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Occupational License nightmare
Posted by BG
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Occupational License nightmare June 07, 2004 09:08PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 23 |
<HTML>I have decided to become licensed and insured and its not as easy as one may think at least in South Florida...I started out by going to city hall where I live. That was a joke they told me they wouldn't issue me a license because they don't allow mobile auto detailing. I asked for city codes or ordinances that specify that and they couldn't give me any answer other than its not allowed. I told them I was interested in possibly setting up a location at a local gas station and forget about it thats out of the question too unless all work is going to be done within an actual enclosed building. I said what if the vehicle is run through the car wash and when it comes out the other end it is then detailed,vacuumed and etc. yeah right....I still got a NO......I then proceeded to the next city hall and right away I was told there is no Mobile Detailing allowed or license for it. At this point I was like how can this be. When im out I see tons of mobile detailers. I asked why isn't it allowed and I was told because im telling you. I wasn't taking that for an answer especially since she was getting rude for no reason. I wanted to know what the city ordinance was and I wasn't leaving until she showed it to me in writing. She rolled her eyes and walked away to speak to someone else who really didn't have a clue. Then she spoke to another gentlemen who told her that if I have an occupational license it wouldn't be a problem and it's allowed...SURPRISE SUPRISE SUPRISE...but they wont issue me an occupational license because I dont live in their city.That I need to obtain one form the cityin which I live in. Remember the one that wont give me one to begin with....I then went to a third city hall just to see what they say and I was told that they dont allow mobile detailing when I asked why she wasn't sure and needed to speak with her supervisor.....She came back with the city ordinance which states
" Business not to be in violation of zoning regulation"
Each applicant for an occupational license shall definitely state and set out the exact location at which such business shall be operated. Before issuing a license, it shall be the duty of code enforcement division to check the zoning applicable to such listed place of business and if the applicable zoning regulations do not permit the conduct of business at such intended business location, the code enforcement shall refuse to issue the license for a business in a prohibited zone unless the applicant can show a vested right for a non-conforming use or variance permit. In such instances, the particular exception must be endorsed upon the license.
To me, this means anybody that is operating a business from any fixed location that sends out a carpet guy, exterminator, landscaper, etc., why should it be any different for us? I asked about water recovery laws, and nobody had a clue as to what I was talking about, so that's not the issue...
ANY ADVICE on what to do in this matter/situation would be greatly appreciated....
Thanks,
Bobby
KEEP IT CLEAN</HTML>
" Business not to be in violation of zoning regulation"
Each applicant for an occupational license shall definitely state and set out the exact location at which such business shall be operated. Before issuing a license, it shall be the duty of code enforcement division to check the zoning applicable to such listed place of business and if the applicable zoning regulations do not permit the conduct of business at such intended business location, the code enforcement shall refuse to issue the license for a business in a prohibited zone unless the applicant can show a vested right for a non-conforming use or variance permit. In such instances, the particular exception must be endorsed upon the license.
To me, this means anybody that is operating a business from any fixed location that sends out a carpet guy, exterminator, landscaper, etc., why should it be any different for us? I asked about water recovery laws, and nobody had a clue as to what I was talking about, so that's not the issue...
ANY ADVICE on what to do in this matter/situation would be greatly appreciated....
Thanks,
Bobby
KEEP IT CLEAN</HTML>
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 07, 2004 09:26PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Bobby,
You did the right thing -- putting your foot down and demanding to see the ordinances. 6 out of 10 state gov't workers are "dumb, stupid, lazy, high school drop outs who leave at 4:30pm on the dot" and are not usually friendly. Well, that's how they are in Trenton, NJ. However, I do know a great few of state workers that are excellent people who do care. Looks like you got one of the 6.
They can't deny you. Look at landscapers, construction workers, powerwashers, etc. You have a right to free enterprise and as long as you collect your wastewater then you should be able to get a license with no problem. Sounds like your civil rights are being violated. Look into it more deeply.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
You did the right thing -- putting your foot down and demanding to see the ordinances. 6 out of 10 state gov't workers are "dumb, stupid, lazy, high school drop outs who leave at 4:30pm on the dot" and are not usually friendly. Well, that's how they are in Trenton, NJ. However, I do know a great few of state workers that are excellent people who do care. Looks like you got one of the 6.
They can't deny you. Look at landscapers, construction workers, powerwashers, etc. You have a right to free enterprise and as long as you collect your wastewater then you should be able to get a license with no problem. Sounds like your civil rights are being violated. Look into it more deeply.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 07, 2004 09:54PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>Like "they" say "you can't fight city hall" they always win,one way or another...if they don't want you operating in their town or county,you won't.You need to gain support from your local city council members,attend some meetings and raise the issue(professionally and act respectful to them), backed up by facts and research from surrounding cities who do allow mobile operators....gain enough support from the majority of members and they will be forced to change their city policy.South Florida has alot of "good ole boys" networking going on(I lived in Florida for awile) , if your not one of them or supported by them.....forget about it, they will run you out of town...right or wrong....they will figure away to do it,trust me.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 03:18AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
<HTML>Bobby, I had a similar problem with the local authorities here, trying to find out exactly what was required to comply with local regulations.
I suggest going to you your city or county web site and looking through the ordinance or code online . I find it hard to believe that they can deny you the right to work simply because you are mobile.
I love researching this kind of stuff, so if you want to e-mail me which city you are in I'll look in to it for you. Have to give me a couple of days though.
Jim.</HTML>
I suggest going to you your city or county web site and looking through the ordinance or code online . I find it hard to believe that they can deny you the right to work simply because you are mobile.
I love researching this kind of stuff, so if you want to e-mail me which city you are in I'll look in to it for you. Have to give me a couple of days though.
Jim.</HTML>
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 03:59AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 23 |
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 04:46AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 24 |
<HTML>BG;
I am also having the same problems in my town. The first thing you need to do is contact your district rep in your city and make an appointment to see him or her to discuss the issue. That is what I have done and seems like we are getting somewhere with it.
Try not to make an enemies over at city hall work with your rep so that he can present it to city council, after all that is what he is paid for to represent the needs or wants from people in his district.
Some of these people do not even understand that the ice cream truck is a mobile service the Sears repair tech, washer & dryer repair man, are all mobile services.</HTML>
A.T.
I am also having the same problems in my town. The first thing you need to do is contact your district rep in your city and make an appointment to see him or her to discuss the issue. That is what I have done and seems like we are getting somewhere with it.
Try not to make an enemies over at city hall work with your rep so that he can present it to city council, after all that is what he is paid for to represent the needs or wants from people in his district.
Some of these people do not even understand that the ice cream truck is a mobile service the Sears repair tech, washer & dryer repair man, are all mobile services.</HTML>
A.T.
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 04:48AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 05:48AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 866 |
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 05:27PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>What I would suggest is that you treat people like people. Far too many of us take the attitude that all government employees are some type of monsters, "out to get us."
If you take the time to read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" you will learn the techniques to deal with all people in all situations.
I have a cousin that is amazing in his dealings with government. The normal time to get a building permit approved for an automatic carwash is normally about 60 to 90 days, or more.
He was able to get a building permit in 3 weeks.
How?
By treating the list of people responsible for approving all the different elements of the application with respect. I listened to him on the phone with these people and they fell all over him to help.
The first thing to do is not to respond to hostility with hostility. If you are not getting anywhere with the person then regroup and come at the situation from a different angle.
From what I know about these types issues I would call the city department and simply ask the process to obtain a "business license." Do not reveal what type of business just ask what you need to do to apply for a "business license." If they ask what type simply say, I just need to know the process to apply for a license as I have a couple of alternatives and just want to know the process.
If you continue to run into roadblocks and do not have the ability to get by those putting up the roadblocks make a call to the Mayor's office and ask to talk with him/her or the assistant and nicely explain your problem. That usually gets some positive results.
However, if you take the attitude that "everyone is a jerk in governement and out to get you" you will never get anywhere.
As the old clique states: "You attract bears with honey than you do with vinegar."
Just some well intentioned thoughts
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
If you take the time to read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" you will learn the techniques to deal with all people in all situations.
I have a cousin that is amazing in his dealings with government. The normal time to get a building permit approved for an automatic carwash is normally about 60 to 90 days, or more.
He was able to get a building permit in 3 weeks.
How?
By treating the list of people responsible for approving all the different elements of the application with respect. I listened to him on the phone with these people and they fell all over him to help.
The first thing to do is not to respond to hostility with hostility. If you are not getting anywhere with the person then regroup and come at the situation from a different angle.
From what I know about these types issues I would call the city department and simply ask the process to obtain a "business license." Do not reveal what type of business just ask what you need to do to apply for a "business license." If they ask what type simply say, I just need to know the process to apply for a license as I have a couple of alternatives and just want to know the process.
If you continue to run into roadblocks and do not have the ability to get by those putting up the roadblocks make a call to the Mayor's office and ask to talk with him/her or the assistant and nicely explain your problem. That usually gets some positive results.
However, if you take the attitude that "everyone is a jerk in governement and out to get you" you will never get anywhere.
As the old clique states: "You attract bears with honey than you do with vinegar."
Just some well intentioned thoughts
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 05:42PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Isn't it "you attract more bees with honey than you do with vinegar?" :-)
Notice how I said 6 out of 10. Didn't say they were all bad. After my dealings with 10 gov't officials here, 6 were stupid -- that's where I got the number.
After you "kill them with kindness" I found "the squeaky wheel gets the oil."</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
Notice how I said 6 out of 10. Didn't say they were all bad. After my dealings with 10 gov't officials here, 6 were stupid -- that's where I got the number.
After you "kill them with kindness" I found "the squeaky wheel gets the oil."</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 08:28PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 23 |
<HTML>I have been very pleasant with everyone I have spoken with thus far..They have what I need so of course Im going to be polite. However Im not going to take because I said you cant as an answer. The way they would like to be respected so would I. When someone goes to city hall to apply for a occupational license and they're denied. They should be able to see the ordinance in which does not allow them to do business within that city. All I want to know is if its legal and allowed and if not why. I dont want someone to say we dont allow and thats that. I would much rather them take the time to point out the ordinance and reasons as I need to know and understand their laws to the fullest extent...</HTML>
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 10:20PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>With all do respect to you....It's not their job to explain WHY?( for the city hall / license clerk or supervisor) OR educate you on the reasons or specifics of the laws & regulations/ordinance on the books....their job is to just process the paper work & issue the license or deny the license based on the information they request from you and then enforce the laws/regulations/ ordinance,the information(reasons) you want from them is a matter of public record that requires YOU to do the research for specific reasons for the law/ previous case history of regulation/ ordinance on the specifics that pertain to your request for a licence to operate a specific type of bussiness in the city limits.If your unable to obtain the info needed from them by just asking them "nicely" on your own while your there, then you research it yourself or you need to hire somebody(lawyer) or a professional to research it for you, don't expect them to tell you why it a ordinance? or reserch it for you.... expect only just an YES or NO to the issuance of the proper licence to do business in the city from them,that all they are required to provide to you,not explantions or reasons it affects you or your business.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 10:30PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>BG,
You are absolutely right. "Because I said you can't" is not an answer and they should treat you with respect. If you kill then with kindness and they don't respect that, then you have the right to demand an answer -- you have the right no matter what.
Chris, sorry but that is totally wrong. It is their job to explain why or why not he can't perform a business. That's what they get paid for, to help out the public, deal with public records and such. If the lady couldn't help, she must get someone who can. If she's just a receptionist or secretary, she wouldn't be at the front counter -- she'd be behind a desk do her duties. Who ever is at the front counter, must provide information regarding any municipal matter.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
You are absolutely right. "Because I said you can't" is not an answer and they should treat you with respect. If you kill then with kindness and they don't respect that, then you have the right to demand an answer -- you have the right no matter what.
Chris, sorry but that is totally wrong. It is their job to explain why or why not he can't perform a business. That's what they get paid for, to help out the public, deal with public records and such. If the lady couldn't help, she must get someone who can. If she's just a receptionist or secretary, she wouldn't be at the front counter -- she'd be behind a desk do her duties. Who ever is at the front counter, must provide information regarding any municipal matter.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 11:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>I disagree with you.....IT'S NOT THERE JOB to educate you,only process your application(and give a yes or no).I agree they should BE NICE & treat you with respect and answer your questions if they can & most do,in my experience with them,but SOME won't and are'nt nice to anybody no matter how nice you are to them. MOST city department heads, if asked specific questions,will answer them, IF they have the time AND willing to explain specific city ordinances to you, BUT their not required by law to explain the reasons for the ordinance or educate you on city laws/policy OR ordinances ...there job is to ONLY to process the application for the license....it's your responsibility to research the reasons and specifics for the ordinance/laws that pertain to your request & application for a license.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 11:39PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 499 |
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 08, 2004 11:51PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 23 |
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 09, 2004 12:04AM |
<HTML>Maybe you should try applying to Tamarac Business Licenses OnLine at:
[e-gov.tamarac.org]
Please note there is a license classification for Automobile Detailing.
Here's a copy of the Tamarac FL Business Information page at:
[www.tamarac.org]
Obtaining an Occupational License
The City of Tamarac invites you to do business in our city. We offer expedited permitting, OCC. License issuances, Economic Development Programs, License Guides and a Builder’s Guide. We are here to assist you in opening your business and doing what we can to insure your success.
All businesses, either commercial or residential, are required to be licensed by the City. Applications may be obtained in the Community Development Department, Room 206. A Certificate of Occupancy is issued for commercial businesses and a Fire Safety Inspection is conducted for residential businesses. In both cases, zoning approval is necessary.
Every new business needs:
Zoning approval-Special Exception may be required for certain types of businesses
• Legal description of business address
• Drivers license or form of picture identification
• Copy of garbage contract may be required for certain types of businesses
• Two (2) dimensional copies of the floor plan of the bay(s) or suite(s) you will be occupying stamped by the Department of Natural Resources, 218 S.W. 1st Avenue, Ft. Lauderdale
• Broward County Occupational License must be obtained after the issuance of the City of Tamarac license. This may be done at 115 S. Andrews Avenue, Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. (954) 468-3480
• If you have a fictitious name, it must be registered with the Department of State and advertised in a local newspaper. A copy will be required with the application.
• If your business is a corporation, a copy of the corporate document will be required with the application.
In addition to the above, residential businesses require:
Fire Safety Inspection- a residential smoke detector and service tag is required for the inspection
Business applicatant must live in residence
The Occupational License Staff will mail the license to you after all approvals and signatures have been obtained, normally within three to five working days.
The Occupational License Staff is dedicated to helping you obtain your license in a timely and friendly manner. Please call (954) 724-1280 for further information.</HTML>
[e-gov.tamarac.org]
Please note there is a license classification for Automobile Detailing.
Here's a copy of the Tamarac FL Business Information page at:
[www.tamarac.org]
Obtaining an Occupational License
The City of Tamarac invites you to do business in our city. We offer expedited permitting, OCC. License issuances, Economic Development Programs, License Guides and a Builder’s Guide. We are here to assist you in opening your business and doing what we can to insure your success.
All businesses, either commercial or residential, are required to be licensed by the City. Applications may be obtained in the Community Development Department, Room 206. A Certificate of Occupancy is issued for commercial businesses and a Fire Safety Inspection is conducted for residential businesses. In both cases, zoning approval is necessary.
Every new business needs:
Zoning approval-Special Exception may be required for certain types of businesses
• Legal description of business address
• Drivers license or form of picture identification
• Copy of garbage contract may be required for certain types of businesses
• Two (2) dimensional copies of the floor plan of the bay(s) or suite(s) you will be occupying stamped by the Department of Natural Resources, 218 S.W. 1st Avenue, Ft. Lauderdale
• Broward County Occupational License must be obtained after the issuance of the City of Tamarac license. This may be done at 115 S. Andrews Avenue, Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. (954) 468-3480
• If you have a fictitious name, it must be registered with the Department of State and advertised in a local newspaper. A copy will be required with the application.
• If your business is a corporation, a copy of the corporate document will be required with the application.
In addition to the above, residential businesses require:
Fire Safety Inspection- a residential smoke detector and service tag is required for the inspection
Business applicatant must live in residence
The Occupational License Staff will mail the license to you after all approvals and signatures have been obtained, normally within three to five working days.
The Occupational License Staff is dedicated to helping you obtain your license in a timely and friendly manner. Please call (954) 724-1280 for further information.</HTML>
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 09, 2004 12:36AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 09, 2004 12:46AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Frank, you're the man.
BG, That's why you have to love this forum. A lot of us turn these threads into a soap opera but we still love each other. Watching Chris get all worked up is worth it. Just busting your stones Chris.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
BG, That's why you have to love this forum. A lot of us turn these threads into a soap opera but we still love each other. Watching Chris get all worked up is worth it. Just busting your stones Chris.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 09, 2004 01:30AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>Trust me i'm NOT getting worked up about this,just enjoying a little friendly debate with this topic.
By the way....... the city of Tamarac website for occupational licensing listing refered to here in a previous post is for a (fixed location) auto detailing business, not a MOBILE auto detailing operation.This listing would not apply to MOBILE detailing operators.
The surrounding town of Mellburne FL. has website also, and a occupational license listing for a MOBILE auto detailing operator(45a).This is the occupational listing license YOU NEED for the type of business you wish to operate.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
By the way....... the city of Tamarac website for occupational licensing listing refered to here in a previous post is for a (fixed location) auto detailing business, not a MOBILE auto detailing operation.This listing would not apply to MOBILE detailing operators.
The surrounding town of Mellburne FL. has website also, and a occupational license listing for a MOBILE auto detailing operator(45a).This is the occupational listing license YOU NEED for the type of business you wish to operate.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 09, 2004 01:34AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
<HTML>BG, at least you are getting your monies worth .
So far AT and Frank have provided you with great information. I went to the Tamarac web site that Frank posted above this morning and had a quick look through.
I did look for other mobile deailers on the yellow pages , and then checked to see if he had a licence on the Tamarac search page but couldnt find one. You could try calling a few other detailers and see what they are doing, see if they have licences and how they got them .
Jim.</HTML>
So far AT and Frank have provided you with great information. I went to the Tamarac web site that Frank posted above this morning and had a quick look through.
I did look for other mobile deailers on the yellow pages , and then checked to see if he had a licence on the Tamarac search page but couldnt find one. You could try calling a few other detailers and see what they are doing, see if they have licences and how they got them .
Jim.</HTML>
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 09, 2004 02:50AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 23 |
<HTML>Thanks for all the support and help guys. Frank I went to the city of tamarac room 206 which you listed and thats when I was told they don't allow mobile detailers in their city. I also tried to apply for the license online just for the hell of it and it wont allow you to.....I will try a few other detailers as mentioned and see what they have done to obtain a license, but even with a license they will still fine me in 2 of the three I checked out</HTML>
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 09, 2004 09:35AM |
<HTML>John P. Topper,
The homepage for the City of Fort Myers Florida is located at:
[www.cityftmyers.com];
The homepage for the City of Fort Myers Florida is located at:
[www.cityftmyers.com];
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 09, 2004 04:29PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 112 |
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 09, 2004 05:21PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 499 |
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 09, 2004 06:43PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>How about just up the coast from Fort Myers....did you ever visit there ? Like Siesta Key,Longboat Key,Holmes Beach....now these are NICE places & always voted some of the best beachs on the west coast & where I lived after high school in mid 80's...I miss the waking up to a Ocean veiw in my condo....the care-free beach life.....back in the day....man,those were the days ! When I retire that's were I'm heading back to !</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 10, 2004 02:34PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 20 |
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 12, 2004 05:49PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 2 |
<HTML>Hi i am also new to this forum and have been detailing for a couple months for my friends at thier office in west palm beach Fl for nice bonus cash each month. i have been checking into becoming a full time mobile detailer but i have read some past forums about rules and regultions mobile detailers have to comply with. i also want to become licensed and insured (insurance bout 1200 a yr) is that expensive? if you could give me info about licensing in boynton beach / west palmbeach county.
any replys will be greatly appreciated</HTML>
any replys will be greatly appreciated</HTML>
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 12, 2004 06:22PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 23 |
<HTML>Dan I also looked into insurance and the quote I was given was $1,250.00 so I would say that must be the average rate. The insurance doesn't cover any oops or mistakes on your part. The only thing it covers is if the car was damged by an accident while driving,being hit by another car or being stolen.Im still doing research on the license situation and will be sure to let you know the outcome...</HTML>
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Re: Occupational License nightmare June 12, 2004 10:23PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 2 |
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