the reason people left the forum ? Doug
Below is a post from the past that I think says a lot about Bud's remarks above :
Good bye to everyone...
Posted by: wayne (IP Logged)
Date: March 24, 2003 12:24PM
I am sorry to say I am leaving the forum. Bud Abrahams constant bickering and nonsense has drove another member away...,
I remember when I first started on this forum, there was a lot more traffic and LOTS more good advise, now it has turned into Bud's sales forum, Bud's "know it all even though he has not tried it" forum.
I see no reason to stay on this board and constantly have Bud "nipping at the heels" type posts.
It was nice meeting a LOT of good folks here and I hate to have one bad apple spoil the bunch..., however, it is time for a break from the nonsense...
Everyone..., good luck and take care!!!
( END OF WAYNE'S POST )
....so maybe I'm not the reason people left the forum ? Doug
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Re: wax/polish January 29, 2007 02:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,182 |
The following is from the web site, www.turtlewax.com :
What is the difference between a wax and a polish?
A: The terms wax and polish are used interchangeably today. Most waxes and polishes contain some mild cleaning agents (safe for clear coat finishes) which remove old wax, minor scratches and everyday oxidation. All polish and wax products clean, shine and protect, unless otherwise stated on the label. A polishing compound or compound will clean and shine only. [end of quote]
Note : Illustrates my point. If someone argues in favor of polish over wax, chances are he means "sealant".
What is the difference between a wax and a polish?
A: The terms wax and polish are used interchangeably today. Most waxes and polishes contain some mild cleaning agents (safe for clear coat finishes) which remove old wax, minor scratches and everyday oxidation. All polish and wax products clean, shine and protect, unless otherwise stated on the label. A polishing compound or compound will clean and shine only. [end of quote]
Note : Illustrates my point. If someone argues in favor of polish over wax, chances are he means "sealant".
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