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Information from previous posts

Posted by Jim Hammill 
Information from previous posts
October 06, 2003 02:25AM
<HTML>Some of you asked for information that I had collected from previous posts, being a lazy S.O.B today, rather than e-mail it out, I am just going to repost it here . I didnt get the names of all the people who wrote this stuff, none of it is from me, just stuff I saved from older posts, so the credit goes to the original authors, whoever they may be.

I think this is one of Buds (anyone heard from Bud recently, havent seen any posts from him)

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Remember, detailing chemicals are truly a commodity. If you buy like products from anyone of the legitimate detail chemical manufacuturers like Auto Magic; Car Brite; Pro; Production; Ardex; P&S; Granitize; Mark V; DETAIL PLUS you will get basically the same product.

The problem is the confusion of what is what because they all have different names for the same products.

What you need to learn is the chemistry of the products you use then you will know whose products are comparable to whose and what they do.

There are really not too many different chemicals from which to choose:

CLEANERS:

Car Wash Shampoos
All Purpose Cleaners, including supposedly citrus cleaners. These have no caustics or are not high alkaline
Engine Degreasers - have caustics and are high alkaline
Wheel Cleaners - acid-based which you should not use they are too dangerous to your health and water-based that are high alkaline
White Wall Cleaners - caustic and high alkaline
Carpet & Upholstery Shampoos - lo pH, no caustics; brighteners and softeners
Vinyl Cleaners - lo pH no caustics
Leather Cleaners - many different types very mild
Glass Cleaners - concentrates and ready to use which is best is up to you.
Stain Removers - best to have a selection for different stains

COMPOUNDS

600 grit - very heavy
800 grit - heavy
1200 grit - medium heavy
1500 grit - medium light
2000 grit - light
Micro-Fine

For clear coats in normal detailing situations you need only light and micro fine

SWIRL REMOVERS

There are eliminators and fillers, you really want an eliminator. They can have silicones and/or waxes in them.

POLISHES

Hard to tell what a company means by this. We like to have a single product to remove swirls and/or polish. For example, a paint with no problems but you want to smooth it out and give a better shine before waxing.

GLAZES

Companies misuse this term to refer to polishes; swirl removers or even waxes and sealants. Technically a glaze is really a swirl remover/polish formulated for a body shop. This means it has no silicones or waxes in it as you cannot seal a new paint for 60 days to allow all solvent to evaporate. If you do it can cause "solvent popping" which will damage the paint.

WAXES

Can be made from carnuaba; synthetic carnuaba (which is more durable) beeswax; monton. Good, but have very little durability maybe 30 to 45 days. Oily and thick.

Companies offer many different types which is just based on what people want to pay. A professional detailer should use only the best one of the line. No difference between pastes; cremes or liquids. Just a matter of less or more water. Some waxes will contain amino-functional silicones for more durability but most contain only silicone fluids.

By the way a wax can contain 100% carnuaba wax, but that does not mean it is 100% carnuaba wax. This is misleading. The best wax might contain 20% wax, more than that makes it too hard to use.

PAINT SEALANTS

An area where, as we have seen lately on the forum, a number of companies make wild claims about their product. Basically good sealants are all the same. They contain amino-functional silicones; some do contain wax plus solvent; water; oil; color and even fragrance. What types and the quanity of the ingredients determines how shiny and how durable a sealant will be. They are not all the same, but unfortunately a detailer has no way of knowing if a sealant is durable. You can visualize shine, no question.

Key is not to pay too much for a sealant. A sealant is really just an evolution of wax technology, but chemical companies have found a way to charge users more money for an "alledgely better" product. Yes, it is but not from $18.95 a gallon for carnuaba wax to $45 a quart, or more for the paint sealant.

That is why I am having a laboratory conduct an independent test for durability and reflective shine. This will be done in about 30 to 45 days.

DRESSINGS

Made from silicones, either water based or solvent based.

Water based comes from a silicone emulsion that the formulator mixes with water and some secondary ingredients like anti-static agents and UV blockers. Gelling agents do nothing for the product but give one the impression it is better because it is thicker. Here you get what you pay for. The less water the more expensive, the more water the less expensive.

You can affect shine by the amount of water to get a high shine or a stain finish.

Solvent based come from solvent silicone and is mixed the same way as water based, except they typically use mineral spirits to thin it. Should not be used in or on a car. Why. Solvent breaks down and expands rubber and on tires will fling off an cause permanent staining of paint plastic parts on lower areas of cars. The solvent if used on an engine can cause a flash fire.

LEATHER CONDITIONERS

Made from beeswax; mink oil and other natural oils to replace oils lost from evaporation. No magic, just chemistry.

TAR AND GREASE REMOVERS

Nothing more than some type of cleaning solvent. There are strengths, of course, some like the solvents used to clean auto parts and some used to thin asphalt. This is what you should use to remove tar from the car, it is faster than that used for parts. Should not cost you too much to purchase.

FRAGRANCES

Can be either water-based or oil based. The latter will last the longest and are more expensive than water based. Available in a number of scents.

BIOLOGICAL ODOR ELIMINATORS

These products have no smell and on contact destroy the bacteria that causes odor. If it has a smell I would be suspicious of it being an odor eliminator.

This should give you a basic knowledge of the chemicals you might be using or purchashing.

There is more available if you want to contact me directly, it is about education and not selling.

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Okay guys, time for a little chemistry. Here goes:

Polymers are by definition any substance natural or synthetic that are made up of monomers covalently bonded together. They can be a single monomer like styrene (hence when bonded polystyrene) or mixed monomers like protein or DNA.

Acrylic acid or acrylonitrile is one type of monomer, thus when they bond to each other you get acrylic, a type of plastic. Other popular synthetic polymers you hear about a lot are: Nylon, Teflon, Orlon, PVC (polyvinylchloride), latex, Kevlar, etc. etc.

To over simplify, when you apply a sealant to the paint you apply monomers in a solvent system. Polymerization starts with an intiating event like contact with the paint molecules forming a thin sheet of plastic on the car (hence the "plastic sterile" appearance of sealants!) kind of like frying an egg in an old steel pan. If you don't clean and prep paint properly, inert chemicals like oils and silicones will prevent proper polymerization and sticking to the paint, like using oil or pam or Teflon pan when frying your egg.

Waxes are esters and do not covalently bond together. They "stick" to each other and can be separated fairly easy. That is why waxes don't last as long. Also polymer require having active ends that usually have a charge. Charge to charge interaction (like sodium and chloride binding to make salt) is much stronger than non-polar bonds in wax, another reason why waxes just don't last as long. However, waxes look better and that is why some sealants actually have carnuba in them.

So are all sealants equal? No. To be called acrylic it must have the same chemical structure, in that regard Bud is correct. However it's never that simple. A perfect world chemical reaction would be A+B=C. In the real world, you would still have (A) leftover, (cool smiley leftover and you might need a solvent or catalyst to get the reaction to start. Hope I'm not getting too crazy here. Thus you have to try and separate out your desired product (C). Chem companies spend millions researching how to do this "perfectly". This is only one step of a multistep reaction to make the final product so you can imagine all the extra gunk in the brew when you are done. Lastly you have to find a way to "deliver" the product. Good luck if your molecule were a gas let's say or a solid or evaporated or reacted with air or water and became crap. Thus you have to use solvents, preservatives, etc. in order to get your chemical on a car and make it usable once it gets there. Ugh!

That is why companies like 3M make the products and everyone copies it. Huge companies like 3M have the research money to learn these things. HOWEVER, you can't just copy it straight out so if you are some little dinky company you must change the process enough to make knock off product and keep 3M's lawyers from smelling blood....
Not to say this means the smaller company's products are total crap, sometimes the modifications make the product better or easier to use.

Wow, I hope all this babbling makes sense. I'd be happy to try to clarify if I've confused anyone.
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This is an article I found on the net ..

Say Goodbye to Swirl Marks
Using the right technique can cut down on unsightly "spider webs"
By Art Riddle

How often has a vehicle left a detail shop with that beautiful mirror-like finish only to return in a week with swirl marks? Among the various exterior detailing or reconditioning problems, a common challenge to almost all detailers is unsightly swirl marks on painted surfaces. There are temporary solutions, but how can you eliminate them? Better yet, how can they be prevented? Before we look at the answers to these problems, let's first define what swirl marks are and look at their various causes.

Because of contrast and reflectivity, dark-colored vehicles exhibit swirl marks more readily than light colors--yet these painted surface imperfections can be the same. There are a couple of different types of swirl marks. First, what is commonly referred to as "spider webbing" is a condition characterized by small, shallow scratches. These are usually caused by tiny abrasive dust and dirt particles that do not pre-rinse off when the vehicle is washed by hand or machine, which are then moved along the surface of the paint. The results are hairline scratches. Even when a vehicle is driven, some of these airborne particles can hit portions of the painted surfaces, leaving tiny scratches.

Present paint-coating technology, chemistry or mechanical washing cannot completely prevent this problem. However, some of the newer automotive paint coatings are more scratch resistant, but recent advances in chemical and mechanical system technology have helped in minimizing this problem.

Secondly, excessive detail product or chemical residues such as oils, silicones or waxes can cause superficial swirl marks. These residues remain on the paint surfaces sometimes in patterns left by hand-application motion or mechanical buffers. The oily residues usually have not had proper "drying" time before attempting to wipe off the excess; therefore it streaks and smears. In many cases when wax products are applied on hot surfaces, solvents can evaporate too quickly and leave residues that are difficult to remove.

The most common and the most severe swirl mark conditions are primarily caused by high speed buffing with wool pads. These "C-swirls" are named for the C-shaped pattern that is created. C-swirls are also created by

heavy abrasion compounds
pressure or friction of buffing application
angle of buffing application
speed and direction of buffing application.
Synthetic fiber or wool blend buffing pads can help reduce friction and therefore lessen the severity of C-swirls but may still leave some marks that need to be removed.

Each of these factors determines the severity of depth, width and length of these patterned scratches as well as the quantity. In any case, these swirl marks or patterned scratches are unsightly and counterproductive. While C-swirls are sometimes an unavoidable result of reconditioning a vehicle, especially when removing heavy scratches or acid rain damage, minimizing the friction created by the buffing process and training employees on proper use of high-speed buffers can reduce swirl removal time.

Use the right equipment
Removing swirl marks requires either a high-speed or heavy-duty orbital buffer, a foam cutting pad or a foam cutting bonnet, and a medium or light grade (fine particle) compound product. Light-duty orbital and dual action (DA) buffers are fine for waxing or light polishing but they are not as effective for compounding or severe swirl removal. The usual precautions regarding paint type and depth should be taken into consideration.

To remove spider webbing, first wash the vehicle to remove any surface soil. In some cases, applying a clay type process to the painted surface to remove stubborn particles may be required. A heavy-duty orbital works well for this condition or for a high-speed buffer, use a slower speed (1200-1800 RPMs). Using either buffer, move the buffer slowly and allow it to work the spider webbing scratches smooth.

To remove excessive residues of polishes or other products from painted surfaces, make sure that the product used has had adequate time to dry or haze before attempting to remove. Temperature and humidity play a large role in determining when a specific product is cured. If it is an oily substance, use a terry towel to help absorb excessive residues when removing. If it is excessive wax that has already hardened, re-apply a light coat on the troubled areas and remove as soon as possible. One way to easily prevent conditions of either too oily or too excessive wax is to apply less product. Many of us tend to use more product than is necessary, which causes more work than we need to do.

C-swirl damage is treated similarly to spider web swirl removal. When using a high-speed polisher, again, use a foam-cutting pad and a medium grade (fine particle) compound and slower buffing RPMs 1200-1800. A common mistake when using this popular method is that many technicians move the buffer too fast and try to buff too large of an area at once. Therefore, it does not allow the equipment and chemistry to do their respective jobs efficiently. Select a two-foot square area to be buffed and slow down the movement of the buffer, overlapping each buffing path. Slow, methodical buffing in a checkerboard fashion will assist you by evenly cross cutting to efficiently remove swirls.

The heavy-duty orbital is another excellent tool and method for removing swirl marks. Using a foam cutting bonnet allows a high-quality medium grade compound to be very effective in eliminating swirl marks and other medium to light scratches. Again, move the buffer slowly in a checkerboard fashion, achieving an even cross cut and allowing the buffer and chemistry to do the work. These machines operate in a random motion; therefore, they don't leave a patterned swirl mark. Occasionally, dust or an abrasive particle can get caught between the bonnet and the paint surface while buffing, resulting in a small fishhook shaped scratch. These types of faint scratches are normally infrequent and are generally undetectable.

Use caution in selecting a product to remove swirl marks. Some so-called "swirl remover" products only fill in these light scratches with clear materials that produce an illusion that the swirl is gone. These types of products produce a good shine and are okay as long as they are not expected to last. Once washing or sometimes even a good rain removes these materials, the swirl marks reappear. If unsure whether the product used is filling in or actually removing the swirl, wipe a small area with a safe body solvent after the product has been applied. This will remove any fill-in materials and indicate if the swirls reappear.

While some customers actually expect subtle swirl marks as evidence that their vehicles have been buffed, once they see a truly finished, glass-smooth shine, they'll recognize your skill and ability and will no doubt be back for repeat services. Proper buffing technique, training, practice and product knowledge will help eliminate our industry's age-old problem of swirl marks.

Art Riddle is a 20-year veteran of the detail industry and is currently Detail Team Director for the Vehicle Care Division of Ecolab, Inc in Tucson, AZ
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If you are intrested in some really good articles, go to moderncarcare.com and click on the detailing link, there are som excellent details there .

Will post again shortly with other links for some good reference points.

Jim.</HTML>
Re: Information from previous posts
October 06, 2003 11:49AM
<HTML>JIm, good stuff. Thanks for posting. GO CUBS! GARY</HTML>
Re: Information from previous posts
October 07, 2003 02:11AM
<HTML>Jim, thanks. Also, I noticed how you offered credit to the orignal authors. Nice job.</HTML>
Re: Information from previous posts
October 07, 2003 04:41AM
<HTML>Great info, Jim!! Thanks for passing that along. Very nicely done, indeed!!

Rod</HTML>
Re: Information from previous posts
October 10, 2003 01:55AM
<HTML>Wow I'm flattered you chose my little chemistry babble as important enough to repost!</HTML>
Re: Information from previous posts
October 10, 2003 02:22AM
<HTML>Hey Robert, thank you ! I am sorry I didnt get to quote you as the source of that great writing, I usually save all the good stuff in a word document , and on this occasion I forgot to include you name , sorry !

Jim.</HTML>
Re: Information from previous posts
October 10, 2003 04:23AM
<HTML>Glad to see someone found it useful and by all means you're welcome!
I'm not worried about credit. If I did, I'd publish it winking smiley</HTML>
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