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Porter-Cable 7424:Bud and Ketch
Posted by Eric Brandenburg
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Porter-Cable 7424:Bud and Ketch July 13, 2004 12:14PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 243 |
<HTML>There is a great article that was done on another forum by David Bynon. Anybody wanting, or previously interested in a PC 7424 you ought to go on the Better Care Care site and check out this entry.Go to editor@bettercarcare.com this should get you there,if they aren't already on your favorites. Who ever did this follow up on the Porter -Cable Pc did a very good job. Bud and Ketch what do you guys think about this product?............................ Brandy !</HTML>
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Re: Porter-Cable 7424:Bud and Ketch July 13, 2004 01:04PM |
<HTML>I have one and until I got the rotary I tried relying on it for defect removal. While a good tool, it takes an awfully long time to removal sometimes even minor marring and scratches and after all of that, one still can have some left behind. I think it best serves as a follow up after using a rotary, perhaps to remove any rotary induced marks. This said, I do try it first to correct small defects in attempt to adhere to the "use the least aggressive method to get the job done" philosophy. I believe many use to apply and remove a very light polish or sealant. I would still recommend having one in your tool arsenal.</HTML>
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Re: Porter-Cable 7424:Bud and Ketch July 13, 2004 04:53PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 243 |
<HTML>Bill, I did the same as you, until I got my new Makita varible speed, soft start rotary Buffer,and i also have a 5.hp 2-stage Quency air comp,and I also use air driven rotary as well. I cannot believe that you can ever depend on the Porter-Cable 7424 or an other "DA" for that matter to finish correct. You may remove some oxidation, but who in their right mind would waste the time with it, if you have other means (Rotary air/elect). This has been discussed many,many times on this forum as well as others in the past. I guess the main thing that I eluded to was how this was promoted! IT being a very nice "Show and Tell". I think it would be great it all of the pedlers on the forum did the same thing as was done here! Just another opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.... Buy the way Bud Abraham has a very nice Kit with the the Porter-Cable 7424 as the driver,and reasonable priced for what you get...............:-) Brandy !</HTML>
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Re: Porter-Cable 7424:Bud and Ketch July 14, 2004 12:53AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>Back in the late 90's, when Nissan started it Infiniti luxury division, the first Q45's that hit the ports, before going on to the dealers for the "launch" of this brand, the vehicle's had a serious "swirl" concern, out of the factory.
The first two or three model years had a Japanese "version" of a high solid/low solvent clear, with a "little additive' in it, a "flurotelamer" (base of Teflon) was added.
Why the hell am I telling you this when the subject is "PorterCable or other dual action polishers"?
Simple, for one to be aware of the tool they are using, it is not a bad thing to know how this tool came into the industry.
So, if you don't care, you don't feel it is important to be knowledgable, stop reading!
Now, I was called into Nissan's DAS port ops in the L.A. area, as was 3M and Mequiar's, we were the only ones asked to view and offer suggestions for a "fix" that could get the finish right enough to ship to the dealers.
None of us may claim " we did it", but collectively, we came up with a fix.
First, the addition of the flurotelamer to the clear did not allow the clear to "cure" or crosslink. It was so soft, 2 weeks after leaving the bake oven, that if you leaned against the "D" pillar or "sail panel", your palm print was now part of the clearcoat.
We all tried various compounds, with various yarn, natural and foam pads, using rotary buffers (you do understand what a "rotary buffer" is, right), and all we did was make worse marring- which most refer to as "swirls", and no @!#$, if the clear is so soft that leaning on it leaves your palm print in it, a rotary buffer turning at any speed in an rotary motion is going to mar it.
The concern was due to the factory using whatever pad and a rotary to attempt to remove dust nibs, etc, and "no kidding" the clear was crap, so they did what they could, as good Japanese employees, don't question, just do it.
Did not work, but they then did as most detailers do, "put a glaze on it and send it out", and by the time the vehicles set at the port over there, spend a week or so on a ship (very hot down there in the hold) and off loaded, the "glaze had evaporated" much like most glazes do, and all one could see, "the real problem or concern".
Anyway, we played around, even tried a normal "orbital buffer", no luck.
The old boy from 3M and I had known each other for years, worked together, had a few coctails, etc, and the Mequiar's rep at the time and I were known to share a few cocktails as well.
In short, we knew and trusted each other, and we had a collective client with a major concern. (notice-I do not say---"problem", since car companies hate that word)
We thought and thought, finally Mequiar's had been playing around with the Porter Cable dual action, but the rep did not have a velcro backing plate with him, but the 3M rep had one that they were just starting to market for sanding, and I had a fine celled foam pad with me.
We tried it, it worked, and due to my lazy ass, etc, 3M not going for it, Mequiar's got the TSB.
This story or "event history" is where the use of dual action "buffers" started in the industry.
They are great for "polishing", were never intended to be used as a "cutting tool", yet, it is not all bad, since it is next to impossible for the "un-informed", "non-professional who wants to be somebody" to damage a paint finish unless they are complete idiots.
We all know idiots, and they are everywhere.
So, use them as intended, great for final polishing, following the use of a "rotary buffer", wonderful for a speeded up application of the final wax/sealant, and with a fresh, dry foam pad on the tool and a terry bonnet over it, may even be used for removal of the wax/sealant.
That's it, that's all I have to say-------for now.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
The first two or three model years had a Japanese "version" of a high solid/low solvent clear, with a "little additive' in it, a "flurotelamer" (base of Teflon) was added.
Why the hell am I telling you this when the subject is "PorterCable or other dual action polishers"?
Simple, for one to be aware of the tool they are using, it is not a bad thing to know how this tool came into the industry.
So, if you don't care, you don't feel it is important to be knowledgable, stop reading!
Now, I was called into Nissan's DAS port ops in the L.A. area, as was 3M and Mequiar's, we were the only ones asked to view and offer suggestions for a "fix" that could get the finish right enough to ship to the dealers.
None of us may claim " we did it", but collectively, we came up with a fix.
First, the addition of the flurotelamer to the clear did not allow the clear to "cure" or crosslink. It was so soft, 2 weeks after leaving the bake oven, that if you leaned against the "D" pillar or "sail panel", your palm print was now part of the clearcoat.
We all tried various compounds, with various yarn, natural and foam pads, using rotary buffers (you do understand what a "rotary buffer" is, right), and all we did was make worse marring- which most refer to as "swirls", and no @!#$, if the clear is so soft that leaning on it leaves your palm print in it, a rotary buffer turning at any speed in an rotary motion is going to mar it.
The concern was due to the factory using whatever pad and a rotary to attempt to remove dust nibs, etc, and "no kidding" the clear was crap, so they did what they could, as good Japanese employees, don't question, just do it.
Did not work, but they then did as most detailers do, "put a glaze on it and send it out", and by the time the vehicles set at the port over there, spend a week or so on a ship (very hot down there in the hold) and off loaded, the "glaze had evaporated" much like most glazes do, and all one could see, "the real problem or concern".
Anyway, we played around, even tried a normal "orbital buffer", no luck.
The old boy from 3M and I had known each other for years, worked together, had a few coctails, etc, and the Mequiar's rep at the time and I were known to share a few cocktails as well.
In short, we knew and trusted each other, and we had a collective client with a major concern. (notice-I do not say---"problem", since car companies hate that word)
We thought and thought, finally Mequiar's had been playing around with the Porter Cable dual action, but the rep did not have a velcro backing plate with him, but the 3M rep had one that they were just starting to market for sanding, and I had a fine celled foam pad with me.
We tried it, it worked, and due to my lazy ass, etc, 3M not going for it, Mequiar's got the TSB.
This story or "event history" is where the use of dual action "buffers" started in the industry.
They are great for "polishing", were never intended to be used as a "cutting tool", yet, it is not all bad, since it is next to impossible for the "un-informed", "non-professional who wants to be somebody" to damage a paint finish unless they are complete idiots.
We all know idiots, and they are everywhere.
So, use them as intended, great for final polishing, following the use of a "rotary buffer", wonderful for a speeded up application of the final wax/sealant, and with a fresh, dry foam pad on the tool and a terry bonnet over it, may even be used for removal of the wax/sealant.
That's it, that's all I have to say-------for now.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Porter-Cable 7424:Bud and Ketch July 14, 2004 01:43AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>Excuse me, I meant the Late 80's when the Infiniti line came into the market, not the late 90's.
What the hell, I am old, I forget, I , I , I, Nancy, where is my horse, what is the red phone for??
I got to take a nap.
Ketch, the Old Grumpy Fart</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
What the hell, I am old, I forget, I , I , I, Nancy, where is my horse, what is the red phone for??
I got to take a nap.
Ketch, the Old Grumpy Fart</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Porter-Cable 7424:Bud and Ketch July 14, 2004 04:30AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Brandy:
Let's just keep it simple. If you need to correct paint finish problems like scratches; oxidation; water spots; scuffs, etc YOU NEED A ROTARY BUFFER.
If you want to remove, not fill buffer swirls (swirls, not compound scratches in the form of swirls) you NEED A ROTARY BUFFER.
The Orbital or D/A in my opinion is nothing but an applicator of wax or sealant.
You can also get a shampoo attachment kit (we sell them) and use it as a carpet shampooer too. However, I would have to say that a high speed rotary tool does a better job of shampooing too.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Let's just keep it simple. If you need to correct paint finish problems like scratches; oxidation; water spots; scuffs, etc YOU NEED A ROTARY BUFFER.
If you want to remove, not fill buffer swirls (swirls, not compound scratches in the form of swirls) you NEED A ROTARY BUFFER.
The Orbital or D/A in my opinion is nothing but an applicator of wax or sealant.
You can also get a shampoo attachment kit (we sell them) and use it as a carpet shampooer too. However, I would have to say that a high speed rotary tool does a better job of shampooing too.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Porter-Cable 7424:Bud and Ketch July 14, 2004 08:35AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>FRANK....Do you agree with buda,that a rotary is required TO REMOVE them quickly......Or can you STILL REMOVE scratches with YOUR orbitrol buffer,as you claimed.....any photo's of you doing it yet...BEFORE & AFTER.. like you promised us all here?
JUST JOKING(of course) FRANK....everytime I hear this story about needing a rotary to remove scratches...I can't help but too think about your claims in previous post about this topic.
BTW....how about that free "find a detailer" listing on your site?....still waiting like you requested,how much longer?
.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
JUST JOKING(of course) FRANK....everytime I hear this story about needing a rotary to remove scratches...I can't help but too think about your claims in previous post about this topic.
BTW....how about that free "find a detailer" listing on your site?....still waiting like you requested,how much longer?
.</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
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Re: Porter-Cable 7424:Bud and Ketch July 14, 2004 01:48PM |
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Re: Porter-Cable 7424:Bud and Ketch July 14, 2004 07:47PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 243 |
<HTML>Way to go Bill, the alcohol rub down, as you say will tell the tale. I did the very excact same thing, only I used my Hutchins air driven DA to work this miracle,and I felt so good,and this warm feeling came over me, until I washed the buffed area off with MS,and still had the battle scars. I got out the old 3M,and Mikita Buffer and went to work. 30 minutes later the complete dog house area that was battle scarred, was clean, and clean as a whistle. This was after the MS bath for the second time. I feel that Bud and the rest are correct in saying they are a good tool to put the Glaze/Sealant/Wax on with, using a good bonnett. I don't think I would waste my time trying to remove the residue with another bonnett,just use a polishing cloth,by hand!............ Brandy!</HTML>
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