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black car in sunlight
Posted by john Shamer
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black car in sunlight April 15, 2005 02:43AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 6 |
<HTML>I bought a black honda civic,and purchased the auto armor "never wax your car again" deal.The salesman recommended it because the car is black.I washed thecar,and after drying applied the paint protection cleaner/renewer that they gave me. The next morning in direct sun the car looks terrible. Looks like swirl marks here and there all over the car.Never noticed it before.Out of the sun,car looks great.Can this be fixed ,and if so,will this ruin the auto armor protection?Or is the armor protection a money maker for the dealer? Thanks</HTML>
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Re: black car in sunlight April 15, 2005 02:57AM |
<HTML>Yes and yes. A professional detailer will be able to remove the swirl marks through the use of a high speed rotary polisher. Auto Armor sounds like nothing more than a paint sealant of unknown quality that the dealer probably charges an obscene amount for.
A quality paint sealant offers good protection for a reasonable amount of time. No product lasst indefinitely.</HTML>
A quality paint sealant offers good protection for a reasonable amount of time. No product lasst indefinitely.</HTML>
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Re: black car in sunlight April 15, 2005 03:10AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>Please describe in detail how you washed the vehicle and applied the cleaner/renewer...including type of soap, cloths if any to wash and dry and apply.
We need to have some background on the vehicle:
When did you purchase this vehicle?
Was this your first wash?
If this was your first wash why were applying the paint protection/cleaner renewer?
Did you hand wash or machine wash?
Did you pre-rinse the vehicle?
Did you wash the vehicle from top down?
Did you wash the vehicle in a circular pattern?
What did you use to wash the vehicle with?
Did you rinse/dip your cloths frequently in soap
What did you dry the vehicle with?
It is possible the swirls can be fixed by a professional detailer - but it would be good to know if you contributed to these swirls so that you can change your wash procedure if this is the problem. In order to correct the swirl problems the sealant will have to be removed...but can be re-applied. A professional detailer should a comparable sealant (I do not know how this will affect your warranty) but do not expect him to use your sealant...I know I would not use a client's product since I do not know what is in the bottle.
Yes sealants are a money maker for the Dealer? and that is to be expected since he is providing you with a service and i suppose a warranty for the product. More important sealants offer great protection if they are applied properly and you are able to maintain the appearance and value of your vehicle for a long time.</HTML>
We need to have some background on the vehicle:
When did you purchase this vehicle?
Was this your first wash?
If this was your first wash why were applying the paint protection/cleaner renewer?
Did you hand wash or machine wash?
Did you pre-rinse the vehicle?
Did you wash the vehicle from top down?
Did you wash the vehicle in a circular pattern?
What did you use to wash the vehicle with?
Did you rinse/dip your cloths frequently in soap
What did you dry the vehicle with?
It is possible the swirls can be fixed by a professional detailer - but it would be good to know if you contributed to these swirls so that you can change your wash procedure if this is the problem. In order to correct the swirl problems the sealant will have to be removed...but can be re-applied. A professional detailer should a comparable sealant (I do not know how this will affect your warranty) but do not expect him to use your sealant...I know I would not use a client's product since I do not know what is in the bottle.
Yes sealants are a money maker for the Dealer? and that is to be expected since he is providing you with a service and i suppose a warranty for the product. More important sealants offer great protection if they are applied properly and you are able to maintain the appearance and value of your vehicle for a long time.</HTML>
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Re: black car in sunlight April 15, 2005 05:55AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>What you need to do is simply take the car back to the dealer and in no uncertain terms tell them that your car is full of swirls marks and you want them taken out professionally.
What has happened is that the detailers might have used a high speed buffer on the car when they did the new car get-ready and put the swirls in the car or they might have "buffed" the paint sealant on the car.
Most dealership detailers do not know what they are doing and use high speed buffers with wool pads on new car finishes.
I bought a new red BMW for my wife a few years back and when I picked it up it was full of swirl marks. Rather than have the same hacks try to fix it I simply took the car and repaired it in our shop.
But you need to put the burden back on the dealer. If they try to give you any grief or excuses at all threaten to take them to small claims court. If they give you any grief then find a high quality detail shop in the area and ask them for a bid to remove the swirls and then take that bid and your filing costs and make a small claims court filing and you will get IMMEDIATE satisfaction.
Be sure, if the dealer says that they will fix it that you accompany the salesman or whomever to the detail shop and find out what they are going to do to correct the swirls.
They should use a high speed rotary buffer at about 1300RPM and a foam polishing pad, with a swirl remover product.
If this does not work then they put scratches in the car in the form of swirls and it may require a light compound with a foam cutting pad to remove the scratches and then the polishing pad and swirl remover polish and finally another coat of Auto Armor.
Auto Armor is a company in the mid-west that caters to dealers with their protection package chemicals. They are a good company and their products are as good as any on the market. Not worth the prices the dealer charges, but they seem to be able to sell them to unsuspecting buyers.
Let us know what happens.
Regards
Bud Abraham
buda@detailplus.com</HTML>
buda
What has happened is that the detailers might have used a high speed buffer on the car when they did the new car get-ready and put the swirls in the car or they might have "buffed" the paint sealant on the car.
Most dealership detailers do not know what they are doing and use high speed buffers with wool pads on new car finishes.
I bought a new red BMW for my wife a few years back and when I picked it up it was full of swirl marks. Rather than have the same hacks try to fix it I simply took the car and repaired it in our shop.
But you need to put the burden back on the dealer. If they try to give you any grief or excuses at all threaten to take them to small claims court. If they give you any grief then find a high quality detail shop in the area and ask them for a bid to remove the swirls and then take that bid and your filing costs and make a small claims court filing and you will get IMMEDIATE satisfaction.
Be sure, if the dealer says that they will fix it that you accompany the salesman or whomever to the detail shop and find out what they are going to do to correct the swirls.
They should use a high speed rotary buffer at about 1300RPM and a foam polishing pad, with a swirl remover product.
If this does not work then they put scratches in the car in the form of swirls and it may require a light compound with a foam cutting pad to remove the scratches and then the polishing pad and swirl remover polish and finally another coat of Auto Armor.
Auto Armor is a company in the mid-west that caters to dealers with their protection package chemicals. They are a good company and their products are as good as any on the market. Not worth the prices the dealer charges, but they seem to be able to sell them to unsuspecting buyers.
Let us know what happens.
Regards
Bud Abraham
buda@detailplus.com</HTML>
buda
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Re: black car in sunlight April 16, 2005 02:21AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>While we may suspect the dealer of being the culprit ...would you not think it would be prudent to find out when the vehicle was purchased and what has been done if anything by the owner.
Once this has been established one is in a better position to tell the dealer in no uncertain terms what is needed to be done to correct the problem.
Every day I get calls from consumers stating thay they have a brand new vehicle or a new vehicle... on enquiring about the age they say it is 2000, 2001, 2002, the other day one said it was 1993 ...it was brand new to him.</HTML>
Once this has been established one is in a better position to tell the dealer in no uncertain terms what is needed to be done to correct the problem.
Every day I get calls from consumers stating thay they have a brand new vehicle or a new vehicle... on enquiring about the age they say it is 2000, 2001, 2002, the other day one said it was 1993 ...it was brand new to him.</HTML>
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Re: black car in sunlight April 16, 2005 05:01AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Concours:
You could be absolutely correct, but when he said he bought a Honda and included a Auto Armor Paint Protection I naturally assumed it was new as I have never heard of dealers selling new car protection plans on used cars.
But then again I could be wrong.
However, new or used, why should you purchase a car from a dealer with swirls in the paint? It is their responsibility to insure it is in as good a condition as possible. Buffer swirls in the paint is not my definition of good condition.
John, is the car new or used?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
You could be absolutely correct, but when he said he bought a Honda and included a Auto Armor Paint Protection I naturally assumed it was new as I have never heard of dealers selling new car protection plans on used cars.
But then again I could be wrong.
However, new or used, why should you purchase a car from a dealer with swirls in the paint? It is their responsibility to insure it is in as good a condition as possible. Buffer swirls in the paint is not my definition of good condition.
John, is the car new or used?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: black car in sunlight April 16, 2005 12:59PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML>Bud:
What I was trying to determine is if his definition of "new" is 2005 or 2001. or perhaps he is incorrectly diagnosing the problem as swirls when they could be huge circular patterns similar to a big cob-web resulting from improper wash techniques
You would be amazed at how many people tell me they have a "brand new car" only to discover it is 2,3,4, years old. I seems odd that he would be applying the renewal protection now, if the vehicle is new...thus I wanted to find out how he has washed and maintained the vehicle and eleminate him as a the culprit.
I have had this experience with clients..through proper sleuthing I discovered that they have taken the vehicle to the carwash and during the wash marred the surface, or they themselves wiped down or washed the vehicle and scratched it.</HTML>
What I was trying to determine is if his definition of "new" is 2005 or 2001. or perhaps he is incorrectly diagnosing the problem as swirls when they could be huge circular patterns similar to a big cob-web resulting from improper wash techniques
You would be amazed at how many people tell me they have a "brand new car" only to discover it is 2,3,4, years old. I seems odd that he would be applying the renewal protection now, if the vehicle is new...thus I wanted to find out how he has washed and maintained the vehicle and eleminate him as a the culprit.
I have had this experience with clients..through proper sleuthing I discovered that they have taken the vehicle to the carwash and during the wash marred the surface, or they themselves wiped down or washed the vehicle and scratched it.</HTML>
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Re: black car in sunlight April 16, 2005 01:07PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 585 |
<HTML><<Not worth the prices the dealer charges, but they seem to be able to sell them to unsuspecting buyers.>>
Bud:
Can you define worth for me?
Why are the buyers unsuspecting if the product is as good as any other and it is applied as directed and provides protection for the time specified.?</HTML>
Bud:
Can you define worth for me?
Why are the buyers unsuspecting if the product is as good as any other and it is applied as directed and provides protection for the time specified.?</HTML>
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Re: black car in sunlight April 16, 2005 03:14PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Yes, I understood completely the point you were making. But, as I said, it is not normal for a dealer to sell a protection package on a used car. That was my clue that it was probably new.
However, I could be wrong. Does anyone know of dealers who sell protection packages on used cars?
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
However, I could be wrong. Does anyone know of dealers who sell protection packages on used cars?
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: black car in sunlight April 16, 2005 03:17PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>VALUE - is what an individual perceives.
If the customer perceives that a guaranteed paint sealant has value then it has value right?
That is, if they are given the correct information. Those of us who formulate and market paint sealants know that they are only good for a limited amount of time and it is not 1 year; 2 years or more.
They might last for 3 to 4 months in good driving conditions.
If the dealer does not tell the customer this, then the customer is "unsuspecting."
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
If the customer perceives that a guaranteed paint sealant has value then it has value right?
That is, if they are given the correct information. Those of us who formulate and market paint sealants know that they are only good for a limited amount of time and it is not 1 year; 2 years or more.
They might last for 3 to 4 months in good driving conditions.
If the dealer does not tell the customer this, then the customer is "unsuspecting."
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: black car in sunlight April 16, 2005 04:01PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 751 |
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Re: black car in sunlight April 17, 2005 12:44AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: black car in sunlight April 17, 2005 12:44AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: black car in sunlight April 17, 2005 01:12AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 112 |
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Re: black car in sunlight April 17, 2005 01:28AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
<HTML>We have offered our Silver Medallion warranty program for used cars, up to 5 years old, for the past 5 years.
The new Clean Seal warranty products program, introduced at the ICA Show, is for carwashes and detailers, a bit different than our Car Dealer programs.
We offer a warranty program, backed just as our Dealership program we have provided since the early 80's, but slightly different, and used vehicles are included.
The Clean Seal program requires that the vehicle owner returns to the carwash or detailer that applied the products, each year.
Once the "applicator", IE, carwash/detailer has installed the products, they submit the warranty registration to us, it is entered in our data bank.
Then, each year, the purchaser, receives notification, personalized with the logo, etc of the installer, informing them they must return to them for their yearly inspection of the vehicle.
This insures that the "seller" gets the vehicle back, opens the door for them to sell a detail, interior cleaning, etc and makes sure that the vehicle is not abused.
This program has received great responses from the industry, plus they get personalized point of sales materials to use, at no charge, etc.
It is time for the carwash and detailing industry to move forward and use the successful marketing that chains such as the quick lubes, brake, muffler etc business have used successfully for years, as well as the New Vehicle Dealers.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
The new Clean Seal warranty products program, introduced at the ICA Show, is for carwashes and detailers, a bit different than our Car Dealer programs.
We offer a warranty program, backed just as our Dealership program we have provided since the early 80's, but slightly different, and used vehicles are included.
The Clean Seal program requires that the vehicle owner returns to the carwash or detailer that applied the products, each year.
Once the "applicator", IE, carwash/detailer has installed the products, they submit the warranty registration to us, it is entered in our data bank.
Then, each year, the purchaser, receives notification, personalized with the logo, etc of the installer, informing them they must return to them for their yearly inspection of the vehicle.
This insures that the "seller" gets the vehicle back, opens the door for them to sell a detail, interior cleaning, etc and makes sure that the vehicle is not abused.
This program has received great responses from the industry, plus they get personalized point of sales materials to use, at no charge, etc.
It is time for the carwash and detailing industry to move forward and use the successful marketing that chains such as the quick lubes, brake, muffler etc business have used successfully for years, as well as the New Vehicle Dealers.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: black car in sunlight April 17, 2005 01:51AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 6 |
<HTML>Bought the car last july,brand new.always wash 1 section @ atime,with a mitt,maguires car wash,and dry with a microfiber towel.the auto armor is to be applied every 6 months. Must admit we had a rough winterhere,20 snowstorms. So Im sure the sand and salt did not help.Like I said, it looks bad at an angle with the sun on it. My wife says Im nuts.</HTML>
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Re: black car in sunlight April 17, 2005 01:57AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
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Re: black car in sunlight April 17, 2005 02:00AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>PAINT PROTECTION ON USED CARS
I am doing a two day training class for Toyota for their dealer detailers for the Toyota Certified Program in June.
Will be sure to ask the representative that engaged our company if they do, in fact, have a PPP for used Toyotas and Lexus'
Thanks for the update Mike.
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
I am doing a two day training class for Toyota for their dealer detailers for the Toyota Certified Program in June.
Will be sure to ask the representative that engaged our company if they do, in fact, have a PPP for used Toyotas and Lexus'
Thanks for the update Mike.
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS</HTML>
buda
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Re: black car in sunlight April 17, 2005 10:45PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
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Re: black car in sunlight April 22, 2005 01:15PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 112 |
<HTML>Bump,
Dealer is off-site for a sale this week, so I'm not getting too far with the PPP stuff. UCM, NCM, and principle are AWOL. Better luck Monday maybe.
Off-site sales are very popular down here. I never could understand how they can justify the THOUSANDS of dollars to put on one of these sales. But when they work right, the dealer comes back with only a fraction of the inventory the left with so, go figure.
Mike</HTML>
-Get that great new car feeling!-
Dealer is off-site for a sale this week, so I'm not getting too far with the PPP stuff. UCM, NCM, and principle are AWOL. Better luck Monday maybe.
Off-site sales are very popular down here. I never could understand how they can justify the THOUSANDS of dollars to put on one of these sales. But when they work right, the dealer comes back with only a fraction of the inventory the left with so, go figure.
Mike</HTML>
-Get that great new car feeling!-
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