Zaino Bros.

I would like to know your thoughts on Zaino Bros.products vs Meguiars or Mothers with regards to ease of application and durability. I already know that Zaino is EXPENSIVE.
Thanks,

I love Zaino and have tossed all the many other products I'd used in the past. Compared to Zaino nothing else has any durability at all. I see Meguiars Tech is $16 at the local AutoZone which is more expensive than Zaino for less effect. Zaino is cost effective since you can't put it on too thin and it outlasts everything I've tried.

Neil : In your opinion, would Zaino have a place in professional, production detailing? In other words, is it as easy to apply as professional sealants, and if not, is the extra effort significant ? This is assuming the cost is passed on to the customer ( as concoursgarage says ).

NXT tech wax is not very durable. Pros are using #21 instead. Are you saying that Zaino outshines NXT ?

Doug

It's very easy to apply but requires a different procedure that sounds more complicated than it really is. It's all explaind on the Zaino web site. One of our cars is a 92 Honda Civic and when I've had it in for service I've had people ask if it's the new Civic. It has a depth of finish thats hard to believe.

Zaino is not consider a professional detailers product. They do not market other than on the internet as far as I can tell and their market seems to be the car enthusiast who likes to pay top dollar for what we call "boutique" products.

If you like Zaino and you can buy it at the same prices as any professional product then use it. However, if you are paying "boutique" prices for their products I can tell you they are not worth the extra dollars.

Our Comparative Study rated the Zaino products for reflective shine; reflective shine after 12 washings and resistence to corrosion using salt water as a test medium.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bud : Your test, which I thank you for providing me, was not an independent test but rather was done by your company, using your choice of procedures. You may be about to say that these facts don't mean the test was biased or unfair.

I wonder how you'd feel if Sal Zaino tested your product against his and loudly proclaimed his to be the winner.
What follows is the result of independent testing.

Class, please open your copies of the Guru Report to page 46 and read aloud, " Zaino Brothers Show Car Polish...One single ounce of Z-5 or Z-2 is enough to cover a Chevrolet Suburban, twice...It glides on easily and buffs off without any effort...This stuff is bulletproof. It's simply indestructible , and it laughs at the competition...on our test panel, the Zaino is still beading water...seven months after our first and only application...The stuff is simply amazing...won't stain your trim and won't dry white on your emblems...
Page 41 --Overall rating "A-". Durability "A+". Ease of application "B+". Ease of buffing "A+".... Week 6: ...continuing to blind us with its shine."
www.gurureports.org . Editor's Choice winner.
Doug

THANKS DOUG

Doug, the test was not conducted by my company, but for my company. There is a difference.

You were able to read the test protocols and determine for yourself if they were biased or not.

There is no reason why I would want to present biased or slanted results, the reason for the test, which was quite expensive to conduct, was to help detailers have some type of standard by which to judge chemicals.

Keep in mind that our company, first and foremost is an equipment systems manufacturer that sells chemicals we know will work in our system.

However, these chemicals are of the highest quality and can be used by any detailer.

In that respect we do not have to slant tests to make our products seem better than any other, plus personally I would not do that, I have to much respect for the industry and those in it to do that.

If Mr Zaino wanted to spend the money to conduct a test by a company other than his, and his protocols were legitimate I would have no problem with that.

Keep in mind that it by setting up tests like were done for this study a chemical company can actually make a product better than any other.

How? Simple, they keep testing their product's reflective shine against others, using a Glossometer until it is more shine than others by adding the appropriate ingredients.

To make it more durable after 12 washings, again they test the refective shine after 12 washings and they add ingredients until the product has a greater reflective shine than others.

Finally they test their product's resistence to salt water corrosion against all others and add ingredients until it is more resistent than others.

It is really quite simple, chemically to do that.

It is all about chemistry and measurements. The test model provides the measurements.

The hardest part is to get any wax or sealant product to have shine; be resistent to soaps and have corrosion resistence. Because the ingredients for each of these features work against each other. That is where good chemistry and a good chemist comes in.

You will note that on our test the two top products in terms of reflective shine were 18th and 19th out of 25 in resistence to salt water corrosion.

When our DIAMOND PLUS was formulated a few years back this is exactly the test
we used to formulate it to have good shine; durability and corrosion resistence.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bud : I can find no indication in the copy of your test that you provided me that it was conducted by anyone other than your company. I see no lab or other agency named. If I missed it, I apologize. In any case, a test commissioned by you is not an independent test.

You claim you would have no reason to slant the test. How about to boost sales of your product ? I've heard of companies doing exactly that.

Some of the questionable areas of your test are :
1) The use of samples supplied by various detailers. That means that the purity, authenticity, age and condition of the test samples cannot be established.
2) The use of some samples provided without their instructions and the consequent application of these samples contrary to the makers instructions.
Who knows how that might change the results !??
3) The " apples and oranges " testing of one-step products ( cleaner/polish/wax in one bottle ) against pure waxes that are intended to be used after a seperate polish is used.
4) Dependence on a glossometer in spite of Consumer Reports' claim that the glossometer may not indicate what will look glossiest to the human eye.
5) Measuring how well a wax prevents corrosion on bare metal panels may have zero relevance to a wax's performance on vehicle paint.
6) Testing conducted on an old single-stage paint job may not be relevant to use on new clearcoats.
You make it sound as if I am unfairly critical and I resent that. You may have conducted your test as fairly as you could, for all I know. Your motives are not what I question. I reserve the right not to accept the test as valid.
Doug
" Difference of opinion. That's what makes horse racing. "

While my experience is subjective I'm convinced Zaino is great. Everyone I've recommended it to has raved about it too and while I've heard that AutoGlyne (UK) has a clone, I haven't used it as I'm totally happy with Zaino.All of their products are fairly priced and all the ones I've tried work as advertised. They don't cost more except for shipping so whats not to like?

Neil : I don't know what's not to like. I intend to test Zaino and see if I find any reason it is unsuitable for pro use.

I do not intend to test Diamond Plus as anything I say about it might sound suspect in view of my debates with Bud. At least one forum user lauded it, I remember.

Doug

Doug:

I have and use many different type of sealants including Diamond Plus and Zaino.. Our first experience with sealants started with polyglycoat in the 70's on my parents vehicles and we incorporated sealants in our detailing service offerings some 21 years ago.

In fact sealants have been around from the late 30's early 40's and I have advertisements from that era espousing the same protective value of the products. At that time they even had approved centers where this protection could be applied

I can definitively say that Zaino is an excellent product..even if it is a boutique product.. and I do not need to rely on a test to confirm this. What is important is our own first hand experience dealing with thousands of vehicles every year and having the opportunity to see these vehicles sometimes over a 15 year span and seeing the remarkable finishes in terms of gloss these vehicles have

My first experience with Zaino was some 5 years ago, when a client with what I believed to be a nearly flawless black Camaro wanted me to remove some minor swirls.

These swirls were barely noticeable and I tried to convince him to live with it. To no avail could he be convinced.

We washed and prepped the vehicle to be detailed and started to compound out the panel and the pad and products immediately started to gum up. We stopped wiped down with prep solv from Valugard, tried to compound again pad and product gummed up, we wiped down with alcohol with the same results. We took the vehicle to the wash pad used a very strong carwash pre-soak and washed and washed, took the vehicle back into the bay the same experience. Called Ron for advice tried a couple of suggestions and then finally the client to find out what the heck was on the vehicle... he said 52 coats of Zaino..

After several washes with Dawn dishwashing soap, ABC, etc and many hours later we were finally able to compound. Lo and behold what we saw were the most horrific swirls that were masked by the Zaino.

We measured out the paint and found that the dealer had buffed out a rather nasty scratch and paint readings on the hood ranged from 4.75ml to 2.6ml some dangerous damage had been done to the finish.

What the Zaino did was successfully hid/camoflauge if you will the severity of the swirls. My experience while not scientific demonstrated that this sealant was durable and very difficult to remove.

While I do not use on all vehicles I do so for customers who specifically want the product and charge accordingly for the time it takes for extra prepration.

Doug:

You make some good points and they might be valid, but I am not going to debate this with you as it does the forum no good since it has become a two way discussion. If you wish to discuss this further with me either email or call me on my dime 1-800/284-0123.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Neil66 and others : My Zaino test started today. I applied two coats of Z2 after preparing the surface with Griot's Machine Polish #3, a product that leaves no film or residue according to Griot's. I mixed up an ounce of Z2 with 4 drops of ZFX and was able to put two coats on a Honda Accord with almost half an ounce left over. That last half ounce ended up in the trash, unfortunately, because once you mix the stuff, it must be used in a matter of hours.

The finish looks great. Application was a breeze except for time spent reading the directions to learn the new procedure. The 15 to 30 minute drying time between coats is a drawback for pros who want to move cars in and out fast but if this stuff lasts as long as is reported, it could command a huge price premium over carnauba waxes or duller sealants. This is not a side-by-side test so I hesitate to guess whether the Z2 after Griot's polish combination can out-shine Malm's or NXT.

The hand application and recommendation of multiple coats, not to mention the drying time, go against Zaino as an express wax but it might be well worth the trouble to Zaino a retail car for an extra hundred dollars.
Doug
" The majority is always wrong. "-attributed to Mencken-

Doug:

Sorry that I missed your Sept 7 posting about my test. If you do not like the results nor feel the protocols were slant then by all means destroy the test.

The world is full of cynics and believers. It appears you are the former.

If we cannot have faith in the companies and people we do business with how can we be certain that anything we purchase is what they say it is. Part of the transaction, no most of the transaction, has to be based on faith.

If you have no faith in Bud Abraham nor any faith in DETAIL PLUS then you should not purchase anything from us.

As stated before the intent of the test was to give detailers an opportunity to see how the waxes and sealants they are using compared with others.

If you choose to look at the test as slanted or biased that is your perogative, but your product evaluations are certainly no better than ours.

You are not a chemist, you have no idea what goes into products to make them do what they do, you only know they work for you. But we do not know that since we cannot see the result. And, that is only your opinion. So, unless we trust you and believe what you say, based on your knowledge of chemicals and experience with chemicals we have to conclude you are as biased as you say our tests are.

Just some well intentioned thoughts on your posting.

Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

Bud,

I have to agree with your response to Doug.

Subjective testing is just that, but then I have been known to disagree with your test and the protocal used.

At least your's did attempt to use a variety, and you published the cure time, etc.

However, as you are aware, that which you used, is not an ASTM or SAE test approved protocal, nor was it conducted by an independant lab, reconized lab.

You test was, as I say, better than what most do, just lacking the validity of an accepted test protocal or independant lab.

Ketch

Ketch

Thanks for your candid reply. Appreciate your thoughts and comments.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bud,

Your test was at least as valid as Consumer Reports, to some extent.

Neither of us wish to go into the differences I have, for as both being professionals, recognized by both the carwashing and long term detailing industries, know that it is counter productive to all to get involved in professional observations of testing, results etc.

Those who are lacking the decades that Steve, you, me, etc have, tend to get their panties in a bunch when they read things that don't agree with their agenda's.

Ketch

Ketch-
Yeah. I can't stand that sort of person either.
Doug

Good, I hope you mean that, as it is important to look at the whole picture, not just the nice boobies.

Of course, they do make us guys happy.

LOL!

Ketch

You win this round, Ketch. It is past my bedtime so must hit the sack. To be continued.
Doug
" Early to rise and early to bed makes a man healthy and wealthy and dead. "

Bud-
The issue was not my "faith" or lack thereof in you or your company. It was the narrow question of your test's validity. You have every right to rebut the points I raised one by one if you wish. It is unfair to imply that I am doubting your test because of some personality trait instead of cold hard fact and logic. Do not expect me to base anything on "faith" as I am an Objectivist and I don't take anything on faith. I see that Ketch has elected to go easy on your test as a matter of professional courtesy but isn't pulling his punches with my tests. That is a double standard, of course. This is nothing new ; I was slammed for measuring water beading, while all the while your test employed the same methodology.
The "cynic" label amounts to name-calling and name-calling is not a valid argument.
To portray me as having downed you and your company when I haven't is unfair to me. Your test got a fair examination, especially because I felt gratitude for your providing it. It would be dishonest to let your generosity alter my opinion of the test.
Doug
" Principles are a lot easier to fight for than to live up to."-Barry Goldwater-

Guys-
It should come as no surprise that the Zaino I applied on 9/27 is still holding up after a week. It rained and the stuff beaded the water wonderfully, although the significance of water beads can be debated--and has been at length on this forum in the past.

The Zaino appears to be optically clear so the stuff doesn't seem to make the paint look darker and richer. Some waxes, such as Banana Magic from AM appear to darken the paint a lot. The Zaino seems to make the paint look bright, smooth, even and to feel slick.

So far, so good.
Doug
"A good example is the best sermon." ( L.L. Inst. Bk )

Gentlemen-
Stand by for a Zaino test update. The Zaino was applied Sept. 27 and now, about 2 1/2 months later, it is beading water like the day I applied it. So far it seems durable. The shine is first-rate too. The product is marketed for show car use and seems to be up to the job.

I would drive the test car to any car show in the country, confident that, since it is a Honda, it would get me there. (LOL)
Doug

" What HAPPENS on the Internet, STAYS on the Internet ".

Doug:

The ingredients in a sealant that cause beading do not necessarily mean it offers protection. Oil, kerosene, solvent, etc will bead water and they do not have any protective qualities.

Shine is relative. Unless you have a Glossmeter you cannot tell if a product is creating the shine or it is the high quality clear coats that are used today?

I have not waxed a car for 2 years and to the naked eye the car looks like it just came off the assembly line.

It is good to have opinions, but please realize they are only that, unsubtantiated opinions not backed by scientific fact.

Regards
Bud Abraham

buda

Bud-
Just in the interest of science, it is my understanding that Kerosene will put a shortlasting protective film on paint. Oil obviously would do so.
The naked eye must be able to detect differences in gloss. Otherwise, why are the show car competitors choosing Griot's, Meguiar's, Zaino and Malm's over that top-seller ( Ahem !) Turtle Wax ?
I suggest that you feel the finish of your unwaxed car. Two years without wax has probably allowed it to roughen and collect bonded contaminants. That is unless you have clayed, cleaned and polished without waxing ( for some reason ). Your reason for not waxing is not given, but it can't be cost-I know where you can order a gallon of Diamond Plus for about $22.95.
Wax retards oxidation and drying of the paint, reduces adhesion of dirt and other contaminants, fills scratches to improve appearance, adds depth and gloss,
and helps prevent scratches during washing and drying. I think you are making a mistake by not waxing your car. If you are planning to enter your car in the Pebble Beach Concours, you might want to try a bottle of Zaino Z-5.

Doug

Doug

The issue is not how I take care of my cars, but how to tell if a car still have protection on it, and it is not by beading water.

Regards
Buda

buda

Doug

The issue is not how I take care of my cars, but how to tell if a car still have protection on it, and it is not by beading water.

Regards
Buda

buda

Hello everyone. Just thought Id report on the diamond plus sealent I recently purchased. I can't yet report on the durability but the gloss is absolutely awesome! I am not just blowing smoke because Bud's company makes the product. Ive used the product twice, one black Mecedes and one black BMW. In both cases the owners were blown away and so was I. I have used Rightlook's cherry wax for a long time because of ease of use and what I thought was a great shine. But now I may never wax again. If the sealent has a better gloss and superior durability, why should I? I would love for you guys to see pics of this car. How do I post pics on the forum, Or can I?

Philip
Manager of detail Depmnt, Hadwin White Buick, GMC
Myrtle Beach, SC
E-mail: philipwsuggs@hotmail.com

doug after months ofreading your posts it seems you spend hours testing dollar store products and than chime in on one of the industries leaders in product development and education.after carefull thought and the idea of reading one more of your reviews ive come to the conclusion your an idiot and should join frank cannas blog.