Waterless Wash

Who is using waterless wash? Why have you chosen to use waterless wash rather than tradtional methods of washing? How is it working out for you? What are the disadvantages you face?

Regards

I use Poorboys spray and wipe if the car is not to dirty.If the car is very dirty you seem to go thru a lot of MF towels.

Have u tried our Waterless Wash 'n Shime? It is totally green and sells now for $16.95 's gallon

Bud Abraham

No I havent! Ill have to give it a try some day .

We use waterless wash to do car details in places where a hose isn't practical - such as while the client is at work.

J&B Detailing
[www.jbdetailing.com]
Columbia, SC 29201

Have any of the mobile detailers or detailers period heard of the Nomad Pressure Washer? Just picked up this handy piece of equipment. It holds 3.5 gallons of water,runs off the accessories plug. I payed $50 for mine. I have a feeling these will go way higher. I searched for one on ebay,and it was $179.

I'm hear to tell you. Try Auto Complete Care's waterless car wash and wax. You won't be disappointed.

Do you have a link to this product

never have before

Car Detailing Charlotte
704-464-0163
[www.cardetailingcharlotte.com]
Charlotte, NC 28246



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2010 03:51AM by Charlotte.

problem with most waterless washes is that they use harsh petro chemical lubricants, pumice abrasive and fillers
Currently using Optimum No Rinse and another nature based semi waterless wash

SVR73

Our WATERLESS WASH 'n SHINE does not use "harsh" petro chemical lubricants, we use deLimonene the "natural" solvent obtained from orange peels. It has no abrasives in it.

What do you mean, "fillers."

Regards
Bud Abraham

the older systems like no wet used clay to fill and pumice to abrasively clean
so when you applied it each time, it removed a tiny tiny amount of paint, filled in the marks it may of put in and would remove any wax or sealant, making it impossible to use on sealed, coated or waxed paintwork

trust me I've had no wet, FW1 and dri wash n guard out to my shop before and I cant stand there products one bit.

do an IPA wipedown and all the marks there products filled just come straight back out. biggest problem is removal of sealants if I used there waterless wash

good to know your waterless uses citrus extract
One question - will the dilimonene solvent weaken most sealants and remove them?
I use more basic sealants (polymers) on cheaper services.

DetailXPerts around Michigan and Florida uses steam cleaning for their car wash. With waterless, I guess they use some sot of chemicals for the cleaning. One of the reasons water is being limited for car wash is because of pollution and maybe global warming. Well, usually when one uses soap, the soap makes the water hard and thereby polluted and would need to be treated in a wastewater facility. Using another chemical instead of soap would probably have the same effect to the environment. Using steam cleaning might be the best way. It makes use of the universal solvent --in small amount-- plus no soap. Professional Detailing Services are known for being pricey but DetailXPerts would be the middle man, not too costly, not too low.

Steam for cleaning is overrated.

You still have to use a towel to wipe off dirt after steaming car so what good is the steam?

With waterless wash you have an "environmentally friendly" chemical that does not bother the environment in any way. Our product uses diLimonene which is the cleaning solvent that comes from the peels of oranges.

It is cheaper to use a chemical that sells for a few dollars a gallon to clean the car than a $4,000 to $5,000 machine to do the same thing. And the chemical does not need to be maintained or does it breakdown as the steamers do.

By the way, chemical does not make water hard. Minerals in the water make the water hard. If you use chemicals in hardwater they will not be effective because the minerals in the water trick the chemical into thinking that the minerals are the dirt you are trying to remove and the cleaning chemicals attach to the minerals rather than the dirt making them less effective.

To eliminate this action formulators put "chelating agents" in the a chemical that will be used in hard water areas which attach to the minerals in the hard water thereby allowing the cleaning agents in the chemical to rightfully go after the soil.

Waterless wash all the way.

Hi Bud,

That still doesn't address the issue of the grit contact with the paint as you wipe away the suface soiling. In my limited experience with waterless, it causes more surface haze than when you power-wash, pre-soak, rinse, mitt & rinse (pre-soak being the requirement for very dirty cars).

If you sell at $16.95 what does it work out at per average vehicle? I understand that it's a different process than regular washing.

Can you also elaborate on what you said regarding hard water areas? Its a major headache for me right now and am wondering if there are ways around it, other than the purchase of a filtration and softening treatment system.

Thanks in advance.

Do not know about other waterless wash products, which I find are like "water." But our product is a "lotion" with sufficient lubricants in it so that the grit on the vehicle is encapsulated in the chemical and does not scratch the vehicle.

It is amazing, logic would tell you that the grit should scratch the car, but I have a black sedan with a metallic paint and I tested our product on it at least 10 times and never experienced the scratching you suggest.

My experience with the steamers is that they do not remove the grit and it is still there when you go to wipe off the dirt and grit. At best the steam just softens the oily oil. The steamer is NOT like a pressure washer that blasts the surface dirt off the car leaving the oily soil to remove with a towel.

You can get by with 6 to 8 ounces per car to clean. At $16.95 a gallon that is less than $0.90 per car cost

Elaborate on hard water? In the case of using a steamer and/or an extractor (for example) the suggestion of all manufacturers is to use treated water in the machines to prevent mineral buildup and damage.

Even chemical companies suggest you use treated water for water-based, diluted chemicals for best results, ie - engine degreasers; carpet shampoos; wheel cleaners; all purpose cleaners; glass cleaners.

Chelating agents are OK, but if you have hard water as in Nevada or Utah, for example, best to either have a RO system for your water as most car wash operations there have, or buy treated water.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Thanks Bud. I wasn't sure what the inference was with the hard water - I see now that it was relative to the Steamers.

Appreciate the response.

Hard water is a problem for:

Automatic carwashes
Self service carwashes
Hand washes
Mobile washes
Extractors
Vapor Steamers
Steam Irons
Diluting water-based chemicals

Seems to me that if you are in an area with hard water you either have to treat it to purify it or buy treated water.

Regards
Bud abraham

Agreed. Ionised or RO Water is what to use in steamers and in wash water.

Yep, I need to invest in a treatment and filtration system. Otherwise clients will not return. Simple as!

Unless I go waterless... hmmm.

Hard to get along without water. Waterless wash is good for some things, but not all.

To properly treat hard water you need a reverse osmosis system. Initially costly but cheaper in the long run.

Dionzers are less expensive to purchase, not as good a system, and much more costly to operate.

Quote
buda
Steam for cleaning is overrated.

You still have to use a towel to wipe off dirt after steaming car so what good is the steam?

With waterless wash you have an "environmentally friendly" chemical that does not bother the environment in any way. Our product uses diLimonene which is the cleaning solvent that comes from the peels of oranges.

It is cheaper to use a chemical that sells for a few dollars a gallon to clean the car than a $4,000 to $5,000 machine to do the same thing. And the chemical does not need to be maintained or does it breakdown as the steamers do.

By the way, chemical does not make water hard. Minerals in the water make the water hard. If you use chemicals in hardwater they will not be effective because the minerals in the water trick the chemical into thinking that the minerals are the dirt you are trying to remove and the cleaning chemicals attach to the minerals rather than the dirt making them less effective.

To eliminate this action formulators put "chelating agents" in the a chemical that will be used in hard water areas which attach to the minerals in the hard water thereby allowing the cleaning agents in the chemical to rightfully go after the soil.

Waterless wash all the way.

I agree that chemicals don't make a water hard. It is Ca ion and Mg ion that makes it hard. Usually, soaps react with these ions and acts as surfactants in the water. This is undesirable as organic compounds in the water will not undergo degradation. Chemicals might still cause pollution as when it mixes to water --in easier terms-- that makes the water not potable. Therefore it would go to our wastewater facility still. Wastewaters are following different laws with regards to its BOD (Biological Oxygen Demand) and/or COD (Chemical Oxygen Demand). Now if the you have more chemicals in the water demanding for oxygen, this will inhibit life in the waters. So it would need water treatment.

As for using treated water for your car washes, when you're using soap in washing your cars --what happens is the hardness in water (Ca ion and Mg ion) attaches to the anion in the soap. That's why, when washing clothes and you're using hardwater to wash your clothes, it will form residues causing white clothes to be brown... lol!!! ^^ or that's what they call "scum." It's a white precipitate. The usual test for hardwater is the soap test. If you put soap in both a hardwater and a treated water, and stir it vigorously, you'll see that the soap in the hardwater will not produce more foam than the one on treated water. A water, before it is distributed to homes are already pre-treated, so I bet there's no need for an RO system, unless you're planning to sell the water as drinking water. Hardwater are usually coming from those drawn from wells or deep water pumps. I would suggest for you to either use a soap that will not precipitate with Ca ion and Mg ion. I forgot about the list I have of those anions but lemme check later.

My facility is outside of the city so its not treated water as such. It is hard indeed. Car detergent is part of the issue, but the main problem is white residue left on the cars from the final rinse off. Its ugly and of course it means that the car is still basically dirty.

If there was any other way around it other than purchasing a treatment system, I would love to hear it. Somebody mentioned using powerful magnets attached to the pipes but I don't know how effective that would be in my situation.

If you have no other alternative then work hard to get the car dried off before the water dries.

You could also have a small quantity of treated water and final rinse and hand dry using that. Spot-Free Rinse it is called

It makes sense, Marnie. I was thinking about doing that since running a fully treated wash would be a more expensive business model. Thanks for that.