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Wetsanding problem
Posted by Anne Springer
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Wetsanding problem July 27, 2004 03:47AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>I was wetsanding a friend's car the other week and in two spots I was unable to get the scratches out. (I think its because the hood got too dry and I didn't water it down soon enough) I used a 2000 grit sand paper, along with some rubbing compound and polish that removes at least 1200 grit, and it didn't do anything for the spots. I have not yet tried a buffer to correct the problem, and I'm wondering if that will clear it up and I won't have to worry.
Long story short, I'm upset at my crappy job, although my friend doesn't really care since he needs a paint job anyways. I am now turning to you guys for some help... Does anyone have any tips for removing these fine scratches?
Thanks!
Anne</HTML>
Long story short, I'm upset at my crappy job, although my friend doesn't really care since he needs a paint job anyways. I am now turning to you guys for some help... Does anyone have any tips for removing these fine scratches?
Thanks!
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 27, 2004 03:48AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 27, 2004 05:03PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 27, 2004 05:36PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 28, 2004 03:22AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 28, 2004 04:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Anne:
Is this a clear coat or single stage paint? If it is a factory clear coat you should not be wet sanding it as it is only 1.5 mils thick. When a body shop paints a clear coat they spray about 2.75 mils of clear to have enough to wet sand out the imperfections.
The process for wetsanding is to sand, then use a 600 or 800 grit compound to take out the wetsanding scratches. You can try a poly/wool blend pad and if that does not work then a wool pad.
After that you may need to use a micro fine compound to finish it off.
Then a swirl remover/polish to remove the buffer swirls from the micro fine compound.
Hope that helps
Bud A</HTML>
buda
Is this a clear coat or single stage paint? If it is a factory clear coat you should not be wet sanding it as it is only 1.5 mils thick. When a body shop paints a clear coat they spray about 2.75 mils of clear to have enough to wet sand out the imperfections.
The process for wetsanding is to sand, then use a 600 or 800 grit compound to take out the wetsanding scratches. You can try a poly/wool blend pad and if that does not work then a wool pad.
After that you may need to use a micro fine compound to finish it off.
Then a swirl remover/polish to remove the buffer swirls from the micro fine compound.
Hope that helps
Bud A</HTML>
buda
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 28, 2004 06:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 28, 2004 01:33PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>No problem, about the confusion. I live in a very confused world myself...
Okay, so in order to remove the scratches, I have to use something more abrasive. I am just worried about making a further mess of things!
Bud, I am not sure if this is factory clearcoat since some pieces of the car have been repainted, but its my guess its original. Unfortunately I don't have a paint gauge but from the looks of the chips, the paint is fairly deep and I am not worried about taking too much off. I probably shouldn't have wetsanded in the first place, but it worked like a charm! (with exception)
I am hoping to get my buffer back by the weekend, but I don't have a wool pad; just a cutting, a finishing and a polishing.
Anne</HTML>
Okay, so in order to remove the scratches, I have to use something more abrasive. I am just worried about making a further mess of things!
Bud, I am not sure if this is factory clearcoat since some pieces of the car have been repainted, but its my guess its original. Unfortunately I don't have a paint gauge but from the looks of the chips, the paint is fairly deep and I am not worried about taking too much off. I probably shouldn't have wetsanded in the first place, but it worked like a charm! (with exception)
I am hoping to get my buffer back by the weekend, but I don't have a wool pad; just a cutting, a finishing and a polishing.
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 28, 2004 02:00PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>If you do not know what the paint is you should not be experimenting on different techniques like wet-sanding.
We NEVER teach detailers to wet sand. We tell them if they want to learn properly and sell the service they should contact an automotive paint company and learn the right way.
As mentioned, there is no need to wetsand a factory clear coat because it does not oxidize, and you should not be attempting to take out imperfections put in the paint by a painter. That is there job.
And, as mentioned, a factory clear is not put on to be wetsanded, it is only 1.5 mils thick.
Further, a paint thickness guage, unless digital, and you know how to use it will tell you nothing about the thickness of the clear coat. It only measures entire film thickness: E-Coat; Primer; Base Coat; Clear Coat. So that will not help.
My advise is to stick to detailing and be sure you have all the right and proper equipment.
When you wet sand you MUST have a white wool cutting pad or at the least, a poly/wool cutting pad.
Again the process is:
1500 grit sandpaper
600 or 800 grit compound
2000 or Micro Fine compound
Swirl Remover/Polish (no silicone)
Buffer
Wool and Poly Wool Cutting Pads
Foam Polishing Pad
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
We NEVER teach detailers to wet sand. We tell them if they want to learn properly and sell the service they should contact an automotive paint company and learn the right way.
As mentioned, there is no need to wetsand a factory clear coat because it does not oxidize, and you should not be attempting to take out imperfections put in the paint by a painter. That is there job.
And, as mentioned, a factory clear is not put on to be wetsanded, it is only 1.5 mils thick.
Further, a paint thickness guage, unless digital, and you know how to use it will tell you nothing about the thickness of the clear coat. It only measures entire film thickness: E-Coat; Primer; Base Coat; Clear Coat. So that will not help.
My advise is to stick to detailing and be sure you have all the right and proper equipment.
When you wet sand you MUST have a white wool cutting pad or at the least, a poly/wool cutting pad.
Again the process is:
1500 grit sandpaper
600 or 800 grit compound
2000 or Micro Fine compound
Swirl Remover/Polish (no silicone)
Buffer
Wool and Poly Wool Cutting Pads
Foam Polishing Pad
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 28, 2004 05:04PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 29, 2004 12:10AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 30 |
<HTML>Fellows you are way behind in tech...3m Trizact system ..wet sand 1500 /w palm sander then 3000 same process then simply buff with black waffle and Trizact swirl remover and glaze...Can do a black or navy blue truck thats been deer unting in the woods and look almost as if it came off the showroom floor in 2 hours..Of coarse this system isnt cheap by no means but very quick...Pics and process are on tintdude...this is for the advanced detailer and not for beginners.....</HTML>
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 29, 2004 08:37PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 74 |
<HTML>I agree that factory finishes are not designed to be wetsanded. If you are absolutely determined to try, I would stick with 2000 grit paper. If a little bit of rubbing with the 2000 doesn't remove the imperfections, it's best to stop sanding before it's too late!
Sanding scratches can be removed using a wool buffing pad and a heavy duty compound. If this doesn't work after several passes, there's a good chances the scratches are too deep to be buffed out.
Modern automotive paints are hard on the surface, but soft and "spongy" underneath. The closer to the primer you go, the softer and spongier they get. If you remove too much paint by sanding, buffing will only drive the scratches deeper into the paint and produce swirls that cannot be removed.</HTML>
Sanding scratches can be removed using a wool buffing pad and a heavy duty compound. If this doesn't work after several passes, there's a good chances the scratches are too deep to be buffed out.
Modern automotive paints are hard on the surface, but soft and "spongy" underneath. The closer to the primer you go, the softer and spongier they get. If you remove too much paint by sanding, buffing will only drive the scratches deeper into the paint and produce swirls that cannot be removed.</HTML>
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 30, 2004 02:45AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>Thanks for the advice. I agree, I never should have tried wetsanding his car, but he didn't mind much since the fact its needs repainting anyways. He told me to go ahead and experiment!
I just got my replacement buffer today and I plan to attack the car this weekend with my rubbing compound and a fine cut pad (I think!). Or I might just do some polish with my polishing pad and see if that works. A lot of the sanding marks disappeared with polishing, but unfortunately I had to do it all by hand since my buffer went up in smoke, literally. Let you know the results on that one Monday...
On another note, his car suddenly came up with these tiny nasty cracks in the paint today, as if there was a lot of pressure exerted on the paint. Strange!
Brian, he can't get the thing repainted soon enough!!!
Anne</HTML>
I just got my replacement buffer today and I plan to attack the car this weekend with my rubbing compound and a fine cut pad (I think!). Or I might just do some polish with my polishing pad and see if that works. A lot of the sanding marks disappeared with polishing, but unfortunately I had to do it all by hand since my buffer went up in smoke, literally. Let you know the results on that one Monday...
On another note, his car suddenly came up with these tiny nasty cracks in the paint today, as if there was a lot of pressure exerted on the paint. Strange!
Brian, he can't get the thing repainted soon enough!!!
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 30, 2004 02:51AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>If he's letting you experiment then by all means experiment and find your routine.
Test and see how long it takes to burn the paint, with what pads and what products for X amount of time and what speed, etc. Just saying this because he's repainting the car.
I know some people will want to pistol whip me for saying that but it's a "claim-less" way to learn, no? :-)</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
Test and see how long it takes to burn the paint, with what pads and what products for X amount of time and what speed, etc. Just saying this because he's repainting the car.
I know some people will want to pistol whip me for saying that but it's a "claim-less" way to learn, no? :-)</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 30, 2004 02:55AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 499 |
<HTML>It sounds like the "cracking" you speak of is stress fractures in the paint from expansion and contraction of the paint due to temperature change. The paint will expand and contract to a certain degree until the film eventually "breaks" and cracks appear. This is a common problem I see on Jeep Cherokees with factory paint on the hoods. There is commonly no heat shield on the underside of the hood and the paint gets extremely hot especially in summer. Have a look at a hood on one next time you see one and see if you can see the little "crows feet" cracks all over the hood.</HTML>
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Re: Wetsanding problem July 30, 2004 02:56AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>Yeah, no kidding! This way when I do serious cars I'll have already messed up and learned my lesson! Problem is, I fixed a paint chip in my coat by using paint touchup and then wetsanding around the area, and it worked like a charm- you cannot see the chip! But... his paint has gotta be a different process than mine, even though my car is a year newer. His is a special car, and a mica color.
I think I'm done wetsanding for now, even though I was going to tackle the roof and trunk next to get rid of some more of the spots. I think I will take your advice and try some mineral spirits.
Anne</HTML>
I think I'm done wetsanding for now, even though I was going to tackle the roof and trunk next to get rid of some more of the spots. I think I will take your advice and try some mineral spirits.
Anne</HTML>
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