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ZYLON Paint Protection
Posted by Bud Abraham
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ZYLON Paint Protection March 28, 2005 12:27AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 01, 2005 05:12AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 118 |
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 01, 2005 06:01AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Why do I ask? Because I only had sketchy information on the product. I am learning now that it is being marketed as a "Dealer Protection Product"
The name is a take off of Zymol if you did not already notice.
I suspect it is nothing more than a glorified paint sealant.
I would like to get a sample of it for testing. Can you see to it alittle gets put in a small bottle and sent to me?
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
The name is a take off of Zymol if you did not already notice.
I suspect it is nothing more than a glorified paint sealant.
I would like to get a sample of it for testing. Can you see to it alittle gets put in a small bottle and sent to me?
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 01, 2005 01:42PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 01, 2005 02:33PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 201 |
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 01, 2005 02:55PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>True Zylon is a polymer product, used to make body armor, it is produced in a "thread", to make fabric.
Developed in Japan, Dow Chemical now owns the rights to the name and produces the fiber.
This Zylon must be polymer sealant, and they somehow got the rights to use the name for their paint sealant, so they could market it as "armor" for a vehicle's paint.
That's about all I know.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
Developed in Japan, Dow Chemical now owns the rights to the name and produces the fiber.
This Zylon must be polymer sealant, and they somehow got the rights to use the name for their paint sealant, so they could market it as "armor" for a vehicle's paint.
That's about all I know.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 01, 2005 05:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML><<Not clear what you mean by your question? Please clarify if you would>>
<I suspect it is nothing more than a glorified paint sealant>.
You used the term glorified paint sealant and I am not sure if you mean all paint sealants are glorified or this particular sealant is glorified.</HTML>
<I suspect it is nothing more than a glorified paint sealant>.
You used the term glorified paint sealant and I am not sure if you mean all paint sealants are glorified or this particular sealant is glorified.</HTML>
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 01, 2005 05:51PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Thank you for the clarification.
Paint sealants, like waxes, are what they are. Some are better than others based on what the formulator was trying to achieve with the formulation:
a. High shine
b. Durability, that is resistence to soaps & shampoos
c. Resistence to corrosion like acid rain or salt water/air
d. Price
You can't get one product to be top in all catagories, but you can generally formulate a good product. Of course, good is relative to what the user wants. If you want a shine product, then one that is more resistent to corrosive elements would not be good for you because it would not have as much shine.
That said, what I meant specifically by "glorified paint sealant" were those the marketing companies claim are a "miracle" formulation and last forever.
Usually, detail chemical companies have learned that detailers are smart enough to not buy into that "stuff" and do not make those claims when selling sealants to detailers.
They do, however, make those claims to the consumer or unsuspecting car enthusiast who wants to believe a product will last forever.
Does that clarify what I mean for you?
Do you use a "great paint sealant?" Share it with us.
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Paint sealants, like waxes, are what they are. Some are better than others based on what the formulator was trying to achieve with the formulation:
a. High shine
b. Durability, that is resistence to soaps & shampoos
c. Resistence to corrosion like acid rain or salt water/air
d. Price
You can't get one product to be top in all catagories, but you can generally formulate a good product. Of course, good is relative to what the user wants. If you want a shine product, then one that is more resistent to corrosive elements would not be good for you because it would not have as much shine.
That said, what I meant specifically by "glorified paint sealant" were those the marketing companies claim are a "miracle" formulation and last forever.
Usually, detail chemical companies have learned that detailers are smart enough to not buy into that "stuff" and do not make those claims when selling sealants to detailers.
They do, however, make those claims to the consumer or unsuspecting car enthusiast who wants to believe a product will last forever.
Does that clarify what I mean for you?
Do you use a "great paint sealant?" Share it with us.
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 01, 2005 08:16PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>Thanks for the clarification.
I have been an advocate of sealants and have been using them for the past 20 years. Fortunately we still have our first client 20 years ago and have retained most of our clients and have the opportunity see vehicles over a long period of time and know that they absolutely work.
In addition to Detail plus we use a variety of sealants
our favourite has recently been reformulated under new brand and we are not as enthused about it at the present. Ultragloss now Durall
Zaino
Klasse
PPS</HTML>
I have been an advocate of sealants and have been using them for the past 20 years. Fortunately we still have our first client 20 years ago and have retained most of our clients and have the opportunity see vehicles over a long period of time and know that they absolutely work.
In addition to Detail plus we use a variety of sealants
our favourite has recently been reformulated under new brand and we are not as enthused about it at the present. Ultragloss now Durall
Zaino
Klasse
PPS</HTML>
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 01, 2005 10:05PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Like "5 Star Shine." Supposed to last forever due to the negative charge it produces, making dirt and contaminants unable to bond, lol. $49.00 for 4oz.
Or better yet, Zymol's Italia Red (polish for red Ferraris) $795.00 for 8.oz
I mean c'mon, people actually buy this stuff? All boutique produts!</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
Or better yet, Zymol's Italia Red (polish for red Ferraris) $795.00 for 8.oz
I mean c'mon, people actually buy this stuff? All boutique produts!</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 01, 2005 10:51PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>Brian.
Dont poo poo so easily boutique products (while they obviosuly will not last forever. that kind of consumer is sold on the merits because it suggests exclusivity...different.. that is the same consumer who purchases $400.00 a bottle wine, versace clothes, 4000.00 suits, flys first class, dines at the most expensive restaurants and stays at 5 star hotels.
This type of consumer is not concerned about cheap or inexpensive, he is more comfortable spending money and bragging to his friends about his s700.00 a bottle wax. He moves around in a different social circle.
Your only concern is to sell him on the merits of your exclusive high cost services that use 700.00 a bottle waxes and 49.00 for 2oz of sealant. Please try not to have any moral dilmena over the issue he is going to spend the money somewhere else on something expensive why not with you..</HTML>
Dont poo poo so easily boutique products (while they obviosuly will not last forever. that kind of consumer is sold on the merits because it suggests exclusivity...different.. that is the same consumer who purchases $400.00 a bottle wine, versace clothes, 4000.00 suits, flys first class, dines at the most expensive restaurants and stays at 5 star hotels.
This type of consumer is not concerned about cheap or inexpensive, he is more comfortable spending money and bragging to his friends about his s700.00 a bottle wax. He moves around in a different social circle.
Your only concern is to sell him on the merits of your exclusive high cost services that use 700.00 a bottle waxes and 49.00 for 2oz of sealant. Please try not to have any moral dilmena over the issue he is going to spend the money somewhere else on something expensive why not with you..</HTML>
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 01, 2005 11:17PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>Great points Gina. I wasn't necessarily saying anything negative, just curious if people actually would spend that kind of money for such a small amount of product.
I just don't like false claims and people believe them -- especially detailers.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
I just don't like false claims and people believe them -- especially detailers.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 12:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>I did not take your post as a negative one...Unfortunately there are detailers as well as consumers who want to believe outrageous claims, but you know people are ultimately responsible to verify the veracity of these claims..
I think the point I was trying to make is that too many detailers get caught up in feeling somekind of guilt in charging consumers for their services..
Detailers will say they are charging too much...
or I cannot justify charging that much</HTML>
I think the point I was trying to make is that too many detailers get caught up in feeling somekind of guilt in charging consumers for their services..
Detailers will say they are charging too much...
or I cannot justify charging that much</HTML>
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 12:33AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Gina:
Not to always disagree with you, but we are talking about something totally different.
A $400 dollar bottle of French wine or a $4,000 Versace suit; or first class, etc is worth what people pay for them.
However, what is being said here is that companies that sell "boutique products" are making false claims about the value of their products, in most cases.
These products are no better than a $20 per gallon sealant in terms of shine, durabilty and corrosion resistence. You have read the Comparative Study of Paint Sealants and Waxes have you not? It clearly reveals how some of these boutique products did, not any better and in many cases far worse than standard profesional detaililng sealants.
Nothing wrong with selling sizzle, but we all know that all the sizzle in the world will not overcome the taste of a tough steak.
You have also got to sell the "steak with the sizzle."
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Not to always disagree with you, but we are talking about something totally different.
A $400 dollar bottle of French wine or a $4,000 Versace suit; or first class, etc is worth what people pay for them.
However, what is being said here is that companies that sell "boutique products" are making false claims about the value of their products, in most cases.
These products are no better than a $20 per gallon sealant in terms of shine, durabilty and corrosion resistence. You have read the Comparative Study of Paint Sealants and Waxes have you not? It clearly reveals how some of these boutique products did, not any better and in many cases far worse than standard profesional detaililng sealants.
Nothing wrong with selling sizzle, but we all know that all the sizzle in the world will not overcome the taste of a tough steak.
You have also got to sell the "steak with the sizzle."
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 01:35AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Gina:
Agree with you completely, but I do not think most professional detailers on this forum anyway, are afraid to charge for their services what they are worth.
Just because a person might charge $500 for a detail does not mean it is worth that much.
Key with detail service pricing is to know the following:
1. What you want as a salary & benefits out of the business
2. What your operational costs are after your salary and benefits
3. Establish your minimum hourly rate
4. What will the market you are targeting pay. It might be more than
your hourly rate, so charge more, but never less.
Detailers who do not know what their operational costs are do not charge what they should be charging.
As I was taught you must have KNOWLEDGE, from knowledge comes CONFIDENCE and from confidence comes ENTHUSIASM.
In this case, if you KNOW what it costs you to operate our busines, if you know what your customers will pay you then have the CONFIDENCE to charge what you know have you to make and what the customer will pay, and like you, are ENTHUSIASTIC convincing the customer they are getting the best deal in town, and should probably be paying double, right?
We are on the same page.
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Agree with you completely, but I do not think most professional detailers on this forum anyway, are afraid to charge for their services what they are worth.
Just because a person might charge $500 for a detail does not mean it is worth that much.
Key with detail service pricing is to know the following:
1. What you want as a salary & benefits out of the business
2. What your operational costs are after your salary and benefits
3. Establish your minimum hourly rate
4. What will the market you are targeting pay. It might be more than
your hourly rate, so charge more, but never less.
Detailers who do not know what their operational costs are do not charge what they should be charging.
As I was taught you must have KNOWLEDGE, from knowledge comes CONFIDENCE and from confidence comes ENTHUSIASM.
In this case, if you KNOW what it costs you to operate our busines, if you know what your customers will pay you then have the CONFIDENCE to charge what you know have you to make and what the customer will pay, and like you, are ENTHUSIASTIC convincing the customer they are getting the best deal in town, and should probably be paying double, right?
We are on the same page.
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 02:54AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
<HTML>Bud,
Cool it!
I can see that the post from Gina upset you, but let the "finger" rest a minute, we will read it, at least once.
Gina makes a very real point!
If that is what people want, the "feel the need", then they are going to spend the money to buy it!
It is all about "perception", not about "price", not about what "anyone else may think".
A Tommy Hillfinger shirt, that sells for $100 is most likely the same fabic and sewn together, at the same factory in some third world country, as the one with a lesser known brand name, and sells for $30 retail.
There are segments of the populations that find "brand" and all that, their reason to buy.
I know the example I presented, did time in the clothing business.
Was Western Regional Sales Manager for Christan Dior, also was with Yardley of London in its time in the sun in the late 60's.
Marketing is just that, just as you and I market products.
It is not a personal thing, as long as when you are "telling your story", you are honest as possible.
And, know what, yeah, you do, in the end, the truth will win out, in regards to the choices made by most consumers, buyers.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
Cool it!
I can see that the post from Gina upset you, but let the "finger" rest a minute, we will read it, at least once.
Gina makes a very real point!
If that is what people want, the "feel the need", then they are going to spend the money to buy it!
It is all about "perception", not about "price", not about what "anyone else may think".
A Tommy Hillfinger shirt, that sells for $100 is most likely the same fabic and sewn together, at the same factory in some third world country, as the one with a lesser known brand name, and sells for $30 retail.
There are segments of the populations that find "brand" and all that, their reason to buy.
I know the example I presented, did time in the clothing business.
Was Western Regional Sales Manager for Christan Dior, also was with Yardley of London in its time in the sun in the late 60's.
Marketing is just that, just as you and I market products.
It is not a personal thing, as long as when you are "telling your story", you are honest as possible.
And, know what, yeah, you do, in the end, the truth will win out, in regards to the choices made by most consumers, buyers.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 03:31AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>Bud
The statement was made with the obvious premise that one should know all the (4) points you have listed and then create a pricing structure based on the personal value of ones technical expertise.
The discussion was a follow up to the use of expensive boutique products which ranged from $50 for 2 oz to $750 for wax. I thought most would understand the use of these products would mean you would have to increase your detailing charges to off-set the cost and that this was a diffrent service level</HTML>
The statement was made with the obvious premise that one should know all the (4) points you have listed and then create a pricing structure based on the personal value of ones technical expertise.
The discussion was a follow up to the use of expensive boutique products which ranged from $50 for 2 oz to $750 for wax. I thought most would understand the use of these products would mean you would have to increase your detailing charges to off-set the cost and that this was a diffrent service level</HTML>
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 03:33AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Ron:
Gina's post did not upset me at all. I was concerned moreso that I upset Gina. She and I have known each other for a few years and exchanged ideas via phone and nothing she says would upset me. Anything she says is her opinion and she is entitled to it, as you and I are entitled to opinions.
I too was in the textile business for a number of years and I can tell you there is a huge difference in the quality of fabric used in a Tommy H shirt and something you buy a Macy's basement or Nordstrom Rack.
The might look the same but the quality of thread, the size of the thread and the warp and fill of the fabric when it is woven it totally different.
The wools used in Versace suits is much different than even a $400 suit.
When we speak of paint sealants they are basically not much different.
The concern here is that these boutique companies basically lie to get the consumers money, making clamins and inferences that the customer wants to hear so they tell them what they want to hear even though it is not true.
I have always believed in the detail business that you do not have to "cheat or lie" to a customer to get their business.
That customer might be a motorist or it could be the customers to whom we sell chemicals. I normally tell a DETAIL PLUS customer that detail chemicals are very much a commodity. That their success is not dependent on the chemicals they use but how they run their business.
In any case, there is no problem with Gina and I. Is there Gina?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Gina's post did not upset me at all. I was concerned moreso that I upset Gina. She and I have known each other for a few years and exchanged ideas via phone and nothing she says would upset me. Anything she says is her opinion and she is entitled to it, as you and I are entitled to opinions.
I too was in the textile business for a number of years and I can tell you there is a huge difference in the quality of fabric used in a Tommy H shirt and something you buy a Macy's basement or Nordstrom Rack.
The might look the same but the quality of thread, the size of the thread and the warp and fill of the fabric when it is woven it totally different.
The wools used in Versace suits is much different than even a $400 suit.
When we speak of paint sealants they are basically not much different.
The concern here is that these boutique companies basically lie to get the consumers money, making clamins and inferences that the customer wants to hear so they tell them what they want to hear even though it is not true.
I have always believed in the detail business that you do not have to "cheat or lie" to a customer to get their business.
That customer might be a motorist or it could be the customers to whom we sell chemicals. I normally tell a DETAIL PLUS customer that detail chemicals are very much a commodity. That their success is not dependent on the chemicals they use but how they run their business.
In any case, there is no problem with Gina and I. Is there Gina?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 03:40AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Gina:
Unfortunately far to few detailers do know what their costs of operation are nor what hourly to charge. It is getting better due to the forums and other sources of information.
If a detailer chooses to pay those crazy prices then I agree you need to charge for them.
But the question is, "Why would a detailer who should know better pay those high prices for products are not worth it?"
No reflection on your decisions but I would never pay that kind of money for a product and I would tell my customers that it is all hype. Did it many times with my customers and they appreciated my honesty.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
Unfortunately far to few detailers do know what their costs of operation are nor what hourly to charge. It is getting better due to the forums and other sources of information.
If a detailer chooses to pay those crazy prices then I agree you need to charge for them.
But the question is, "Why would a detailer who should know better pay those high prices for products are not worth it?"
No reflection on your decisions but I would never pay that kind of money for a product and I would tell my customers that it is all hype. Did it many times with my customers and they appreciated my honesty.
Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 03:48AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>>>Not to always disagree with you, but we are talking about something totally different.>>
Bud:
Discussions are different points of veiw which need not lead to disagreements.
I think there is no difference between a $400.00 wine and $750 wax except to the connsieur of wine. Many people purchase what is popular, because it is fashionable in some circles, because it makes their ego's feel better and sometimes just because they can.
As long as one does not make outrageous claims about the product being sold and a consumer who is fully informed wants to purchase it why should one not provide access to the product.
Every day women purchase cosmecuticals, and cosmetics that cost hundreds of dollars in department stores..we know that we can purchase the same product cheaper in a drug store and yet the allure of a brand name, the packaging, the snob appeal draws us like sheep to purchase.
no different with the sealant.
That is why there is Walmart and Nordstroms different stores for different folks.</HTML>
Bud:
Discussions are different points of veiw which need not lead to disagreements.
I think there is no difference between a $400.00 wine and $750 wax except to the connsieur of wine. Many people purchase what is popular, because it is fashionable in some circles, because it makes their ego's feel better and sometimes just because they can.
As long as one does not make outrageous claims about the product being sold and a consumer who is fully informed wants to purchase it why should one not provide access to the product.
Every day women purchase cosmecuticals, and cosmetics that cost hundreds of dollars in department stores..we know that we can purchase the same product cheaper in a drug store and yet the allure of a brand name, the packaging, the snob appeal draws us like sheep to purchase.
no different with the sealant.
That is why there is Walmart and Nordstroms different stores for different folks.</HTML>
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 04:02AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
<HTML>Bud, "sizing" is "sizing", but thread quality, number of threads per inch, etc, do make a difference, so we know that much.
You miss the point that Gina is presenting.
"There are people", who will spend more money for a "brand" name, or with a company that has a track record of years, and years of servicing the customers in their market. These "customers" are loyal to the detailer for years, that does what it says, and is around the next year and for years to come, not like most we see in this business.
They don't know the brand names of Detail Plus or ValuGard from jack crap.
Why, we don't advertise to them, so they are not comfortable with our products, no matter what we may know, say, present, etc.
Why blow smoke and argue about things like this, just because someone in the business is a bit more wise about how to market to their demographic's?
People buy our products everyday, the same forumualtions, but not under our ValuGard name, rather they are purchasing a brand that they "trust", and could care less who made it.
People buy products that have the Motorcraft, MoPar, AC/Delco, Renault, Nissan, etc, etc car care products everyday, that will not purchase them off an auto parts store shelf, if they could even find it, ValuGard.
Why? "Trust", and "marketing", built by the manufacturers and their engineering and labs testing, and that is what Gina is saying, among other, very important things.
She has some very valid and important observations, and they come from her and her family, operating a very successful business for many, many, many years.
That is the "key", their business is not one that just started up, just bought some "hyped" products, but have a successful track record, for "years" within, their "targeted" market!
No way are they going to go after the "dealer $80 slap and grease" customers, they don't try to sell to the "I can only pay, and etc," market.
They have spent years, defining their "market" and it works.
The one thing that Gina may not say, is this, they don't really understand the other markets, the other parts of the country, all the differences.
However, why should they?
They know the market in which they operate, it's not what others may, but they know their market.
They have proven that they do, or they would have been out of business years ago.
It's a big country, it's an even bigger world, and with the billions of souls on this earth, room for everyone.
Perhaps, that is what some others in this business should consider, to take some time to think about, as you often point out, "what do I really want to accomplish, to do, to make a real business".
That is your strong point, Bud, don't lose it trying to make everyone a "new kid on the block", some know what it takes.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
You miss the point that Gina is presenting.
"There are people", who will spend more money for a "brand" name, or with a company that has a track record of years, and years of servicing the customers in their market. These "customers" are loyal to the detailer for years, that does what it says, and is around the next year and for years to come, not like most we see in this business.
They don't know the brand names of Detail Plus or ValuGard from jack crap.
Why, we don't advertise to them, so they are not comfortable with our products, no matter what we may know, say, present, etc.
Why blow smoke and argue about things like this, just because someone in the business is a bit more wise about how to market to their demographic's?
People buy our products everyday, the same forumualtions, but not under our ValuGard name, rather they are purchasing a brand that they "trust", and could care less who made it.
People buy products that have the Motorcraft, MoPar, AC/Delco, Renault, Nissan, etc, etc car care products everyday, that will not purchase them off an auto parts store shelf, if they could even find it, ValuGard.
Why? "Trust", and "marketing", built by the manufacturers and their engineering and labs testing, and that is what Gina is saying, among other, very important things.
She has some very valid and important observations, and they come from her and her family, operating a very successful business for many, many, many years.
That is the "key", their business is not one that just started up, just bought some "hyped" products, but have a successful track record, for "years" within, their "targeted" market!
No way are they going to go after the "dealer $80 slap and grease" customers, they don't try to sell to the "I can only pay, and etc," market.
They have spent years, defining their "market" and it works.
The one thing that Gina may not say, is this, they don't really understand the other markets, the other parts of the country, all the differences.
However, why should they?
They know the market in which they operate, it's not what others may, but they know their market.
They have proven that they do, or they would have been out of business years ago.
It's a big country, it's an even bigger world, and with the billions of souls on this earth, room for everyone.
Perhaps, that is what some others in this business should consider, to take some time to think about, as you often point out, "what do I really want to accomplish, to do, to make a real business".
That is your strong point, Bud, don't lose it trying to make everyone a "new kid on the block", some know what it takes.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 04:13AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML><In any case, there is no problem with Gina and I. Is there Gina?>
Bud:
You know how much I respect your contribution and involvement in the detailing industry and always welcome your sage wisdom.
While I am not as technically proficient as both you and Ron I remain passionate about practicing my craft well and keeping abreast of this industry. My style of marketing my services may not be in concert with the norm...but I like to think outside the box (be more innovative) it works for me and... many clients and prospective clients seem to like my approach.</HTML>
Bud:
You know how much I respect your contribution and involvement in the detailing industry and always welcome your sage wisdom.
While I am not as technically proficient as both you and Ron I remain passionate about practicing my craft well and keeping abreast of this industry. My style of marketing my services may not be in concert with the norm...but I like to think outside the box (be more innovative) it works for me and... many clients and prospective clients seem to like my approach.</HTML>
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 04:33AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>This thread is making me think about what we discussed in my previous class about brand loyalty and accepting no substitutes.
Whoever said disagreeing is negative? If one looks at it from every angle, you will get a better range of ideas, views of doing things, etc. Conflict is not bad as long as there is no flamming. Brings options and opinions to the table. I learned some new views from everyone just by reading this thread. Nothing negative at all.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
Whoever said disagreeing is negative? If one looks at it from every angle, you will get a better range of ideas, views of doing things, etc. Conflict is not bad as long as there is no flamming. Brings options and opinions to the table. I learned some new views from everyone just by reading this thread. Nothing negative at all.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 06:17AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 06:20AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Gina:
Unfortunately we have come to be on opposite ends of something we actually agree on.
Thank you for your kind words, and I too have the upmost respect for what you and your family have done in the business and the professional way you approach the business of detailing. This is what the industry needs, more people running a detail business as you and your family do.
Please know that you and I are not in disagreement on most things.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Unfortunately we have come to be on opposite ends of something we actually agree on.
Thank you for your kind words, and I too have the upmost respect for what you and your family have done in the business and the professional way you approach the business of detailing. This is what the industry needs, more people running a detail business as you and your family do.
Please know that you and I are not in disagreement on most things.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 06:22AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Brian:
Very astute and sage posting about what has occurred from this post. Some very good thoughts from everyone on marketing and positioning in the market.
As you say, nothing negative about this posting at all, and more positives to be gained from it.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Very astute and sage posting about what has occurred from this post. Some very good thoughts from everyone on marketing and positioning in the market.
As you say, nothing negative about this posting at all, and more positives to be gained from it.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 06:22AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Brian:
Very astute and sage posting about what has occurred from this post. Some very good thoughts from everyone on marketing and positioning in the market.
As you say, nothing negative about this posting at all, and more positives to be gained from it.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Very astute and sage posting about what has occurred from this post. Some very good thoughts from everyone on marketing and positioning in the market.
As you say, nothing negative about this posting at all, and more positives to be gained from it.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 02:17PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>Bud:
I think you have missed a very important point...
The advent of boutique products into the market place $700.00 wax and $59.00 2 oz sealants have garnered a huge demand and obsessive interest in car care and protection from a large part of the population that have expendable dollars
The care care and detailing industry have been unable to lure these same customer whether through lack of education of advertising dollars...the point is these same consumers have been introduced to detailing and the concept of protectants and they are reaching out in to the detailing community to provide services.
They are brand loyal or feel that these products have value and are willing to pay for them and even demand them. As detailers we have been given a windfall...yes take the opportunity to educate but also do not loose the customer because you are unwilling to use a boutique product.
There is however a caveat on that...you must test out and try the product to make sure they are not sizzle...</HTML>
I think you have missed a very important point...
The advent of boutique products into the market place $700.00 wax and $59.00 2 oz sealants have garnered a huge demand and obsessive interest in car care and protection from a large part of the population that have expendable dollars
The care care and detailing industry have been unable to lure these same customer whether through lack of education of advertising dollars...the point is these same consumers have been introduced to detailing and the concept of protectants and they are reaching out in to the detailing community to provide services.
They are brand loyal or feel that these products have value and are willing to pay for them and even demand them. As detailers we have been given a windfall...yes take the opportunity to educate but also do not loose the customer because you are unwilling to use a boutique product.
There is however a caveat on that...you must test out and try the product to make sure they are not sizzle...</HTML>
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 02:48PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Gina:
Thank you for your reply.
I do not miss the point at all, I just do not agree with it.
For me, it is a point of personal integrity.
I know that boutique products are not worth prices under any conditions, there is only so much technology that you can put into a wax or paint sealant.
So, even though my customers might want to buy these products and feel they are superior I am not going to buy them at that price and cater to their misconception. To me this would offend my personal integrity, not to infer you do not have integrity, but for me this would be dishonest because I know the products are not worth that amount of money
I have always taken the position of being the expert with my customers and if they ask me about a product I will tell them.
Many times customers asked me, "Does your paint sealant have Teflon it it?"
My reply would always be, "Do you want me to tell you it does?"
They look at me with a puzzled look and then I laugh and tell them the real story about Teflon, and they always thank me.
So, I see clearly what you are saying but I am of the position that integrity and education is far more important than "selling my soul" for a few more dollars.
And I certainly would not support the "boutique companies" who sell these ridiculously high priced products.
Sorry, we do not agree but this is the benefit of living in this great country of the US of A, freedom of speech and opinion.
Best Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Thank you for your reply.
I do not miss the point at all, I just do not agree with it.
For me, it is a point of personal integrity.
I know that boutique products are not worth prices under any conditions, there is only so much technology that you can put into a wax or paint sealant.
So, even though my customers might want to buy these products and feel they are superior I am not going to buy them at that price and cater to their misconception. To me this would offend my personal integrity, not to infer you do not have integrity, but for me this would be dishonest because I know the products are not worth that amount of money
I have always taken the position of being the expert with my customers and if they ask me about a product I will tell them.
Many times customers asked me, "Does your paint sealant have Teflon it it?"
My reply would always be, "Do you want me to tell you it does?"
They look at me with a puzzled look and then I laugh and tell them the real story about Teflon, and they always thank me.
So, I see clearly what you are saying but I am of the position that integrity and education is far more important than "selling my soul" for a few more dollars.
And I certainly would not support the "boutique companies" who sell these ridiculously high priced products.
Sorry, we do not agree but this is the benefit of living in this great country of the US of A, freedom of speech and opinion.
Best Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: ZYLON Paint Protection April 02, 2005 03:43PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>You have stated <<For me, it is a point of personal integrity.
Many times customers asked me, "Does your paint sealant have Teflon it it?"
My reply would always be, "Do you want me to tell you it does?"
They look at me with a puzzled look and then I laugh and tell them the real story about Teflon, and they always thank me.>>
Bud:
Not to question your personal integrity, but I am confused ...do you not sell a "Teflon-Fortified" paint sealnt as part of your product line? (see link and description as listed below)
Why would you want to use any association with the name teflon since it you know it has no value or is this just marketing hype for those who want teflon.
[detailplus.com]
A "Teflon-Fortified" paint sealant that offers many of the same benefits of DIAMOND PLUS, plus the addition of Teflon for those customers who request a Teflon paint sealant. Formulated with the finest ingredients to provide durablity and a high shine for "guaranteed paint sealant" programs. Is also easy to apply and remove.
Price : $27.95/One Gallon $109.80/Four Gallon Case
ALL PRICES SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!!! UPS SHIPPING CHARGES MAY VARY</HTML>
Many times customers asked me, "Does your paint sealant have Teflon it it?"
My reply would always be, "Do you want me to tell you it does?"
They look at me with a puzzled look and then I laugh and tell them the real story about Teflon, and they always thank me.>>
Bud:
Not to question your personal integrity, but I am confused ...do you not sell a "Teflon-Fortified" paint sealnt as part of your product line? (see link and description as listed below)
Why would you want to use any association with the name teflon since it you know it has no value or is this just marketing hype for those who want teflon.
[detailplus.com]
A "Teflon-Fortified" paint sealant that offers many of the same benefits of DIAMOND PLUS, plus the addition of Teflon for those customers who request a Teflon paint sealant. Formulated with the finest ingredients to provide durablity and a high shine for "guaranteed paint sealant" programs. Is also easy to apply and remove.
Price : $27.95/One Gallon $109.80/Four Gallon Case
ALL PRICES SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!!! UPS SHIPPING CHARGES MAY VARY</HTML>
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