So where does the new car look go?

What is the difference between the gloss of a brand new car and the gloss of a car that has been polished and finished to a perfectly smooth and clear surface.

Do you know what I mean? There is just that difference that identifies a new car. Is it oils or "plasticizer" or something that gets lost after a few months of driving?

Sure the car still look great but you can never get that same new gloss back. I don't care who detailed the car either and how much they charge, its never the same!

What about show cars?

Gloss or reflective shine is a result of the smoothness of the finish. The smoother the finish the more gloss.

That is what I have been told by the automotive paint company.

That is why wet sanding creates a high shine.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Quote:

What is the difference between the gloss of a brand new car and the gloss of a car that has been polished and finished to a perfectly smooth and clear surface.


My answer: The car that has been polished has less clear coat.

There is a point to were a smooth surface produces a shine level, but anything
more than that causes damage IMO.

Most auto manufacturers and automotive paint companies say that you should not remove more than 1/2 mil of clear when buffing. Ford even goes so far to say no more than 1/3 of a mil. (mil is 1/1000th of an inch). A plastic garbage bag is .95 of a mil.

More than that will degrade the clear coat.

To wet-sand a factory clear-coat (1.5 to max. 2.0 mils) should never be done.

In the aftermarket, when a automotive paint shop wet/dry-sands after painting it is ok because they are taught to spray at least 2.5 to 3.0 mils of clear, knowing they are going to sand.

Hope this helps your understanding.

Regards
Bud Abraham

No its not down to smoothness alone. There is definitely something different about new car paint. It must be down to the paint structure as there is a different gloss from it.

Trust me, I do sanding, polishing, correcting and coating and I understand what you are talking about. Smoothness does reveal a terrific gloss, no argument there.

What does UV light do to paint, exactly? Anybody know? I'd love to check this with a paint company.

Speaking with my contacts at Akzo-Sikkens what they had to say is the following:

a. There are differences between paints. However, the big 5: BASF: Sherwin-Williams; Dupont; Azko-Nobel all make good paints.

b. That said, the European paints have some advantages over US paints such as color matching; documentation, etc. Which indirectly effect gloss.

c. What has a HUGE effect on gloss is application, for example, the smoothness not only of the clear, but also the base coat too.

d. The painter is another key factor in application. You can give a "good" painter the same 5 paints and he can make them all shine. Whereas a poor painter will come up with bad results.

e. There is also a difference between OEM paint and aftermarket paint in terms of application since the OEM paints are applied robotically vs by hand in the aftermarket.

f. As well there are differences between car manufacturers. Compare the paint finish on a BMW vs a Lexus you will find that the Lexus is much smoother and probably more glossy than the BMW.

So to try and come up with a single, simple answer for paint gloss or smoothness is not really possible, in my opinion.

UV BLOCKERS

Today's clear coats do contain UV blocking resins to help preserve the paint.

There is a myth floating around the industry that these UV blockers are in the top half of the clear which is not true. They are mix throughout the clear and when you over-buff a clear you simply are removing more of the UV blockers which will effect the longevity of the paint.

Hope that helps.

Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

Question:
What does UV light do to paint, exactly? Anybody know? I'd love to check this with a paint company.


Answer:

URETHANE CLEAR-COATS:

Urethane Clear-coats are almost a different topic from pigmented urethanes and much of that is due to UV blocking. UV rays damage and fade coatings. It yellows and damages epoxies. One of the best blockers of UV rays is pigmented paint. The pigments block the UV, limiting their affect to the very surface only. Clear coatings, of course, have no pigments to block UV, hence, while they add additional gloss and ‘depth’ to a fine paint job, they are generally considered to be performance inferior to the pigment coatings they commonly go over.

There are UV blockers that can be added to clear 2-part urethanes, but surprisingly a very minimal ‘UV Package” is generally added to these clear urethanes (I’ve heard that automobile Clear-coats are an exception). The additives are expensive (about $8 per gallon) and since most clear urethanes are applied over pigmented urethanes the manufacturers tend to let the pigments in the bottom coating perform the UV blocking.

Source:

Paul Oman, MS, MBA - Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc.

[www.epoxyproducts.com]

I saw this video of a shop here in Naples, Fl that shows clearly were the new look goes.

[www.youtube.com]

They make this statement:

Using only the best products and equipment our details can improve the condition of any vehicle while also prolonging the life of your car's paintwork and preventing the occurrence of rust or other damage.

I find this statement makes no sense considering the wet sanding step and the
the hard compounding step. I really do not see how these two steps are prolonging the life of the paint work, but I do see how it is removing the clear coat.

Also, wax will not prevent rust, or prevent any real damage no matter how long you leave it to harden .

Bill

Regarding your commentary on urethanes, I would respond that your comments assume that automotive color coats are urethane, meaning they could be used without clear-coats, which in the case of aftermarket/refinish products, used in auto body paint shops is not true.

Aftermarket/Refinish in order to match 90+% of all cars on the road today, utilize a base-coat product for the color that has excellent light fastness (color pigment that has good fade resistant), but it must be covered with a clear-coat for durability and gloss.

Durability meaning the protection from the elements such as sun (UV rays); rain bird droppings insect residue, rocks, etc. Without this clear-coat, the base-coat would degrade because the base-coat by itself provides little or no durability.

Clear-coats do contain UV protection and must be applied at a minimum dry film thickness (DFT) of 2 mils for any long term durability. Failure to apply proper DFT of clear-coat or removing too much DFT by sanding or aggressive buffing lowers the integrity of the clear-coat.

Hope this helps your understanding.

Damage caused by UV radiaition

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ultra violet Radiation is known to contribute to the chemical modification of exposed paint surfaces resulting in loss of gloss, colour change, chalking, flaking and eventually destruction of the clear coat paint film by oxidation. Ultra violet protection is a sacrificial / renewable component; this is due to the UV protection layer (stabilizers) being degraded by exposure to the elements (sun, sand, road or sea salt, and etc) it is also water miscible, so it is imperative that you renew it and needs to be re-applied on a regular basis (dependent upon location climatic condition)

There is no such thing as a permanent UV stabilizer, it a matter of physics, not chemistry. Ultra violet protection is a sacrificial and necessarily renewable protection. Acrylic polymers and polyurethane polymer are slow to absorb UV light and accordingly somewhat resistant to photo degradation.

Many natural and synthetic materials are attacked by ultra-violet radiation and products made using these materials may crack or disintegrate. This problem is known as ultra violet degradation, and is a common problem in products exposed to sunlight.

1. UV-A radiation dries out the binder system causing structural failure; it will dry the resin in paint; leading to oxidation. A paint surface will often show cracking as the resin binder dries out the paint draws up on itself forming ‘crow’s feet’. It will also dry out the oils and plasticizers in vinyl and other materials and may lead to structural damage (this is especially relevant to open top convertibles)

2. UV-B radiation exposure leads to gloss and colour instability (photosynthesis or photo-oxidation) and surface fading stains. But before UV light can cause harm, it must first be absorbed. If it is not turned into heat or transferred to a nearby stabilizer molecule called a quencher, it breaks weak chemical bonds. This is the beginning of UV damage. Some materials absorb UV radiation more readily than other materials. Materials that readily absorb (UV- radiation are quickly damaged...rubber, vinyls, gel coat fibreglass, and many other plastics.

When radiation is absorbed, it starts to break (cleave) weak chemical bonds, which leads to photochemical degradation (bleaching, (fading), discoloration, chalking, brittleness and cracking) all indications of UV deterioration. The bond cleavages resulting from UV absorption cause the formation of “radicals.” Each free radical can trigger a chain of reactions (in the presence of air), leading to more bond cleavages and destruction. These oxidising chain reactions require no further UV exposure, just the presence of air

The clear coat provides gloss plus physical protection from the elements, including ultraviolet (UV) radiation, which is in the upper 1.0 – 1. 25µ layer of the clear coat paint.. Removing more that 12.5µ (0.5 mil) of clear coat will precipitate premature paint film failure as the ultra violet (UV) protection percolates to the top of the clear coat, there is ultra violet (UV) protection all the way through the paint, but the majority of it migrates to the top of the clear coat along with the thinner solvents and particles.

Therefore removing clear coat ultra violet protection is not a linear process; by removing a small percentage of the clear coat paint tends to remove a larger percentage of UV inhibitors. So once you remove too much clear coat you'll have no paint UV protection other than what you apply with a LSP
__________________
~ Providing unbiased advice that Professional and Enthusiast Detailer’s Trust ~ Blog – [togwt1980.blogspot.com]


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Jun 6th, 2011, 05:06 AM #2

Bud & Bill, Thanks for your input here. I like your replies.

Many thanks.

New cars do not look their best. They can be made better than new.
Its done by purifying the paint. and thickening it with a glass or quartz membrane which amplifies the colour coats and clear coat underneath it.

One can also make new paint better by buffing the paint slightly as the very top 5 to 10 microns of the clear coat on the Australian cars is basically rubbish stripping that off makes it better

Removing the orange peel without sanding helps as well in terms of clarity, depth and colour shade intensity on reds, blacks etc

Buffing any clear coat off and UV radiation does effect paint as does simply time.
Time is a paints enemy. One can detail it without cutting the paint but eventually it may still be really shiny and perhaps dead flat with no peel with enough coats of the glass but time takes its toll. yes its still shiny but its not fresh paint.

I find new cars do not look their best. to me they look clean but naked and just like the cars interior rubber seals, leather, vinyl and plastic materials, all need treatment to make them supple, black and soft, not dry and grey as they are from factory

purifying paint with certain products is what makes all the difference to a new cars paint. Its far from pure after it leaves the factory, comes over by ship and stays at the dealership for a while before being sold

aftermarket paints are where it's at. Alot of OEM stuff is crap. Lexus is great though. Very crisp

Guys on the You Tube Video need to learn that compounds are obsolete and rotaries are not needed to correct everything on a cars paint finish now

Surbuf and Single polish system with an RO or DA and bingo, same result, no marring.

Good to see you here Bud. One more thing that effects paint finishes
Windy days blowing australian soil across a car's finish over a period of many years

If your car is dusty or dirty and your driving at 70 miles an hour and its a windy day, the finish is going to be effected. this over a long period is what also causes the paint to not have the look that fresh paint does.
as does heavy rain (pitting) and many other factors