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Wax Test Fair ?

Posted by Doug Delmont 
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Doug Delmont
Wax Test Fair ?
September 17, 2004 04:56AM
<HTML> Bud described a laboratory study of 25 waxes and sealants in posts on 5/2/04 and 8/8/04 .
From reading his posts, it appears the waxes were applied over bare surfaces and without any accompanying polish or cleaner.
Some of the waxes tested were intended to be used as part of a multi-step process . Unless one uses the prescribed cleaner and polish before applying such products , it is unfair to compare these " pure waxes " to one-step products.
This is a flaw I never allow in my own tests.
Zymol Carbon rated 24th out of 25 waxes for increase in gloss in the lab test cited by Bud . When Consumer Reports tested the Zymol multi-step system , it out-shined all of the one-step products they tested that time.
Unless I'm mistaken , the lab test Bud is endorsing is like comparing pure base motor oil to oil with its additive package .
If I'm wrong, please explain .
Doug</HTML>
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waynestowels
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 18, 2004 10:01PM
<HTML>I have to agree with you...,
However, there is no "perfect wax test", someone will always find a flaw.

I prefer to conduct my own tests to see for myself what works and what is not a quality product.

There are soooo maaany products on the market and everyone has different needs and live in different climates that there is not, IMO, a "perfect" wax for everyone...

Just my .02smiling smiley</HTML>



&quot;The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.&quot;

www.waynestowels.com
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Rod W.
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 19, 2004 04:36AM
<HTML>I completely agree with you Wayne. There are so many variables that I think it's really impossible to say one wax or sealant outshines, outlasts all the others. The only way to ever to this test fairly would be to take every wax/sealant on the market today and test them in every climate from the Florida Keys to Fairbanks, Alaska using identical application methods on every type of vehicle made and actually running 2 tests...with the products alone and used with the accompanying products that comprise their system(s). To do it any other way is to compare eyeballs to earlobes.

And for that matter, considering that it's pretty much a given that waxes last 30-60 days and sealants, 4-6 months and they all behave in similar fashion as far as how they protect, then what's really being tested? The degree of gloss or shine? The depth of shine? How slick the surface is? How long the water beads or sheets off the car?

Since you need a glossometer to measure the shine, I hardly think the average consumer is even going to notice any difference at all. In fact, to the naked eye, I really don't think anyone can tell any discernible difference after the product has been on the car for 2 weeks and been through a couple of car washes, thunderstorms, etc.

What I'd like to see is some testing for us professionals as to which products are the easiest to use (easy on/off, leaves no residue on mouldings, etc.) and offer adequate resiliency.</HTML>



Shine On!

Rod Wesley
Touch Up 'N' Go!
Auto &amp; Marine Appearance Center
We take your car from Rough to Buff!
Visit our website at: www.touchupngo.com
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Bill Doyle
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 19, 2004 02:11PM
<HTML>Doug,

Right on! I had an issue with a similar comparison between NXT and Zaino over on Meguiarsonline.com Two dissimilar sealants applied to unpolished finishes. Sure seemed like an apples to oranges comparison to me and I don't even use or have any interest in using these two products.</HTML>
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waynestowels
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 19, 2004 08:35PM
<HTML>Bill,
I agree!!
A lot of the "tests" are slanted to give the testing party an edge...,
Products not applied as directed(such as using ZFX in Zaino, not proper application, the finish not properly prepped, etc, etc...

I have looked at several pics where NXT looks so much better on the car when making a comparision..., the "problem" is, when they take the pic, the "competitors" side was not prepped and directly in the sun spot in the pic, etc, etc..., and the "other brand" is Not in the sun spot so you can not truely compare the two, prep work and other advantages also given...
Lots of things happening behind the scenes not making for a level playing field on the "side by side" comparisions..., heck- you do not even know for sure what products were actually applied as there is no real accountability, just a pic someone took!!</HTML>



&quot;The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.&quot;

www.waynestowels.com
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Bud Abraham
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 19, 2004 11:57PM
<HTML>Doug:

If you would have gotten a copy of the test and read it you would know the protocols and how the tests were conducted.

First, the ability of the wax or sealant to shine a surface was measured, scientifically, with a Glossometer. The same instrument used by the auto manufacturers; paint companies and even detail chemical developers to determine the reflective shine off a surface.

All products were subject to the same exact testing protocols. The paint car surface was tested for gloss before the application of the product and a reading taken. Then the surface was tested with the Glossometer after the application. You either have an increase or it remains the same.

The conclusion that can be reached from this test is that certain products are formulated to provide more shine than others. Or, simply that some provide more shine than others. No magic, no wizardry, just basic chemistry. You want more shine, you put more ingredients in the wax/sealant that will make it shine. But, it so happens, that the more shiny a product is, the less durable it is, that has to do with the ingredients, nothing more.

The test then subjected these same test areas to 12 washings and then measured the reflective shine with the Glossometer to determine the increase or decrease in shine.

As you can see, the gloss test was conducted, not on unpainted panels but on a painted automobile.

CORROSION TEST

This is where you are confused, the corrosion test was conducted with non-painted panels in order to determine how quickly rust appears on the panel when misted with salt water. The point of the test was to determine how durable the products were.

Misting salt water on unpainted panels that had the various products applied to them provided a constant that all products were subjected to.

They even misted a panel (the control panel) which had no product applied to it to see how much rusting occurred. As you will note in the test results some panels with product applied were more rusty than the control panel and others had about as much rust as the control panel.

The reason for this phenomenun it was concluded by testers was that some products have ingredients that hold water on the surface more than others. As a result more rust will occur.

Keep in mind the intent of the corrosion test was not actually to see which product provided more protection if applied to an unpainted panel. Obviously, automotive waxes and sealants are not used in that way.

The purpose of this test was to show which products, given the same test standard were more resistent to salt water and prevented rust in the test situation.

That would provide a user then some standard to determine if a product is durable or not.

Other tests on sealant and wax products can tell to what acidic pH they will resist. Which gives the user some indication of the kind of temporary protection a wax/sealant will offer against acid rain. Certainly NO sealant/wax will permanently protect against acid rain.

Hopefully this will clear up the confusion you and others have about this test and testing done by all companies when determining the shine or durablity of their products. Many companies do not conduct such tests because they are expensive.

To be frank Doug, you are "blowing smoke" if you think that any test you conduct can hold a candle to a scientifically controlled test as described.

That is why there are testing laboratories and why companies spend millions to have independent tests done on products, to gain scientific knowledge.

But, if you want to believe your tests give you something to based your buying decisions on, then by all means continue your testing. As they say, people in tests given placebos sometimes report the same results as persons given the actual drug. The power of suggestions is mighty powerful. But facts and facts and science is science.


Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>



buda
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waynestowels
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 20, 2004 07:28PM
<HTML>Have you tried 5 Star Shine?

According to their tests, their product is the best...
[www.5starshine.com]

Lad tested, Navy Approved, Patented Formula, etc, etc...

C'mon, LOL!!!
Every manufacturer that has a test is going to say their product is the best, just marketing and advertising...

I don't mean to bust your bubble, but the "test" was for DetailPlus and financed by DetailPlus..., who did you expect to come out on top, LOL!!

Let's get realsmiling smiley

IMO, it is just another advertisment, but one that consumers and detailers pay for, similar to the advertisment in the link above.

As a matter of fact, I can not think of any advertisments or marketing ploy's that say their product is substandard..., they all say, according to "their tests" that "their" product is best..., common sense?</HTML>



&quot;The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.&quot;

www.waynestowels.com
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New Again
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 20, 2004 08:12PM
<HTML>OUTSTANDING POINTS WAYNE !!!!!!!!!!!!!</HTML>



WE DON'T USE THE &quot;F-WORD&quot; YA KNOW &quot;FREE&quot; A M.O.B BUSINESS
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waynestowels
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 20, 2004 08:29PM
<HTML>Maybe we should all get people to "purchase" our advertising in a "creative way", LOL!!!

Looks like someone is trying to "preach" what is best..., AND have you pay cash to read it...., WOW!!! what a plansmiling smiley

I bet all the folks that send out flyers in the newspaper would really love it if we all paid for them instead of it being in their advertising budget and out of their pockets...,

Bud, IMO, is a marketing genioussmiling smiley</HTML>



&quot;The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.&quot;

www.waynestowels.com
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Ron Ketcham
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 20, 2004 08:33PM
<HTML>Well then, here is question for you.

If a company makes a product, but desires to resell it under private label to another company, and that other company requires protocal correct, blind lab and other testing, before purchasing and marketing the product, is that the same?

In this senerio, there is not the conditions you laid out.

Ketch</HTML>



Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Lawrence Albrecht
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 20, 2004 09:45PM
<HTML>My own wax testing is very informal. When I go to car shows and I see some outstanding finishes on cars I ask the people what they use, somethimes they tell you somethimes they dont , but after a few years doing this you get a pretty good idea on what works and what dont.</HTML>
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Bud Abraham
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 20, 2004 11:09PM
<HTML>Fellas:

What difference does it make whether a test is fair or not fair? Does this really make a difference in the success or failure of your detail business?

Not really, as I pointed out on another posting.

Why waste time discussing things that do not matter. You do not have to pay any attention to the test. You do not have to believe the results and certainly you do not have to buy the product.

So why waste time on such incidential discussions that are not going to help your business.

We did the test to allow detailers to see how a number of products they were using measured up. This was especially done to show that these boutique products like Zymol; Zaino Bros and Klasse were not any better or worse than others being used and certainly were not worth the high prices being asked by these companies.

I have been in the detail business long enough and have enough respect for detailers that I would not even try to sell you on my products based on a test that our company commissioned.

You will buy my products if you want to. You will buy them because another detail says he likes them. You will buy my products if you trust me, not because the product might shown well on a test that I commissioned.

But, I can tell you that the protocols used for the tests were legitimate and accurate.

In any case, I would not waste your time deciding if mine or anyone else's tests are fair or not. Does not make you a single penny.

REgards
Bud Abraham</HTML>



buda
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David R
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 21, 2004 05:22PM
<HTML>I've have both Bud's Test and also the GuruReports.org wax test.

Both tested with what they felt was important and also with what resources were available to each.

Sure I would like to have seen more tests with both, but GuruReports.org downgraded some products just based upon the availablity or ease of obtaining. To me that doesn't affect the products abilities, but they obviously felt that was an important factor in scoring a wax.

Collinite for example was an editors choice with Guru and overall scored quite well, but didn't make their top partially because of being able to find it. Bud's test showed Collinite scored as well as Zaino and Diamond Plus in corrosion resistance, but the glossmeter told a different story. In the end both tests showed Collinite scored well in my opinion for what type of product I want.

My point is just as other's have already stated, there is no one perfect product. Find what features matter to you in a product and try it.

And I also believe both tests have their merits. Gurureports puts the waxes to a realworld test by applying on panels, though I do question the control of it. And Bud's test are more on a scientific level exploring the things we can't see but ultimately matter. Glossmeters and Corrosion tests. For example does no beading mean a total loss of protection........smiling smiley</HTML>



David
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Scott Perkin
Re: Wax Test Fair ?
September 21, 2004 05:42PM
<HTML>This is ridiculous. Who !#$$#R$% cares? If you don't like Bud's test - ignore its results and make your own conclusions. If everyone here spent half as much time working on building their business as they do debating this product or that product they would be far further ahead than they are today.</HTML>

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