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water filter
Posted by Phil Goode
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water filter October 30, 2003 04:46AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
<HTML>After reading a post or two here about filtered water i needed to share and get some help.
Does deionized water really make a difference in spots? Why? And will it do so in direct sun?
I have a soft water system and for rinsing..it .....sucks. In Florida we have hard water. So hard some people use it to build houses. (humor)</HTML>
Does deionized water really make a difference in spots? Why? And will it do so in direct sun?
I have a soft water system and for rinsing..it .....sucks. In Florida we have hard water. So hard some people use it to build houses. (humor)</HTML>
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Re: water filter November 01, 2003 04:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
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Re: water filter November 01, 2003 04:30AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
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Re: water filter November 03, 2003 06:51PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 103 |
<HTML>Deionized water means no ions (duh, right?). These ions are usually many salts but of interest are the salts that are in hard water.
Soft water contains salts like sodium chloride or potassium chloride, etc. that are very soluble in water and thus stay dissolved. They are also in low concentration
Hard water contains the above plus heavy metals like calcium and magnesium and complex anions like sulfate and carbonate which are very almost insoluble in water and are in critical concentration (meaning they are about to become insoluble).
So what? These barely soluble ions like to complex with each other and with other things that get into water like dirt and SOAP! They then form insoluble complexes that come out of the solution (called precipitation) and sit on your car as hard water spots. Because of their low solubility they do not readily dissolve, even in pure (deionized water or DI). They must be physically removed by buffing or dissolved in acidic solution (dangerous to finishes as acid etches).
Soft water and DI are used to prevent and reduce water spotting. Also rinse agents like Jet-Dry are chelators that bind up calcium and other heavy metals so they cannot form these complexes.
Again, post a reply if you desire clarification.</HTML>
Soft water contains salts like sodium chloride or potassium chloride, etc. that are very soluble in water and thus stay dissolved. They are also in low concentration
Hard water contains the above plus heavy metals like calcium and magnesium and complex anions like sulfate and carbonate which are very almost insoluble in water and are in critical concentration (meaning they are about to become insoluble).
So what? These barely soluble ions like to complex with each other and with other things that get into water like dirt and SOAP! They then form insoluble complexes that come out of the solution (called precipitation) and sit on your car as hard water spots. Because of their low solubility they do not readily dissolve, even in pure (deionized water or DI). They must be physically removed by buffing or dissolved in acidic solution (dangerous to finishes as acid etches).
Soft water and DI are used to prevent and reduce water spotting. Also rinse agents like Jet-Dry are chelators that bind up calcium and other heavy metals so they cannot form these complexes.
Again, post a reply if you desire clarification.</HTML>
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Re: water filter November 03, 2003 09:14PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
<HTML>I desire clarification....I think.
In my home we have a culligan water softener. I tried using it for rinsing cars thinking it would help with spoting and streaking. it does not. I mentioned this to my culligan man who said what I needed was DI water. Then I read here about ooe of us who uses this water and basically walks away from the car after rinse without spots or streaks. I have oreder a di system and it will arrive tomorrow. Is this wishful thinking?
We have hard water. It is water typical for central florida.</HTML>
In my home we have a culligan water softener. I tried using it for rinsing cars thinking it would help with spoting and streaking. it does not. I mentioned this to my culligan man who said what I needed was DI water. Then I read here about ooe of us who uses this water and basically walks away from the car after rinse without spots or streaks. I have oreder a di system and it will arrive tomorrow. Is this wishful thinking?
We have hard water. It is water typical for central florida.</HTML>
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Re: water filter November 03, 2003 11:05PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 45 |
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Re: water filter November 04, 2003 04:25AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
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Re: water filter November 04, 2003 06:12AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 894 |
<HTML>Heres the deal on DI, depending on the type of service you ordered, which means the type of tanks, you can get 1000 gallons of perfectly high quality water, or more gallons of water with slightly less quality of water, it depends on what kind of DI tanks you ordered. The filters I use are middle of the road quality which is still excellent, but I can get more water out of them before paying for an exchange. Basically, I do not expect to rinse a car and walk away. I expect to rinse a car, have my helper half ass dry and have an great finish with no water spots like the spots you see that go in the direction of your towel or chamois wipe.
A small amount of water left in a crevice is not a damaging problem anymore since it wont etch the paint.
Hard water may not be a problem for everyone, but for us, it is necessary, we do multiple cars at the same time and cannot worry about streaking or spoting. We also do maintenance cars that we cant afford to wax every two weeks because the hard water broke the wax down prematurley. The list can go on as to why we need DI water, but it is up to you to decide if it fits in your equation.
It took us a good 2 weeks before our water tank was cleared of all the minerals, after that we finally had good clean water. I hope this post helps someone! Take care!</HTML>
A small amount of water left in a crevice is not a damaging problem anymore since it wont etch the paint.
Hard water may not be a problem for everyone, but for us, it is necessary, we do multiple cars at the same time and cannot worry about streaking or spoting. We also do maintenance cars that we cant afford to wax every two weeks because the hard water broke the wax down prematurley. The list can go on as to why we need DI water, but it is up to you to decide if it fits in your equation.
It took us a good 2 weeks before our water tank was cleared of all the minerals, after that we finally had good clean water. I hope this post helps someone! Take care!</HTML>
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Re: water filter November 04, 2003 08:33PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
<HTML>Thanks Dan. I got my tanks today and will do 15000 gals +/- of water so the man says. My truck is white and is kept in good optical shape. I let it get dirty for the last week and washed today with the new DI water.
Before I give the results I must ad a few things for clarity; I am mobile and use a 110 gal tank which, for the last few months has had unfiltered water through it and my pressure washer. In the bottom of the tank was still about 5 gals of water before I added the new water. I added about 100 gals of DI water (also soft from our home system) anbd washed. The results are amazing! Now, it was a humid day here with little wind so the water seemd to just hang on. I am sure that the standing water did absorb some of the crap in our air here. The biggest of water puddles left on the truck did show a minimum amount of spoting. The glass had tiny spots as well but nowhere near the same as before.
The chrome up front was perfect. There was no need to clean windows again after the wash, I did do w monir wipe down though to remove the tiny spots.
All in all, based on this one test, I am pleased. If these results will improve after all of the crap water is rinsed, and they stay this way on the darker cars, I will cut off 15 to 20 minutes on a car. THAT is worth a few pennies a car.
I am grateful for your help Dan. Had you not mentioned it here, I woul still be left in the dark. My thanks.</HTML>
Before I give the results I must ad a few things for clarity; I am mobile and use a 110 gal tank which, for the last few months has had unfiltered water through it and my pressure washer. In the bottom of the tank was still about 5 gals of water before I added the new water. I added about 100 gals of DI water (also soft from our home system) anbd washed. The results are amazing! Now, it was a humid day here with little wind so the water seemd to just hang on. I am sure that the standing water did absorb some of the crap in our air here. The biggest of water puddles left on the truck did show a minimum amount of spoting. The glass had tiny spots as well but nowhere near the same as before.
The chrome up front was perfect. There was no need to clean windows again after the wash, I did do w monir wipe down though to remove the tiny spots.
All in all, based on this one test, I am pleased. If these results will improve after all of the crap water is rinsed, and they stay this way on the darker cars, I will cut off 15 to 20 minutes on a car. THAT is worth a few pennies a car.
I am grateful for your help Dan. Had you not mentioned it here, I woul still be left in the dark. My thanks.</HTML>
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Re: water filter November 05, 2003 03:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 894 |
<HTML>No problem, I cant imagine working without DI water so just wanted to spread the ease of work. It will take a while for the water tank and whatever length of hose you have to clear itself of all the built up scale. After that you will be very happy with the results. THis is just me, but I would clean the windows on the outside regardless of the DI water just to give it that polished look, but thats just me. Take care, glad it worked out for you!</HTML>
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Re: water filter November 06, 2003 05:16AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
<HTML>Today was the second car (rain) and it was black. Holy crap what a difference! I ended up half heartedly drying with an absorber (fear keeps me from just walking away just yet) and the water did not streak at all. No spots, no smudges, no smears and I did clean the glass but it was so easy! If math serves me then the cost is less than a penny a gallon and so far it has cut off about 10 to 15 minutes time. it also seems to clean better. I am sold. Dan, again, thanks for sharing. You have helped me solve several problems at the same time. It will also prove to pay for itself and be more profitable. THAT is the kind of information that really makes my life better.
You are right, the tank and hose are straing to clear out.</HTML>
You are right, the tank and hose are straing to clear out.</HTML>
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Re: water filter November 09, 2003 04:36AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1 |
<HTML> Those of you that have DiI tanks, do they come with a light on the top?
The Culligan tanks that I use have a light on top to tell me when the water is good. It takes about 5 min running water thru the tanks for the light to come on and let me know the water is clear of all contaminents. After a few days of no use, it takes about 20 minutes for the light to come on.
Rob Preston</HTML>
The Culligan tanks that I use have a light on top to tell me when the water is good. It takes about 5 min running water thru the tanks for the light to come on and let me know the water is clear of all contaminents. After a few days of no use, it takes about 20 minutes for the light to come on.
Rob Preston</HTML>
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Re: water filter November 09, 2003 02:41PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
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Re: water filter January 19, 2004 11:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 151 |
<HTML>ok, I know I am bringing up an old post, but was looking for some more info on this. I am in Arizona. We have very hard water here as well. Now I am thinking about getting one of these myself. How do they hook up to your mobil setup? How long do they last? how much do they cost? I looked on the site listed above, but there seems to be a few hundred :-)
Thanks again for some info on this and sorry about bringing up an old post!</HTML>
Thanks again for some info on this and sorry about bringing up an old post!</HTML>
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Re: water filter January 19, 2004 11:34PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 9 |
<HTML>DI water works the best of the best dude, what I do here in Michigan is trade off the DI water with a water company and clean their fleet of vehicles, so I get as much DI water as I need for my mobile service tank and at my shop. Hey guys this is my first time to the site, looks like we can trade tips here, so I'll talking with you guys.</HTML>
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Re: water filter January 20, 2004 02:03AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>To get true "spot-free" rinse water you need a reverse osmosis system. They are expensive to start with but not as expensive as a DI system to operate.
No one in the commercial business uses dionized water systems anymore because they are expensive to operate.
We sell large RO Systems for carwashes, but I know there are some smaller RO Systems that you can purchase that are used in houses.
What are you all willing to pay for an RO System? I can do some research with my vendors and see what is available.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
No one in the commercial business uses dionized water systems anymore because they are expensive to operate.
We sell large RO Systems for carwashes, but I know there are some smaller RO Systems that you can purchase that are used in houses.
What are you all willing to pay for an RO System? I can do some research with my vendors and see what is available.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: water filter January 20, 2004 03:11AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
<HTML>Bud, many people do use DI water. If these tanks ar installed AFTER a ro system, the DI tanks life is extended by almost ten times. This brings the total disoved solids to zero for under a penny per gallon. An RO system alone can NOT do that. The difference is critical in my area. ANY disolved solids will spot. In my case I can wash and walk away assuming I cleaned properly.
I have found units in my are that will easily do 300 gallons a day for under a grand. The trick is alos knowing what the replacement filters cost and one can only do this AFTER learning more about the water in his or her area. In my case, the TDS is over 300 before softening. The solids include iron.
I would pay up to 900 bucks for one That woulk do 300 gal a day. Keep in mind the then one needs a tank to store the water. RO units are verly slow so you can not filter the water as you use it. It can only be "cleaned" at the rate of the gallons per day divided by the hours or minutes. So about a 200 gallon tank plus pressure system would be required.
I have done my research, Of you need further clarification letme know,</HTML>
I have found units in my are that will easily do 300 gallons a day for under a grand. The trick is alos knowing what the replacement filters cost and one can only do this AFTER learning more about the water in his or her area. In my case, the TDS is over 300 before softening. The solids include iron.
I would pay up to 900 bucks for one That woulk do 300 gal a day. Keep in mind the then one needs a tank to store the water. RO units are verly slow so you can not filter the water as you use it. It can only be "cleaned" at the rate of the gallons per day divided by the hours or minutes. So about a 200 gallon tank plus pressure system would be required.
I have done my research, Of you need further clarification letme know,</HTML>
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Re: water filter January 20, 2004 03:41AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 382 |
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Re: water filter January 20, 2004 07:02AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>P.
hil:
You seem to have done some research on this subject.
All I know is what the company from whom I buy my RO Systems tells me and that is that no one in the carwash industry uses DI systems, they all use RO Systems for their spot free rinse arches in the carwashes where there is hard water.
I put a carwash in Orlando and they purchased only a RO system no DI.
I certainly am not an expert on the subject of RO vs DI, but all that I hear about them is that in carwash industry they use RO Systems.
Thanks for the input.
By the way it was nice to meet you and your family, cute boy Caleb. Looks like his mother however, and not his dad.
Too bad you did not buy the Carpet PLUS System that was a good bargain.
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
hil:
You seem to have done some research on this subject.
All I know is what the company from whom I buy my RO Systems tells me and that is that no one in the carwash industry uses DI systems, they all use RO Systems for their spot free rinse arches in the carwashes where there is hard water.
I put a carwash in Orlando and they purchased only a RO system no DI.
I certainly am not an expert on the subject of RO vs DI, but all that I hear about them is that in carwash industry they use RO Systems.
Thanks for the input.
By the way it was nice to meet you and your family, cute boy Caleb. Looks like his mother however, and not his dad.
Too bad you did not buy the Carpet PLUS System that was a good bargain.
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: water filter January 20, 2004 12:41PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 435 |
<HTML>Yeah, the little guy us cute huh? Not mine however.
The DI systme is expensive! Somewhere around 10 cents a gallon! But if an RO system is in front of the di, the di can do way more water. So, in tandem with the ro the price goes down and the water qaulity goe up. Please look to your manufacturers for a smaller ro system. Most detail guys mobile or not could use one around three hundred gallons a day. I can explain how to set everything up if you can get a decent source for the system and membraines.
It was nice to meet you as well. Turns out I will be going another direction soon so the money saved for your dye system will be put to good use there. I still need a reclaim mat.</HTML>
The DI systme is expensive! Somewhere around 10 cents a gallon! But if an RO system is in front of the di, the di can do way more water. So, in tandem with the ro the price goes down and the water qaulity goe up. Please look to your manufacturers for a smaller ro system. Most detail guys mobile or not could use one around three hundred gallons a day. I can explain how to set everything up if you can get a decent source for the system and membraines.
It was nice to meet you as well. Turns out I will be going another direction soon so the money saved for your dye system will be put to good use there. I still need a reclaim mat.</HTML>
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Re: water filter January 20, 2004 10:30PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 9 |
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Re: water filter January 21, 2004 08:09AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
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