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Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior
Posted by VinceB
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Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 15, 2005 10:44PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 2 |
<HTML>Is it safe to use a Steam or Vapor cleaner on the exterior of a car. I am considering a portable Vapor unit (Daimer or Therma-Kleen) but I am concerned about the longterm effects of high heat on the exterior paint. I believe the one unit is 240 degrees and the other is closer to 300. Anyone have any experience (or opinion) on this?
Thanks,
Vince</HTML>
Thanks,
Vince</HTML>
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 16, 2005 12:21AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 64 |
<HTML>We use Vapor steamers within our operations on just about anything and everything. On paint you will be fine as long as you don't overheat the surface. Be careful on plastics and on trim that looks like chrome...its really a filmed plastic also. We are careful any time we use heat on anything. Paint is heat cured but again, I like to error on the side of safety.
One some sap, the steam will lift the sap right off. In our Idaho office we have Cottonwood trees and the sap from these trees are nasty. If we catch the sap when fresh, the steam will lift the sap right off. What do you use your steamer on now if I may ask?</HTML>
Renny Doyle
Attention To Details
Aircraft & Auto Detailing
www.detailingsuccess.com
Proud Detailers of Air Force One!
PDTA Member
One some sap, the steam will lift the sap right off. In our Idaho office we have Cottonwood trees and the sap from these trees are nasty. If we catch the sap when fresh, the steam will lift the sap right off. What do you use your steamer on now if I may ask?</HTML>
Renny Doyle
Attention To Details
Aircraft & Auto Detailing
www.detailingsuccess.com
Proud Detailers of Air Force One!
PDTA Member
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 16, 2005 12:43AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 210 |
<HTML>I also am seriously considering purchasing a vapor steam cleaner, but will it really improve the speed in which I can get interiors done? I've read from various opinions, that hand cleaning the interior with compressed air and a good cleaner, followed by wiping, will get the job done much quicker than using steam. (This is the procedure I currently use). I have the hot water extractor and all the various detailing brushes, so I don't know if a steam cleaner would really make any time saving difference. Your opinion would be much appreciated. Thanks!</HTML>
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 16, 2005 02:22AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 64 |
<HTML>Mark,
I feel the air purging is not near as effective. Years ago we too used this method and we noted on repeat business the forced air made things a little "loose" after several details and that worried me. Once you use steam you will never go back. The steam cleans without chemicals a great deal of the time and that alone saves us a ton of money. We do over 2500 high end auto details a year and we could not survive without the units. We have used, tested and abused just about every brand out there...let me know if you need imput on the best units. Email or call me at any time...</HTML>
Renny Doyle
Attention To Details
Aircraft & Auto Detailing
www.detailingsuccess.com
Proud Detailers of Air Force One!
PDTA Member
I feel the air purging is not near as effective. Years ago we too used this method and we noted on repeat business the forced air made things a little "loose" after several details and that worried me. Once you use steam you will never go back. The steam cleans without chemicals a great deal of the time and that alone saves us a ton of money. We do over 2500 high end auto details a year and we could not survive without the units. We have used, tested and abused just about every brand out there...let me know if you need imput on the best units. Email or call me at any time...</HTML>
Renny Doyle
Attention To Details
Aircraft & Auto Detailing
www.detailingsuccess.com
Proud Detailers of Air Force One!
PDTA Member
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 16, 2005 03:50AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 505 |
<HTML>I have only one or two things to add to this.
One being that on a plane or large truck, the paint finish is much more of a robust resin system than used on the common vehicle most drive.
These types of finishes are very prone to "thermal stressing" of the clear, as evidenced by what happens to many GM, DCX and some imports which have been subjected to conditions of "high heat", followed by "low temperatures".
This condition is addressed in the SAE paper written some years ago, and to my current knowledge, may still be a concern to consider.
If used on an Imron or Centuri type of 2 part expoxy finishes, should not be a concern.
The reason that it may be a concern is that modern high solid/low solvent finishes used on the common car/pickup, are very easily "thermal stressed", and as a result, may exhibit "cracking" of the clear.
At first, this condition may appear as "scratches" or "marring", but on a closer inspection, using the all important 30X lighted magnifier, one will observe that it is not these common conditions, but the clear has cracked in a way that on the first look appears to be scratches or marring.
Plastics are created from polymers, polymers are the bases of not only a modern clear coat, but even the base coat, etc.
Think of this, "if you heat a piece of plastic", it "softens", IE, "expands", and when you "cool" it, contraction takes place. Do this enough, and it is like "bending a piece of wire" until it breaks.
That "breaking" is the result of "stressing" the molecular structure.
It is not rocket science, just plan old logic applied to the chemistry of polymers.
So, there is a thought or two to consider.
The use of a "vapor/steam" unit on a vehicle's surface once or even twice, will not likely create any damage, that you may see, and perhaps, never.
However, if conditions are right and this type of cleaning is done regularly, I would question the long term results.
Not saying that I am 100% correct, but based upon my years working with these high solid/low solvent materials, it does happen.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
One being that on a plane or large truck, the paint finish is much more of a robust resin system than used on the common vehicle most drive.
These types of finishes are very prone to "thermal stressing" of the clear, as evidenced by what happens to many GM, DCX and some imports which have been subjected to conditions of "high heat", followed by "low temperatures".
This condition is addressed in the SAE paper written some years ago, and to my current knowledge, may still be a concern to consider.
If used on an Imron or Centuri type of 2 part expoxy finishes, should not be a concern.
The reason that it may be a concern is that modern high solid/low solvent finishes used on the common car/pickup, are very easily "thermal stressed", and as a result, may exhibit "cracking" of the clear.
At first, this condition may appear as "scratches" or "marring", but on a closer inspection, using the all important 30X lighted magnifier, one will observe that it is not these common conditions, but the clear has cracked in a way that on the first look appears to be scratches or marring.
Plastics are created from polymers, polymers are the bases of not only a modern clear coat, but even the base coat, etc.
Think of this, "if you heat a piece of plastic", it "softens", IE, "expands", and when you "cool" it, contraction takes place. Do this enough, and it is like "bending a piece of wire" until it breaks.
That "breaking" is the result of "stressing" the molecular structure.
It is not rocket science, just plan old logic applied to the chemistry of polymers.
So, there is a thought or two to consider.
The use of a "vapor/steam" unit on a vehicle's surface once or even twice, will not likely create any damage, that you may see, and perhaps, never.
However, if conditions are right and this type of cleaning is done regularly, I would question the long term results.
Not saying that I am 100% correct, but based upon my years working with these high solid/low solvent materials, it does happen.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 16, 2005 07:17AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>The vapor steamer does not replace hand scrubbing or extracting it is in addition to....
I would never use the vapor steam on the dashboard or door panels as there is just too much electronic "stuff" that can get damaged.
If you use it on the "leather" seats in today's vehicles you are looking for trouble too.
As we have discussed here, the coating on automotive leather is nothing but paint. The color is not in the leather, but on the leather and it will come off.
Just spoke to a leather expert today and he resented the leather in cars being call leather because it is literally painted and then coated.
I like steamers for cleaning stains and spots off carpets and fabric upholstery, second to none.
For cleaning map pockets, ashtrays; door panel side pockets. But never on leather nor the dash.
You could use it on really tarred up interior windows; on tough to clean wheels even some areas of the engine.
But do not pay $1400 or more for a unit. You can get a nice unit for under $500. A hand held unit for under $100.
They serve a purpose and should be in every detailers arsenal of cleaning tools.
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
I would never use the vapor steam on the dashboard or door panels as there is just too much electronic "stuff" that can get damaged.
If you use it on the "leather" seats in today's vehicles you are looking for trouble too.
As we have discussed here, the coating on automotive leather is nothing but paint. The color is not in the leather, but on the leather and it will come off.
Just spoke to a leather expert today and he resented the leather in cars being call leather because it is literally painted and then coated.
I like steamers for cleaning stains and spots off carpets and fabric upholstery, second to none.
For cleaning map pockets, ashtrays; door panel side pockets. But never on leather nor the dash.
You could use it on really tarred up interior windows; on tough to clean wheels even some areas of the engine.
But do not pay $1400 or more for a unit. You can get a nice unit for under $500. A hand held unit for under $100.
They serve a purpose and should be in every detailers arsenal of cleaning tools.
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 16, 2005 04:20PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 210 |
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 16, 2005 05:13PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 64 |
<HTML>Ron and Bud both make great points. We use the steamers very little on automotive exterior surfaces, maybe 3-4% of the time and NEVER on aircraft finishes. The resins of aircraft finishes can be damaged to easy and I am simply to chicken to even go there even with our experiance within the aviation industry. As for using on dashes, I disagree with the above statement. These units do a fantistic job on the dash and the user simply needs to use extreme care around electronics such as radios and any type of control buttons. We have detailed thousands of vehicles utilizing a simple system built around steamers. This systems includes "complete" carpet and interior detailing. When used within a system that includes a basic extractor, your quality is greatly improved or at least ours as been! As for leather, water is a terrible lube on leather so I would advise not to use just plain water or steam on these surfaces. As for quality steamers, you get what you pay for. The five hundred dollar units we have tested (and its been a ton of them) are residential units and simply fall apart when used within a professional setting such as detailing. I feel you are much better off spending $600.00 on an extractor and $1,200.00-2,000.00 on a high performance steamer. We just opend a shop in Palm Springs California and our lead detailer was from the same school as Bud on steamers...after a couple days with our staff...he has had a huge change of professional opion. You gotta think out of the box guys...you can lead or you can follow?</HTML>
Renny Doyle
Attention To Details
Aircraft & Auto Detailing
www.detailingsuccess.com
Proud Detailers of Air Force One!
PDTA Member
Renny Doyle
Attention To Details
Aircraft & Auto Detailing
www.detailingsuccess.com
Proud Detailers of Air Force One!
PDTA Member
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 16, 2005 11:34PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 2 |
<HTML>
What do you use your steamer on now if I may ask?
Renny,
.
Thank you (and others) for your feedback.
.
Actually I do not own a steam or vapor cleaner at this time. I was considering the purchase of a vapor cleaner for simply washing cars. I know it seems like a big investment but I have been weighing the benefits such as minimal run-off, speed to clean, and possibly a drought buster (although I am not sure about this) since it operates on very little water.
.
My biggest concern is the high heat and the effect on exterior paint. I have to wonder though how hot a cars surface gets sitting in the high sun in southern states. I imagine it gets pretty hot.
.
I am planning to go and see one in action later this week.
.
Thanks again for your input on this topic.
Vince</HTML>
What do you use your steamer on now if I may ask?
Renny,
.
Thank you (and others) for your feedback.
.
Actually I do not own a steam or vapor cleaner at this time. I was considering the purchase of a vapor cleaner for simply washing cars. I know it seems like a big investment but I have been weighing the benefits such as minimal run-off, speed to clean, and possibly a drought buster (although I am not sure about this) since it operates on very little water.
.
My biggest concern is the high heat and the effect on exterior paint. I have to wonder though how hot a cars surface gets sitting in the high sun in southern states. I imagine it gets pretty hot.
.
I am planning to go and see one in action later this week.
.
Thanks again for your input on this topic.
Vince</HTML>
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 16, 2005 11:45PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>I'm sorry, I've not introduced myself to this Forum, I looked for a place to do that or even make a post I could not find any. I'm Samuel owner of Ecodetail Services based in Sacramento, I signed up today. Not to deviate from the subject, I've bought 500.00 dollars steam cleaner to detail interior, I thought it was going to make my job quicker..However this has been. You can spend hours on end so to speak trying to use steamer to clean carpet...or you can extract quickly in minutes with high quality extractor. Infact, Daimer on their site mentioned that steamer is not for pro carpet cleaning. Beside, steamer gives so little water because of high condensation and evaporation that it will take you awfully long to clean the interior. In order to improve steamer effectiveness you need to point the gun close to the surface being cleaned, then you are faced with possibilty of soft plastic and leather damage. Too risky. On the exterior I've not seen any OEM company recommend steamer on automotive paint. You have to calculate damage risk against percieved or real effeciency. If you must buy one I've one that I bought from Allergy buyers club for 520.00, I've kept it storage for about a year, I'll most gladly sell it to you.
Samuel E</HTML>
Samuel E</HTML>
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 17, 2005 12:31AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 64 |
<HTML>Welcome Samuel!
First the supply side of our organization is less than 1% of our total sales within our business so I have little to no financial rewards by making my statements. I specialize in detail services; auto, aircraft, RV and boats! We turn out work with a steamer that you could never do with "just" an extractor. Bud is 100% correct in his statement, you need both to turn out high-end work. As for an extractor removing stains faster than a steamer...Samuel if you had purchased a high quality light commercial grade steamer (light meaning small) you would not be making that statement.
I do work on jets in the Bay area several times a year...come out and spend one hour with me...bring your extractor and lets play! When used "correctly", the steamer is better, faster and takes less chemicals to remove nearly any stain. The only time we see the extractor outshine the steamer is on heavy, wet spills or dried spills that required one to remove the gallon of milk before steaming or the mud left behind from the recent floods in California. Steamers are not made for large areas of carpet as "professional" carpet cleaners see within houses and commercial buildings, they are used on small areas of carpets as found in auto, RV's, boats and aircraft.
Over 2,500 auto details, over 1000 business jet details including Air Force One and several hundred RV's and boats all detailed in 2004 using steam! Again, the more of you that stay clear of steamers, the more business those of us that know the value of steamers get! The end results by a trained technician speak loud and clear with our clients. Next time I am in Northern Cal, I send you an email Samuel and maybe we can meet up and share detail profession stories...always fun to meet another professional!</HTML>
Renny Doyle
Attention To Details
Aircraft & Auto Detailing
www.detailingsuccess.com
Proud Detailers of Air Force One!
PDTA Member
First the supply side of our organization is less than 1% of our total sales within our business so I have little to no financial rewards by making my statements. I specialize in detail services; auto, aircraft, RV and boats! We turn out work with a steamer that you could never do with "just" an extractor. Bud is 100% correct in his statement, you need both to turn out high-end work. As for an extractor removing stains faster than a steamer...Samuel if you had purchased a high quality light commercial grade steamer (light meaning small) you would not be making that statement.
I do work on jets in the Bay area several times a year...come out and spend one hour with me...bring your extractor and lets play! When used "correctly", the steamer is better, faster and takes less chemicals to remove nearly any stain. The only time we see the extractor outshine the steamer is on heavy, wet spills or dried spills that required one to remove the gallon of milk before steaming or the mud left behind from the recent floods in California. Steamers are not made for large areas of carpet as "professional" carpet cleaners see within houses and commercial buildings, they are used on small areas of carpets as found in auto, RV's, boats and aircraft.
Over 2,500 auto details, over 1000 business jet details including Air Force One and several hundred RV's and boats all detailed in 2004 using steam! Again, the more of you that stay clear of steamers, the more business those of us that know the value of steamers get! The end results by a trained technician speak loud and clear with our clients. Next time I am in Northern Cal, I send you an email Samuel and maybe we can meet up and share detail profession stories...always fun to meet another professional!</HTML>
Renny Doyle
Attention To Details
Aircraft & Auto Detailing
www.detailingsuccess.com
Proud Detailers of Air Force One!
PDTA Member
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 17, 2005 08:56AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>Renny, i certainly appreciate your point , would you please tell what type of steamer you use in you business. How do you handle possibilty of damage to the carpet due to very high temp over and above OEM recommended. How about soft plastic and vinyl that may be sensitive to very high temp. I'm not an expert on this subject, i have my fear...however i'm not close minded. If you would, please tell how you use steamer to clean interior surface, carpet and leather. Do you also use steamer to wash the car on the exterior. Please explain to me right technique to accomplish interior cleaning faster and better with a steamer. Lest i forget how do you work around elecrtonics and switches . thank you</HTML>
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 17, 2005 04:45PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 64 |
<HTML>Samuel,
As you can guess, the process is involved and a little wordy for a forum. We are building a CD/DVD as we speak and once completed and edited I will post the availablity of the information on several forums. It covers all topics, carpet cleaning, spot cleaning, soft surfaces, hard surfaces and headliners. Also, in our test, the steam temp is no higher than the water temp witin the extractor. Remember, once the steam is out, it cool rapidly and looses its base temp within seconds. At the tip, the temp of the steamer mirrors the temp of high quality extractors so your concerns with temp on carpets is mute as its no different than with the extractors we use. Here is a link to the steamer we use. Again, once we are complete with the steamer info, I will make a post letting you know.
[www.websitetoolbox.com]
Thanks,</HTML>
Renny Doyle
Attention To Details
Aircraft & Auto Detailing
www.detailingsuccess.com
Proud Detailers of Air Force One!
PDTA Member
As you can guess, the process is involved and a little wordy for a forum. We are building a CD/DVD as we speak and once completed and edited I will post the availablity of the information on several forums. It covers all topics, carpet cleaning, spot cleaning, soft surfaces, hard surfaces and headliners. Also, in our test, the steam temp is no higher than the water temp witin the extractor. Remember, once the steam is out, it cool rapidly and looses its base temp within seconds. At the tip, the temp of the steamer mirrors the temp of high quality extractors so your concerns with temp on carpets is mute as its no different than with the extractors we use. Here is a link to the steamer we use. Again, once we are complete with the steamer info, I will make a post letting you know.
[www.websitetoolbox.com]
Thanks,</HTML>
Renny Doyle
Attention To Details
Aircraft & Auto Detailing
www.detailingsuccess.com
Proud Detailers of Air Force One!
PDTA Member
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 17, 2005 07:20PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 6 |
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior February 19, 2005 02:05AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 7 |
<HTML>if using steamer on the exterior of a car, (I am located in the south) we mainly deal with car washing for car lots. we do not use hot water on our cars, due to the fact that right now, the cars are cold enough that high heat will probably break the windows, which I really don't feel like having to replace.</HTML>
h melton
h melton
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Re: Is it safe to use Steam or Vapor on Exterior May 28, 2006 01:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 866 |
<HTML>"We are building a CD/DVD as we speak and once completed and edited I will post the availablity of the information on several forums."
Renny what the latest with the steamer cd/dvd??</HTML>
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Plays in the rain --- www.SuperiorShineDetailing.com
Renny what the latest with the steamer cd/dvd??</HTML>
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Plays in the rain --- www.SuperiorShineDetailing.com
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