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LET'S GET BACK TO DETAILING - Second Notice
Posted by Frank Canna
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LET'S GET BACK TO DETAILING - Second Notice July 29, 2004 02:00PM |
<HTML>It's just amazing how a simple post about cleaning suede interior deserved to have more than thirty personal attacks, from more than a dozen fourm members on the Auto Detailing: Secrets of the Experts. Truely amazing!
1- Can't we all just get along and refrain from posting any more personal attacks?
2- Are we that insecure that we can't at least try to ignore and disregard these unwanted posts?
3- Can we please find a way to just get back to posting about the subject of detailing?
If you are not part of the solution, then you must be part of the problem.</HTML>
1- Can't we all just get along and refrain from posting any more personal attacks?
2- Are we that insecure that we can't at least try to ignore and disregard these unwanted posts?
3- Can we please find a way to just get back to posting about the subject of detailing?
If you are not part of the solution, then you must be part of the problem.</HTML>
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Re: LET'S GET BACK TO DETAILING - Second Notice July 29, 2004 03:31PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 8 |
<HTML>I stopped visiting the website for awhile, because of all of the bickering. I like to read information and educate myself about the detailing industry.
I was appalled at all of the flaming attacks, viciousness, etc.
This forum needs to concentrate on what it's here for.
Frank. Excellent post.</HTML>
I was appalled at all of the flaming attacks, viciousness, etc.
This forum needs to concentrate on what it's here for.
Frank. Excellent post.</HTML>
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Re: LET'S GET BACK TO DETAILING - Second Notice July 29, 2004 04:01PM |
<HTML>Yeah...I agree. The internet is a wonderful tool but, as with any tool, it must be used properly for the best results.
I can't imagine how far behind the curve I'd be without this forum and the great tips from Buda, Ketch, Scotty, Dan, and too many others to mention. I visit other boards on occasion but seem to alyways come back here for the "straight scoop".
Unfortunately one of the disadvantages is that folks with big egos and small minds can hide behind their screen and keyboard and make outrageous statements and hurl insults without any fear of retribution. My basic belief is that most people are good people. I just can't imagine what turns some folks into jacka$$e$ the minute they fire up their computer.
I try not to respond to any posts that are just so far out that a reply will do nothing but fuel the fire but I have to admit sometimes it pretty tempting to unload.
I hate censorship in any form, or forum, but I kinda think having a moderator that can delete posts that are totally off-topic may not be all bad.</HTML>
I can't imagine how far behind the curve I'd be without this forum and the great tips from Buda, Ketch, Scotty, Dan, and too many others to mention. I visit other boards on occasion but seem to alyways come back here for the "straight scoop".
Unfortunately one of the disadvantages is that folks with big egos and small minds can hide behind their screen and keyboard and make outrageous statements and hurl insults without any fear of retribution. My basic belief is that most people are good people. I just can't imagine what turns some folks into jacka$$e$ the minute they fire up their computer.
I try not to respond to any posts that are just so far out that a reply will do nothing but fuel the fire but I have to admit sometimes it pretty tempting to unload.
I hate censorship in any form, or forum, but I kinda think having a moderator that can delete posts that are totally off-topic may not be all bad.</HTML>
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Re: LET'S GET BACK TO DETAILING - Second Notice July 29, 2004 04:43PM |
<HTML>I also do not like censorship in any form. And I am not in favor of having a moderator who has the power to delete posts and ban members.
What we simply need to do is find our way back to just posting about the subject of detailing and ignore and disregard the unnecessary personal attacks.
Just let those personal attacks go unanswered and you will slowly begin to become part of the solution. Do not react. There is no good reason why anyone has to defend themselves on this or any other forum against unnecessary personal attacks.
For what it's worth, here are my thoughts on the subject of censorship.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When a detailing forum is no longer a public forum then it must be a private
club.
I have learned from experience that on many of the forums everything will go along fine as long as you remain a follower and agree with everyone. And it is especially important to agree with the moderators. However, as soon as it becomes clear to them that you are not thinking like everyone else, without warning, your posts either end up getting deleted or you get banned.
In many cases, the forum owner will simply have a member banned because they really have no idea how to deal with someone who thinks outside of their imaginary box. From the reaction of their moderators, it is clear to see that they begin to get a bit paranoid whenever one of the non-followers appears to be going in a different direction.
It is okay with me. I was never one for being a follower anyway. If I wanted to be a follower, I would still be working for my former employer. I will stick to being my own boss. It is more fun.</HTML>
What we simply need to do is find our way back to just posting about the subject of detailing and ignore and disregard the unnecessary personal attacks.
Just let those personal attacks go unanswered and you will slowly begin to become part of the solution. Do not react. There is no good reason why anyone has to defend themselves on this or any other forum against unnecessary personal attacks.
For what it's worth, here are my thoughts on the subject of censorship.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When a detailing forum is no longer a public forum then it must be a private
club.
I have learned from experience that on many of the forums everything will go along fine as long as you remain a follower and agree with everyone. And it is especially important to agree with the moderators. However, as soon as it becomes clear to them that you are not thinking like everyone else, without warning, your posts either end up getting deleted or you get banned.
In many cases, the forum owner will simply have a member banned because they really have no idea how to deal with someone who thinks outside of their imaginary box. From the reaction of their moderators, it is clear to see that they begin to get a bit paranoid whenever one of the non-followers appears to be going in a different direction.
It is okay with me. I was never one for being a follower anyway. If I wanted to be a follower, I would still be working for my former employer. I will stick to being my own boss. It is more fun.</HTML>
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Re: LET'S GET BACK TO DETAILING - Second Notice July 29, 2004 04:50PM |
<HTML>What we simply need to do is find our way back to just posting about the subject of detailing and ignore and disregard the unnecessary personal attacks.
Just let those personal attacks go unanswered and you will slowly begin to become part of the solution. Do not react. There is no good reason why anyone has to defend themselves on this or any other forum against unnecessary personal attacks.</HTML>
Just let those personal attacks go unanswered and you will slowly begin to become part of the solution. Do not react. There is no good reason why anyone has to defend themselves on this or any other forum against unnecessary personal attacks.</HTML>
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Re: LET'S GET BACK TO DETAILING - Second Notice July 29, 2004 05:15PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: LET'S GET BACK TO DETAILING - Second Notice July 29, 2004 07:01PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>great post frank!
....I AGREE...i'm glad you support my rights & others to voice their opinions here....no matter if their unpopular or not.....and GO against the grain....I don't like what alot of people say here also,but would always defend their right to continue to post here.....no matter what their opinion is of me....they have that right to voice it here....THATS THEIR RIGHT...I don't personal attacks so "personal"...their no big deal to me....I just try to learn from the reactions I get from others who disagree with me...or just sometimes ignore them....take your own advice !
MY ADVICE:
" take what you want....and leave the rest behind"
?</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
....I AGREE...i'm glad you support my rights & others to voice their opinions here....no matter if their unpopular or not.....and GO against the grain....I don't like what alot of people say here also,but would always defend their right to continue to post here.....no matter what their opinion is of me....they have that right to voice it here....THATS THEIR RIGHT...I don't personal attacks so "personal"...their no big deal to me....I just try to learn from the reactions I get from others who disagree with me...or just sometimes ignore them....take your own advice !
MY ADVICE:
" take what you want....and leave the rest behind"
?</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
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FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 29, 2004 10:13PM |
<HTML>What Frank is not TELLING is he got banned from detail city again for correcting someones grammer which i may add has nothing todo about DETAILING. So know he back over here trying to be the superstar of detailing.
I defended him because I thought it was very minor of the incident.
NOTHING ABOUT DETAILING: www.detailcity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5646
DEFENDING: www.detailcity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=postid=56060#post56060
DO A SEARCH ON: tag team detail
DO A SEARCH ON: few comments on banning</HTML>
I defended him because I thought it was very minor of the incident.
NOTHING ABOUT DETAILING: www.detailcity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5646
DEFENDING: www.detailcity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=postid=56060#post56060
DO A SEARCH ON: tag team detail
DO A SEARCH ON: few comments on banning</HTML>
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 29, 2004 11:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>INTERESTING POST from New Again.
I agree...what a hipocrit...
....he did the same thing over there & that he telling us not to do it here(posting stuff non-related to detailing topics) like posting grammar corrections...
NEW AGAIN....thanks for making this forum aware of that little nugget....nice job!</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
I agree...what a hipocrit...
....he did the same thing over there & that he telling us not to do it here(posting stuff non-related to detailing topics) like posting grammar corrections...
NEW AGAIN....thanks for making this forum aware of that little nugget....nice job!</HTML>
Visit my Web-Site
ColesCountyAutoDetailing.com
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 30, 2004 12:51AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 499 |
<HTML>Author: New Again
Date: 07-29-04 17:13
What Frank is not TELLING is he got banned from detail city again for correcting someones grammer which i may add has nothing todo about DETAILING. So know he back over here trying to be the superstar of detailing.
I defended him because I thought it was very minor of the incident.
NOTHING ABOUT DETAILING: www.detailcity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5646
DEFENDING: www.detailcity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=postid=56060#post56060
DO A SEARCH ON: tag team detail
DO A SEARCH ON: few comments on banning
I believe if memory serves me that Frank had some trouble over at Autpoia as well. However, both Detail City and Autopia are very "cliquey" and very quick to ban people. While I think some people are just generally a pain in the ass and should be muzzled, far too many people are banned from both those sites for little or no reason at all at the discretion of one person. That's wrong in my book. Did anyone know that both Ketch and Bud are banned at Autopia? Does that make a lot of sense to anyone who knows how much each of those 2 gentleman offer and contribute to the detailing community? I am not defending or scolding anyone - just playing devil's advocate.</HTML>
Date: 07-29-04 17:13
What Frank is not TELLING is he got banned from detail city again for correcting someones grammer which i may add has nothing todo about DETAILING. So know he back over here trying to be the superstar of detailing.
I defended him because I thought it was very minor of the incident.
NOTHING ABOUT DETAILING: www.detailcity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5646
DEFENDING: www.detailcity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=postid=56060#post56060
DO A SEARCH ON: tag team detail
DO A SEARCH ON: few comments on banning
I believe if memory serves me that Frank had some trouble over at Autpoia as well. However, both Detail City and Autopia are very "cliquey" and very quick to ban people. While I think some people are just generally a pain in the ass and should be muzzled, far too many people are banned from both those sites for little or no reason at all at the discretion of one person. That's wrong in my book. Did anyone know that both Ketch and Bud are banned at Autopia? Does that make a lot of sense to anyone who knows how much each of those 2 gentleman offer and contribute to the detailing community? I am not defending or scolding anyone - just playing devil's advocate.</HTML>
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 30, 2004 01:16AM |
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 30, 2004 01:42PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 8 |
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 04:37AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>From what I have seen Frank, nothing you said about Detail City is true. I don't use the fancy products that are sold at Detail City's store nor Autopia's but yet I still continue to be a member of both forums.
I often tell others that they don't need 30,000 different products to do one car but no moderator has ever warned me that this is wrong or bad.
The question to be asked here is "What did I do to be banned?"......"Was anything my fault?"
On Detail City you were banned once and then you were able to get re-registered and Dwayne and the Fuzz both looked the other way and gave you a second chance but you continued in your behavior and when you sought to PUBLICLY correct the grammar of a new Detail City member you were swiftly banned. May I ask where Detail City was wrong in that?
If you truly meant to help out Ron with his grammar should you not of sent him a private PM? Instead you sought to publicly humilate him.
Personally I have no beef with you, in fact I have found some of your posts very infomative, but it seems that many times you need to belittle others which is just wrong.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
I often tell others that they don't need 30,000 different products to do one car but no moderator has ever warned me that this is wrong or bad.
The question to be asked here is "What did I do to be banned?"......"Was anything my fault?"
On Detail City you were banned once and then you were able to get re-registered and Dwayne and the Fuzz both looked the other way and gave you a second chance but you continued in your behavior and when you sought to PUBLICLY correct the grammar of a new Detail City member you were swiftly banned. May I ask where Detail City was wrong in that?
If you truly meant to help out Ron with his grammar should you not of sent him a private PM? Instead you sought to publicly humilate him.
Personally I have no beef with you, in fact I have found some of your posts very infomative, but it seems that many times you need to belittle others which is just wrong.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 10:12AM |
<HTML>Imagine, being banned for 'PUBLICLY correcting grammar'.
Anthony, for one who claims to be of righteousness, maybe next time you should try to tell the whole truth? Wouldn't that be more righteous than just post another one of your opinions?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a copy of one of Anthony's posts over at DC and my reply before his personal attacks began to appeared on this fourm.
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mirrorfinishman
Banned
Registered: Mar 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 181
quote:Originally posted by Anthony Orosco
Frank,
It appears that you have a rather large chip on your shoulder because when ever one does not see things your way you seem to take it personally.
Your response is from one who lacks confidence.
...you in some sense saw my post as a personal attack, perhaps even threatening.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony,
Very dramatically said.
Are these responses also personal attacks or do they just come from those who also lack confidence?
QUOTE: Nickc0844,
"I have full faith that there is no way you would achieve these results Frank with the same products doing it by hand."
QUOTE: Poorboy,
"Gee I was really going to stay out of this only because i can't see myself ever really siding with Frank"
Quote: GearHead_1,
"I'm not trying to throw fuel on a fire here. I'm having a hard time understanding how you can service only the high end maintenance type customer"
Quote: dr_detail,
"I'm sure if he ever needs someone to train those intermediate detailers how to become professional ones, he will ask those of us here at DC who are."
Quote: dr_detail,
"Bigron, although I agree with you, and it sounds a little wimpy on Frank's part. Having done this (detailing) for as long as Frank -- I do see the merits in Frank's methodology. Do the easy cars, do the easy work, filter out the crap -- if it won't come clean by hand waxing, send them elsewhere (i.e. work smarter not harder), and charge more than anyone else because if it cost's the most, it must be the best. However there comes a time when experience outweighs arrogance and we move past it."
Quote: Nickc0844,
"For one to charge $50 is rediculous. Are you paying for the knowledge of the rotary work or simply because it is by hand?"
Quote: Nickc0844,
"Your wrong by saying that a rotary is not effiecient......IT'S ALL ABOUT EFFICIENCY using a rotary. You say that you charge $225 for about 4 hours of work. What all do you do in that 4 hours?"
Quote: Nickc0844,
"Granted, I think my friend BigRon got a little antsy, but he does have a point; Respect is earned on this forum, not spoon fed."
Quote: bigron62,
"WHAT A JOKE ... when it comes to doing some real paintwork you run away because you are scared .. straight up .. yea i get nervous but i have to get the job done & I GET BETTER ALL THE TIME .. im not buying into your nonsense .. i feel sorry for these poor people you serve because you are not able to meet all thier needs & you think thats ok .. then you want to come on here & tell us how great you are .. sorry pal im not buying it. you call yourself a leader in this industry and you cant even use the most basic tools of the trade this is hilarious"
Last post on this topic.
__________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ</HTML>
Anthony, for one who claims to be of righteousness, maybe next time you should try to tell the whole truth? Wouldn't that be more righteous than just post another one of your opinions?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a copy of one of Anthony's posts over at DC and my reply before his personal attacks began to appeared on this fourm.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mirrorfinishman
Banned
Registered: Mar 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 181
quote:Originally posted by Anthony Orosco
Frank,
It appears that you have a rather large chip on your shoulder because when ever one does not see things your way you seem to take it personally.
Your response is from one who lacks confidence.
...you in some sense saw my post as a personal attack, perhaps even threatening.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anthony,
Very dramatically said.
Are these responses also personal attacks or do they just come from those who also lack confidence?
QUOTE: Nickc0844,
"I have full faith that there is no way you would achieve these results Frank with the same products doing it by hand."
QUOTE: Poorboy,
"Gee I was really going to stay out of this only because i can't see myself ever really siding with Frank"
Quote: GearHead_1,
"I'm not trying to throw fuel on a fire here. I'm having a hard time understanding how you can service only the high end maintenance type customer"
Quote: dr_detail,
"I'm sure if he ever needs someone to train those intermediate detailers how to become professional ones, he will ask those of us here at DC who are."
Quote: dr_detail,
"Bigron, although I agree with you, and it sounds a little wimpy on Frank's part. Having done this (detailing) for as long as Frank -- I do see the merits in Frank's methodology. Do the easy cars, do the easy work, filter out the crap -- if it won't come clean by hand waxing, send them elsewhere (i.e. work smarter not harder), and charge more than anyone else because if it cost's the most, it must be the best. However there comes a time when experience outweighs arrogance and we move past it."
Quote: Nickc0844,
"For one to charge $50 is rediculous. Are you paying for the knowledge of the rotary work or simply because it is by hand?"
Quote: Nickc0844,
"Your wrong by saying that a rotary is not effiecient......IT'S ALL ABOUT EFFICIENCY using a rotary. You say that you charge $225 for about 4 hours of work. What all do you do in that 4 hours?"
Quote: Nickc0844,
"Granted, I think my friend BigRon got a little antsy, but he does have a point; Respect is earned on this forum, not spoon fed."
Quote: bigron62,
"WHAT A JOKE ... when it comes to doing some real paintwork you run away because you are scared .. straight up .. yea i get nervous but i have to get the job done & I GET BETTER ALL THE TIME .. im not buying into your nonsense .. i feel sorry for these poor people you serve because you are not able to meet all thier needs & you think thats ok .. then you want to come on here & tell us how great you are .. sorry pal im not buying it. you call yourself a leader in this industry and you cant even use the most basic tools of the trade this is hilarious"
Last post on this topic.
__________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ</HTML>
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 10:15AM |
<HTML>Quote: Nickc0844,
"For one to charge $50 is rediculous. Are you paying for the knowledge of the rotary work or simply because it is by hand?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He's referring to the fact that my hourly rate is based at $50 per hour.</HTML>
"For one to charge $50 is rediculous. Are you paying for the knowledge of the rotary work or simply because it is by hand?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He's referring to the fact that my hourly rate is based at $50 per hour.</HTML>
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 10:18AM |
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 02:28PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>Frank,
May I ask when I personally attacked you....as in your character? You need to learn the difference between a personal attack such as, "Hey you stupid idiot, you can't detail worth crap!"
What I did was seek to know or understand why you did what you did? In other words instead of an attack on you personally I questioned your motives.....huge difference.
Also if you wish to copy and paste something from me on another forum post the ENTIRE post. To not do so is dishonest.
You also overlooked the fact that you were already bannned once and you also overlooked my question to you which was, "Was Detail City wrong for banning you?"
You also overlook the fact that if you don't care for the treatment you recieve on many forums then you need to ask yourself "WHY am I getting banned......WHY do so many other detailers dislike me?" In life we many times recieve what we give out.
Lastly.......when did I ever claim to be "righteous"??
Deal with the facts Frank......don't be like Michael Moore and create your own version of it.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
May I ask when I personally attacked you....as in your character? You need to learn the difference between a personal attack such as, "Hey you stupid idiot, you can't detail worth crap!"
What I did was seek to know or understand why you did what you did? In other words instead of an attack on you personally I questioned your motives.....huge difference.
Also if you wish to copy and paste something from me on another forum post the ENTIRE post. To not do so is dishonest.
You also overlooked the fact that you were already bannned once and you also overlooked my question to you which was, "Was Detail City wrong for banning you?"
You also overlook the fact that if you don't care for the treatment you recieve on many forums then you need to ask yourself "WHY am I getting banned......WHY do so many other detailers dislike me?" In life we many times recieve what we give out.
Lastly.......when did I ever claim to be "righteous"??
Deal with the facts Frank......don't be like Michael Moore and create your own version of it.
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 02:57PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 499 |
<HTML>I didn't really see anything that could be construed as a "personal attack" in the post from Anthony. I say this as someone who doesn't know Anthony or Frank so I have no reason to take sides here. I suggest we just let it go as we have done with the other posts so this forum does not end up in ruins. I do however have to agree with Anthony on one point.
"You also overlook the fact that if you don't care for the treatment you recieve on many forums then you need to ask yourself "WHY am I getting banned......WHY do so many other detailers dislike me?" In life we many times recieve what we give out."
I think that makes a lot of sense.</HTML>
"You also overlook the fact that if you don't care for the treatment you recieve on many forums then you need to ask yourself "WHY am I getting banned......WHY do so many other detailers dislike me?" In life we many times recieve what we give out."
I think that makes a lot of sense.</HTML>
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 03:04PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 03:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 499 |
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 03:13PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 05:47PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>HYPOCRITE
Hell..., you even started this thread!!!
(talk about two faced, LOL!!!)
Author: Frank Canna
Date: 07-29-04 09:00
It's just amazing how a simple post about cleaning suede interior deserved to have more than thirty personal attacks, from more than a dozen fourm members on the Auto Detailing: Secrets of the Experts. Truely amazing!
1- Can't we all just get along and refrain from posting any more personal attacks?
2- Are we that insecure that we can't at least try to ignore and disregard these unwanted posts?
3- Can we please find a way to just get back to posting about the subject of detailing?
If you are not part of the solution, then you must be part of the problem.
_________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ
Author: Frank Canna
Date: 07-29-04 11:50
What we simply need to do is find our way back to just posting about the subject of detailing and ignore and disregard the unnecessary personal attacks.
Just let those personal attacks go unanswered and you will slowly begin to become part of the solution. Do not react. There is no good reason why anyone has to defend themselves on this or any other forum against unnecessary personal attacks.
_________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
Hell..., you even started this thread!!!
(talk about two faced, LOL!!!)
Author: Frank Canna
Date: 07-29-04 09:00
It's just amazing how a simple post about cleaning suede interior deserved to have more than thirty personal attacks, from more than a dozen fourm members on the Auto Detailing: Secrets of the Experts. Truely amazing!
1- Can't we all just get along and refrain from posting any more personal attacks?
2- Are we that insecure that we can't at least try to ignore and disregard these unwanted posts?
3- Can we please find a way to just get back to posting about the subject of detailing?
If you are not part of the solution, then you must be part of the problem.
_________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ
Author: Frank Canna
Date: 07-29-04 11:50
What we simply need to do is find our way back to just posting about the subject of detailing and ignore and disregard the unnecessary personal attacks.
Just let those personal attacks go unanswered and you will slowly begin to become part of the solution. Do not react. There is no good reason why anyone has to defend themselves on this or any other forum against unnecessary personal attacks.
_________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 06:07PM |
<HTML>Imagine, being banned for 'PUBLICLY correcting grammar'.
Anthony, for one who claims to be of righteousness, maybe you should just tell whole truth? Wouldn't that be more righteous than just posting more of your one sided opinions?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's are a few of posts, replies from DC that may help Anthony figure out who really 'needs to learn the difference between a personal attack'.
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ORIGINAL POST - DC Professional Detailing Corner - engine waiver
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jason rawls
Weekend Warrior
Posts: 93
Post 07-12-2004 12:04 PM
engine waiver
I'm new to professional detailing and am a bit nervous about doing engines. I've heard of a few people having problems after getting their engine detailed.
In order to protect myself from being sued by someone claiming that I messed up their engine, I would like to have them sign a waiver before detailing it.
I was hoping that someone would give me an example of a waiver that they use since I'm having trouble deciding how to word mine.
Thanks in advance,
Jason
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1ST REPLY FROM FRANK CANNA - (note: there were other replies from other members before my post)
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mirrorfinishman
Banned
Posts: 181
Post 07-12-2004 01:03 PM
It sounds like you're trying too hard to be 'all things to all people'. It has been my experience that less than one person out of a thousand will actually request anything to do with engine detailing. When I stop and think about it, I really can't remember the last time one of my customers requested engine detailing. That was probably a few years ago. When I do get a special request, I simply offer to just wipe down the engine compartment and I will only lift the hood while the customer is present and can see that I'm not using any water or chemicals.
__________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ
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2ND REPLY FROM FRANK CANNA - (note: in this reply I was simply repeating all of the legal terms that had been mentioned in prior replies from other members)
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mirrorfinishman
Banned
Posts: 181
Post 07-13-2004 03:43 PM
Being in the detailing business does not have to be about being sued, signing waivers, insurance claims, Mechanics Liens, litigation, legal actions, enforcing contracts, attorney's fees, court costs, pre-paid legal services, disclaimers, photographing every car from every angle, pre-estimate checklists, and not being liable for any damage that may occur.
Trust your customers and your customers will trust you.
__________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ
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1ST REPLY FROM DC MODERATOR
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The Fuzz
aka The Velvet Cowboy
Posts: 28931
07-13-2004 03:54 PM
Famous last words there. Trust nobody. You have to cover your butt. If you want to be a sucker and trust everybody, then you deserve it when someone takes advantage of you. Honest customers aren't going to be offended by a little legal mumbo jumbo. They will probably respect your professionalism and ability to CYA. Hire a lawyer to write a simple contract for you and that will save you a ton of trouble if someone decides they see a target painted on your chest.
Being a detailer may not have anything to do with any of that, but being in business is. Detailing is one thing, but business is war. You have to protect yourself. Don't be stupid in business. Get insurance, get a lawyer and have him write a contract with a damage waiver with notes in it.
Frank, if you don't have any kind of legal contract or insurance then I want to have my friends go to you. Someone that trusting needs to be taught a lesson about how the world works.
That's not really how I feel, but there are people out there who do feel that way. If you are going to go around unprotected then you might as well sleep around, share needles and drink the water. Don't live dangerously just because you think that your trusting nature is going to protect you from Montezuma's Revenge. It wont. Sorry to rain on the parade. I'm a realist and that is the way it is in the real world.
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3RD, AND LAST REPLY FROM FRANK CANNA
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mirrorfinishman
Banned
Posts: 181
Post 07-13-2004 04:28 PM
If you have a customer that you cannot trust, then they shouldn't be your customer.
Of course, when you lack integrity, confidence, reliability and responsibility for your own actions in the business of detailing, then you will have a greater need to protect yourself from everybody.
__________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2ND REPLY FROM DC MODERATOR
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Fuzz
aka The Velvet Cowboy
Posts: 28931
Post 07-13-2004 04:35 PM
You don't get my trust just because you have a checkbook and want me to detail your car. My trust isn't for sale. I don't have time to date every one of my customers before I determine if they are trustworthy or not. And if you are implying that any of us lack integrity or confidence, then I seriously suggest you clarify what you just said. Especially if you directed that at me. Just because you are lucky enough to never be taken advantage of doesn't mean the rest of the world should live so wrecklessly. MacDonalds thought they could trust people too until someone spilled coffee on themselves and sued them. People thought they could trust cigarette companies until they started dying from cancer. We thought we could trust the sunshine until people started getting cancer.
Frank, how you have lived this long with that kind of menality is beyond me. I don't mean to be super offensive, but I am just shocked to the core right now. I've never met a 'professional' who didn't suggest getting some legal protection and insurance to back his work. People aren't trustworthy. Its great to be trusting, but there is no reason to be stupid.
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3RD REPLY FROM DC MODERATOR
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The Fuzz
aka The Velvet Cowboy
Posts: 28931
Post 07-13-2004 05:25 PM
The intellectual level of this thread isn't going good. To prevent anyone else from saying something like "you don't need any kind of contracts, insurance or legal protection at all in business", I am going to close the thread now. My head is still spinning because of that comment.... I gotta go to sleep now and maybe when I wake up, the world will be right again.
One other thing, Mr. Trusting.... If the world is so trustworthy, then why would you have THIS WHOLE BIG DISCLAIMER on your own website? 'smatter? Can't you just trust people that they aren't going to rip off your material and make money on it? The same people you wrote that for are the kind of people who take advantage of detailers without any kind of legal protection.
I also find it interesting that you posted you don't even offer engine detailing. Its easy to be all ballsy about not having a waiver or service agreement when you don't even trust yourself to do the tricky stuff. The fact that you don't even know how to do engine detailing should have kept you from posting in this thread to begin with. You are simply not qualified to give advice on what we need waivers for and what we don't.
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Finally, last post on this Topic.</HTML>
Anthony, for one who claims to be of righteousness, maybe you should just tell whole truth? Wouldn't that be more righteous than just posting more of your one sided opinions?
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Here's are a few of posts, replies from DC that may help Anthony figure out who really 'needs to learn the difference between a personal attack'.
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ORIGINAL POST - DC Professional Detailing Corner - engine waiver
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jason rawls
Weekend Warrior
Posts: 93
Post 07-12-2004 12:04 PM
engine waiver
I'm new to professional detailing and am a bit nervous about doing engines. I've heard of a few people having problems after getting their engine detailed.
In order to protect myself from being sued by someone claiming that I messed up their engine, I would like to have them sign a waiver before detailing it.
I was hoping that someone would give me an example of a waiver that they use since I'm having trouble deciding how to word mine.
Thanks in advance,
Jason
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1ST REPLY FROM FRANK CANNA - (note: there were other replies from other members before my post)
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mirrorfinishman
Banned
Posts: 181
Post 07-12-2004 01:03 PM
It sounds like you're trying too hard to be 'all things to all people'. It has been my experience that less than one person out of a thousand will actually request anything to do with engine detailing. When I stop and think about it, I really can't remember the last time one of my customers requested engine detailing. That was probably a few years ago. When I do get a special request, I simply offer to just wipe down the engine compartment and I will only lift the hood while the customer is present and can see that I'm not using any water or chemicals.
__________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2ND REPLY FROM FRANK CANNA - (note: in this reply I was simply repeating all of the legal terms that had been mentioned in prior replies from other members)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mirrorfinishman
Banned
Posts: 181
Post 07-13-2004 03:43 PM
Being in the detailing business does not have to be about being sued, signing waivers, insurance claims, Mechanics Liens, litigation, legal actions, enforcing contracts, attorney's fees, court costs, pre-paid legal services, disclaimers, photographing every car from every angle, pre-estimate checklists, and not being liable for any damage that may occur.
Trust your customers and your customers will trust you.
__________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1ST REPLY FROM DC MODERATOR
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Fuzz
aka The Velvet Cowboy
Posts: 28931
07-13-2004 03:54 PM
Famous last words there. Trust nobody. You have to cover your butt. If you want to be a sucker and trust everybody, then you deserve it when someone takes advantage of you. Honest customers aren't going to be offended by a little legal mumbo jumbo. They will probably respect your professionalism and ability to CYA. Hire a lawyer to write a simple contract for you and that will save you a ton of trouble if someone decides they see a target painted on your chest.
Being a detailer may not have anything to do with any of that, but being in business is. Detailing is one thing, but business is war. You have to protect yourself. Don't be stupid in business. Get insurance, get a lawyer and have him write a contract with a damage waiver with notes in it.
Frank, if you don't have any kind of legal contract or insurance then I want to have my friends go to you. Someone that trusting needs to be taught a lesson about how the world works.
That's not really how I feel, but there are people out there who do feel that way. If you are going to go around unprotected then you might as well sleep around, share needles and drink the water. Don't live dangerously just because you think that your trusting nature is going to protect you from Montezuma's Revenge. It wont. Sorry to rain on the parade. I'm a realist and that is the way it is in the real world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3RD, AND LAST REPLY FROM FRANK CANNA
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mirrorfinishman
Banned
Posts: 181
Post 07-13-2004 04:28 PM
If you have a customer that you cannot trust, then they shouldn't be your customer.
Of course, when you lack integrity, confidence, reliability and responsibility for your own actions in the business of detailing, then you will have a greater need to protect yourself from everybody.
__________________
FRANK CANNA
Mirror Finish Detailing
Williamstown, NJ
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2ND REPLY FROM DC MODERATOR
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Fuzz
aka The Velvet Cowboy
Posts: 28931
Post 07-13-2004 04:35 PM
You don't get my trust just because you have a checkbook and want me to detail your car. My trust isn't for sale. I don't have time to date every one of my customers before I determine if they are trustworthy or not. And if you are implying that any of us lack integrity or confidence, then I seriously suggest you clarify what you just said. Especially if you directed that at me. Just because you are lucky enough to never be taken advantage of doesn't mean the rest of the world should live so wrecklessly. MacDonalds thought they could trust people too until someone spilled coffee on themselves and sued them. People thought they could trust cigarette companies until they started dying from cancer. We thought we could trust the sunshine until people started getting cancer.
Frank, how you have lived this long with that kind of menality is beyond me. I don't mean to be super offensive, but I am just shocked to the core right now. I've never met a 'professional' who didn't suggest getting some legal protection and insurance to back his work. People aren't trustworthy. Its great to be trusting, but there is no reason to be stupid.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3RD REPLY FROM DC MODERATOR
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Fuzz
aka The Velvet Cowboy
Posts: 28931
Post 07-13-2004 05:25 PM
The intellectual level of this thread isn't going good. To prevent anyone else from saying something like "you don't need any kind of contracts, insurance or legal protection at all in business", I am going to close the thread now. My head is still spinning because of that comment.... I gotta go to sleep now and maybe when I wake up, the world will be right again.
One other thing, Mr. Trusting.... If the world is so trustworthy, then why would you have THIS WHOLE BIG DISCLAIMER on your own website? 'smatter? Can't you just trust people that they aren't going to rip off your material and make money on it? The same people you wrote that for are the kind of people who take advantage of detailers without any kind of legal protection.
I also find it interesting that you posted you don't even offer engine detailing. Its easy to be all ballsy about not having a waiver or service agreement when you don't even trust yourself to do the tricky stuff. The fact that you don't even know how to do engine detailing should have kept you from posting in this thread to begin with. You are simply not qualified to give advice on what we need waivers for and what we don't.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, last post on this Topic.</HTML>
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 06:40PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH July 31, 2004 07:24PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
<HTML>It doesn't make sense to me...,
You say you make $50 an hour and are worried about posting on a forum directed basically at newbies.
Would it not make more business sense to spend the time working rather than spending all this time posting?
In my estimation, you have already lost at least $200
Be a wise businessman, go back to work and forget it..., obviously, you are not making $50/hr when posting, so why the worries?</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
You say you make $50 an hour and are worried about posting on a forum directed basically at newbies.
Would it not make more business sense to spend the time working rather than spending all this time posting?
In my estimation, you have already lost at least $200
Be a wise businessman, go back to work and forget it..., obviously, you are not making $50/hr when posting, so why the worries?</HTML>
"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
www.waynestowels.com
|
Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH August 02, 2004 02:30AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 73 |
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH August 02, 2004 03:11AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 107 |
<HTML>I skipped 1/2 of the posts here. Why? Because Frank Canna has done NOTHING but HELP me in ANY aspect of detailing that I ever needed help with! Between Brian A., Bud, and Frank, I have had EVERY SINGLE QUESTION answered on the board AND via Email! I try and do the same as they do for others when I have the knowledge, but to lose Frank would be absurd, especially on a board that is aimed AT detailing. Autopia is bullshit. I won't even register there. It's really dumb compared to this forum.
Frank: YOU ROCK MAN!!! KEEP ON KEEPIN ON!! And set the grammar straight! People oughta spell properly!</HTML>
Frank: YOU ROCK MAN!!! KEEP ON KEEPIN ON!! And set the grammar straight! People oughta spell properly!</HTML>
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH August 02, 2004 04:08AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>The phrase "People oughta spell properly" is bad grammar. Proper grammar is about writing and speaking and not so much about spelling.
Just seeking to be of help
On a more serious note I have no doubt that Frank is of a great help to others. He has a great deal of info to give others and I am glad he was able to help you out but I must ask why not read all the posts before you come to your conclusions, not on Frank as a person, but rather his actions?
Take care,
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
Just seeking to be of help
On a more serious note I have no doubt that Frank is of a great help to others. He has a great deal of info to give others and I am glad he was able to help you out but I must ask why not read all the posts before you come to your conclusions, not on Frank as a person, but rather his actions?
Take care,
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
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Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH August 03, 2004 12:45AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 30 |
|
Re: FRANK FRANK WHY ! PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH August 03, 2004 08:06PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 443 |
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.