Reflowing modern thermoset catalysed paint

this is for the paint experts and people like BUDA

with the modern paints being thermoset catalysed systems, will their ever be a way to reflow aka make the defects in the paint dissolve?

I've been playing with this for nearly a year using various non abrasive systems at up to 3000 rpm with a rotary using special lubricant to prevent twisting, delaminating and burning/scoring of the paint and gotten this to happen somewhat but also suffered the effect of driving some defects on certain paints further in and also marring the paint
managed to reduce orange peel a little with it, using a combo of heating then cooling the panel then repeating this over and over

to be honest, correction is great but I want to eventually make that obsolete as it takes too long, reduces the depth of the clear coat which also cuts down the UV protection of the paint.

have worked on the new self healing reflow paints on nissan vehicles using soft foam pads and our single polish system or using UV curing lamps but these paints have poor chemical resistance

I wonder if the new powdered paints will allow us to reflow and if super cooling the current paints instead of using solvents and super high speed buffing, will achieve the result

there are too many variables in correcting and detailing in general and we need to eliminate these and come up with a set process thats quicker but better, if the industry will be respected and franchising becomes mainstream

Svr 73

IMO, the paint on a car is the best it will ever be is on the day you buy it new.
Detailers seem to be more concerned with correction than protection.Sure, there may
be some flaws in the paint when new, but not that many that full correction methods
are needed all the time.<br>

The problem is that detailers are more concerned about shine and beading than
true protection. If you want to eliminate correction, than get detailers to wake up
and realize that using wax is the problem.They live in this dreamland believing
that wax is not the problem, but bad washing procedures, using the wrong towel,
going through a car wash, using a strong soap, and other myths as excuses. <br>

The answer to your question is to use an acrylic sealant like tough seal, or AT-5.
If you protect the micro pores of the clear, then, there will be no need to reflow
the paint as you say it.

Quote
billd55
Svr 73

IMO, the paint on a car is the best it will ever be is on the day you buy it new.
Detailers seem to be more concerned with correction than protection.Sure, there may
be some flaws in the paint when new, but not that many that full correction methods
are needed all the time.<br>

The problem is that detailers are more concerned about shine and beading than
true protection. If you want to eliminate correction, than get detailers to wake up
and realize that using wax is the problem.They live in this dreamland believing
that wax is not the problem, but bad washing procedures, using the wrong towel,
going through a car wash, using a strong soap, and other myths as excuses. <br>

The answer to your question is to use an acrylic sealant like tough seal, or AT-5.
If you protect the micro pores of the clear, then, there will be no need to reflow
the paint as you say it.

I love shine too but only a true shine, not a greasy silicony one.
however protection is the most important. beading I dont give a shit about
havent used waxes in my shop for many years. outlawed them altogether

how long do swirls get filled in for with the AT-5?
I get a year with glare

Svr73

how long do swirls get filled in for with the AT-5?
I get a year with glare

I am unsure what you mean by saying swirls get filled.The only things I know that will cover swirls are wax and glazes, but that is only for a short period.<br>

When applying an acrylic sealant it is extremely for the clear coat to be completely clean. If a car has swirls, I start with a wash using Dawn soap.
I follow that up with a clay bar, and if necessary I use a acrylic pre cleaner.<br>

The only thing left should be scratches,and in most cases they cannot be removed.
I am not familiar with Glare polish, so I cannot make a comment about the product. At-5 will last one year also, and the shine is very deep. Yearly applications are to maintain the shine and protection. <br>

AT-5 is very durable, and the shine is equal to any wax or polish I have seen.
You can wash it with Dawn, and it will look great.Plus, I can buy a gallon
for $40.00 which will do around 50 cars. Check out the video I posted.

I dont recommend using Dawn, its better IMO to invest in quality decontamination products that remove a hell of a lot of crud from the surface and sub surface
then clay to finish off

glare fills in for a long time as after the first three products are applied, the next one locks all the others in. there are three sealants overall.

both toughseal and glare are excellent products but the future looks even better for vehicle protection

The Auto manufacturers use a 2 part thermo-curing paint on the assembly line to paint vehicles probably 99% of which is base-cost/clear-coat. To cure this paint must be heated to over 300 degrees F. This is possible since there is nothing on the vehicle but metal.

If there is any correction required after assembly they use an "acid-catalyzed" 2 part thermo-curing paint which is the same paint only that the acid catalyzation lowers the curing temperature.

In the aftermarket they use a slightly different paint that will cure at 140 degrees F.

Most all of these paints are polyuretane enamel. The base-cost might be water-based but most still use a solvent-based clear.

These types of paint don't "Free-Flow" as did the old style laquers.

Nissan prematurely announced they had a self-correcting paint that did not really do what was claimed.

Hope that helps

Bud... can you explain " These types of paint don't "Free-Flow" as did the old style laquers." Can you elaborate and explain what you mean by the above statement?

Gina

Contact me direct and I will send you a complete seminar on High Tech Paint Finishes.

Bud Abraham

I do not mind contacting you... but think you are missing a great opportunity to not only educate bu inform those here on what the terms mean.

Quote
buda
The Auto manufacturers use a 2 part thermo-curing paint on the assembly line to paint vehicles probably 99% of which is base-cost/clear-coat. To cure this paint must be heated to over 300 degrees F. This is possible since there is nothing on the vehicle but metal.

If there is any correction required after assembly they use an "acid-catalyzed" 2 part thermo-curing paint which is the same paint only that the acid catalyzation lowers the curing temperature.

In the aftermarket they use a slightly different paint that will cure at 140 degrees F.

Most all of these paints are polyuretane enamel. The base-cost might be water-based but most still use a solvent-based clear.

These types of paint don't "Free-Flow" as did the old style laquers.

Nissan prematurely announced they had a self-correcting paint that did not really do what was claimed.

Hope that helps

thanks bud, great advice as always
I had the pleasure of working on a nissan gtr with the self healing reflow paint, which unlike many detailers realise (but I knew about) is quite low in abrasion resistance thus only soft cut foam and system one x3 or xpert single polish systems was needed to fix the problem and it did it really quick

there has to be a way to dissolve defects instead of cutting them out thus removing paint which reduces the strength of the paint, takes away some UV protection, reduces clarity and depth and is so old school

Far too complicated to give a brief answer. Anyone can contact me by phone to discuss

As Gina stated, why miss an opportunity to assist fellow detailers with knowledge and information.

Thank you Gina for reminding me of that.

What I have done is gone through some of my resources on automotive paint systems and found a couple of sites that I think will be of interest to those wanting more information on today's sophisticated coating systems.

Try these two linkds:

[wwww.pfonline.com]

[www.uvrobotics.com]

Hope that adds to your knowledge of paint finishes

Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

Here is another link that is somewhat "sales-oriented" because it is a BASF-Glasruit site, but has some interesting information that detailers wanting to know more about the advancing paint technology might find informative:

[www.jobwerx.com].

Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

links didnt work bud, kept getting page not found or server error

Quote
billd55
Svr73

how long do swirls get filled in for with the AT-5?
I get a year with glare

I am unsure what you mean by saying swirls get filled.The only things I know that will cover swirls are wax and glazes, but that is only for a short period.<br>

When applying an acrylic sealant it is extremely for the clear coat to be completely clean. If a car has swirls, I start with a wash using Dawn soap.
I follow that up with a clay bar, and if necessary I use a acrylic pre cleaner.<br>

The only thing left should be scratches,and in most cases they cannot be removed.
I am not familiar with Glare polish, so I cannot make a comment about the product. At-5 will last one year also, and the shine is very deep. Yearly applications are to maintain the shine and protection. <br>

AT-5 is very durable, and the shine is equal to any wax or polish I have seen.
You can wash it with Dawn, and it will look great.Plus, I can buy a gallon
for $40.00 which will do around 50 cars. Check out the video I posted.

I am unsure exactly how the glare fills but it may be due to the glass in it as thats 99% of the ingredient in it, no oils or waxes
its possible that glare does it by thickening the paint. the refinisher who uses and sells it says that it replaces lost paint and thickens the micron count

he claims 80 microns of glass can be added to the paint
so far my thickness gauge has only shown 35 microns on my car.

heres his website and you tube
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2010 08:47PM by svr73.