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Best Commercial Wax
Posted by Anne Springer
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Re: Best Commercial Wax August 11, 2004 02:17PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>Okay, my car only is rough when I do the paint prep, or when NXT wears off. I have clayed the car and trust me, its smooth! I cannot get a towel to lay on the hood, or even my soap and water when washing. I just noticed the car was rougher a week or so after using the NXT. Maybe something else is going on...
I am still tossed as to what wax to use, you guys have suggested three or four of them. I know its best to use professional brands, so I think I will do some digging around this weekend and see what will work the best for what I need it to do, and go from there. I really like Mothers stuff, but I am also anxious to try Bud's line.
I should talk to Meguiar's; they gave me the free NXT in place of the Gold Class Wax and thus far, I see no difference and I am kinda annoyed!
Anne</HTML>
I am still tossed as to what wax to use, you guys have suggested three or four of them. I know its best to use professional brands, so I think I will do some digging around this weekend and see what will work the best for what I need it to do, and go from there. I really like Mothers stuff, but I am also anxious to try Bud's line.
I should talk to Meguiar's; they gave me the free NXT in place of the Gold Class Wax and thus far, I see no difference and I am kinda annoyed!
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Best Commercial Wax August 11, 2004 06:04PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Anne:
The reason your paint is rough is that you have not buffed out the paint with a cutting pad (wool or poly/wool) and a compound to eliminate the imperfections on the surface. If you do not do this your paint finish will always remain "rough".
Polishes; swirl removes; waxes and sealants do not contain any abrasives to eliminate the roughness on the paint finish.
Putting these over the rough finish is like pouring water in a bucket with a hole in it, you never get ahead.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
The reason your paint is rough is that you have not buffed out the paint with a cutting pad (wool or poly/wool) and a compound to eliminate the imperfections on the surface. If you do not do this your paint finish will always remain "rough".
Polishes; swirl removes; waxes and sealants do not contain any abrasives to eliminate the roughness on the paint finish.
Putting these over the rough finish is like pouring water in a bucket with a hole in it, you never get ahead.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Doug Delmont: August 11, 2004 10:46PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 243 |
<HTML>Doug,if you have the extra energy to go over the same vehicle 3 times,you may want to try Buda's "ONE-Step". It also has an ample amount of the Diamond Plus in it. This way you clean/seal and get a very good shine,plus long lasting protection when done. Use this same product with a fine foam buffing pad, and you can eleminate some minor Spider Webbing. This can all be done on a once over,and not a coat of this,that,and the other. Just trying to help you conserve energy. If you do try some of Buda's stuff,especially the ONE-STEP,be sure to use a very fine foam buffing pad,as I had to learn and experiment the hard way. Also when putting it on, for example,it will only take a drop about the size of a quarter,in four or five spots to do a full size vehicle hood......I hope i helped...Brandy!</HTML>
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Re: Doug Delmont: August 12, 2004 02:34AM |
<HTML> Brandy : Thanks for the recommendation. I haven't tried Bud's products yet but may soon. You may be right that his one-step product will produce the same results as Mother's three-step if that's what you are saying. There is some evidence to the contrary, though. Consumer Reports tested the three- step Mothers in one of their wax tests and it beat all of the one-step products overall---However--CR thought it was too much work for the slight improvement. I believe they worked by hand, though. An orbital buffer with foam pads and a supply of cotton bonnets should greatly ease the job.
Cleaner-wax or " one-step " products normally represent a compromise among features such as cleaning power, polishing oil content and durability.
Both systems have advantages. Cleaner-wax is the fastest way to get jobs done while a multi-step process should yield a better result and is unlikely to be duplicated by a customer working on his own car.
Doug
" It is hard to soar with the eagles if you stay up with the owls ".</HTML>
Cleaner-wax or " one-step " products normally represent a compromise among features such as cleaning power, polishing oil content and durability.
Both systems have advantages. Cleaner-wax is the fastest way to get jobs done while a multi-step process should yield a better result and is unlikely to be duplicated by a customer working on his own car.
Doug
" It is hard to soar with the eagles if you stay up with the owls ".</HTML>
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Re: Doug Delmont: August 12, 2004 02:50AM |
<HTML>Anne : Professionals often use " off-the-shelf " consumer products. Your personal preference will be a factor in any choice. Aside from Meguiar's,
I like, Malm's, Griot's, Duragloss and Mother's.
I was disappointed by TR-3 Resin Glaze, Quad, Turtle Wax Finish 2001, Eagle One Visual Perfection, Simoniz Liquid Carnauba, Simoniz Super Blue,
Nu Finish, Classic and Zymol Cleaner Wax among others.
Some of the one's I like are available in gallons for commercial use.
I especially disliked Black Magic Paint Protectant, by the way.
Reminder: Mother's sealER is not a sealANT. Try the waxes.
Doug</HTML>
I like, Malm's, Griot's, Duragloss and Mother's.
I was disappointed by TR-3 Resin Glaze, Quad, Turtle Wax Finish 2001, Eagle One Visual Perfection, Simoniz Liquid Carnauba, Simoniz Super Blue,
Nu Finish, Classic and Zymol Cleaner Wax among others.
Some of the one's I like are available in gallons for commercial use.
I especially disliked Black Magic Paint Protectant, by the way.
Reminder: Mother's sealER is not a sealANT. Try the waxes.
Doug</HTML>
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Re: Doug Delmont: August 12, 2004 03:18AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>Doug- I agree, Black Magic is worth nothing! I also highly dislike the Eagle One Spray On Wax. I usually don't buy into the quick waxes; this was before I became a "detailer" and needed a quick wax during the winter months. I think I will try some Mothers Cleaner Wax until I can afford better...
Bud- My car gets a little rougher when the NXT wears off, otherwise a quick wax or like my buffing will keep the car smooth as glass. I clay the car once in awhile, but my paint cleaner also does the trick if its feeling a little rough.
I don't know if I stated this earlier, the only reason why I just left the sealant/glaze on is because I am waiting to pick up a decent wax. It seems to be my car is swirl-free until I put wax on, and I was thinking it was the product causing the problem. And again, I just don't like the finish and protection that my Meguiars wax offers.
These posts have helped me at the very least determine which products to stay away from (such as Zymol), and which products are cheaper and easier to get hold of and do a good job (Mothers or S100). And as most of you suggested, I think I will go through them one by one and find my winner!
Anne</HTML>
Bud- My car gets a little rougher when the NXT wears off, otherwise a quick wax or like my buffing will keep the car smooth as glass. I clay the car once in awhile, but my paint cleaner also does the trick if its feeling a little rough.
I don't know if I stated this earlier, the only reason why I just left the sealant/glaze on is because I am waiting to pick up a decent wax. It seems to be my car is swirl-free until I put wax on, and I was thinking it was the product causing the problem. And again, I just don't like the finish and protection that my Meguiars wax offers.
These posts have helped me at the very least determine which products to stay away from (such as Zymol), and which products are cheaper and easier to get hold of and do a good job (Mothers or S100). And as most of you suggested, I think I will go through them one by one and find my winner!
Anne</HTML>
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Re: Doug Delmont & Anne Springer August 12, 2004 09:48AM |
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Re: Doug Delmont & Anne Springer August 12, 2004 12:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 243 |
<HTML>Just looking at the shine and saying that this stuff is better than that stuff,is as you say Frank, it ain't worth mentioning. Put a Glossimeter on the finish Product,to see what is and what isn't. Then get a lab to test your chemicals or buy One from Wayne or Bud,and maybe Ketch's Company sells the test results as well,I don't know. When you do this, it eleminates the Chest Thumpers from the real product Heroes. For what ever its worth,and to whom ever its worth, DetailPlus's Sealant,and One step is as good as anything else on the market, and better than 90% of the products. Priced to sell and buy,easy to use.
Anne; the truth is you need to buy a gallon af some professional quality detailing products. You won't be disappointed if you try some of Abraham's stuff. If you don't like it send the remainder to me, and I'll give your monie back. I've convinced a hard headed 3M guy,that these are good products,but he's a Party man,and probably going to vote Democrate again!
I hope this helps Anne.......................... Brandy !</HTML>
Anne; the truth is you need to buy a gallon af some professional quality detailing products. You won't be disappointed if you try some of Abraham's stuff. If you don't like it send the remainder to me, and I'll give your monie back. I've convinced a hard headed 3M guy,that these are good products,but he's a Party man,and probably going to vote Democrate again!
I hope this helps Anne.......................... Brandy !</HTML>
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BRANDY'S COMMENTS ABOUT TESTS August 12, 2004 02:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Brandy:
Good post. You are absolutely correct when you say that all the talk about which product has a better shine than another is totally subjective unless one has a Glossometer to measure reflective shine before and after the application of a product.
Certainly, people are entitled to their opinions, nobody is denying that, but the reality is, as you say, it is not possible to compare without the use of this scientific instrument because it is totally objective.
As for comparative tests. Some would feel that DETAIL PLUS commissioned our test for cynical reasons. Maybe that was true, however, more than that I have read on these forms so much posting about which product shines more and lasts longer that I too wanted to know how good Klasse; Zymol and Zaino Bros reallly were compared to others on the market.
All samples came from detailers from this and other forums.
Yes the Guru Report is a test, but as Ron K states often, what you have to read and understand are the testing protocols to determine, for yourself, if the tests were valid.
For example, testing for gloss using a Glossometer is completely objective as long as every product is tested in the same way.
The test for gloss retention is objective using the Glossometer if every product was washed the same way and tested the same way.
It is not that we sell the test, we only have to cover our costs for copying; assembly, envelops and postage.
As you know working in a high volume body shop with a detailing operation every step you take is money and it costs to do anything.
I think that sometimes, one person mobile detail operators do not realize how much their time is worth and that is why they charge too little and quibble over prices.
When you know your time is worth $50 per hour you do not waste it with things that are not profitable.
Glad you like our products I personally work hard to insure that we offer a limited but high quality line of products.
We are working on an improvement to our swirl remover polish that should be excellent.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Good post. You are absolutely correct when you say that all the talk about which product has a better shine than another is totally subjective unless one has a Glossometer to measure reflective shine before and after the application of a product.
Certainly, people are entitled to their opinions, nobody is denying that, but the reality is, as you say, it is not possible to compare without the use of this scientific instrument because it is totally objective.
As for comparative tests. Some would feel that DETAIL PLUS commissioned our test for cynical reasons. Maybe that was true, however, more than that I have read on these forms so much posting about which product shines more and lasts longer that I too wanted to know how good Klasse; Zymol and Zaino Bros reallly were compared to others on the market.
All samples came from detailers from this and other forums.
Yes the Guru Report is a test, but as Ron K states often, what you have to read and understand are the testing protocols to determine, for yourself, if the tests were valid.
For example, testing for gloss using a Glossometer is completely objective as long as every product is tested in the same way.
The test for gloss retention is objective using the Glossometer if every product was washed the same way and tested the same way.
It is not that we sell the test, we only have to cover our costs for copying; assembly, envelops and postage.
As you know working in a high volume body shop with a detailing operation every step you take is money and it costs to do anything.
I think that sometimes, one person mobile detail operators do not realize how much their time is worth and that is why they charge too little and quibble over prices.
When you know your time is worth $50 per hour you do not waste it with things that are not profitable.
Glad you like our products I personally work hard to insure that we offer a limited but high quality line of products.
We are working on an improvement to our swirl remover polish that should be excellent.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: BRANDY'S COMMENTS ABOUT TESTS August 12, 2004 03:54PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>I forgot all about the 3M Products! I saw they even offer a wax over at Pep Boys. But you're right, I really oughta try some of Bud's stuff. I'll try and put together some money for that next week... I have spent enough money this year on detailing supplies, its disgusting!
Anne</HTML>
Anne</HTML>
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Re: BRANDY'S COMMENTS ABOUT TESTS August 12, 2004 05:37PM |
<HTML> Anne : Re: 3M waxes ( stand by for another useless opinion, Frank ) , Consumer Reports and I agreed that their light cleaner wax didn't seem to last very long. I found their Show Car Wax more durable and easier to apply. Show Car Wax has only a token amount of cleaner in it , to assist in wiping it off. The shine is first rate but if it gets on vinyl trim, it stains it badly. 3M says their paste version lasts a little longer.
Their cleaner wax cleans beautifully but also will stain vinyl trim if you drip it. 3M is neither on my favorites list nor on my dissatisfied list. If you try it, see if you agree with my , um, opinions.
Doug
P.S. I used their light color car swirl remover with the liquid Show Car Wax over it with good results. Bud : You won't need a glossometer, you'll need sunglasses.</HTML>
Their cleaner wax cleans beautifully but also will stain vinyl trim if you drip it. 3M is neither on my favorites list nor on my dissatisfied list. If you try it, see if you agree with my , um, opinions.
Doug
P.S. I used their light color car swirl remover with the liquid Show Car Wax over it with good results. Bud : You won't need a glossometer, you'll need sunglasses.</HTML>
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Re: BRANDY'S COMMENTS ABOUT TESTS August 13, 2004 02:50AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>OK, some valid points made, some not so valid, so who is Doug Delmont, and what do you do?
Are you a detailer, a chemical supplier, a car care jobber, a chemist, a "what"?
Not attacking, just that "who are you", since most here make the point of saying who and what they do, etc.
ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
Are you a detailer, a chemical supplier, a car care jobber, a chemist, a "what"?
Not attacking, just that "who are you", since most here make the point of saying who and what they do, etc.
ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: BRANDY'S COMMENTS ABOUT TESTS August 13, 2004 04:01AM |
<HTML> Ketch : I don't intend to be drawn into one of those no-win contests about whether I went to college or am a chemist or whatever. If my opinions of products conflict with Anne's or anyone else's experiance, I'll be discredited soon enough. Suffice it to say that I have no financial interest in any product or supplier. The important qualification I have is that I try out lots of products and sometimes test them side-by-side so I have something to compare everything to. Since my test methods appear questionable, I'm only expressing opinions here. If I help someone, fine. Just watch out if I ever get hold of some of the sealants you guys are touting because they'll be going up against some strong competition from my favorites !
Doug
" Some people watch things happen. Some people make things happen. And some people wonder what happened . "</HTML>
Doug
" Some people watch things happen. Some people make things happen. And some people wonder what happened . "</HTML>
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Re: BRANDY'S COMMENTS ABOUT TESTS August 13, 2004 04:33AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Doug:
Ron is not attacking you personally, he is simply trying to point out to you and of course to those who read the forum, especially newbees to the industry that everything you are saying is strictly opinion. That is OK, everyone has their opinion.
But when you are dealing with something "scientific" like a chemical product there are definitive judgements that can be made if scientific, measurable tests are taken.
What you are doing to draw your opinions are in no way shape or form scientific.
You are not measuring gloss with a Glossometer.
You measuring durability with "water beading" and that has been proven that water beading does not mean that the car has protection on it since oil; kerosense; mineral spirits, solvent will all bead the water. Or, as someone pointed out earlier this week, after buffing a car with compound the water beaded very, very well. So that proves nothing.
If you are going to talk about your tests present something that is scientifically measurable. Nothing you are doing is scientifically measurable so far as I can determine by what you have said.
DETAILERS this is a good lesson for you. A great deal of time is wasted on this entire subject when it does not mean a thing to the consumer which product you use as long as the car is shiny and the scratches gone.
You need to spend more time discussing how to make your businesses more profitable, share those ideas and you all will be more successful. The more time you spend on subjects like this the more energy you waste on things that will not put a dime in your pocket.
Just my personal opinion as an operator of two detail centers for 10 years and a manufacturer and supplier to this industry for 35 years.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Ron is not attacking you personally, he is simply trying to point out to you and of course to those who read the forum, especially newbees to the industry that everything you are saying is strictly opinion. That is OK, everyone has their opinion.
But when you are dealing with something "scientific" like a chemical product there are definitive judgements that can be made if scientific, measurable tests are taken.
What you are doing to draw your opinions are in no way shape or form scientific.
You are not measuring gloss with a Glossometer.
You measuring durability with "water beading" and that has been proven that water beading does not mean that the car has protection on it since oil; kerosense; mineral spirits, solvent will all bead the water. Or, as someone pointed out earlier this week, after buffing a car with compound the water beaded very, very well. So that proves nothing.
If you are going to talk about your tests present something that is scientifically measurable. Nothing you are doing is scientifically measurable so far as I can determine by what you have said.
DETAILERS this is a good lesson for you. A great deal of time is wasted on this entire subject when it does not mean a thing to the consumer which product you use as long as the car is shiny and the scratches gone.
You need to spend more time discussing how to make your businesses more profitable, share those ideas and you all will be more successful. The more time you spend on subjects like this the more energy you waste on things that will not put a dime in your pocket.
Just my personal opinion as an operator of two detail centers for 10 years and a manufacturer and supplier to this industry for 35 years.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: BRANDY'S COMMENTS ABOUT TESTS August 13, 2004 12:00PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
<HTML>Get a spray bottle or small container of water, find a small dry patch of dry dirt that is on a small slope. Spray some water on it . Then watch the water bead up and roll down the hill, or even try it in the kitchen with some flour. Again, watch some of the water bead up as it comes in to contact with the flour.
What causes the water to bead up on flour or water ?
My yard has not been sealed with anything, nor does my wife use Teflon or wax when baking . So if water can bead up on an unprotected surface then what indication does water beading give that a wax or sealant is still protecting ?
Jim.</HTML>
What causes the water to bead up on flour or water ?
My yard has not been sealed with anything, nor does my wife use Teflon or wax when baking . So if water can bead up on an unprotected surface then what indication does water beading give that a wax or sealant is still protecting ?
Jim.</HTML>
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Re: BRANDY'S COMMENTS ABOUT TESTS August 13, 2004 05:06PM |
<HTML> Bud : If the customer doesn'care what we put on his car or care about durability, I can get some wax for $10 per gallon and be done with it. I find it strange that you and Ketch have not made explicit claims for the durability of your products ; out -lasts this or that in lab tests ; Still there after X-number of tunnel washes or X-number of hand washings ; lasted a given number of days on New York taxi cabs in summer.
( If you have made such claims and I missed them, I apologize. )
Note: It is well known that the hood is the first place to lose its wax because it is heated from above and below . Guess which part of the car stops beading water first ? Water can bead on various surfaces but it won't bead on my paint unless it is waxed so I suspect beading can mean something. I remind you that the " chemist's know " argument is a fallacy of logic called " the appeal to authority ".
At any rate, I have voluntarily refrained from publishing test results and have restricted myself to opinions, never represented as scientific.
Galileo was sentenced to death for saying the Earth rotates. His final statement on the matter was, " Yet it still turns !"
Doug
" Yet it still beads ! "</HTML>
( If you have made such claims and I missed them, I apologize. )
Note: It is well known that the hood is the first place to lose its wax because it is heated from above and below . Guess which part of the car stops beading water first ? Water can bead on various surfaces but it won't bead on my paint unless it is waxed so I suspect beading can mean something. I remind you that the " chemist's know " argument is a fallacy of logic called " the appeal to authority ".
At any rate, I have voluntarily refrained from publishing test results and have restricted myself to opinions, never represented as scientific.
Galileo was sentenced to death for saying the Earth rotates. His final statement on the matter was, " Yet it still turns !"
Doug
" Yet it still beads ! "</HTML>
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Re: BRANDY'S COMMENTS ABOUT TESTS August 13, 2004 06:38PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Doug:
Let me clarify the statement, "the customer does not care what is used as long as it has some durability and shine."
Yes, you could probably cheat the customer and give them a cheap wax, and they would not know the difference. They will believe what you say since they trust you.
I have numerous times on this forum and others indicated that the "one" product we recommend for protection, DIAMOND PLUS which is a paint sealant will last up to 6 months under the best conditions which are driving in a non-polluted climate area; no salt air; only on sunny days; only a few days a week and you do not wash the car every week.
When we sold a fine carnuaba wax I indicated it lasted about 30 to 45 days under the best conditions.
Doug what is your point about quoting all these people and their quotes? We professionals know that chemical companies can, and do say a great many things that are not true. Griot's Garage is certainly not any authority. They are a mail order automotive accessories catalog company that is in the marketing business, nothing more. They only say what their chemical suppliers tell them.
Are you sure you are not Chris Gaines? You style is very reminesent of his constant postings on the same subject time and time again.
Let's move on this is a dead subject.
Bud ABraham</HTML>
buda
Let me clarify the statement, "the customer does not care what is used as long as it has some durability and shine."
Yes, you could probably cheat the customer and give them a cheap wax, and they would not know the difference. They will believe what you say since they trust you.
I have numerous times on this forum and others indicated that the "one" product we recommend for protection, DIAMOND PLUS which is a paint sealant will last up to 6 months under the best conditions which are driving in a non-polluted climate area; no salt air; only on sunny days; only a few days a week and you do not wash the car every week.
When we sold a fine carnuaba wax I indicated it lasted about 30 to 45 days under the best conditions.
Doug what is your point about quoting all these people and their quotes? We professionals know that chemical companies can, and do say a great many things that are not true. Griot's Garage is certainly not any authority. They are a mail order automotive accessories catalog company that is in the marketing business, nothing more. They only say what their chemical suppliers tell them.
Are you sure you are not Chris Gaines? You style is very reminesent of his constant postings on the same subject time and time again.
Let's move on this is a dead subject.
Bud ABraham</HTML>
buda
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For Anne Springer August 14, 2004 03:11AM |
<HTML>Anne: I'm trying some Duragloss CCP, which I applied today next to some NXT. The NXT appears to have a slight advantage in gloss and depth and is slightly easier to apply. The NXT also seems slipperier and should do a better job of keeping bugs from adhering to the paint.
The squeak test failed as the towel squeaks on the fresh Duragloss but not on the NXT.
If the Duragloss beats NXT in long term durability and retention of its properties, it will be vindicated. As of now, NXT has the edge *
* This is a statement of opinion only. These claims have not been evaluated by any chemist. Not responsible for any irritation or debate sparked by unsubstantiated and preliminary observations.
Doug
Bud : The 6 Mo. max sounds good. Is Diamond Plus sold in pints so I can try it out without having to marry it ?
Doug</HTML>
The squeak test failed as the towel squeaks on the fresh Duragloss but not on the NXT.
If the Duragloss beats NXT in long term durability and retention of its properties, it will be vindicated. As of now, NXT has the edge *
* This is a statement of opinion only. These claims have not been evaluated by any chemist. Not responsible for any irritation or debate sparked by unsubstantiated and preliminary observations.
Doug
Bud : The 6 Mo. max sounds good. Is Diamond Plus sold in pints so I can try it out without having to marry it ?
Doug</HTML>
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Re: For Anne Springer August 14, 2004 06:33AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1 |
<HTML>AS a NON-professional, I just want to put the best protection on auto paint (Toyota Camry and Chevy Express Van, both white). I want to not worry about UV, chemicals in the air, bird droppings, acid rain, etc.
I know washing every couple of weeks (not at the car wash) and waxing regularly, every _____? (my guess 2-3 months) Now here is the question.
What wax will last the longest to protect the paint from the above mentioned. I am not concerned about feeling rough, gloss, beading, sheeting. I am concerned about paint protection form the elements. BOth vehicles are parked outside in north Georgia. Some sap finds its way onto vehicles in the drive. Neither vehicle is "worth" putting a cover on. I just want to protect the paint and not have it oxidized away too rapidly.
Thanks in advance for your answers to this non professional approach.
Larry</HTML>
Larry Millard
I know washing every couple of weeks (not at the car wash) and waxing regularly, every _____? (my guess 2-3 months) Now here is the question.
What wax will last the longest to protect the paint from the above mentioned. I am not concerned about feeling rough, gloss, beading, sheeting. I am concerned about paint protection form the elements. BOth vehicles are parked outside in north Georgia. Some sap finds its way onto vehicles in the drive. Neither vehicle is "worth" putting a cover on. I just want to protect the paint and not have it oxidized away too rapidly.
Thanks in advance for your answers to this non professional approach.
Larry</HTML>
Larry Millard
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Re: For Anne Springer August 14, 2004 07:09AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Larry,
From my experience of using different waxes and sealants, here are my choices for sealants & paste waxes:
Dolphinite's "T-Wax Sealant"
Detail Plus' "Diamond Plus"
3M's Ultra Perormance Paste Wax
These tend to offer the longest protection.
Ron K. on here from Auto International has a Paint Sealant (which I haven't tried yet) that is a warranty product and part of New Car Protection programs.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
From my experience of using different waxes and sealants, here are my choices for sealants & paste waxes:
Dolphinite's "T-Wax Sealant"
Detail Plus' "Diamond Plus"
3M's Ultra Perormance Paste Wax
These tend to offer the longest protection.
Ron K. on here from Auto International has a Paint Sealant (which I haven't tried yet) that is a warranty product and part of New Car Protection programs.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: For Anne Springer August 14, 2004 03:04PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>It is not what is "on" the bottle, but what is" in "the bottle.
By that, I mean one must learn some basic chemistry, what resins are what resins, what is the difference between a polydimethalsiloxane and a polyaminosiloxane, or a even stronger resin, flurotelmar resins.
Then, what "solvents" are in a product, what of many "polishing" agents and their rate of agressivness are.
One must understand what makes a resin cure, the percentage of the resin, how it may react favorably or unfavorably with the selected solvent used, etc.
Then, there is the "enviorment" in which a product will be "living" in once it is applied.
How about,another variable, like was the product installed exactly per manufacturer's directions, was a silicone loaded polish applied to the surface before the "sealant" was applied. This alone can adversly affect the longivity of a product.
So, by the application of some chemical logic, understanding the various components in a product, how other components in other products may affect those, etc, etc, reading and understanding CAS#'s, MSDS's, etc, the path to true understanding of this subject is started.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
By that, I mean one must learn some basic chemistry, what resins are what resins, what is the difference between a polydimethalsiloxane and a polyaminosiloxane, or a even stronger resin, flurotelmar resins.
Then, what "solvents" are in a product, what of many "polishing" agents and their rate of agressivness are.
One must understand what makes a resin cure, the percentage of the resin, how it may react favorably or unfavorably with the selected solvent used, etc.
Then, there is the "enviorment" in which a product will be "living" in once it is applied.
How about,another variable, like was the product installed exactly per manufacturer's directions, was a silicone loaded polish applied to the surface before the "sealant" was applied. This alone can adversly affect the longivity of a product.
So, by the application of some chemical logic, understanding the various components in a product, how other components in other products may affect those, etc, etc, reading and understanding CAS#'s, MSDS's, etc, the path to true understanding of this subject is started.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: For Anne Springer August 14, 2004 07:50PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 237 |
<HTML>Ketch says: "what is the difference between a polydimethalsiloxane and a polyaminosiloxane"
Being dyslexic, I'm having enough trouble spotting the differences between the two WORDS, let alone the chemicals!
But seriously, I'd love the lowdown on all this stuff. Where the hell can you learn it all? If somebody wrote a text book, I'd buy it!!!</HTML>
Being dyslexic, I'm having enough trouble spotting the differences between the two WORDS, let alone the chemicals!
But seriously, I'd love the lowdown on all this stuff. Where the hell can you learn it all? If somebody wrote a text book, I'd buy it!!!</HTML>
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Re: For Anne Springer August 14, 2004 08:22PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
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Re: For Anne Springer August 14, 2004 09:15PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 237 |
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Re: For Anne Springer August 14, 2004 11:08PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>Dan, the public libary has many books on chemistry.
How about once you learn the bases of each, you then explore the thousands of variations of each.
Then move to waxes, natural and synthetic, from parafin's, to carnuaba's, both natural and the better synthetic, to bee's wax, other man made synthetic waxes, like the polyethelene family, etc.
Look at "melt or fracture" points, what is required to blend them into a paste or liquid wax form.
Then we move to surfactantes, hydrocarbon solvents, emulsifiers,
bactericides, etc.
We may then move onto various "plastics" used to produce certain trim and interior parts, from ABS, to TPO, external and internal release agents, the same with rubber parts.
Oh, and the paint, let's not forget the paint!!!
That is about a 10 year graduate course.
And yet everyone who puts some product on a vehicle is an expert?
I love this business!!!
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
How about once you learn the bases of each, you then explore the thousands of variations of each.
Then move to waxes, natural and synthetic, from parafin's, to carnuaba's, both natural and the better synthetic, to bee's wax, other man made synthetic waxes, like the polyethelene family, etc.
Look at "melt or fracture" points, what is required to blend them into a paste or liquid wax form.
Then we move to surfactantes, hydrocarbon solvents, emulsifiers,
bactericides, etc.
We may then move onto various "plastics" used to produce certain trim and interior parts, from ABS, to TPO, external and internal release agents, the same with rubber parts.
Oh, and the paint, let's not forget the paint!!!
That is about a 10 year graduate course.
And yet everyone who puts some product on a vehicle is an expert?
I love this business!!!
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: For Anne Springer August 15, 2004 04:53AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: For Anne Springer August 15, 2004 09:55PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 147 |
<HTML>Dyslexics of the world: untie! hehe
A little late posting again...
Doug- thanks for the test. I think I've seen Duragloss mentioned here and there.
I just used some of Mother's Cleaner Carnuba Wax yesterday and it'll be interesting to see the results of that. I noticed my Meguiar's Step 3 carnuba wax is pretty much off the hood of the car, and its been 2-3 weeks. I say this because it was rougher, duller and the it didn't bead well. I think I'm ditching this brand once and for all!
I think I'm going to try 3M's show stuff (I think its called), or bear it and buy Bud's stuff. Just a lot of money, and a too big quantity for me!
Anne</HTML>
A little late posting again...
Doug- thanks for the test. I think I've seen Duragloss mentioned here and there.
I just used some of Mother's Cleaner Carnuba Wax yesterday and it'll be interesting to see the results of that. I noticed my Meguiar's Step 3 carnuba wax is pretty much off the hood of the car, and its been 2-3 weeks. I say this because it was rougher, duller and the it didn't bead well. I think I'm ditching this brand once and for all!
I think I'm going to try 3M's show stuff (I think its called), or bear it and buy Bud's stuff. Just a lot of money, and a too big quantity for me!
Anne</HTML>
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