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Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies
Posted by samuel
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Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 14, 2005 06:32AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>I've spent awful lot of time reading up on different opinions on the supposed harmful effects of tire plastic protectant and or dressing containing petroleum distillate. There is so much disagreement and confusion about this subject - same as silicon based dressing on tire and plastic. This confusion is further fueled by salesmen who talk down on competion referencing non-existing or at best, inconclusive study on this subject.
I concluded the best way to get right info is to research opinions of independent chemists who work with this product daily and over the years. I finally found one that seems really convincing because he's not pushing any product. You may wish to read his view directly from this website [www.protectall.com].
I tend to agree with his view because of my personal observation of Stoner's aerosol TRIM SHINE and WURTH Rubber Protectant. both of these product contain petroleum distilate with the stoner containing silicon also. If the generalised claim of 303 and other water based silicon and petroleum distilate free manufacturer were true, both Wurth and Stoner dressing should have the effect of drying plastic, rubber and vinyl. I've observed both products over a year without noticing any browning, drying or brittleness either on tire or trim. If anything the surfaces treated with these product remain free of oxidation and yet keep their natural looks. what's going on? someone is not telling the truth...or someone is deliberately misinforming the public and pro-detailers who dont know either. Both stoner and wurth have UV inhibitor added to their products. so what's is the big thing about 303 protectant that justifies its premium price tag? I dont know. For those who praise Lexol vinlylex, suffice to say that this good product contains silicon and very high UV screens. Please if any one thinks differently about this article, please provide a different fact.
samuel</HTML>
I concluded the best way to get right info is to research opinions of independent chemists who work with this product daily and over the years. I finally found one that seems really convincing because he's not pushing any product. You may wish to read his view directly from this website [www.protectall.com].
I tend to agree with his view because of my personal observation of Stoner's aerosol TRIM SHINE and WURTH Rubber Protectant. both of these product contain petroleum distilate with the stoner containing silicon also. If the generalised claim of 303 and other water based silicon and petroleum distilate free manufacturer were true, both Wurth and Stoner dressing should have the effect of drying plastic, rubber and vinyl. I've observed both products over a year without noticing any browning, drying or brittleness either on tire or trim. If anything the surfaces treated with these product remain free of oxidation and yet keep their natural looks. what's going on? someone is not telling the truth...or someone is deliberately misinforming the public and pro-detailers who dont know either. Both stoner and wurth have UV inhibitor added to their products. so what's is the big thing about 303 protectant that justifies its premium price tag? I dont know. For those who praise Lexol vinlylex, suffice to say that this good product contains silicon and very high UV screens. Please if any one thinks differently about this article, please provide a different fact.
samuel</HTML>
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 14, 2005 06:36AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>sorry about the link ..you may please try this new one: [www.protectall.com];
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 14, 2005 01:25PM |
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 14, 2005 01:40PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>Bill, you are correct.
There is the documented, by the vehicle manufacturers, the dimethal silicone oil/fluid damage created to tires, as it is usually formulated in to a petroluem distillate, with a flammable additional solvent, such as hexane in the mix.
The distillates and the hexane break down or disolve the anti-cracking/checking/uv protectant wax that is mixed into all tires.
A polydimethalsiloxane is much different, in chemical construction than a silicone oil/fluid.
Less evaporative, less migritory and may be emulsifed into water, to serve as it's carrier to the tires surface.
Once the water evaporates, the polydimethalsiloxane attachs to the tire, but does not penetrate, nor breakdown the protective components of the sidewall.
In a short way of explaining, the use of petroluem distillates as the carrier, works much as when a bodyshop uses a petroluem distillate based product such a "grease-wax removers' to remove waxes, polymers from a vehicles painted surfaces before sanding.
IE, it removes from the tire, the protective waxes that are placed in the tire by the tire manufacturer, leading to premature sidewall failure, cracking and drying of the rubber.
ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
There is the documented, by the vehicle manufacturers, the dimethal silicone oil/fluid damage created to tires, as it is usually formulated in to a petroluem distillate, with a flammable additional solvent, such as hexane in the mix.
The distillates and the hexane break down or disolve the anti-cracking/checking/uv protectant wax that is mixed into all tires.
A polydimethalsiloxane is much different, in chemical construction than a silicone oil/fluid.
Less evaporative, less migritory and may be emulsifed into water, to serve as it's carrier to the tires surface.
Once the water evaporates, the polydimethalsiloxane attachs to the tire, but does not penetrate, nor breakdown the protective components of the sidewall.
In a short way of explaining, the use of petroluem distillates as the carrier, works much as when a bodyshop uses a petroluem distillate based product such a "grease-wax removers' to remove waxes, polymers from a vehicles painted surfaces before sanding.
IE, it removes from the tire, the protective waxes that are placed in the tire by the tire manufacturer, leading to premature sidewall failure, cracking and drying of the rubber.
ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 14, 2005 09:05PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 210 |
<HTML>Thanks Samuel for posting this link. I don't think that water based dressings are any safer than solvent based dressings, unless of course, the manufacturers of these products don't want to stay in business very long. For a long time, I was convinced, after reading all the negative information about solvent based dressings, that water based was the only way to go. Like you, I've field tested some of these solvent based dressings, particularly Stoners, and found them to be safe and more effective than my water based dressings. I'm not going to say that all solvent based dressings are safe, but I know the ones I use certainly are.</HTML>
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 15, 2005 01:19AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
<HTML>Mark,
First, due to the new VOC regulations in California, and soon New Jersey and something like 14 other states, with the balance to follow in the next few years, the type of dressing you perfer will be come extinct.
Not for the "safety" reasons that DaimlerChrysler, Ford and GM have issued in Technical Service Bulletins, as well as many of the major tire companies, but, the amount of VOC's released into the enviorment.
Second, each enthusist, detailer, have their perception of what is "wonderful" and "great", and often base them on "their observations", which is not the same as testing done by a certified, independant lab, with educated and trained chemists.
Those issues will always be in play when it comes to many types of products, not just this industry.
In the long run, regulations, which are created due to scientific testing will win out.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
First, due to the new VOC regulations in California, and soon New Jersey and something like 14 other states, with the balance to follow in the next few years, the type of dressing you perfer will be come extinct.
Not for the "safety" reasons that DaimlerChrysler, Ford and GM have issued in Technical Service Bulletins, as well as many of the major tire companies, but, the amount of VOC's released into the enviorment.
Second, each enthusist, detailer, have their perception of what is "wonderful" and "great", and often base them on "their observations", which is not the same as testing done by a certified, independant lab, with educated and trained chemists.
Those issues will always be in play when it comes to many types of products, not just this industry.
In the long run, regulations, which are created due to scientific testing will win out.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 15, 2005 01:38AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 210 |
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 15, 2005 02:42AM |
<HTML>Mark,
If you are seeking something close to the size of an aerosol can, the best application I know of is to put a water based dressing in a cooking oil pump type sprayer. You pump the cap and can make a spray similar to an aerosol.
It works well on low profile tires and does conserve product. I haven't tried spraying it directly on vents as I use a foam paint brush to apply product to them but I'm confident it can a decent job there too. Unlike a real aerosol though, you're still going to have to wipe to spread the product on the surface.</HTML>
If you are seeking something close to the size of an aerosol can, the best application I know of is to put a water based dressing in a cooking oil pump type sprayer. You pump the cap and can make a spray similar to an aerosol.
It works well on low profile tires and does conserve product. I haven't tried spraying it directly on vents as I use a foam paint brush to apply product to them but I'm confident it can a decent job there too. Unlike a real aerosol though, you're still going to have to wipe to spread the product on the surface.</HTML>
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 15, 2005 03:28AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 466 |
<HTML>Mark,
(Off topic) I mean no offense here but why on earth do you apply dressing to vents? That just collects more dust and crud in the vents.
Nor would I, if I was going to dress vents, use a solvent based dressing. Of course just my humble opinion.
Carry on,
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
(Off topic) I mean no offense here but why on earth do you apply dressing to vents? That just collects more dust and crud in the vents.
Nor would I, if I was going to dress vents, use a solvent based dressing. Of course just my humble opinion.
Carry on,
Anthony</HTML>
Details, Details, Details....It's all in the details!
www.UltimateReflections.NET
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 15, 2005 06:08AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>Ron, You are absolutely right in your assessment. My observation just as many other detailers is not scientific, hence we all have to wait on scientific study to determine the harmful effects of petroleum distillate on tire or rubber.However, what I cannot fathom is the inability of the so-called scientists to agree on the dangers of these petro-based dressings. Same applies to silicon based dressing. we are not scientists, we are detailing professionals it's not up to us determine the effects of petroleum distilate on tire, rubber or plastic.
Considering enormous potential civil suit that could be brought against tire manufacturer, detail chemical manufacturers and detailers, I think a conclusive study needs to be done and the results agreed to by everyone in this industry. This may sound novel, but it's a serious matter with potential for litigations should anyone gets hurt.
Till there is a general agreement on the effects dressing containing petroleum distilate, i personally will stay with water based dressing on tires, and petro-based dressing on hard to reach trim and plastic.</HTML>
Considering enormous potential civil suit that could be brought against tire manufacturer, detail chemical manufacturers and detailers, I think a conclusive study needs to be done and the results agreed to by everyone in this industry. This may sound novel, but it's a serious matter with potential for litigations should anyone gets hurt.
Till there is a general agreement on the effects dressing containing petroleum distilate, i personally will stay with water based dressing on tires, and petro-based dressing on hard to reach trim and plastic.</HTML>
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 15, 2005 07:13AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 4 |
<HTML>First thing, doesn't wax products contain petroleum distillates also. And is also bad to apply a spray shine such as stoner to the interior of a car. I use water based products now. But one day I was experimenting with stoner on my dash and center console and it looked fabulous. So I was thinking bout starting to use this on all my interior dressings from now on. But after reading this discussion I'm contemplating on whether I should or shouldn't.. Any help....</HTML>
Chris Garcia
Sunset Mobile Wash
El Paso, Tx
(915)256-7456
Chris Garcia
Sunset Mobile Wash
El Paso, Tx
(915)256-7456
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 15, 2005 12:44PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
<HTML>Interior parts are entirely different substrates.
They are not supporting the vehicle as it goes down the road.
I have to agree with Anthony, as to why "dress" vents, unless one is in a big hurry, doesn't have time to properly clean them, which is why "cheater" products are marketed.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
They are not supporting the vehicle as it goes down the road.
I have to agree with Anthony, as to why "dress" vents, unless one is in a big hurry, doesn't have time to properly clean them, which is why "cheater" products are marketed.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it at all!
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 15, 2005 10:57PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 4 |
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 16, 2005 12:43AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 210 |
<HTML>I really don't think I have to explain myself on why I dress vents, but I will because I respect you guys so much. When I do an interior, I clean the entire area using Stoner Xenit (water based) and a microfiber towel, utilizing my boar hair brushes where needed, and then I apply dressing to all hard surfaces including vents. Why do I dress vents? Because it makes the interior looked finished. There are two ways to dress an interior. The first way is to spray a water based dressing to the area being dressed, and follow with compressed air to blow the dressing into all the cracks and crevices that my towel won't reach, followed by a final wipe down . The second way is to first spray an aerosal dressing (solvent based) into all the cracks and crevices, including vents, followed by applying the water based dressing to all the other areas, followed by a wipe down blending the two dressings together. If there is a better way do dress an interior, please advise me. I've only been doing this professionally for two years, and I've basically learned, from trial and error, and from what I've read from websites such as these.</HTML>
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 16, 2005 02:30AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 12 |
<HTML>I've always used a water based dressing and variety ( if necessary) of foam paint brushes to apply. The pump type cooking oil sprayer I mentioned earlier may mimick the aerosol can's action sufficiently for this application although I find just using the foam brushes dampened with dressing to do very well and take minimum time.</HTML>
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 16, 2005 09:48AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 26 |
<HTML>chris,
you are as confused as every detailer who has been reading conflicting arguements between so-called chemists who do not seem to agree on the ill-effects or otherwise of petroleum based dressing. even though it seems somewhat like many do agree that water based silicon dressing is safe, tomorrow many of the chemists who make this product and the claim hereto might say it's no longer safe.
Ron,
I agree with you that we cannot go by our field observation to determine the effects of petro-based dressing, however,it's frustrating that the so-called experts cannot agree on the simple chemistry of tire/rubber and the effects of the products designed to protect it. Meanwhile consumers and detailers alike continue to use these products that may eventually destroy their tires. some maufacturers like Stoner claim it's the quality and type of petroleum distilate you use in formulating your procduct that matters, others claim petroleum distilate in all its forms are bad for tire.
I guess play it safe till we have conclusive evidence.
Samuel</HTML>
you are as confused as every detailer who has been reading conflicting arguements between so-called chemists who do not seem to agree on the ill-effects or otherwise of petroleum based dressing. even though it seems somewhat like many do agree that water based silicon dressing is safe, tomorrow many of the chemists who make this product and the claim hereto might say it's no longer safe.
Ron,
I agree with you that we cannot go by our field observation to determine the effects of petro-based dressing, however,it's frustrating that the so-called experts cannot agree on the simple chemistry of tire/rubber and the effects of the products designed to protect it. Meanwhile consumers and detailers alike continue to use these products that may eventually destroy their tires. some maufacturers like Stoner claim it's the quality and type of petroleum distilate you use in formulating your procduct that matters, others claim petroleum distilate in all its forms are bad for tire.
I guess play it safe till we have conclusive evidence.
Samuel</HTML>
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 16, 2005 01:09PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
<HTML>I believe that the one's who manufacturer the vehicle, their suppliers of parts, and the engineers of both, know better, 99% of the time as to what types of chemicals, etc may be used.
If you are ever around Cincy, stop in and I'll show you some of these sort of lab tests they do to acertain these things.
These are not tests that we do, but their engineers, labs, outside certified labs they contract with, do.
We can not publish these documents on the web, since we don't own them, but, like at the ICA show, are allowed to let other's read them, from their printed forms.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
If you are ever around Cincy, stop in and I'll show you some of these sort of lab tests they do to acertain these things.
These are not tests that we do, but their engineers, labs, outside certified labs they contract with, do.
We can not publish these documents on the web, since we don't own them, but, like at the ICA show, are allowed to let other's read them, from their printed forms.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 27, 2005 11:28PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 141 |
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Re: Petroleum distillate Claims- the facts..and the lies April 28, 2005 12:29PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 641 |
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