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LET'S TALK EXTRACTORS
Posted by Jerry Slater
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LET'S TALK EXTRACTORS October 14, 2003 12:40AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 137 |
<HTML>OK, I've gone back though all the threads through this past year and have read up on extractors, but I just can't find any specifics as to what all these terms mean. I currently use a Bissel Big Green Machine. That said, I don't have much trust in it. I have never tried a proffesional extractor before and am interested in specifics. The BGCM, seems to always fall apart ( the hand held section) when your in very awkard position. Also, this machine is filled by hot tap water mixed with solution. So..... here are my questions.
1.What is lift and how much do you need?
2. How much lift do you think this BGCM has? (3 horse)
3. Does it make a difference in using heated or non heated water?
4. If hot water is best, what temp?
5.Does it make a difference as to how much pressure you "shoot" into the carpet?
I'm trying to look for ways to save time on my interior detail. I think I could spend forever on some carpets and never be satisfied with the results. When the BGCM is sucking the water out, it seems to always be dirty, no matter how many times I go over the area.
6. I'm currently spending about 2 hours just on extraction. Howlong does this procedure take a professional? I know I am losing money
I am not big time yet, but I want to buy the best equipment for my business I can afford. I plan on being stationary, not mobile.
It's hard for me to believe they get $1000 plus for some of these machines.</HTML>
1.What is lift and how much do you need?
2. How much lift do you think this BGCM has? (3 horse)
3. Does it make a difference in using heated or non heated water?
4. If hot water is best, what temp?
5.Does it make a difference as to how much pressure you "shoot" into the carpet?
I'm trying to look for ways to save time on my interior detail. I think I could spend forever on some carpets and never be satisfied with the results. When the BGCM is sucking the water out, it seems to always be dirty, no matter how many times I go over the area.
6. I'm currently spending about 2 hours just on extraction. Howlong does this procedure take a professional? I know I am losing money
I am not big time yet, but I want to buy the best equipment for my business I can afford. I plan on being stationary, not mobile.
It's hard for me to believe they get $1000 plus for some of these machines.</HTML>
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Re: LET'S TALK EXTRACTORS October 14, 2003 01:21AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
<HTML>Hye Jerry ..there is an excellent article at moderncarcare.com in the archives , you can see it at <a href="[www.moderncarcare.com] and Extractors</a> . About half way through the article it gives you all the information you will need about selecting an extractor.
Yes they are expensive, ours is a Thermax and it cost a bucket load of money, but this machine is sometimes running seven or eight hours a day , you need something that is durable and can live with the constant use. As long you keep the machine maintained it will last for years. In the two years that we have had ours we have never had a single problem, and it gets some serious heavy duty use . So while you may pay well over a thousand dollars, you have a piece of equipment that will last for years.
Jim.</HTML>
Yes they are expensive, ours is a Thermax and it cost a bucket load of money, but this machine is sometimes running seven or eight hours a day , you need something that is durable and can live with the constant use. As long you keep the machine maintained it will last for years. In the two years that we have had ours we have never had a single problem, and it gets some serious heavy duty use . So while you may pay well over a thousand dollars, you have a piece of equipment that will last for years.
Jim.</HTML>
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Re: LET'S TALK EXTRACTORS October 14, 2003 01:53AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
<HTML>Jerry,
I did a little research here before I bought and will gladly share what I learned. I will NOT be able to cover all of your points but shoot at a few of em;
First, I assume you read my post about the durrmaid so I will not recover that. However, Bud wrote that he would match or beat the price I paid. I looked at Buds website for an extractor and there was none in my price range so I didn't think about asking him. Learn from my mistake. Once you have decided on a machine, call Bud.
Next, I looked in my area for used machines and saw a few but since I am mobile, I needed a small one and these were all too big. However, there were some way affordable ones.
Vacuum suction is measured in "lift" The more lift, in theory, the higher the machine will pull water up the tube. There is a little dial used to determine this. A machine can have some serious horses but crap lift. Lift is what gets your dirty water out ( along with holding it right).
My unit has a water heater in the tank which heats the water to about 200 F. Much more and the water would boil. However, I do not have an in-line heater to keep the water as hot so the water in the line between the machine and the carpet will cool. Cooler water does not clean as well as hot water (surface tension I think) some machines have in line heaters only. Not sure how warm water can get in the short time it spends in the line. No experience there.
My heater can only be replaced ny another unit for this machine. Some machine have hot water heater units you can buy at Home Depot so if yours burns out, hop in the car, spend a few bucks and your back in business. Not mine.
My unit has a plastic tool. It is breakable. A metal one is avail but I can't see through metal and do not know when to move on. I wait until the water is clear before going on.
My unit comes with ten foot of hose that I can stand on and it will not crush. Some units have 16 to 20 feet, some units have hoses you can crush. Hell, some you can do origami with.
When I start to extract, my unit no longer heats water. The water starts to cool right out of the gate.
There are lots of little gadgets one can get on an extractor lack a plug in for your radio, a vanity mirror, remote door locks and a bass canon ( not really)
I wanted every single thing on mine I could get.......OR I wanted one that would fit in the space I had left. it simply shoots hot water in and sucks it out. No bell or whistles. I am very happy with it for what it does. It was also 539 bucks!
Not sure where you are but you may want to call your janitorial supply and ask for a used one. I am told this time of year they are hard to find becuase everyone is cleaning just before holidays....good luck</HTML>
I did a little research here before I bought and will gladly share what I learned. I will NOT be able to cover all of your points but shoot at a few of em;
First, I assume you read my post about the durrmaid so I will not recover that. However, Bud wrote that he would match or beat the price I paid. I looked at Buds website for an extractor and there was none in my price range so I didn't think about asking him. Learn from my mistake. Once you have decided on a machine, call Bud.
Next, I looked in my area for used machines and saw a few but since I am mobile, I needed a small one and these were all too big. However, there were some way affordable ones.
Vacuum suction is measured in "lift" The more lift, in theory, the higher the machine will pull water up the tube. There is a little dial used to determine this. A machine can have some serious horses but crap lift. Lift is what gets your dirty water out ( along with holding it right).
My unit has a water heater in the tank which heats the water to about 200 F. Much more and the water would boil. However, I do not have an in-line heater to keep the water as hot so the water in the line between the machine and the carpet will cool. Cooler water does not clean as well as hot water (surface tension I think) some machines have in line heaters only. Not sure how warm water can get in the short time it spends in the line. No experience there.
My heater can only be replaced ny another unit for this machine. Some machine have hot water heater units you can buy at Home Depot so if yours burns out, hop in the car, spend a few bucks and your back in business. Not mine.
My unit has a plastic tool. It is breakable. A metal one is avail but I can't see through metal and do not know when to move on. I wait until the water is clear before going on.
My unit comes with ten foot of hose that I can stand on and it will not crush. Some units have 16 to 20 feet, some units have hoses you can crush. Hell, some you can do origami with.
When I start to extract, my unit no longer heats water. The water starts to cool right out of the gate.
There are lots of little gadgets one can get on an extractor lack a plug in for your radio, a vanity mirror, remote door locks and a bass canon ( not really)
I wanted every single thing on mine I could get.......OR I wanted one that would fit in the space I had left. it simply shoots hot water in and sucks it out. No bell or whistles. I am very happy with it for what it does. It was also 539 bucks!
Not sure where you are but you may want to call your janitorial supply and ask for a used one. I am told this time of year they are hard to find becuase everyone is cleaning just before holidays....good luck</HTML>
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Re: LET'S TALK EXTRACTORS October 14, 2003 06:12AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Jerry:
Let me try to help you with regard to extractors. Here is what you look for in an extractor:
1. Size of solution and recovery tank. From 1.5 gallons to over 15 gallons. Which you choose has to do with your detail business' volume.
2. Size of vacuum motor either a 2 stage or 3 stage motor. This determines the lift. When they say an extractor has 122" of lift what that refers to is simply a measurement of strength. That is they place a certain quantity of water in a vacuum and use a vacuum motor to lift it up from the bottom up to as high as the motor will life it, 122" or whatever.
So when they say an extractor has 122" of lift that is what it means and the high the number the better lift.
But the reality is that the biggest and best motor you can have in an extractor is a 3 stage motor, meaning it has 3 impellors whereas a 2 stage has only 2 impellors.
3. The type of heating device, either tank heater or in-line heater. The tank heater is the least desirable since it takes about 15 minutes to heat a tank of extractor solution. An inline heater creates instantly hot solution, no waiting.
You can have 1000 watt heaters; dual 600 watt heaters; dual 1000 watt heaters.
Yes, heat is a critical element in cleaning. Does not hot water clean clothes and your dirty hands better. When you consider that 85% of the dirt in carpets is dry dirt and the other 15% is oily dirt the heat really helps to emulsify the oil and works with the chemical to break it down and rinse it out.
You want as hot a temperature as you can get, the hotter the better, 200+ plus.
4. The pump pressure is about 100psi in almost all extractors. We tried some at 150 psi and had pump problems. We do have a unit with a high pressure pump that delivers 375psi the same pressure as you get with a truck mounted professional extraction system. I do not think it makes that much difference in the cleaning of auto carpets, however.
The reason you are spending so much time is that you are trying to make the extractor do what it cannot do. It is not a cleaner unless the carpet is clean.
What you must do is the following:
1. Vacuum the carpets very well to get out all of the dry dirt
2. Next, use appropriate stain removers to remove stains by hand
3. Pre-Spray your foaming carpet shampoo on carpets, and let dwell to breakdown the oily dirt.
4. Next use a air powered rotary shampooer to friction shampoo. If you do not have an air compressor use a Porter Cable d/a with a shampoo brush attachement and friction shampoo the carpets.
5. Finally, use the extractor to rinse out the shampoo and dirt residue. You want to have a nozzle that has a view window so you can see if there is any dirt left.
This process with those tools will take you no more than 20 to 30 minutes to clean the dirtiest carpets, guaranteed.
PRICE
When you understand what goes into an extractor you can better understand the price. For example the 1.5 gallon extractor we sell has the following characteristics: 1.5 gallon tank; 2 stage vacuum motor; 60psi pump; tank heater; 10' host with plastic nozzle. The price $599, less for forum members if they call me.
The Hot One on the other hand has these characteristics: 13 gallon tank; 3 stage vacuum motor; 100 psi pump; dual 1000 watt in line heaters; 15' hose with solution line inside the vacuum hose for easier use; stainless steel nozzle with view window. Price $1595.
You can see when you compare there is a huge difference between the 1.5 gal unit and the 13 gallon unit.
The old saying that you get what you pay for is relevant here.
If I can help you any further please let me know.
Bud A</HTML>
buda
Let me try to help you with regard to extractors. Here is what you look for in an extractor:
1. Size of solution and recovery tank. From 1.5 gallons to over 15 gallons. Which you choose has to do with your detail business' volume.
2. Size of vacuum motor either a 2 stage or 3 stage motor. This determines the lift. When they say an extractor has 122" of lift what that refers to is simply a measurement of strength. That is they place a certain quantity of water in a vacuum and use a vacuum motor to lift it up from the bottom up to as high as the motor will life it, 122" or whatever.
So when they say an extractor has 122" of lift that is what it means and the high the number the better lift.
But the reality is that the biggest and best motor you can have in an extractor is a 3 stage motor, meaning it has 3 impellors whereas a 2 stage has only 2 impellors.
3. The type of heating device, either tank heater or in-line heater. The tank heater is the least desirable since it takes about 15 minutes to heat a tank of extractor solution. An inline heater creates instantly hot solution, no waiting.
You can have 1000 watt heaters; dual 600 watt heaters; dual 1000 watt heaters.
Yes, heat is a critical element in cleaning. Does not hot water clean clothes and your dirty hands better. When you consider that 85% of the dirt in carpets is dry dirt and the other 15% is oily dirt the heat really helps to emulsify the oil and works with the chemical to break it down and rinse it out.
You want as hot a temperature as you can get, the hotter the better, 200+ plus.
4. The pump pressure is about 100psi in almost all extractors. We tried some at 150 psi and had pump problems. We do have a unit with a high pressure pump that delivers 375psi the same pressure as you get with a truck mounted professional extraction system. I do not think it makes that much difference in the cleaning of auto carpets, however.
The reason you are spending so much time is that you are trying to make the extractor do what it cannot do. It is not a cleaner unless the carpet is clean.
What you must do is the following:
1. Vacuum the carpets very well to get out all of the dry dirt
2. Next, use appropriate stain removers to remove stains by hand
3. Pre-Spray your foaming carpet shampoo on carpets, and let dwell to breakdown the oily dirt.
4. Next use a air powered rotary shampooer to friction shampoo. If you do not have an air compressor use a Porter Cable d/a with a shampoo brush attachement and friction shampoo the carpets.
5. Finally, use the extractor to rinse out the shampoo and dirt residue. You want to have a nozzle that has a view window so you can see if there is any dirt left.
This process with those tools will take you no more than 20 to 30 minutes to clean the dirtiest carpets, guaranteed.
PRICE
When you understand what goes into an extractor you can better understand the price. For example the 1.5 gallon extractor we sell has the following characteristics: 1.5 gallon tank; 2 stage vacuum motor; 60psi pump; tank heater; 10' host with plastic nozzle. The price $599, less for forum members if they call me.
The Hot One on the other hand has these characteristics: 13 gallon tank; 3 stage vacuum motor; 100 psi pump; dual 1000 watt in line heaters; 15' hose with solution line inside the vacuum hose for easier use; stainless steel nozzle with view window. Price $1595.
You can see when you compare there is a huge difference between the 1.5 gal unit and the 13 gallon unit.
The old saying that you get what you pay for is relevant here.
If I can help you any further please let me know.
Bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: LET'S TALK EXTRACTORS October 14, 2003 06:12AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Jerry:
Let me try to help you with regard to extractors. Here is what you look for in an extractor:
1. Size of solution and recovery tank. From 1.5 gallons to over 15 gallons. Which you choose has to do with your detail business' volume.
2. Size of vacuum motor either a 2 stage or 3 stage motor. This determines the lift. When they say an extractor has 122" of lift what that refers to is simply a measurement of strength. That is they place a certain quantity of water in a vacuum and use a vacuum motor to lift it up from the bottom up to as high as the motor will life it, 122" or whatever.
So when they say an extractor has 122" of lift that is what it means and the high the number the better lift.
But the reality is that the biggest and best motor you can have in an extractor is a 3 stage motor, meaning it has 3 impellors whereas a 2 stage has only 2 impellors.
3. The type of heating device, either tank heater or in-line heater. The tank heater is the least desirable since it takes about 15 minutes to heat a tank of extractor solution. An inline heater creates instantly hot solution, no waiting.
You can have 1000 watt heaters; dual 600 watt heaters; dual 1000 watt heaters.
Yes, heat is a critical element in cleaning. Does not hot water clean clothes and your dirty hands better. When you consider that 85% of the dirt in carpets is dry dirt and the other 15% is oily dirt the heat really helps to emulsify the oil and works with the chemical to break it down and rinse it out.
You want as hot a temperature as you can get, the hotter the better, 200+ plus.
4. The pump pressure is about 100psi in almost all extractors. We tried some at 150 psi and had pump problems. We do have a unit with a high pressure pump that delivers 375psi the same pressure as you get with a truck mounted professional extraction system. I do not think it makes that much difference in the cleaning of auto carpets, however.
The reason you are spending so much time is that you are trying to make the extractor do what it cannot do. It is not a cleaner unless the carpet is clean.
What you must do is the following:
1. Vacuum the carpets very well to get out all of the dry dirt
2. Next, use appropriate stain removers to remove stains by hand
3. Pre-Spray your foaming carpet shampoo on carpets, and let dwell to breakdown the oily dirt.
4. Next use a air powered rotary shampooer to friction shampoo. If you do not have an air compressor use a Porter Cable d/a with a shampoo brush attachement and friction shampoo the carpets.
5. Finally, use the extractor to rinse out the shampoo and dirt residue. You want to have a nozzle that has a view window so you can see if there is any dirt left.
This process with those tools will take you no more than 20 to 30 minutes to clean the dirtiest carpets, guaranteed.
PRICE
When you understand what goes into an extractor you can better understand the price. For example the 1.5 gallon extractor we sell has the following characteristics: 1.5 gallon tank; 2 stage vacuum motor; 60psi pump; tank heater; 10' host with plastic nozzle. The price $599, less for forum members if they call me.
The Hot One on the other hand has these characteristics: 13 gallon tank; 3 stage vacuum motor; 100 psi pump; dual 1000 watt in line heaters; 15' hose with solution line inside the vacuum hose for easier use; stainless steel nozzle with view window. Price $1595.
You can see when you compare there is a huge difference between the 1.5 gal unit and the 13 gallon unit.
The old saying that you get what you pay for is relevant here.
If I can help you any further please let me know.
Bud A</HTML>
buda
Let me try to help you with regard to extractors. Here is what you look for in an extractor:
1. Size of solution and recovery tank. From 1.5 gallons to over 15 gallons. Which you choose has to do with your detail business' volume.
2. Size of vacuum motor either a 2 stage or 3 stage motor. This determines the lift. When they say an extractor has 122" of lift what that refers to is simply a measurement of strength. That is they place a certain quantity of water in a vacuum and use a vacuum motor to lift it up from the bottom up to as high as the motor will life it, 122" or whatever.
So when they say an extractor has 122" of lift that is what it means and the high the number the better lift.
But the reality is that the biggest and best motor you can have in an extractor is a 3 stage motor, meaning it has 3 impellors whereas a 2 stage has only 2 impellors.
3. The type of heating device, either tank heater or in-line heater. The tank heater is the least desirable since it takes about 15 minutes to heat a tank of extractor solution. An inline heater creates instantly hot solution, no waiting.
You can have 1000 watt heaters; dual 600 watt heaters; dual 1000 watt heaters.
Yes, heat is a critical element in cleaning. Does not hot water clean clothes and your dirty hands better. When you consider that 85% of the dirt in carpets is dry dirt and the other 15% is oily dirt the heat really helps to emulsify the oil and works with the chemical to break it down and rinse it out.
You want as hot a temperature as you can get, the hotter the better, 200+ plus.
4. The pump pressure is about 100psi in almost all extractors. We tried some at 150 psi and had pump problems. We do have a unit with a high pressure pump that delivers 375psi the same pressure as you get with a truck mounted professional extraction system. I do not think it makes that much difference in the cleaning of auto carpets, however.
The reason you are spending so much time is that you are trying to make the extractor do what it cannot do. It is not a cleaner unless the carpet is clean.
What you must do is the following:
1. Vacuum the carpets very well to get out all of the dry dirt
2. Next, use appropriate stain removers to remove stains by hand
3. Pre-Spray your foaming carpet shampoo on carpets, and let dwell to breakdown the oily dirt.
4. Next use a air powered rotary shampooer to friction shampoo. If you do not have an air compressor use a Porter Cable d/a with a shampoo brush attachement and friction shampoo the carpets.
5. Finally, use the extractor to rinse out the shampoo and dirt residue. You want to have a nozzle that has a view window so you can see if there is any dirt left.
This process with those tools will take you no more than 20 to 30 minutes to clean the dirtiest carpets, guaranteed.
PRICE
When you understand what goes into an extractor you can better understand the price. For example the 1.5 gallon extractor we sell has the following characteristics: 1.5 gallon tank; 2 stage vacuum motor; 60psi pump; tank heater; 10' host with plastic nozzle. The price $599, less for forum members if they call me.
The Hot One on the other hand has these characteristics: 13 gallon tank; 3 stage vacuum motor; 100 psi pump; dual 1000 watt in line heaters; 15' hose with solution line inside the vacuum hose for easier use; stainless steel nozzle with view window. Price $1595.
You can see when you compare there is a huge difference between the 1.5 gal unit and the 13 gallon unit.
The old saying that you get what you pay for is relevant here.
If I can help you any further please let me know.
Bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: LET'S TALK EXTRACTORS October 14, 2003 01:07PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 98 |
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Re: LET'S TALK EXTRACTORS October 14, 2003 03:48PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Stan:
Thanks for asking the questions. And, never, never are questions foolish, especially if the person asking them is sincere and lacking in the knowledge that the questions hope to fill.
Your question about pre-spraying with a "heated" chemical is a good one. I had never thought of that, but heated chemical they say is more effective than cold chemical, or at least hot water is more effective. However, in all my years and in all the reading I have done the foaming carpet shampoo or pre-spray is always been applied cold or room temperature.
What is used in an extractor to rinse is an "extractor shampoo." This is a very high dilution, non-foaming shampoo that more or less, "clean" rinses the shampoo and dirt residue out of the fibers. If you have a clear plastic extractor nozzle or a view window in the stainless steel nozzle you can see if you have rinsed clean, or even gotten all the dirt out of the deeper part of the fibers. If you still see dirt in the rinsing water there is still dirt in the carpet and when dry it will "wick" to the top.
To be absolutely professional in your carpet cleaning process you would then spray the carpet and/or fabric upholstery with a acidic rinsing agent. They is called by names like: "Brown-Out" No-Brown" Brown Away, etc.
What happens in light colored fabric if the alkaline chemical is allowed to stay in the fibers it will "yellow" the fabric.
Take for example, your tee-shirts; briefs; or white dress shirts. Do they ever "yellow" on you? I remember my mother used to use alittle vinegar in clean water to rinse all of the whites before putting them on the clothes line to dry.
By using an acidic rinse you neutralize the alkaline chemical.
I tried selling this acidic rinse concept about 10 years ago but it did not fly with detailers and so we eliminated it from our file. After all, how many white carpets or fabric upholsteries do you find in cars.
Regards
bud abraham</HTML>
buda
Thanks for asking the questions. And, never, never are questions foolish, especially if the person asking them is sincere and lacking in the knowledge that the questions hope to fill.
Your question about pre-spraying with a "heated" chemical is a good one. I had never thought of that, but heated chemical they say is more effective than cold chemical, or at least hot water is more effective. However, in all my years and in all the reading I have done the foaming carpet shampoo or pre-spray is always been applied cold or room temperature.
What is used in an extractor to rinse is an "extractor shampoo." This is a very high dilution, non-foaming shampoo that more or less, "clean" rinses the shampoo and dirt residue out of the fibers. If you have a clear plastic extractor nozzle or a view window in the stainless steel nozzle you can see if you have rinsed clean, or even gotten all the dirt out of the deeper part of the fibers. If you still see dirt in the rinsing water there is still dirt in the carpet and when dry it will "wick" to the top.
To be absolutely professional in your carpet cleaning process you would then spray the carpet and/or fabric upholstery with a acidic rinsing agent. They is called by names like: "Brown-Out" No-Brown" Brown Away, etc.
What happens in light colored fabric if the alkaline chemical is allowed to stay in the fibers it will "yellow" the fabric.
Take for example, your tee-shirts; briefs; or white dress shirts. Do they ever "yellow" on you? I remember my mother used to use alittle vinegar in clean water to rinse all of the whites before putting them on the clothes line to dry.
By using an acidic rinse you neutralize the alkaline chemical.
I tried selling this acidic rinse concept about 10 years ago but it did not fly with detailers and so we eliminated it from our file. After all, how many white carpets or fabric upholsteries do you find in cars.
Regards
bud abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: LET'S TALK EXTRACTORS October 15, 2003 02:44PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 137 |
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Re: LET'S TALK EXTRACTORS October 16, 2003 04:19AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 894 |
<HTML>This is kind of off subject, but I wanted to give a great tip on carpet cleaning. You guys will run into this a lot, carpet that has been "cleaned" before by another shop who didnt remove the soap. You can tell by the oily feeling in the carpet and what looks like grease marks from resoiling. Ask the customer if they recently had the car detailed, the dealerships are famous for leaving tons of soap in carpets, if they say yes and you feel oily carpet, then you will save money on soap!
Solution-Just spray small amounts of plain water after vaccuming, and friction brush like normal. Then extract. I did two cars last week alone that had this problem and if I didnt catch it I would have had too much fun sucking out all the soap the dealership left in and the soap I would have sprayed as well. Anyway, just a tip for the new guys!</HTML>
Solution-Just spray small amounts of plain water after vaccuming, and friction brush like normal. Then extract. I did two cars last week alone that had this problem and if I didnt catch it I would have had too much fun sucking out all the soap the dealership left in and the soap I would have sprayed as well. Anyway, just a tip for the new guys!</HTML>
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