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Which Wax Works Best
Posted by SoFresh&SoClean
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 13, 2004 10:19PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 32 |
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 14, 2004 12:11AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>For the record, #845 Collinite Wax was 8th in percentage of gloss increase as measure by a Glossometer out of 25 products tested, registering a 27.4% increase. The best registered a 32.8% increase in gloss.
After 12 washes this same product was 25th out of 25, registering a 7.14% decrease in gloss, the 24th product registered a 4.92% decrease.
In terms of saltwater corrosion resistence it tied for 8th spot with with four other products.
The three best in this catagory were Zaino Bros; 885 Fleetwax and DIAMOND PLUS.
Thought you would be interested
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
After 12 washes this same product was 25th out of 25, registering a 7.14% decrease in gloss, the 24th product registered a 4.92% decrease.
In terms of saltwater corrosion resistence it tied for 8th spot with with four other products.
The three best in this catagory were Zaino Bros; 885 Fleetwax and DIAMOND PLUS.
Thought you would be interested
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 14, 2004 12:46AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 14, 2004 01:14AM |
<HTML>Steve I dont think you should be posting about your competiters by name on this forum,second since you said nothing that made any of us any smarter or made our jobs easier .....please keep this in mind when posting..I hope everyone agrees...next thing you know a bunch of post by competiters that add up to nothing!My time to share is limited!!!!</HTML>
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 15, 2004 12:27PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10 |
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 15, 2004 07:26PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 201 |
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 15, 2004 08:21PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Lawrence:
Thanks for the posting. I am not saying that Collinite is a bad product just where it came out on the testing.
What detailers have to realize is that waxes/sealants that have a high shine are often not durable and this has to do with the ingredients. Those that create high shine are usually not durable. The ingredients that add to durabilty do not leave a high shine.
A good chemist can work to balance these things and come up with a product that is durable and still leaves a good shine.
However, many companies just commission their chemists to develop the product that users want. Most detailers judge a product based on the shine it leaves since they really have no way of knowing its durablity.
Some think that beading water is a sign of durablity. In fact, water beading is not a sign that there is protection on the car.
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
Thanks for the posting. I am not saying that Collinite is a bad product just where it came out on the testing.
What detailers have to realize is that waxes/sealants that have a high shine are often not durable and this has to do with the ingredients. Those that create high shine are usually not durable. The ingredients that add to durabilty do not leave a high shine.
A good chemist can work to balance these things and come up with a product that is durable and still leaves a good shine.
However, many companies just commission their chemists to develop the product that users want. Most detailers judge a product based on the shine it leaves since they really have no way of knowing its durablity.
Some think that beading water is a sign of durablity. In fact, water beading is not a sign that there is protection on the car.
Regards
Bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 15, 2004 10:12PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>Bud,
Some think that beading water is a sign of durablity. In fact, water beading is not a sign that there is protection on the car.
In your professional opinion, what would be a "sign" that there is protection on the car?</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
Some think that beading water is a sign of durablity. In fact, water beading is not a sign that there is protection on the car.
In your professional opinion, what would be a "sign" that there is protection on the car?</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 15, 2004 10:50PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 16, 2004 12:10AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 16, 2004 12:20AM |
<HTML>There are products that actually causes water to run off and not bead,also in my experience a good "small" water beads just means the paint is clean.There is no way to technically tell a car has protection unless you just did it or seen it done.The amount that protects the car is so minut it wouldnt register on a gage ,thats my understanding.Im up for more info if anybody can add to it...thanks in advance!</HTML>
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 16, 2004 12:21AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>This is a good mystery that hopefully Ron Ketcham can clear up for us.
The protection indicator I tend to go by is the size of the water beads. When I polish/seal a car and rerinse, the water beads are so small, maybe the size of a half a pea. Much dramatic improvement than the half dollar bead that was present after washing the car. Also after protection, the water bead tends to have a small fog around it. Anyone ever see that?
Jim, you get that raise?? :-)</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
The protection indicator I tend to go by is the size of the water beads. When I polish/seal a car and rerinse, the water beads are so small, maybe the size of a half a pea. Much dramatic improvement than the half dollar bead that was present after washing the car. Also after protection, the water bead tends to have a small fog around it. Anyone ever see that?
Jim, you get that raise?? :-)</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Which Wax Works Best April 16, 2004 12:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 16, 2004 04:19AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>There is NO WAY a detailer using a wax can determine how long it protects.
The only way is to review a test of numerous products given the same test procedure and see how it turns out.
If a test measures shine; shine after washing and then resistence to corrosion you have a reasonably good guage of where a product stands in terms of protection.
Shine, of course, is much easier to determine because you can see it, but protection is not determinable by the eye.
Unfortunately beading is not the answer although detailers for a long time have assumed this.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
The only way is to review a test of numerous products given the same test procedure and see how it turns out.
If a test measures shine; shine after washing and then resistence to corrosion you have a reasonably good guage of where a product stands in terms of protection.
Shine, of course, is much easier to determine because you can see it, but protection is not determinable by the eye.
Unfortunately beading is not the answer although detailers for a long time have assumed this.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 16, 2004 01:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 16, 2004 07:20PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 16, 2004 09:25PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>Guy's
Here is my "take" on beading...
Water beads on a new car because it is "smooth", like a glass, countertop, etc.
If you apply a wax or sealant to a surface that is sheeting before application and now the surface beads, it is because of the wax/sealant..., correct?
Now, when the beading has stopped, it is because the produce that was "causing" the beads is now no longer on the surface, so it is back to sheeting.
There is NO "magic potion" that knows..., Hey! it is two weeks now..., lets start sheeting
When the sheeting reappears, the protection is gone...
If the surface was beading with no protection, it is because of the slick surface, which in that case, would be VERY hard to tell when the protection stops.
For testing your products, do not start with a polished/slick, already beading surface, use a surface that is NOT beading and slick..., now you will know the "real results" of the product you are using.
Try testing in this manner and let us know your results</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
Here is my "take" on beading...
Water beads on a new car because it is "smooth", like a glass, countertop, etc.
If you apply a wax or sealant to a surface that is sheeting before application and now the surface beads, it is because of the wax/sealant..., correct?
Now, when the beading has stopped, it is because the produce that was "causing" the beads is now no longer on the surface, so it is back to sheeting.
There is NO "magic potion" that knows..., Hey! it is two weeks now..., lets start sheeting
When the sheeting reappears, the protection is gone...
If the surface was beading with no protection, it is because of the slick surface, which in that case, would be VERY hard to tell when the protection stops.
For testing your products, do not start with a polished/slick, already beading surface, use a surface that is NOT beading and slick..., now you will know the "real results" of the product you are using.
Try testing in this manner and let us know your results
</HTML>"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 16, 2004 10:01PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Water beads on a paint surface if there is oil of any kind on the surface. If you rub the car with compound water will bead; if you rub it with a polish that has no wax it will bead; it you apply wax it will bead.
If you rub the car down with mineral spirits or kerosene to clean it as many old folks do, the water will bead.
So you see beading does not mean anything other than there is some oily substance on the finish.
bud A</HTML>
buda
If you rub the car down with mineral spirits or kerosene to clean it as many old folks do, the water will bead.
So you see beading does not mean anything other than there is some oily substance on the finish.
bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 16, 2004 10:01PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Water beads on a paint surface if there is oil of any kind on the surface. If you rub the car with compound water will bead; if you rub it with a polish that has no wax it will bead; it you apply wax it will bead.
If you rub the car down with mineral spirits or kerosene to clean it as many old folks do, the water will bead.
So you see beading does not mean anything other than there is some oily substance on the finish.
bud A</HTML>
buda
If you rub the car down with mineral spirits or kerosene to clean it as many old folks do, the water will bead.
So you see beading does not mean anything other than there is some oily substance on the finish.
bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 16, 2004 10:32PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>Bud,
Please re-read my post.
The surface in question is sheeting, you apply wax/sealant, it is now beading, when the beading stops, the protection is gone...,
No mention of rubbing down with oil, silicone, kerosene, etc, etc...
Lots of things bead, that is not the point...,
the point is, if it sheets before the wax is applied, it then beads when the wax is applied, what has caused the beading?
When the beading has stopped, what is no longer on the surface?
We are speaking of "testing" the protection of a product with one product at a time.
Sure, add oil, kerosene, etc into the equasion and the test is now "flawed".</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
Please re-read my post.
The surface in question is sheeting, you apply wax/sealant, it is now beading, when the beading stops, the protection is gone...,
No mention of rubbing down with oil, silicone, kerosene, etc, etc...
Lots of things bead, that is not the point...,
the point is, if it sheets before the wax is applied, it then beads when the wax is applied, what has caused the beading?
When the beading has stopped, what is no longer on the surface?
We are speaking of "testing" the protection of a product with one product at a time.
Sure, add oil, kerosene, etc into the equasion and the test is now "flawed".</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 17, 2004 12:05AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 17, 2004 12:45AM |
<HTML>That was the point of my post,I have used hundreds of products that have caused beading or sheeting ,so there is no way to tell...Im opening a new retail shop 2 miles from where Im now that was a clean up shop for 19 years but the last 5 years it has had 2 business's and they failed even thou they were swamped ever time I stopped by or rode by.This is going to be a gold mine now that I have aquired the building 40 ft wide by 60 long and roll up door at each end on a street thats 4 miles from the worlds largest furniture market and 1/2 mile from main street and only 550 a month ...all brick and in an industrial furniture area.Best part is a trim shop rents the other side same dimensions for 40 years and the other side of parking lot is a convienance store....customers every where you look ...Im going to be richhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!I hope !!!!!!!</HTML>
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 17, 2004 04:55AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 382 |
<HTML>Go, Will, Go!!! Sounds like a sweet set up!!! Can the trim shop be a referral source for you? If so, get in good with those guys!!! Start looking around for other businesses in the area where you can refer biz to each other. Once you get a solid referral network going, you can have business streaming in the door!!!</HTML>
Shine On!
Rod Wesley
Touch Up 'N' Go!
Auto & Marine Appearance Center
We take your car from Rough to Buff!
Visit our website at: www.touchupngo.com
Shine On!
Rod Wesley
Touch Up 'N' Go!
Auto & Marine Appearance Center
We take your car from Rough to Buff!
Visit our website at: www.touchupngo.com
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 30, 2004 12:57PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 10 |
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION April 30, 2004 11:05PM |
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION May 02, 2004 12:40AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION May 02, 2004 07:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: Which Wax OFFERS THE BEST PROTECTION May 02, 2004 01:28PM |
<HTML>WAX: Meg #16 / Ardex Flint wax / One grand
SEALANT: Meg #20 / PB EX-P / Klasse AIO / Men FMJ
These are the products that I keep coming back to when I need good protection in each category or a GOOD topper
Great advice given I have alot to tell my customers
Who the hell is this STEVE JOY person ANYONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</HTML>
SEALANT: Meg #20 / PB EX-P / Klasse AIO / Men FMJ
These are the products that I keep coming back to when I need good protection in each category or a GOOD topper
Great advice given I have alot to tell my customers
Who the hell is this STEVE JOY person ANYONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</HTML>
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BEST SEALANT/WAX - Test Results May 02, 2004 07:50PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>According to the Comparative Study of Automotive Sealants & Waxes Study (25 products) we had a laboratory conduct for us based on three areas:
1. Increase in shine (before & after)
2. Shine retention (after 12 washings)
3. Resistence to salt water corrosion
The top 5 in each catagory are as follows:
1. Klasse 32.8% increase in gloss
2. TST 5000 32.6% increase in gloss
3. Valuguard 32.0% increase in gloss
4. 2180 AS Ultra 31.2% increase in gloss
5. DIAMOND PLUS 30.9% increase in gloss
AFTER 12 WASHINGS, GLOSS RETENTION
1. Zymol Cleaner 5.16% increase in gloss
2. Aerospace 1.80% increase in gloss
3. DIAMOND PLUS 0.01% decrease in gloss
4. Gold Edition 0.11% decrease in gloss
5. American Shine 0.16% decrease in gloss
CORROSION RESISTENCE TO SALT WATER
1. DIAMOND PLUS
1. Zaino Bros
1. 885 Fleetwax
2. Ultracoat
2. Zymol Carbon
Klasse was #1 in the area of gloss; #8 after 12 washings & 21 in corrosion resistence
Meguiar's High Tech was 25th in gloss increase (5.5%); #15 in gloss retention after 12 washings and #14th in resistence to salt water corrosion.
What this test show is what all chemists know, that products are developed based on what the sales department tells them they want:
a. Shine & gloss
b. Resistence to soaps
c. Corrosion resistence
d. Price
e. All of the above, etc.
You can see clearly which products favor one over the other and where some are close in all areas.
Such tests are the only true way for a detailer to really know how a product performs, any other way is truly subjective.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
1. Increase in shine (before & after)
2. Shine retention (after 12 washings)
3. Resistence to salt water corrosion
The top 5 in each catagory are as follows:
1. Klasse 32.8% increase in gloss
2. TST 5000 32.6% increase in gloss
3. Valuguard 32.0% increase in gloss
4. 2180 AS Ultra 31.2% increase in gloss
5. DIAMOND PLUS 30.9% increase in gloss
AFTER 12 WASHINGS, GLOSS RETENTION
1. Zymol Cleaner 5.16% increase in gloss
2. Aerospace 1.80% increase in gloss
3. DIAMOND PLUS 0.01% decrease in gloss
4. Gold Edition 0.11% decrease in gloss
5. American Shine 0.16% decrease in gloss
CORROSION RESISTENCE TO SALT WATER
1. DIAMOND PLUS
1. Zaino Bros
1. 885 Fleetwax
2. Ultracoat
2. Zymol Carbon
Klasse was #1 in the area of gloss; #8 after 12 washings & 21 in corrosion resistence
Meguiar's High Tech was 25th in gloss increase (5.5%); #15 in gloss retention after 12 washings and #14th in resistence to salt water corrosion.
What this test show is what all chemists know, that products are developed based on what the sales department tells them they want:
a. Shine & gloss
b. Resistence to soaps
c. Corrosion resistence
d. Price
e. All of the above, etc.
You can see clearly which products favor one over the other and where some are close in all areas.
Such tests are the only true way for a detailer to really know how a product performs, any other way is truly subjective.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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