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DiamondPlus/Megguiars NXT
Posted by william gillaspie
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Re: bud's answer to ketch June 19, 2004 04:23PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Ketch:
Thanks for the answer. I was not aware that so many different solvents were used in detailing products.
I try to keep things simple with the products we sell. We would not put any solvents in products that were going to be placed on paint, as I am sure your company would not either.
Products like Auri were not formulated by a company selling the product it was formulated by a company who did it for the infomerical company that was selling Auri. Why they used that dangerous solvent I know not why?
They were off the market because they ran their course. They could not sell anymore product to justify the cost of the infomercials.
In any case, thank you.
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Thanks for the answer. I was not aware that so many different solvents were used in detailing products.
I try to keep things simple with the products we sell. We would not put any solvents in products that were going to be placed on paint, as I am sure your company would not either.
Products like Auri were not formulated by a company selling the product it was formulated by a company who did it for the infomerical company that was selling Auri. Why they used that dangerous solvent I know not why?
They were off the market because they ran their course. They could not sell anymore product to justify the cost of the infomercials.
In any case, thank you.
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: bud's answer to ketch June 19, 2004 04:30PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>Bud...,
Whats up???
For years you have been declaring that you and your "chemists" knew what was in all the detailing products on the market..., that they were all the same, etc, etc...
Now you say you do not know..., Hmmmm???</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
Whats up???
For years you have been declaring that you and your "chemists" knew what was in all the detailing products on the market..., that they were all the same, etc, etc...
Now you say you do not know..., Hmmmm???</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
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Re: bud's answer to ketch June 19, 2004 04:57PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 237 |
<HTML>I asked for the Material Safety Data Sheets for some Meguires products a while ago. Within half an hour I had the UK's top exec phoning me up asking what the hell I wanted them for. I am entitled to have them, but as far as they are concerned, they could see no good reason why I should ask.
I had formed a buying group which involved companies abroad and so had to ship to them. I think they were more worried by me buying in the UK then distributing on somebody elses patch in Europe. But there is no doubt that many companies are touchy about these things.
Also. I love to know all the techincal in's and outs' of products... which I found out if I can, then get a reletive of mine whi is a chemist to explain so that I can use it in marketing.
But trying to get such information out of salesmen is like pulling teeth. It's not that they are being difficult, they just have no idea. Most of the people they sell to don't want to know. They just want to hear that it makes the car shiney and lasts a long time... so thats all the salesmen know usually... that and a list of well known names who also use thier gear.
They are of course right, thats how you sell these products. But I like to have the tech info to back it up, but I would never push it on 99% of my customers. Mrs Smith just isn't interested.</HTML>
I had formed a buying group which involved companies abroad and so had to ship to them. I think they were more worried by me buying in the UK then distributing on somebody elses patch in Europe. But there is no doubt that many companies are touchy about these things.
Also. I love to know all the techincal in's and outs' of products... which I found out if I can, then get a reletive of mine whi is a chemist to explain so that I can use it in marketing.
But trying to get such information out of salesmen is like pulling teeth. It's not that they are being difficult, they just have no idea. Most of the people they sell to don't want to know. They just want to hear that it makes the car shiney and lasts a long time... so thats all the salesmen know usually... that and a list of well known names who also use thier gear.
They are of course right, thats how you sell these products. But I like to have the tech info to back it up, but I would never push it on 99% of my customers. Mrs Smith just isn't interested.</HTML>
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Re: bud's answer to ketch June 19, 2004 05:24PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
<HTML>Dan under the UK COSHH ( Control of Substances Hazardous to Health ) regulations, any manufacturer/supplier is required by law to provide you with the Safety Data Sheet for their products. If they are not willing to supply them I would simply call your local HSE office and have them call for you. If the Meguiars executive can not see a reason why you should have them then he needs hid head examined .
I did several hundred COSHH assesments when I was in the UK, and never had a problem getting the sheets, if I did I called the local HSE and usually had them faxed to me within a couple of hours.
Jim.</HTML>
I did several hundred COSHH assesments when I was in the UK, and never had a problem getting the sheets, if I did I called the local HSE and usually had them faxed to me within a couple of hours.
Jim.</HTML>
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Re: bud's answer to ketch June 19, 2004 06:30PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Dan,
In order to avoid fines from OSHA, you are required to have the MSDS of every product in your shop. Meguiars knows this so either someone was pulling your leg or this really didn't happen. Every item I receive from Stoner comes with the MSDS.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
In order to avoid fines from OSHA, you are required to have the MSDS of every product in your shop. Meguiars knows this so either someone was pulling your leg or this really didn't happen. Every item I receive from Stoner comes with the MSDS.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: bud's answer to ketch June 19, 2004 06:54PM |
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Re: bud's answer to ketch June 19, 2004 07:38PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>Thank you
I guess I just do not know the difference in "claims" and lies,
Marketing and, again, lies.
If there was more honesty and less "gimmics", and "claims", I believe this industry would be much better(as well as all others and the rest of the world)..., but alas..., we must self police to expost the BS and self promotors vs. the products that are actually worth purchasing and using..., not only for the pro's, but "joe consumor" as well.
It would really be nice if the "truth was known" throughout the industry..., stories of manufacturers, your own chemists and other BS posted to try to impress others..., however, there is th minority of people that do know the truth about what is going on
Maybe one day "someone" will "spill the beans"...,
I guess lies are one of my pet peeves..., I just do not understand what is so wrong about telling the truth???</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
I guess I just do not know the difference in "claims" and lies,
Marketing and, again, lies.
If there was more honesty and less "gimmics", and "claims", I believe this industry would be much better(as well as all others and the rest of the world)..., but alas..., we must self police to expost the BS and self promotors vs. the products that are actually worth purchasing and using..., not only for the pro's, but "joe consumor" as well.
It would really be nice if the "truth was known" throughout the industry..., stories of manufacturers, your own chemists and other BS posted to try to impress others..., however, there is th minority of people that do know the truth about what is going on
Maybe one day "someone" will "spill the beans"...,
I guess lies are one of my pet peeves..., I just do not understand what is so wrong about telling the truth???</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
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Re: bud's answer to ketch June 19, 2004 09:26PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 237 |
<HTML>Jim & Brian,
They didn't for a moment refuse to give me the COSHH sheets. But after making a very large order, I phoned back and asked for them, plus some other specific stuff my shipping agent wanted to know about. They answered my questions and they were okay about it at the time. Oh yeah, I asked about wieghts and volume too.
Later I got a call asking me why I was asking so many questions, They didn't say they would not send COSHH sheets... but in not so many words, there was a heavy hint that if I didn't have an adiquate explination, they would cancel the order and refuse to deal with me. They are okay now, but I get the feeling they are keeping an eye on me.</HTML>
They didn't for a moment refuse to give me the COSHH sheets. But after making a very large order, I phoned back and asked for them, plus some other specific stuff my shipping agent wanted to know about. They answered my questions and they were okay about it at the time. Oh yeah, I asked about wieghts and volume too.
Later I got a call asking me why I was asking so many questions, They didn't say they would not send COSHH sheets... but in not so many words, there was a heavy hint that if I didn't have an adiquate explination, they would cancel the order and refuse to deal with me. They are okay now, but I get the feeling they are keeping an eye on me.</HTML>
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Re: bud's answer to ketch June 19, 2004 10:23PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: bud's answer to ketch June 20, 2004 12:49AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 73 |
<HTML>grumpy i didnt mean any thing buy the presta remark.it just looks like their bottles which i use every day and love them,anyway do you just produce compound or do you have a full line of chemicals.right now i primarly use ecp and detail king ive been trying to find out who produces dkings chemicals but no one seems to know,its a pain ordering them online all the time but they have some awesome interior chemicals and all purpose stuff</HTML>
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Re: bud's answer to ketch June 20, 2004 01:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>We produce a complete line, but not a line that has a lot of duplicates, like a "vinyl cleaner", a "seat cleaner", etc, which, if the supplier is honest, are the same, just that most put in a different color dye, a different label, possibly dilutions ratios are different and a different set of "instructions for use".
DetailKing's products, as I understand from field reports, is a small bathtubber in the Pittsburg area.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
DetailKing's products, as I understand from field reports, is a small bathtubber in the Pittsburg area.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Reply to Dan re: MSDS June 21, 2004 04:24PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Dan:
In the US of A chemical companies are required by law to have MSDS available for all products. They are not obligated to send them out with every order they ship. However, if the customer asks for a MSDS they are required to provide, IMMEDIATELY.
The user is required, by law, to have an MSDS on every chemical they have in the shop.
The reason? Obviously to protect the user.
The Material Safety Data Sheet in NOT an ingredients list. It ONLY contains those ingredients that pose a danger to the user and indicates what these are and what to do in case of exposure.
They also list the flash point, at what temperature it will ignite.
I cannot believe the the UK does not have similiar rules and regulations.
A word of caution. If you ask for a MSDS and the supplier refuses to give you one, or says they will send it and do not. Make a note and put it in their file indicating the date and time you asked for the sheet and the person to whom you made the request. That way if an inspector comes into your shop and asks to see the MSDS and you do not have it, you are protected.
In general, if a company does not provide you an MSDS when you request it, is a company I would not do business with.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
In the US of A chemical companies are required by law to have MSDS available for all products. They are not obligated to send them out with every order they ship. However, if the customer asks for a MSDS they are required to provide, IMMEDIATELY.
The user is required, by law, to have an MSDS on every chemical they have in the shop.
The reason? Obviously to protect the user.
The Material Safety Data Sheet in NOT an ingredients list. It ONLY contains those ingredients that pose a danger to the user and indicates what these are and what to do in case of exposure.
They also list the flash point, at what temperature it will ignite.
I cannot believe the the UK does not have similiar rules and regulations.
A word of caution. If you ask for a MSDS and the supplier refuses to give you one, or says they will send it and do not. Make a note and put it in their file indicating the date and time you asked for the sheet and the person to whom you made the request. That way if an inspector comes into your shop and asks to see the MSDS and you do not have it, you are protected.
In general, if a company does not provide you an MSDS when you request it, is a company I would not do business with.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: Reply to Dan re: MSDS June 21, 2004 05:24PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 243 |
<HTML> 2nd Reply to Dan on MSDS: Dan, Buda is right Dead On concerning the MSDS. If for instance you would have a fire or someone would injest some of the chemical,or there would be a spill and the Spill Controll or Fire Marshall Folks would be brought into the act. You had better have the said info on hand , in a lock box,or somewhere you can get it quick,quick. You also better be well versed,and understand what is in the MSDS. I have been directly involved with chemical release,and how to manage a situation. Depending on the amount of chemicals that you have on site will necissate how you care and manage your facility.
My Daughter has a Auto/Truck service facility, while there on a visit, I noticed that she was putting waste oil into several Plastic 55 gallon Drums an when they were approacing full,they would call a waste oil vender for removal. I told her that code anywhere, was to have these drums setting on a containment that would hold 10% above the largest drum in case there was as a leak. I also told her, to better cover her ass, by getting one for each drum that she used for waste oil storage. Also get one to set old discarded batteries on until properly disposed of. I don't know how it is in the UK, but I have been on the Escape Goat End of a Chemical Release,resulting in death to a company Employee,and being interrogated by OSHA,and the EPA. Both of whom have a little more on the ball than the Cub Scouts. If you ever have an opportunity to be under one of their investigations, you better have kept extremely good records, and well documented records.It saved my JOB,My Family's livelyhood,as well as my Sanity. What we got away with for years,you can't, and don't do at all anymore. The Chemical that you take for granted,as being ok to work with,with a minimum of protection,or no protection could take its toll on you 5-10 years from now.
This is why the MSDS sheets/Info came into being. So please don't feel intimidated with those venders that don't want to supply you with MSDS,or anything short of their Secret Ingredients. OSHA/EPA and all of the rest came into being for a reason,just like Lock Out/Tag Out of equipment,and all of the rest. I appologize for the lenghty Thread/Novel concerning the MSDS thing,but what I went through in the investigation that I referred to,I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy,if i have one... :-( ...Brandy !
P.S. could be questioning your wanting MSDS,weights,and other info,that the vendors Housekeeping isn't up to Par,and don't want anybody shaking the boat so to speak??????????</HTML>
Thanks Webb Master for getting me back on Line!.....Brandy
My Daughter has a Auto/Truck service facility, while there on a visit, I noticed that she was putting waste oil into several Plastic 55 gallon Drums an when they were approacing full,they would call a waste oil vender for removal. I told her that code anywhere, was to have these drums setting on a containment that would hold 10% above the largest drum in case there was as a leak. I also told her, to better cover her ass, by getting one for each drum that she used for waste oil storage. Also get one to set old discarded batteries on until properly disposed of. I don't know how it is in the UK, but I have been on the Escape Goat End of a Chemical Release,resulting in death to a company Employee,and being interrogated by OSHA,and the EPA. Both of whom have a little more on the ball than the Cub Scouts. If you ever have an opportunity to be under one of their investigations, you better have kept extremely good records, and well documented records.It saved my JOB,My Family's livelyhood,as well as my Sanity. What we got away with for years,you can't, and don't do at all anymore. The Chemical that you take for granted,as being ok to work with,with a minimum of protection,or no protection could take its toll on you 5-10 years from now.
This is why the MSDS sheets/Info came into being. So please don't feel intimidated with those venders that don't want to supply you with MSDS,or anything short of their Secret Ingredients. OSHA/EPA and all of the rest came into being for a reason,just like Lock Out/Tag Out of equipment,and all of the rest. I appologize for the lenghty Thread/Novel concerning the MSDS thing,but what I went through in the investigation that I referred to,I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy,if i have one... :-( ...Brandy !
P.S. could be questioning your wanting MSDS,weights,and other info,that the vendors Housekeeping isn't up to Par,and don't want anybody shaking the boat so to speak??????????</HTML>
Thanks Webb Master for getting me back on Line!.....Brandy
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Re: Reply to Dan re: MSDS June 21, 2004 11:11PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 237 |
<HTML>I have to stress again that the company in question didn't get funny because I asked for COSHH sheets... nor did they refuse to supply them.
You have to understand that appart from checking cars over, I hardlly go near them or the products. I never do any detailing (although I am now fully trained in order to help me do MY job), I am a graphic designer with 17 years in advertising. I sit in front of a computer most of the time and don't have too much experience with chemicals and appart from cleaning my keyboard, I don't have much use for them. Although my first ever job was in an office above a chemical wholesaler, so I was trained in a load of safety stuff which I have long forgotten.
So now, in this relativly new job (2.5 years) I am rapidly becoming the obvious choice to take on the role of buyer, administrator and a load of stuff I have never done before. Including finding out what is hot and what is not, getting in samples, going on fact finding missions abroad, dealing with the big suppliers, finding new areas for business.
So I organize a buying group, I make the order, I go to the shipping agent with American hazzard data sheets (MSDS?) which came with the samples and he says he doesn't think there is enough info for European regulations (although he isn't sure). so he sends me back to the company with a load of questions the type of solvent base, about toxic fumes in a fire, confined spaces etc. The American paperwork I had had hazard rating numbers on it which didn't tally with the UK system. (or at least with his book, I have since found out that this agent isn't very clued up... but hey, he is the office next door!).
So I asked questions about this and about weights and volume. And I had already been asking questions about negativly charged silicones and the base of ther tire sheen as we want to be body shop safe. all in all i must have been a pain in the arse.
Thats when they got funny... and why shouldn't they, After all, this was probably way beyond the kind of questions they normally get asked and they wondered what I was up too. The company in question has only been in the country for less than two years. They are aiming at the retial market. They only deal with a handful of detailing firms, which in this country are usual one man operations who like to buy stuff cheap.
And no, regulation in the UK is not nearly as tight as in America. You don't need any kind of licence to operate, you don't need insurance. As long as you arn't pumping chemical wast into the local river, you are pretty much clear of any red tape. There are health and saftey laws, but I am told that it about 16 years since the last inspection. Most suppliers are blokes in white vans... many are not even V.A.T. registered, some are probably under the radar all together! It is a favorite type of occupation of gypsies and market traders who may well be selling at car boot sales on the weekends.
It's true, you should get a Coshh sheetif you ask. But actually, most of the details for storing and the kind of hazzard are printed on a big orange lable on the side of the cans most of the time. so you don't often get to see a proper sheet. I doubt any detailing supply company ever gets asked for them here.</HTML>
You have to understand that appart from checking cars over, I hardlly go near them or the products. I never do any detailing (although I am now fully trained in order to help me do MY job), I am a graphic designer with 17 years in advertising. I sit in front of a computer most of the time and don't have too much experience with chemicals and appart from cleaning my keyboard, I don't have much use for them. Although my first ever job was in an office above a chemical wholesaler, so I was trained in a load of safety stuff which I have long forgotten.
So now, in this relativly new job (2.5 years) I am rapidly becoming the obvious choice to take on the role of buyer, administrator and a load of stuff I have never done before. Including finding out what is hot and what is not, getting in samples, going on fact finding missions abroad, dealing with the big suppliers, finding new areas for business.
So I organize a buying group, I make the order, I go to the shipping agent with American hazzard data sheets (MSDS?) which came with the samples and he says he doesn't think there is enough info for European regulations (although he isn't sure). so he sends me back to the company with a load of questions the type of solvent base, about toxic fumes in a fire, confined spaces etc. The American paperwork I had had hazard rating numbers on it which didn't tally with the UK system. (or at least with his book, I have since found out that this agent isn't very clued up... but hey, he is the office next door!).
So I asked questions about this and about weights and volume. And I had already been asking questions about negativly charged silicones and the base of ther tire sheen as we want to be body shop safe. all in all i must have been a pain in the arse.
Thats when they got funny... and why shouldn't they, After all, this was probably way beyond the kind of questions they normally get asked and they wondered what I was up too. The company in question has only been in the country for less than two years. They are aiming at the retial market. They only deal with a handful of detailing firms, which in this country are usual one man operations who like to buy stuff cheap.
And no, regulation in the UK is not nearly as tight as in America. You don't need any kind of licence to operate, you don't need insurance. As long as you arn't pumping chemical wast into the local river, you are pretty much clear of any red tape. There are health and saftey laws, but I am told that it about 16 years since the last inspection. Most suppliers are blokes in white vans... many are not even V.A.T. registered, some are probably under the radar all together! It is a favorite type of occupation of gypsies and market traders who may well be selling at car boot sales on the weekends.
It's true, you should get a Coshh sheetif you ask. But actually, most of the details for storing and the kind of hazzard are printed on a big orange lable on the side of the cans most of the time. so you don't often get to see a proper sheet. I doubt any detailing supply company ever gets asked for them here.</HTML>
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Re: Reply to Dan re: MSDS June 22, 2004 01:36PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 243 |
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