Response to Bobm comment

Paints have changed over the years, for the most part protection products have evolved with those changes. The equiptment that applies these products is better. So tell me, when you perform a detail for a car dealer, do you convince them to spend the money on long term protection for their cars? As we all know, when a used car comes into a dealership it will most likely need correction of some sort. Those of us that do alot of cars for dealerships perform these services and must do so at a very competitive price. Just because you have a product that works well for you, does not mean it works well for me. I do like sealers over wax, however, my clients prefer wax as it gives them the kind of deep shine and depth that helps sell a car before it gets dust on it and its cheap. So maybe instead of calling those of us that do the heavy lifting in the industry 'hacks' perhaps you should buy a carpet extractor and get with the program


First, I do not work for car dealerships.I tried it once and learned my lesson.
You use the words "very competitive prices", but I say cheap.A quality detail requires time and the right products.IMO the vehicles require more work than they
offer to pay.<br>

Second, I totally disagree with you that most cars need correction.I have done
many vehicles and I have never needed to use correction for swirl mark problems.
Paint problems(orange peel or fish eyes) are different. If you use Dawn to wash the car and remove the wax, then use a clay bar, and apply an acrylic sealant,
it works most every case I have seen.<br>

Third,you are right that many people like wax because of the shine.Poly sealants
do not have the shine of wax, and that is why they apply a wax over them. Although, an acrylic sealant is very different. If applied on a clean surface it will be as good as any wax, and provide total protection.I can buy a gallon of At-5 for $40.00 and do 50 to 60 cars.<br>

Fourth, maybe you should get with the program.Carpets were cleaned long before
extraction machine were around. I have used extraction machines, and they are fine
for lightly soiled seats and carpets. Although, I find a wet vac works better
for real dirty carpets and seats. I have had customers come back and complain
when I used a extractor and had stains come back.<br>

Lastly, I do not have a clue what you mean when you say: calling those of us that do the heavy lifting in the industry 'hacks'.Do you mean when someone buys a car
that you detailed and two days later it looks like a freak show mirror with swirl marks all over it and stains reappearing on the seats and carpet.IMO,hack is the
perfect word.I am sure that person really appreciates your work when he has to
pay another detailer to correct this work. <br>

The detailer has no way to know this is occurring because this person will not complain to the dealership. They just find someone else to correct the problem.I have seen
it a million times, and it gives a bad impression to the business.<br>


BUD, your opinions and comments are really not needed.We all know how you feel about AT-5.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2010 06:06PM by billd55.

Buffer Bill

What do you do with a single stage paint finish that is completely oxidized?

Bud Abraham

I use an acrylic pre cleaner, a wheel, and a foam pad. Follow it up with a Dawn
bath. If it does not need a second application, I apply the sealant by hand.

You cannot do this on a stage two paint.I works great for boats, stage 1
paint, and buffing aluminum.

Can you tell me what a "Pre-Cleaner" is? What is the abrasive grit in this cleaner.

Why would you use a buffer and foam pad I thought you said you do not go "correction?"

Why do you wash it after using a pre-cleaner?

I live in a small town Bill, if someone else is correcting my work I would hear about it. You are throwing a pretty big net out there when you start talking about folks that do cars for dealerships 'hacks' Someone has to do them,, Granted we arent getting the 300.00 bucks you guys are getting to do a car, nor are we allowed the kind of time some get. I will say this, our cars, when finished, look as good as anyone else's. We do between 45-50 vehicles a month, Alot of them from farms and ranches. We release them only after they are totally dry. If any stains re-appear they are dealt with. I too have used a wetvac to vacuum up water off of carpet, the extractor works better, ours is an older thermax two stage and it pulls just as hard as our 15 gallon shopvac. When I talk of correction, Im not referring to swirl marks. I dont doubt that your product does what you say it does, Im not even opposed to trying it out. The correction I speak of is plain old scratches from a dog in the back of a truck, or driving through bushes, or shopping cart bangs ect....

Bob

I am not saying you are a hack. I realize that you provide a service given
what you are paid for.For the record, I never said I got $300 for a car.<br>


My problem is that in many cases the things you mention: The correction I speak of is plain old scratches from a dog in the back of a truck, or driving through bushes, or shopping cart bangs ect.... cannot be removed in most cases with
clear coats. Polishing takes time, and if not done right and wax applied will lead to swirl marks.<br>


My suggestion would be to avoid polishing all together. Just wash, clay, and
use a quick detailer for your dealer cars. This way you save time, and avoid
the problem of swirl marks. <br>


I am here to tell fellow detailers that acrylic sealants are here, and what they
can offer. I feel there is a market for truly protecting clearcoats other than
wax. They are not expensive, they have the shine equal to any wax, and easy to apply. I know this because I have used them since 1993.

Bud
I really do not want to this continue fruitless debate with you . I know exactly
where this is going. I know you are looking for a got ya moment to show everyone
here I am wrong and you are right.

Gina it is not that he has no business sense, "he really has no sense." Most of what Buffer Bill says in really nonsense, you and I know that. It is the marketing hype of the companies sellling the paint sealant protection plans to dealers.

What we and all professional detailers know is that you can do a number of different things to paint:


I have wasted enough of my time answering your stupid never ending questions.
This response shows your clear intentions. Why not go over to the other forums?
They will welcome you with open arms. Detail City and Truth in Detailing
are perfect. They support the party line all the way.<br>


This forum allows free thought on new ideas. It is refreshing to not be banned
for saying wax is obsolete.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2010 02:01PM by billd55.

Buffer Bill reading your BS is like watching a dog chase a car, even if he catches it he does not know how to drive it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2010 11:54PM by Custom Detail.

Bill, although I have not tried the at-5, I will. Im always looking for newer better ways to do anything. How does it compare to Zxilon? I have used that product quite a bit as one of my accounts sells it, and I apply it for them. I have washed, clayed and quick detailered my dealer cars, but I want something a little more. Lately I have been experimenting with Auto Magic's BC-2 wax/glaze with a medium grade pad on my dewalt rotary with fair results. I still would like to get rid of scratches more efficiently for these cars however.

Bob have you tried mequiars m-105 or menzerna powergloss compound or super intense polish(meduim compound) All are exellent for scratch removal with minimal hazing.I used the bc line years ago you.ll like these compounds much better. good luck

I have not tried those products, but you can bet I will! Thanks for the tip!

Randy

Buffer Bill reading your BS is like watching a dog chase a car, even if he catches it he does not know how to drive it.


You know something,this comment shows that all you offer is insults.

Bob

I will be glad to give you my source to get AT-5.They offer an excellent pre-cleaner
that would be perfect for fine scratches and restoring shine. It does not use compound to do this, and it offers short term protection also.

I really think AT-5 would work well were you live. Dirt, grime, bugs, and many other things will wash right off. If you want to try it, send me a private message.

well heck Bill, I have no secrets or desire to keep any, feel free to post your source here and I will be glad to give it a shot!