Welcome!
» Log In
» Create A New Profile
Home
>
Auto Detailing: Secrets of the Experts
>
Topic
compound
Posted by Amr Sultan
|
compound August 23, 2005 12:49PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>Hello
I'm new here but i have been following for quiet a while now,, I own a big car detailing center,, 5 bays somewhere on the planet,
I'm not in the USA but do buy and get everything from there.
Recently i bought a big shippment of chemicals from a big company you all know(no need to mention names at this point), anyway the compounds i recived seemed to have a problem,
they scratch more then fix,, i think that the abrassive in them does not break while buffing and thus they keep scratching, the swirl remover polish is not able to take those scratches off so that leaves the finish of the car with all the pad swirls visible for anyone to see, i switched to all kinds of pads starting with wool and ending with least agressive foam pads with no use,
Does anyone have an idea to what i am saying?
Any of you guys face something like this before?
Thanks
Nice meeting you all.</HTML>
Prestige cars
I'm new here but i have been following for quiet a while now,, I own a big car detailing center,, 5 bays somewhere on the planet,
I'm not in the USA but do buy and get everything from there.
Recently i bought a big shippment of chemicals from a big company you all know(no need to mention names at this point), anyway the compounds i recived seemed to have a problem,
they scratch more then fix,, i think that the abrassive in them does not break while buffing and thus they keep scratching, the swirl remover polish is not able to take those scratches off so that leaves the finish of the car with all the pad swirls visible for anyone to see, i switched to all kinds of pads starting with wool and ending with least agressive foam pads with no use,
Does anyone have an idea to what i am saying?
Any of you guys face something like this before?
Thanks
Nice meeting you all.</HTML>
Prestige cars
|
Re: compound August 23, 2005 02:18PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>Interesting.
What speed are you operating the rotary, very high, over 1750?
Some compounds use crystilline silica in with other abrasives.
If the silica is not finely ground and allowed to "break" as you use it, this will cause deep cuts in the finish.
Also, higher than 1750 rpm softens the finish, due to the amount of heat generated, and drives the marring deeper, making it very difficult to ever polish out the marring.
There is an article on our site, that referrs to the SAE study done regarding this generating of excessive heat and how it affects the clear.
Magazine Articles-www.autoint.com
The one thing to always keep in mind, "cutting is abrading" or removing material, "polishing is burnishing" which is the removal of the abrading marks.
If one creates too deep of cut marks, it is often, with these newer clears, next to impossible to get them out.
Additionally, if in the cutting process, excessive heat is created, the operator may also be removing too much clear, .3 mil (3/10th of a mil), the dense portion, the top of the clear is removed and the operator ends ups attempting to polish a "sponge", and that just doesn't work.
If you wish, give me phone call and we can discuss this in more depth, the phone number is on the website.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
What speed are you operating the rotary, very high, over 1750?
Some compounds use crystilline silica in with other abrasives.
If the silica is not finely ground and allowed to "break" as you use it, this will cause deep cuts in the finish.
Also, higher than 1750 rpm softens the finish, due to the amount of heat generated, and drives the marring deeper, making it very difficult to ever polish out the marring.
There is an article on our site, that referrs to the SAE study done regarding this generating of excessive heat and how it affects the clear.
Magazine Articles-www.autoint.com
The one thing to always keep in mind, "cutting is abrading" or removing material, "polishing is burnishing" which is the removal of the abrading marks.
If one creates too deep of cut marks, it is often, with these newer clears, next to impossible to get them out.
Additionally, if in the cutting process, excessive heat is created, the operator may also be removing too much clear, .3 mil (3/10th of a mil), the dense portion, the top of the clear is removed and the operator ends ups attempting to polish a "sponge", and that just doesn't work.
If you wish, give me phone call and we can discuss this in more depth, the phone number is on the website.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
|
Re: compound August 23, 2005 10:17PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>Actually it would help if you mention the product name as some of us here may have or currently do work with the very same products.
Also name the pads you are using including what grade pad with what grade product, for example a "cutting" pad, wool or foam, with what cutting product?
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
Also name the pads you are using including what grade pad with what grade product, for example a "cutting" pad, wool or foam, with what cutting product?
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
|
Re: compound August 24, 2005 01:42AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 35 |
<HTML>Good products and good training go hand and hand.
There are allot of fine products out on the market but if your detailers arnt train on how to properly use them your going to have trouble.</HTML>
Superior Shine-Covina, Ca.
Please join me in giving thanks to our men and women who serve in the name of our freedom and cannot be home with their families. Please include them in your prayers.
There are allot of fine products out on the market but if your detailers arnt train on how to properly use them your going to have trouble.</HTML>
Superior Shine-Covina, Ca.
Please join me in giving thanks to our men and women who serve in the name of our freedom and cannot be home with their families. Please include them in your prayers.
|
Re: compound August 24, 2005 10:21AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>Hi Again,,
Thanks for your answer on the Compound article,
I totaly understand what you guys are saying and TOTALY agree,,
To make it a bit clearer,,
I am using 1200 grit compound and 2000 grit with a 60/40 yellow wool blend pad for compounding,,
This is the same product and pad i was using since i started the shop about a year ago,, i was producing AMAZING MIRROR SHINE results on badly damaged paint,, the customers when picking there car were amazed not just happy,
so i orderd a full load of container chemicals(the same as before) from the same company as to have a huge stock since at good times i detail more then 100 cars p/month,
but i started facing the problems, i tried everything but no use, so i tried another compound from a diffrent company and it was much much better and thats what lead me to the fact that there was something wrong with the product itself,, and after thinking the only explanation i could find was that the abrassives in the compounds dont actualy break so thats why i posted here to find out if that is possible or is there something else wrong?!
As for the company i just dont want to mention the name at the moment because what i belive is that the company changed the formulas to a cheaper one as to gain more profit since i was buying huge amounts of the chemicals,, you all know that a small change in quality can turn into big big profits,
To give you an idea of the amounts i'm talking about and stuck with here is some of them:
1) About 850 gallons of compounds,
2) About 275 gallons of swirl remover polish,
Plus lots more of cleaning chemicals,tar removers,dressings....etc
all changed in thickness and cleaning power.
Thanks</HTML>
Prestige cars
Thanks for your answer on the Compound article,
I totaly understand what you guys are saying and TOTALY agree,,
To make it a bit clearer,,
I am using 1200 grit compound and 2000 grit with a 60/40 yellow wool blend pad for compounding,,
This is the same product and pad i was using since i started the shop about a year ago,, i was producing AMAZING MIRROR SHINE results on badly damaged paint,, the customers when picking there car were amazed not just happy,
so i orderd a full load of container chemicals(the same as before) from the same company as to have a huge stock since at good times i detail more then 100 cars p/month,
but i started facing the problems, i tried everything but no use, so i tried another compound from a diffrent company and it was much much better and thats what lead me to the fact that there was something wrong with the product itself,, and after thinking the only explanation i could find was that the abrassives in the compounds dont actualy break so thats why i posted here to find out if that is possible or is there something else wrong?!
As for the company i just dont want to mention the name at the moment because what i belive is that the company changed the formulas to a cheaper one as to gain more profit since i was buying huge amounts of the chemicals,, you all know that a small change in quality can turn into big big profits,
To give you an idea of the amounts i'm talking about and stuck with here is some of them:
1) About 850 gallons of compounds,
2) About 275 gallons of swirl remover polish,
Plus lots more of cleaning chemicals,tar removers,dressings....etc
all changed in thickness and cleaning power.
Thanks</HTML>
Prestige cars
|
Re: compound August 24, 2005 12:32PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>Well that sure is ALOT of product and if it is the product then it seems you are stuck with it all unless they have some great return policy?
I feel your first mistake is your aggresive approach at polishing. I hardly ever use a wool blend pad with a paint leveler such as you describe and when I say "hardly" I mean I actually don't even own one.
The most abrasive I get, especially on modern clear coats, is a lambs wool pad, like ValuGards "belly pad", and a compound specifically designed for modern clear coats. You also need to keep the rpm's down around the 1500 range. I can ahndle most clear coat problems with a mild polish and a foma polishing pad and rpm's set around 1400 for removal (paint imperfection) and around 1000 to 1200 for polishing.
As grumpy noted, using heavy cutting techniques on todays paints can drive them deeper into the cars finish which can be very frustrating.
It may be as you state, you got a bum batch of product and you'll need to settle that with the manufacturer. Call them and let them know your displeasure with the quality of the product and ask for either a refund or some type of credit.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
I feel your first mistake is your aggresive approach at polishing. I hardly ever use a wool blend pad with a paint leveler such as you describe and when I say "hardly" I mean I actually don't even own one.
The most abrasive I get, especially on modern clear coats, is a lambs wool pad, like ValuGards "belly pad", and a compound specifically designed for modern clear coats. You also need to keep the rpm's down around the 1500 range. I can ahndle most clear coat problems with a mild polish and a foma polishing pad and rpm's set around 1400 for removal (paint imperfection) and around 1000 to 1200 for polishing.
As grumpy noted, using heavy cutting techniques on todays paints can drive them deeper into the cars finish which can be very frustrating.
It may be as you state, you got a bum batch of product and you'll need to settle that with the manufacturer. Call them and let them know your displeasure with the quality of the product and ask for either a refund or some type of credit.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
|
Re: compound August 24, 2005 12:55PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>Anthony:
Where i am cars come with scratches that can reach 800,,
so agressive compounding is a must i'm afraid because in any case the cars look like they need respraying when they come in,
as we are a very dusty country and cars are wiped with a dirty cloth and with all the sand on it and also with so much hand power so the dust and sand cause scratches that are sooo deep to accept either foam pads or just a mild compound and polish.
People here want that,, a brand new car and they understand that they are cutting the life of the clear coat but it makes no diffrence to them as in any case the car is sprayed about every three to four years!!!!
As for the company that i bought from,well they did replace me with a few drums to start with but the problem is way bigger then that plus they did hassel me so much untill i was able to get them to admit that the problem is from there production line and they only admited to one kind of compound and the polish,,
I just finaly accepted the fact that i was cheated by them because nothing else i can do since i am in a far away country!!!!!!!
But i still have samples of the old products they sold me and the same products they sent afterwards and let me tell you that they did cheat me,, a huge diffrence in quality,and i will act towards them soon if they dont respond to the situation.
you know what i think,, i think they used sand in the compound instead of buying some kind of abrassives due to the price diffrence,,, too bad that people do that for a few extra dollars!!
If only they know how hard we detailers work to earn each penny!!
as in all what i need to know is does sand go in the production of compounds?
Thanks</HTML>
Prestige cars
Where i am cars come with scratches that can reach 800,,
so agressive compounding is a must i'm afraid because in any case the cars look like they need respraying when they come in,
as we are a very dusty country and cars are wiped with a dirty cloth and with all the sand on it and also with so much hand power so the dust and sand cause scratches that are sooo deep to accept either foam pads or just a mild compound and polish.
People here want that,, a brand new car and they understand that they are cutting the life of the clear coat but it makes no diffrence to them as in any case the car is sprayed about every three to four years!!!!
As for the company that i bought from,well they did replace me with a few drums to start with but the problem is way bigger then that plus they did hassel me so much untill i was able to get them to admit that the problem is from there production line and they only admited to one kind of compound and the polish,,
I just finaly accepted the fact that i was cheated by them because nothing else i can do since i am in a far away country!!!!!!!
But i still have samples of the old products they sold me and the same products they sent afterwards and let me tell you that they did cheat me,, a huge diffrence in quality,and i will act towards them soon if they dont respond to the situation.
you know what i think,, i think they used sand in the compound instead of buying some kind of abrassives due to the price diffrence,,, too bad that people do that for a few extra dollars!!
If only they know how hard we detailers work to earn each penny!!
as in all what i need to know is does sand go in the production of compounds?
Thanks</HTML>
Prestige cars
|
Re: compound August 24, 2005 01:35PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>Amr,
These type of unfortunate situation is why ISO is so important to the purchasers of products.
With an ISO certified company, each step, from the ordering of the raw materials, to the receiving and checking in, to the blending process, final mix, packaging,etc is checked and each must meet the criteria in order to insure consistant quality of the end product.
When the ISO auditors come in, and if they find a company cheated one area, they lose their certifcation.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
These type of unfortunate situation is why ISO is so important to the purchasers of products.
With an ISO certified company, each step, from the ordering of the raw materials, to the receiving and checking in, to the blending process, final mix, packaging,etc is checked and each must meet the criteria in order to insure consistant quality of the end product.
When the ISO auditors come in, and if they find a company cheated one area, they lose their certifcation.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
|
Re: compound August 24, 2005 06:44PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>
Amr:
If you can afford it...would suggest you send original samples and the new batch to an independent lab for testing.. I am sure there are chemists in your region of the world or close by in India who could anaylse and give you their findings.
Perhaps someone on the board can give some recommendations as to a Lab here in the usa. You also need to check if you have any insurance that would have covered damage to product during to shipment .
In any case you will need to file formal notice with your governments office of Import advising them that the company you have done business "may have" supplied you with inferior products. They can put this company on a watch list and at least advise future importers of a possible problem.
You can also file an official complaint with the Attorney General of the State in which the company is licensed to do business...it is possible theire might some violation of export laws if it is found that products were tampered with.
In future make sure that you purchase some form of insurance to cover this type of loss. Also instead of paying for all the goods at once a large portion of the money should be placed in a mutally agreed escrow account only to be released to seller if products do meet the specifications.</HTML>
Amr:
If you can afford it...would suggest you send original samples and the new batch to an independent lab for testing.. I am sure there are chemists in your region of the world or close by in India who could anaylse and give you their findings.
Perhaps someone on the board can give some recommendations as to a Lab here in the usa. You also need to check if you have any insurance that would have covered damage to product during to shipment .
In any case you will need to file formal notice with your governments office of Import advising them that the company you have done business "may have" supplied you with inferior products. They can put this company on a watch list and at least advise future importers of a possible problem.
You can also file an official complaint with the Attorney General of the State in which the company is licensed to do business...it is possible theire might some violation of export laws if it is found that products were tampered with.
In future make sure that you purchase some form of insurance to cover this type of loss. Also instead of paying for all the goods at once a large portion of the money should be placed in a mutally agreed escrow account only to be released to seller if products do meet the specifications.</HTML>
|
Re: compound August 25, 2005 12:28PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
|
Re: compound August 25, 2005 06:25PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>Just re-read your posts.
I have reason to believe that you are located in a very warm climate.
I also seem to feel that you have had the products for at least a few months.
Heat is very bad for many compounds, etc, as most less expensive compounds and polishes have a less expensive emulifier, less mix time and tend to naturally seperate when allowed to set, and it is much worse when they are stored in a hot storage area.
It may be that they have broken down, which if this is true, would partially explain the concerns you are having.
We recommend that storage be in an area that does not exceed, on a continually basis, 90F, and they should be well shaken before putting to use.
If the product has a date code of over two years, it may seperate on it's on, no matter how they are stored.
Just some ideas for you.
ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
I have reason to believe that you are located in a very warm climate.
I also seem to feel that you have had the products for at least a few months.
Heat is very bad for many compounds, etc, as most less expensive compounds and polishes have a less expensive emulifier, less mix time and tend to naturally seperate when allowed to set, and it is much worse when they are stored in a hot storage area.
It may be that they have broken down, which if this is true, would partially explain the concerns you are having.
We recommend that storage be in an area that does not exceed, on a continually basis, 90F, and they should be well shaken before putting to use.
If the product has a date code of over two years, it may seperate on it's on, no matter how they are stored.
Just some ideas for you.
ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
|
Re: compound August 26, 2005 01:00AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 35 |
<HTML>Hey Ketch,
Sounds like you just realized it is your stuff!! LOL !!!
Yea thats it, it is too hot!!! LOL!!
If I don't bust your chops who's gonna do it?</HTML>
Superior Shine-Covina, Ca.
Please join me in giving thanks to our men and women who serve in the name of our freedom and cannot be home with their families. Please include them in your prayers.
Sounds like you just realized it is your stuff!! LOL !!!
Yea thats it, it is too hot!!! LOL!!
If I don't bust your chops who's gonna do it?</HTML>
Superior Shine-Covina, Ca.
Please join me in giving thanks to our men and women who serve in the name of our freedom and cannot be home with their families. Please include them in your prayers.
|
Re: compound August 26, 2005 11:48AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>Ketch:
The products are well stored, well mixed....etc
The problem mainly is low quality products sold by a company that only cares for higher profits,
remember i bought the same products from the same company before that where perfect,, its just that when i order huge amounts the low quality would make huge profits!!!
Thats the truth, i tried old stuff and new stuff on the same cars and the results ARE TOTALY DIFFRENT,
Soon i will give you guys a detailed history with numbers and facts of what i experienced with this company so that you take care,,
Again we work hard for every cent we earn and its not fair to get cheated by a company that states to be respectable just to add to its profits.
I have proofs now of what i'm saying and this looks like it will be interesting to you guys so please bare with me till i get out with this SCANDAL.
thanks</HTML>
Prestige cars
The products are well stored, well mixed....etc
The problem mainly is low quality products sold by a company that only cares for higher profits,
remember i bought the same products from the same company before that where perfect,, its just that when i order huge amounts the low quality would make huge profits!!!
Thats the truth, i tried old stuff and new stuff on the same cars and the results ARE TOTALY DIFFRENT,
Soon i will give you guys a detailed history with numbers and facts of what i experienced with this company so that you take care,,
Again we work hard for every cent we earn and its not fair to get cheated by a company that states to be respectable just to add to its profits.
I have proofs now of what i'm saying and this looks like it will be interesting to you guys so please bare with me till i get out with this SCANDAL.
thanks</HTML>
Prestige cars
|
Re: compound August 26, 2005 09:49PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>While I can well understand your frustration with the problem you have at hand.. there are many other avenues to a positive resultion without resorting to scandalizing a business and a businesses reputation.
It is very possible that the product could have sustained damage during shipment, on the docks out in the heat, or the supplier could have also been provided inferior or faulty products or ingredients.
If the objective is to get your money and resolve the problem then it might be prudent to act diplomatically.</HTML>
It is very possible that the product could have sustained damage during shipment, on the docks out in the heat, or the supplier could have also been provided inferior or faulty products or ingredients.
If the objective is to get your money and resolve the problem then it might be prudent to act diplomatically.</HTML>
|
Re: compound August 29, 2005 12:19PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>Concoursgarage:
I'm not scandalising an HONEST buisness,, very important to remember this,
When you meet a good buisness that sells good products you come and keep talking about how good and respectable these people are because you want others to benifit from,,, right?
Then vice versa as everything else in life is,,,
when you meet a cheat then you must also warn others as not to fall in what you fell in,
As for scandling the buisness i want you to remember that they did that to themselfes,
They sell perfect products but when you make a big order out of what you have been using they play around with the products for an extra profit!!!!!!
You know where that extra profit comes from?
From every minute that you work hard in to support yourself and to be an honest man and support all that are hanging on your neck,
Not only that but they cause you problems when trying to do that, plus in a case like mine i have loads of products in my warehouse and am buying diffrent products, from the market,, THATS MORE THEN DOUBLE THE COST.
To me i have prepared the way i will hurt this company in court and other places but before that i feel that its my duty to send a LOUD WARNING that i will not let it pass just in case like you say its not there fault.
Is that fair to you or am i still mistaken??
I dont know about you but i work very hard to earn every cent i'm earning now.
And i dont intend to work that hard for a cheating companys benifit.</HTML>
Prestige cars
I'm not scandalising an HONEST buisness,, very important to remember this,
When you meet a good buisness that sells good products you come and keep talking about how good and respectable these people are because you want others to benifit from,,, right?
Then vice versa as everything else in life is,,,
when you meet a cheat then you must also warn others as not to fall in what you fell in,
As for scandling the buisness i want you to remember that they did that to themselfes,
They sell perfect products but when you make a big order out of what you have been using they play around with the products for an extra profit!!!!!!
You know where that extra profit comes from?
From every minute that you work hard in to support yourself and to be an honest man and support all that are hanging on your neck,
Not only that but they cause you problems when trying to do that, plus in a case like mine i have loads of products in my warehouse and am buying diffrent products, from the market,, THATS MORE THEN DOUBLE THE COST.
To me i have prepared the way i will hurt this company in court and other places but before that i feel that its my duty to send a LOUD WARNING that i will not let it pass just in case like you say its not there fault.
Is that fair to you or am i still mistaken??
I dont know about you but i work very hard to earn every cent i'm earning now.
And i dont intend to work that hard for a cheating companys benifit.</HTML>
Prestige cars
|
Re: compound August 29, 2005 02:20PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>I have resolved more problems in my life and business with diplomacy instead of threats and scandals. I have found that speaking directly to companies and impressing upon them the importance of being a good service provider and honorable people has been far more effective.
“Learn how to win friends and influence people instead of loosing friends and winning enemies” The use of threats, high strung over emotional behaviour, diminishes you and your claim. People respond better to calm, collected reasoning. Put your ego aside when negotiating/resolving a problem and leave room for the individual to “save face”
While I certainly empathize with your predicament, there are two sides to every dispute and we have not heard from the other party and in my opinion it is unfair to use our forum to cast negative aspersions or tarnish and scandalize a peron’s personal and business reputation.
Most of us here are intelligent savvy business people and do not need patronizing advise from “a company from far away to tell us how to avoid cheating businesses”
You chose this service provider and were quite happy with them until this recent dispute. You need to look at the big picture. Did they provide you with knowledge, training and expertise to get your detailing operation going in a short period of time (100 cars per month) if so you are well ahead of the curve… chalk it up to bad experience move forward and put your effort in to growing your business… revenge is like a cancer it will eat you alive and kill your business.</HTML>
“Learn how to win friends and influence people instead of loosing friends and winning enemies” The use of threats, high strung over emotional behaviour, diminishes you and your claim. People respond better to calm, collected reasoning. Put your ego aside when negotiating/resolving a problem and leave room for the individual to “save face”
While I certainly empathize with your predicament, there are two sides to every dispute and we have not heard from the other party and in my opinion it is unfair to use our forum to cast negative aspersions or tarnish and scandalize a peron’s personal and business reputation.
Most of us here are intelligent savvy business people and do not need patronizing advise from “a company from far away to tell us how to avoid cheating businesses”
You chose this service provider and were quite happy with them until this recent dispute. You need to look at the big picture. Did they provide you with knowledge, training and expertise to get your detailing operation going in a short period of time (100 cars per month) if so you are well ahead of the curve… chalk it up to bad experience move forward and put your effort in to growing your business… revenge is like a cancer it will eat you alive and kill your business.</HTML>
|
Re: compound August 29, 2005 04:35PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>councorsgarage:
You know that you are the only one here that is doing more then his best to get this subject out of here!!!!!!
Very weard!!!!
obviously you know who i am talking about and also obviously you are a friend of him or something!!
no other explanation to your strange attitude!!
How many gallons was your highest purchase in life?
You are reffering to this forum as OUR fourm!!
who are you?
I have already made lots of friends and met RESPECTABLE people from here that CARE and help and UNDERSTAND,,, i dont see any of them annoyed or anything from what i posted.
As for hearing a two sided story i never hid my post here,, it was read and they choose to not answer,,plus i never talk or scandal without having proof in my bag,in fact this is the very first time in my life i'm scandling a company.
As to being all here inteligent and savvy people and not in need of advice from far away companys as you state,
well,
Who gave you the right in the first place to talk on behaf of everone here!!!!!
Are you there leader or what!!!!
A lot of people here mailed me and offered there help and didnt want to fall in the same situation as i did, would you like there names so as to kick them out of here MR/ LEADER !!!!!
As for THE BIG PICTURE you want me to look at,
well ask a woman that has been raped to look at the big picture which is that the raper left her alive!!!!
You are even shouting now more then me!!
Revenge is a cancer i agree but i can control where i plant it,, and thats going to be in your FRIENDS buisness till it eats him,
instead of coming at me better tell him to not cheat people,,
Try to be a good american.</HTML>
Prestige cars
You know that you are the only one here that is doing more then his best to get this subject out of here!!!!!!
Very weard!!!!
obviously you know who i am talking about and also obviously you are a friend of him or something!!
no other explanation to your strange attitude!!
How many gallons was your highest purchase in life?
You are reffering to this forum as OUR fourm!!
who are you?
I have already made lots of friends and met RESPECTABLE people from here that CARE and help and UNDERSTAND,,, i dont see any of them annoyed or anything from what i posted.
As for hearing a two sided story i never hid my post here,, it was read and they choose to not answer,,plus i never talk or scandal without having proof in my bag,in fact this is the very first time in my life i'm scandling a company.
As to being all here inteligent and savvy people and not in need of advice from far away companys as you state,
well,
Who gave you the right in the first place to talk on behaf of everone here!!!!!
Are you there leader or what!!!!
A lot of people here mailed me and offered there help and didnt want to fall in the same situation as i did, would you like there names so as to kick them out of here MR/ LEADER !!!!!
As for THE BIG PICTURE you want me to look at,
well ask a woman that has been raped to look at the big picture which is that the raper left her alive!!!!
You are even shouting now more then me!!
Revenge is a cancer i agree but i can control where i plant it,, and thats going to be in your FRIENDS buisness till it eats him,
instead of coming at me better tell him to not cheat people,,
Try to be a good american.</HTML>
Prestige cars
|
Re: compound August 29, 2005 04:55PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 499 |
<HTML>Rob, great advice. I also don't like the use of this forum as a tool of slander or revenge. If you have a beef with someone or their business please take it up with them personally. This forum is not a soapbox for you to use to badmouth another person or business with unproven claims and not giving the other a chance to respond to defend themself. By that I mean that you have basically called the other person out without actually naming them. It's pretty lame to throw stones when you don't have the guts to call out the person you are throwing them at BY NAME. Give them a chance to respond to the claims you have made against them. Really though, this is a private matter between the two of you and it should be handled as such in private and not in a public forum.</HTML>
|
Re: compound August 29, 2005 05:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>Scott:
I havent named the person because if 2 or 3 here can PREDICT who the person is then the rest cant,
I havent sealed the cuys mouth,, he chose not to answer, thats because he got the message that i'm trying to send him.
As for using the forum for this, it realy surprises me that one or two people choose what is said here and what is not !!!!!!!!!
Correct me please if i am wrong,,
Isnt this a puplic room for detailing or did i loose my way??!!
Finaly why on earth are you reading what you dont like!!!!!!!!!
I thought that you are a free country!!!!!</HTML>
Prestige cars
I havent named the person because if 2 or 3 here can PREDICT who the person is then the rest cant,
I havent sealed the cuys mouth,, he chose not to answer, thats because he got the message that i'm trying to send him.
As for using the forum for this, it realy surprises me that one or two people choose what is said here and what is not !!!!!!!!!
Correct me please if i am wrong,,
Isnt this a puplic room for detailing or did i loose my way??!!
Finaly why on earth are you reading what you dont like!!!!!!!!!
I thought that you are a free country!!!!!</HTML>
Prestige cars
|
Re: compound August 29, 2005 05:40PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 35 |
<HTML>Is it just me or does this guy sound like Buds long lost cousin??
Same style and all.</HTML>
Superior Shine-Covina, Ca.
Please join me in giving thanks to our men and women who serve in the name of our freedom and cannot be home with their families. Please include them in your prayers.
Same style and all.</HTML>
Superior Shine-Covina, Ca.
Please join me in giving thanks to our men and women who serve in the name of our freedom and cannot be home with their families. Please include them in your prayers.
|
Re: compound August 29, 2005 05:42PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>Amr,
I can feel for your frustration and also sympathize with you to a certain degree but I do agree with others that there is a road one should follow in these matters.
First is to directly contact the supplier in question and seek to work out the issue in private.
If that gets you no where you can then contact the Better Business Burea (BB
and file a complaint, or other governing body that handles exports.
You can then come to a forum, such as this and WARN others of your bad experience with this company, which I do not believe is ValuGard, and give your opinion. I understand that your primary goal is to express your opinion here but you need to do so in a manner that deals with the products and not the character of the people or person who sold you the products. So one can slam a companies products but one should not assasinate the sellers character with labels such as "thief" or "crook".
And yes...this is a free country and yes you can post anything on a forum as long as you do not violate that specific forums rules and you can even slam people BUT that will not earn you the respect of your peers, which are other professional detailers. Countless detailers have come and gone on this forum and they all claim to have been "pros" but their demeanor, their character, how they handled themselves proved otherwise and they all soon leave. I hope you decide to stick around as I am interested how this all comes about and also interested in hearing about your detailing experiences in your area "neck of the woods"
Take care,
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
I can feel for your frustration and also sympathize with you to a certain degree but I do agree with others that there is a road one should follow in these matters.
First is to directly contact the supplier in question and seek to work out the issue in private.
If that gets you no where you can then contact the Better Business Burea (BB
and file a complaint, or other governing body that handles exports.You can then come to a forum, such as this and WARN others of your bad experience with this company, which I do not believe is ValuGard, and give your opinion. I understand that your primary goal is to express your opinion here but you need to do so in a manner that deals with the products and not the character of the people or person who sold you the products. So one can slam a companies products but one should not assasinate the sellers character with labels such as "thief" or "crook".
And yes...this is a free country and yes you can post anything on a forum as long as you do not violate that specific forums rules and you can even slam people BUT that will not earn you the respect of your peers, which are other professional detailers. Countless detailers have come and gone on this forum and they all claim to have been "pros" but their demeanor, their character, how they handled themselves proved otherwise and they all soon leave. I hope you decide to stick around as I am interested how this all comes about and also interested in hearing about your detailing experiences in your area "neck of the woods"
Take care,
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
|
Re: compound August 29, 2005 06:29PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>This is indeed a free country where Democracy is practiced. However the freedom to speak “means responsible speech” It means that you do not slander a person’s business or personal reputation in a public place.
There is another forum called the judicial process …and it is this process where you bring your case either to arbitration or through the court system, you present the evidence and a jury of your peers or a judge will render a verdict as to the merits of your case. When the verdict is rendered and if it is your favor then you can say all wish about the service provider.
While I can speculate, surmise, who the service provider might be…absent of real facts I cannot and should not allow myself to form any negative opinions about the subject at hand. Maturity means that I must put aside my own personal feelings about the individual put aside my own personal prejudices, likes or dislike for the individual and judge the situation based on an objective factual basis.
No I do not speak for everyone, but I would defend every person including you if someone tried to slander your reputation.
Sometimes it is difficult to have integrity but it is when we are most challenged that "the Integrity" to do and say the right thing is the measure of what kind of person we really are.</HTML>
There is another forum called the judicial process …and it is this process where you bring your case either to arbitration or through the court system, you present the evidence and a jury of your peers or a judge will render a verdict as to the merits of your case. When the verdict is rendered and if it is your favor then you can say all wish about the service provider.
While I can speculate, surmise, who the service provider might be…absent of real facts I cannot and should not allow myself to form any negative opinions about the subject at hand. Maturity means that I must put aside my own personal feelings about the individual put aside my own personal prejudices, likes or dislike for the individual and judge the situation based on an objective factual basis.
No I do not speak for everyone, but I would defend every person including you if someone tried to slander your reputation.
Sometimes it is difficult to have integrity but it is when we are most challenged that "the Integrity" to do and say the right thing is the measure of what kind of person we really are.</HTML>
|
Re: compound August 30, 2005 02:36AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 146 |
<HTML>Concorsgarage:
HORSE HOCKEY / BULLSH!T Stop protecting. We all detail and that's HARD EARNED$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Amr:
You tell it, Take his ass for everything he's got because he's a thief plain and simple. For what he did, he is a COWARD AND LOW LIFE I.M.O HE'S LOWER THAN WHALE SH!T</HTML>
WE DON'T USE THE "F-WORD" YA KNOW "FREE" A M.O.B BUSINESS
HORSE HOCKEY / BULLSH!T Stop protecting. We all detail and that's HARD EARNED$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Amr:
You tell it, Take his ass for everything he's got because he's a thief plain and simple. For what he did, he is a COWARD AND LOW LIFE I.M.O HE'S LOWER THAN WHALE SH!T</HTML>
WE DON'T USE THE "F-WORD" YA KNOW "FREE" A M.O.B BUSINESS
|
Re: compound September 01, 2005 02:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 73 |
<HTML>amr i for one read this forum to find out about this type of business practice i agree i work to hard to piss away my money to anyone who may be less than honest.if you have tried to resolve this matter with the supplier and have gotten no where then in my opinion you must resort to any measure to recoup your loses.a mistake is one thing but fraud is fraud.remember you are the customer here.i have dealt with many companies over the years that i have heard bad things about but i will always give them one chance,if they burn me i move on.it sounds like you lost a large amount of money and deserve to voice your opinion.i would have called them out already.im a little ashamed at how my fellow detailers have brow beat you,justice is in fact a matter of public opinion when it is presented with all the facts.GOOD LUCK..</HTML>
|
Re: compound September 02, 2005 12:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 499 |
<HTML>"Scott:
I havent named the person because if 2 or 3 here can PREDICT who the person is then the rest cant,
I havent sealed the cuys mouth,, he chose not to answer, thats because he got the message that i'm trying to send him.
As for using the forum for this, it realy surprises me that one or two people choose what is said here and what is not !!!!!!!!!
Correct me please if i am wrong,,
Isnt this a puplic room for detailing or did i loose my way??!!
Finaly why on earth are you reading what you dont like!!!!!!!!!
I thought that you are a free country!!!!!
Prestige cars"
First off Amr, I want to express my sympathy for your situation. I know what it's like to feel like you have been taken advantage of and it isn't fun. The point I was trying to make was that this is a detailing forum - not a forum for your beef with that particular supplier. If the supplier in question screwed you over that sucks. If he refuses to deal with the situation and do what it takes to make you happy as a customer then you have several methods of recourse as a consumer. If you are in the right then you can force the other party to deal with the situation. The problem I have with these types of posts are that they express your opinion of a situation that may be wide open to interpretation by different people. Who knows who is right here? There is no way for anyone to judge that without actually being directly involved in this situation and that isn't fair. I don't have a problem with you posting about a bad experience with a supplier but I guess I just didn't like the manner in which you did it. That's just me but I wish you continued success in your business and hopefully nothing like this will happen again in the future! You are in Egypt correct? How is business for you? I am interested to hear how your business operates in that part of the world. Are there any problems that arise due to your location and/or climate?</HTML>
I havent named the person because if 2 or 3 here can PREDICT who the person is then the rest cant,
I havent sealed the cuys mouth,, he chose not to answer, thats because he got the message that i'm trying to send him.
As for using the forum for this, it realy surprises me that one or two people choose what is said here and what is not !!!!!!!!!
Correct me please if i am wrong,,
Isnt this a puplic room for detailing or did i loose my way??!!
Finaly why on earth are you reading what you dont like!!!!!!!!!
I thought that you are a free country!!!!!
Prestige cars"
First off Amr, I want to express my sympathy for your situation. I know what it's like to feel like you have been taken advantage of and it isn't fun. The point I was trying to make was that this is a detailing forum - not a forum for your beef with that particular supplier. If the supplier in question screwed you over that sucks. If he refuses to deal with the situation and do what it takes to make you happy as a customer then you have several methods of recourse as a consumer. If you are in the right then you can force the other party to deal with the situation. The problem I have with these types of posts are that they express your opinion of a situation that may be wide open to interpretation by different people. Who knows who is right here? There is no way for anyone to judge that without actually being directly involved in this situation and that isn't fair. I don't have a problem with you posting about a bad experience with a supplier but I guess I just didn't like the manner in which you did it. That's just me but I wish you continued success in your business and hopefully nothing like this will happen again in the future! You are in Egypt correct? How is business for you? I am interested to hear how your business operates in that part of the world. Are there any problems that arise due to your location and/or climate?</HTML>
|
Re: compound September 02, 2005 12:39AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 866 |
|
Re: compound September 02, 2005 02:07PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
|
Re: compound September 02, 2005 04:46PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
|
Re: compound September 03, 2005 02:32AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 866 |
<HTML>Wadda mean don't click! I get emailed the replys!!
I don't go anywhere during holiday weekends. I take every other Monday off anyway so I play when everybody else is at work.
I plan on detailing the wifes car that about it.</HTML>
-----------------------------------------------------
Plays in the rain --- www.SuperiorShineDetailing.com
I don't go anywhere during holiday weekends. I take every other Monday off anyway so I play when everybody else is at work.
I plan on detailing the wifes car that about it.</HTML>
-----------------------------------------------------
Plays in the rain --- www.SuperiorShineDetailing.com
|
Re: compound September 03, 2005 05:43PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>Well the buisness in our country is a bit diffrent then the buisness in other countries i think,and thats mainly due to the mentality of the people around here,
In egypt, thats where i am(you where asking) a lot of detailing shops opened, at the begining they did good buisness but as they did't produce such a good detailing job, plus the shops where not well equipt,not well decorated....etc it gave the customer the impression that it was a bit cleaner then having it done at a gas station but the diffrence in price is not worth it so they never did it again or even recomend the service to anyone, that lead these shops to go down in price in order to make a living,
the prices kept falling between them,it went down to a $14 for a full detaining service!!!!
At the end to cut things short they closed down with only 2 or 3 left,
As for us,well we where able to give them the quality that they never seen before,specialy that egypt is a country where cars reach a condition in one or two years totaly unbeliveble!!
So they are coming in and we are doing ok but we have a big capacity,, 5 bays and the break even for the shop is 2 bays minimum a day,
but thank god we are getting known well and it does look promising.
as for the problems you where asking about, we had and have loads. who hasent!!
i havent finished my bad product purchase uptill now.
Thanks for asking</HTML>
Prestige cars
In egypt, thats where i am(you where asking) a lot of detailing shops opened, at the begining they did good buisness but as they did't produce such a good detailing job, plus the shops where not well equipt,not well decorated....etc it gave the customer the impression that it was a bit cleaner then having it done at a gas station but the diffrence in price is not worth it so they never did it again or even recomend the service to anyone, that lead these shops to go down in price in order to make a living,
the prices kept falling between them,it went down to a $14 for a full detaining service!!!!
At the end to cut things short they closed down with only 2 or 3 left,
As for us,well we where able to give them the quality that they never seen before,specialy that egypt is a country where cars reach a condition in one or two years totaly unbeliveble!!
So they are coming in and we are doing ok but we have a big capacity,, 5 bays and the break even for the shop is 2 bays minimum a day,
but thank god we are getting known well and it does look promising.
as for the problems you where asking about, we had and have loads. who hasent!!
i havent finished my bad product purchase uptill now.
Thanks for asking</HTML>
Prestige cars
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.