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Hey Shone, something you said...
Posted by Shane Lavender
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Hey Shone, something you said... November 13, 2003 03:05AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10 |
<HTML>Shone: In a previous string of e-mails, you mentioned retaining your customer’s parking space by placing a cone and sign in their spot. GREAT IDEA! Sounds like your driving your customers car, so that brings up my question.
Does driving a customers car increase a businesses liability?
Do you have business insurance; are your premiums high because of possibly moving a customer’s car?
I'm currently shopping around for insurance (i.e.: Garage Keepers Liability, etc). I've been encouraged by insurance brokers to not drive my customers cars because that would increase liability for my business. Not to mention the substantial increase to my insurance costs. As a start up myself, I'm trying to keep my costs down and that means I need the lowest cost for the best insurance coverage as possible. So, I’ve been trying to figure out a way to not move my client’s car, which will be very hard in some situations.
I've been quoted between $1,300 and $2,500 annually for Basic Garage Keepers Liability Insurance with a $500.00 deductible. Are you or anyone else getting better rates? Can detailers not get liability insurance and not worry?
Thanks,
Shane
Every Last Detail</HTML>
Does driving a customers car increase a businesses liability?
Do you have business insurance; are your premiums high because of possibly moving a customer’s car?
I'm currently shopping around for insurance (i.e.: Garage Keepers Liability, etc). I've been encouraged by insurance brokers to not drive my customers cars because that would increase liability for my business. Not to mention the substantial increase to my insurance costs. As a start up myself, I'm trying to keep my costs down and that means I need the lowest cost for the best insurance coverage as possible. So, I’ve been trying to figure out a way to not move my client’s car, which will be very hard in some situations.
I've been quoted between $1,300 and $2,500 annually for Basic Garage Keepers Liability Insurance with a $500.00 deductible. Are you or anyone else getting better rates? Can detailers not get liability insurance and not worry?
Thanks,
Shane
Every Last Detail</HTML>
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Re: Hey Shone, something you said... November 13, 2003 03:26AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 31 |
<HTML>Hey Shane,
When I was detailing planes I had an 8.6 million dollar liability policy. That was the cost of the most expensive plane I had to work on. I currently have a 500,000 liability policy with 100,000 damage protection. I also have 3,500 dollar tool coverage. I am now paying $1,600.00 per yr. There is almost know way you can have a detail "shop" and not move customers cars. I found as long as I tell them that they will not be taken off the property, just in and out of the garage, there should not be a problem. Now, no insurance is really up to you! I did it for yrs till I started planes. There is 2 ways to look at that.
1. Can you cover any damage you may cause to a vehicle out of pocket?
2. Can you prevent a customer from sewing you if he gets into an accident?
Now the choice is yours....</HTML>
Shone A. Rowley
Mobil Brite
Previous Trainer: Auto Magic of Western NY
When I was detailing planes I had an 8.6 million dollar liability policy. That was the cost of the most expensive plane I had to work on. I currently have a 500,000 liability policy with 100,000 damage protection. I also have 3,500 dollar tool coverage. I am now paying $1,600.00 per yr. There is almost know way you can have a detail "shop" and not move customers cars. I found as long as I tell them that they will not be taken off the property, just in and out of the garage, there should not be a problem. Now, no insurance is really up to you! I did it for yrs till I started planes. There is 2 ways to look at that.
1. Can you cover any damage you may cause to a vehicle out of pocket?
2. Can you prevent a customer from sewing you if he gets into an accident?
Now the choice is yours....</HTML>
Shone A. Rowley
Mobil Brite
Previous Trainer: Auto Magic of Western NY
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Re: Hey Shone, something you said... November 13, 2003 04:12AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>I receieved an insurance quote for "general garage liability" for only $801 a year. The agent asked me if I will be moving any boats and I said no. If I was then it would've been around $1,200 for $1mil liability.
And I thought Jersey had expensive premiums.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
And I thought Jersey had expensive premiums.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Hey Shone, something you said... November 13, 2003 04:21AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
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Re: Hey Shone, something you said... November 13, 2003 06:18AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 382 |
<HTML>$92 a month!!!! What are your coverage limits and deductibles? Man, I gotta move. My monthly premiums, since I'm partially mobile run $115 for auto and $160 for my Bus. Owners Policy (BOP) with $1 mil. limits. My BOP includes garagekeeper's coverage, so I am covered if I damage someone's car or injure somebody driving a customer's car.
Basically, I'm covered for anything that happens at my shop or while I'm driving my customer's cars. You have to be very careful and know that there are big differences between a "Garage Policy" and a "Garagekeeper's Policy". The latter will cover you for any accidents that occur while the customer's car is in your care, custody or control, including your workmanship. The former will cover you for losses arising out of the vehicle while it's on your premises (i.e., emplyee hits a parked car, your building, etc.) and you as the owner and principal of the business may be excluded from coverage under the Garage Policy.
Regarding the workmanship issue...it's critical. Let's say under the Garage Policy, your employee burns through the c/c on that brand new 3 stage, laser red Ferrari to the tune of a $8,000 ....your policy probably will not cover it, Under the Garagekeeper's, you're covered for the damages over the deductible.
I speak from experience because I used to handle claims like this. I saw many, many a small time operator go under because of a single claim because he didn't do his homework and read his policies from cover to cover and ask his agent to define things and tell him exactly what he was covered for. A lot of times, if you're dealing with an agent that you don't know that well, he'll write you a cheap policy just to get your business and send you on your way. Get to know your agent and be square with him on exactly what you do. If you try and cut corners and don't tell him everything, you may be excluding yourself from coverage because a good agent will analyze your needs based on the picture you present. but if you've misrepresented yourself and there's a serious claim down the line, then the company can revoke the policy completely because you were not truthful in what you told your agent.
When it comes to insurance, you can't be careful (or honest) enough. Trust me on this one guys, don't try to cut corners to shave a few bucks off your premiums. It's just not worth risking everything you've worked for. Plus, I've always felt that peace of mind is worth a couple extra bucks anyhow!!</HTML>
Basically, I'm covered for anything that happens at my shop or while I'm driving my customer's cars. You have to be very careful and know that there are big differences between a "Garage Policy" and a "Garagekeeper's Policy". The latter will cover you for any accidents that occur while the customer's car is in your care, custody or control, including your workmanship. The former will cover you for losses arising out of the vehicle while it's on your premises (i.e., emplyee hits a parked car, your building, etc.) and you as the owner and principal of the business may be excluded from coverage under the Garage Policy.
Regarding the workmanship issue...it's critical. Let's say under the Garage Policy, your employee burns through the c/c on that brand new 3 stage, laser red Ferrari to the tune of a $8,000 ....your policy probably will not cover it, Under the Garagekeeper's, you're covered for the damages over the deductible.
I speak from experience because I used to handle claims like this. I saw many, many a small time operator go under because of a single claim because he didn't do his homework and read his policies from cover to cover and ask his agent to define things and tell him exactly what he was covered for. A lot of times, if you're dealing with an agent that you don't know that well, he'll write you a cheap policy just to get your business and send you on your way. Get to know your agent and be square with him on exactly what you do. If you try and cut corners and don't tell him everything, you may be excluding yourself from coverage because a good agent will analyze your needs based on the picture you present. but if you've misrepresented yourself and there's a serious claim down the line, then the company can revoke the policy completely because you were not truthful in what you told your agent.
When it comes to insurance, you can't be careful (or honest) enough. Trust me on this one guys, don't try to cut corners to shave a few bucks off your premiums. It's just not worth risking everything you've worked for. Plus, I've always felt that peace of mind is worth a couple extra bucks anyhow!!</HTML>
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Re: Hey Shone, something you said... November 13, 2003 07:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10 |
<HTML>What a smart group, this forum is awesome.
Can people forward the names of insurance companies you like? And how to get in touch with them? There's a lot out there, when you do a search engine entry for Garage Keepers Insurance.
Rod: I've been quoted - General Liability with limits of $500,000.-per occurrence and $1m. annual aggregate. This would include Bodily Injury Liability and Property Damage Liability and would have certain broad additional features such as Liability for libel, slander, detramation of character, false arrest, malicious prosecution, wrongful eviction, wrongful entry, advertising injury, and others. It would also have voluntary medical payments with a limit of $1K. $500.00 deductable.
All for just more than $2,000.00 per year. (That price is in the middle range based off of the 5 companies I had quote).
Based on your experiance and knowledge, would you consider that a complete quote? Any tips? Thanks!
Shane
Every Last Detail</HTML>
Can people forward the names of insurance companies you like? And how to get in touch with them? There's a lot out there, when you do a search engine entry for Garage Keepers Insurance.
Rod: I've been quoted - General Liability with limits of $500,000.-per occurrence and $1m. annual aggregate. This would include Bodily Injury Liability and Property Damage Liability and would have certain broad additional features such as Liability for libel, slander, detramation of character, false arrest, malicious prosecution, wrongful eviction, wrongful entry, advertising injury, and others. It would also have voluntary medical payments with a limit of $1K. $500.00 deductable.
All for just more than $2,000.00 per year. (That price is in the middle range based off of the 5 companies I had quote).
Based on your experiance and knowledge, would you consider that a complete quote? Any tips? Thanks!
Shane
Every Last Detail</HTML>
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Re: Hey Shone, something you said... November 13, 2003 02:27PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 333 |
<HTML>I just dropped American Family Insurance, the first year they were $850 a year. I got my bill last month and it was double> I never had a claim either. When I called my agent he said rising costs made my premuim go up. So I said, your rising costs made me go elsewhere. I got the same coverage with United Fire and Family for $912.00 a year. I'm covered for driving customers cars as well. just a thought, shop around. Gary</HTML>
"Clean cars drive better" www.perfectautofinish.com
"Clean cars drive better" www.perfectautofinish.com
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Re: Hey Shone, something you said... November 13, 2003 09:49PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 382 |
<HTML>Shane-The coverage that you've been quoted for is a General Liability (GL)policy. It looks like it's the broadened (as opposed to standard or limited) form.
GL coverage is good to have and all businesses should have it. Now, ask your agent if this coverage includes any garage operations such as Garagekeepers (GK) Liability. If it's a standard biz policy, it shouldn't or at the very most, coverage is limited to a very few, specified types of incidents.
You also want to ask your agent if, for example, you (and not an employee) damages a car while working on it (i.e. burn through the c/c or scratch the hell out of it because there was a piece of debris in your wash mitt & you didn't know until you rinsed the car off, you power wash an engine and damage it, etc.) will your policy pay the full repair/replacement cost arising out of the damage casued by your work. Ask the same question if the damage is done by an employee.
Also, if your shop has a hydraulic lift in it, your insurance rates could double and you could be put in a body or mechanical shop classification. Keep that in mind if you're looking for space. Try and avoid lifts. They're an insurance nightmare because if they malfunction with someone working under them, the results are catastrophic or fatal over 90% of the time, so big, big premiums for that type of risk. Besides, as detailers, why would we want to be working under a lift anyhow. If you're doing undercarriage flushes, you can use a small floor jack or put the car on ramps to do it. This is one way around it. Or just get down on your hands & knees & spray.
You also want to ask your agent if you're covered if a customer is out in your shop for some reason and they trip and fall over a hose, drain cover, etc. and are injured, will your policy cover that claim. This falls under the bodily injury-premises liability coverage. How your lease is worded will be important here, but most building owners have a hold-harmless clause in the lease which means that the party leasing the premises is responsbile for any injuries or property damage occurring while the tenant occupies the premises. You should have signs posted all over the place that customers are not allowed in the work area. The bigger, the better, the more, the merrier. And if a non-employee wanders into the work area, immediately escort them into the waiting room and point out the signs. It goes a long way toward defending the claim if you can show that adequate notice was plain and visible. There are people out there who will wander into a work area and fake a slip/fall claim and collect thousands of dollars from insurance companies. You can never be too careful. But, on a more serious note concerning legitimate claims, the average cost of a broken leg or severe ankle sprain is in the $25-$50,000 range depending on several factors such as age, employment status, etc. of the injured party.
Make sure you ask your agent a ton of questions. Give him all kinds of different scenarios and clarify whether you're covered. You can never ask too many questions and as your situation changes, make sure you keep your agent advised so he can add any endorsements to your policy to make sure that you maintain adequate coverages.
Finally, premiums on all types of insurance are going up across the board, due in part to insurance companies losing investment income due to the recent downward tend in the stock market and especially due to 9/11. That single incident cost the insuranc industry tens of billions of dollars in losses paid out. The ripple effect is still continuinig and all facets of business were affected. From direct damage to property and loss of life to income being lost due to reduction in travel, industry, etc. It was the single greatest blow to the insurance industry, ever. That's why every carrier is altering their policies to limit or exclude loss and damage due to terrorist acts. It's too big a risk for them to undertake.
I know a lot of us complain about insurance companies taking advantage of people and costing too much, but you just have to look at it as another business expense. I can tell you this...you only get taken advantage of if you choose to remain an ignorant, uninformed consumer. Educate yourself, ask questions and shop around. The cheapest premium may not always give you the best coverage for your particulat situation. It's quite different for each of us. That's why you not only have to shop around for the best coverage, but for the best agent as well. And as far as carriers being unfair, try to imagine if there were no insurance at all and it was left up to the government to try and help you in the event of a loss. It would just be disastrous as it is with flood programs where people are lucky to get 40 cents on the dollar. The insurance industry in America is the largest privately funded social relief program ever created. And all things considered, does a great job of helping individuals and businesses in times of loss. I'd rather place my trust there than with a government funded program. The insurance companies do a much better job and I get much more for my money, lol!!!
And with that, I'll step down off my soap box.</HTML>
GL coverage is good to have and all businesses should have it. Now, ask your agent if this coverage includes any garage operations such as Garagekeepers (GK) Liability. If it's a standard biz policy, it shouldn't or at the very most, coverage is limited to a very few, specified types of incidents.
You also want to ask your agent if, for example, you (and not an employee) damages a car while working on it (i.e. burn through the c/c or scratch the hell out of it because there was a piece of debris in your wash mitt & you didn't know until you rinsed the car off, you power wash an engine and damage it, etc.) will your policy pay the full repair/replacement cost arising out of the damage casued by your work. Ask the same question if the damage is done by an employee.
Also, if your shop has a hydraulic lift in it, your insurance rates could double and you could be put in a body or mechanical shop classification. Keep that in mind if you're looking for space. Try and avoid lifts. They're an insurance nightmare because if they malfunction with someone working under them, the results are catastrophic or fatal over 90% of the time, so big, big premiums for that type of risk. Besides, as detailers, why would we want to be working under a lift anyhow. If you're doing undercarriage flushes, you can use a small floor jack or put the car on ramps to do it. This is one way around it. Or just get down on your hands & knees & spray.
You also want to ask your agent if you're covered if a customer is out in your shop for some reason and they trip and fall over a hose, drain cover, etc. and are injured, will your policy cover that claim. This falls under the bodily injury-premises liability coverage. How your lease is worded will be important here, but most building owners have a hold-harmless clause in the lease which means that the party leasing the premises is responsbile for any injuries or property damage occurring while the tenant occupies the premises. You should have signs posted all over the place that customers are not allowed in the work area. The bigger, the better, the more, the merrier. And if a non-employee wanders into the work area, immediately escort them into the waiting room and point out the signs. It goes a long way toward defending the claim if you can show that adequate notice was plain and visible. There are people out there who will wander into a work area and fake a slip/fall claim and collect thousands of dollars from insurance companies. You can never be too careful. But, on a more serious note concerning legitimate claims, the average cost of a broken leg or severe ankle sprain is in the $25-$50,000 range depending on several factors such as age, employment status, etc. of the injured party.
Make sure you ask your agent a ton of questions. Give him all kinds of different scenarios and clarify whether you're covered. You can never ask too many questions and as your situation changes, make sure you keep your agent advised so he can add any endorsements to your policy to make sure that you maintain adequate coverages.
Finally, premiums on all types of insurance are going up across the board, due in part to insurance companies losing investment income due to the recent downward tend in the stock market and especially due to 9/11. That single incident cost the insuranc industry tens of billions of dollars in losses paid out. The ripple effect is still continuinig and all facets of business were affected. From direct damage to property and loss of life to income being lost due to reduction in travel, industry, etc. It was the single greatest blow to the insurance industry, ever. That's why every carrier is altering their policies to limit or exclude loss and damage due to terrorist acts. It's too big a risk for them to undertake.
I know a lot of us complain about insurance companies taking advantage of people and costing too much, but you just have to look at it as another business expense. I can tell you this...you only get taken advantage of if you choose to remain an ignorant, uninformed consumer. Educate yourself, ask questions and shop around. The cheapest premium may not always give you the best coverage for your particulat situation. It's quite different for each of us. That's why you not only have to shop around for the best coverage, but for the best agent as well. And as far as carriers being unfair, try to imagine if there were no insurance at all and it was left up to the government to try and help you in the event of a loss. It would just be disastrous as it is with flood programs where people are lucky to get 40 cents on the dollar. The insurance industry in America is the largest privately funded social relief program ever created. And all things considered, does a great job of helping individuals and businesses in times of loss. I'd rather place my trust there than with a government funded program. The insurance companies do a much better job and I get much more for my money, lol!!!
And with that, I'll step down off my soap box.</HTML>
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