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a question to the professionals
Posted by robert norton
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a question to the professionals April 20, 2005 08:06PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 8 |
<HTML>I am the one who posted the question about using Pledge on a car's finish. I admired the appearance of the car, but have now been told that Pledge contains silicone. I have been told silicone is no good for the finish of a car.
Other than the difficulty to re-paint the vehicle, can any one of you professionals tell me why silicone is no good for the finish? Is there a chemical reason that silicone will "attack" the paint? I do not want to harm my finish in the long-run, for a short-term shine. I have also read that natural waxes (Zymol for example) do not react well to being applied on top of silicone. Any truth to that?
Any advise is welcomed.
Bob</HTML>
Other than the difficulty to re-paint the vehicle, can any one of you professionals tell me why silicone is no good for the finish? Is there a chemical reason that silicone will "attack" the paint? I do not want to harm my finish in the long-run, for a short-term shine. I have also read that natural waxes (Zymol for example) do not react well to being applied on top of silicone. Any truth to that?
Any advise is welcomed.
Bob</HTML>
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Re: a question to the professionals April 20, 2005 09:58PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 51 |
<HTML>Silicone:
Siloxanes [: saturated silicon-oxygen hydrides with un-branched or branched chains of alternating silicon and oxygen atoms (-Si-O-Si-)
Silicones are basically inert; the myth / misinformation of grouping all silicones into one category and label them harmful; environmentally unsound or dangerous is just that, a myth, and like most myths / misinformation there is a little truth in it.(The Bad: Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates, which are environmentally unsound, The Good: Polydimethylsiloxane (PDS) is a basically inert)
“Unlike other protectants, you will not see the word “silicone” listed in the ingredients. Because they do not contain silicone, these products will not harm your paint, chrome, glass, or plastic windows of your convertible.” Making a blanket statement that products that contain silicone are harmful shows a lack of any real knowledge of either science or petroleum refining; these irresponsible statements are just negative marketing.</HTML>
[ each one / teach one, then student /becomes teacher ]
Siloxanes [: saturated silicon-oxygen hydrides with un-branched or branched chains of alternating silicon and oxygen atoms (-Si-O-Si-)
Silicones are basically inert; the myth / misinformation of grouping all silicones into one category and label them harmful; environmentally unsound or dangerous is just that, a myth, and like most myths / misinformation there is a little truth in it.(The Bad: Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates, which are environmentally unsound, The Good: Polydimethylsiloxane (PDS) is a basically inert)
“Unlike other protectants, you will not see the word “silicone” listed in the ingredients. Because they do not contain silicone, these products will not harm your paint, chrome, glass, or plastic windows of your convertible.” Making a blanket statement that products that contain silicone are harmful shows a lack of any real knowledge of either science or petroleum refining; these irresponsible statements are just negative marketing.</HTML>
[ each one / teach one, then student /becomes teacher ]
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Re: a question to the professionals April 21, 2005 04:41AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
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Re: a question to the professionals April 21, 2005 09:38PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 8 |
<HTML>Then that also kills the myth that silicone sprays dry out the rubber weather stripping. True?
I love the way silicone makes the surface of just-about-anything look, but the stories are many. And many come from people in the business that I respect. I have been in the auto business (mechanical) for 30 years. I have restotred a few old cars and won my class a few times. The people at the shows that have built as many, or more, old cars as I have, have been sharing these stories for years. You listen and keep quite in the beginning, and eventually you join in, and now you are also spreading the false stories.
I always found it a little hard to believe that a product so harmfull continued to survive for over 30 years. But you do not want to be the one that found out it was "bad" the hard way. It was easier to avoid it and just believe the stories that Joe knew someone, who had a friend, who's cousin ruined his paint using a certain brand of wax. Or, his weather stripping cracked and fell off because he sprayed it with silicone. Or in my case, someone I met at a show, that I learned to respect, used Pledge.
Myths run their course, and as we get older and wiser we learn from others the stories are not true. Then we change. After all, I never did go blind.
Bob</HTML>
I love the way silicone makes the surface of just-about-anything look, but the stories are many. And many come from people in the business that I respect. I have been in the auto business (mechanical) for 30 years. I have restotred a few old cars and won my class a few times. The people at the shows that have built as many, or more, old cars as I have, have been sharing these stories for years. You listen and keep quite in the beginning, and eventually you join in, and now you are also spreading the false stories.
I always found it a little hard to believe that a product so harmfull continued to survive for over 30 years. But you do not want to be the one that found out it was "bad" the hard way. It was easier to avoid it and just believe the stories that Joe knew someone, who had a friend, who's cousin ruined his paint using a certain brand of wax. Or, his weather stripping cracked and fell off because he sprayed it with silicone. Or in my case, someone I met at a show, that I learned to respect, used Pledge.
Myths run their course, and as we get older and wiser we learn from others the stories are not true. Then we change. After all, I never did go blind.
Bob</HTML>
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Re: a question to the professionals April 21, 2005 09:59PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 12 |
<HTML>
Different material and there are diferent kinds of rubber dressing products.
Take a look at some of the TSBs and articles on [www.autoint.com]. They discuss the effects of dimethyl silicone on rubber.</HTML>
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
Quote
Then that also kills the myth that silicone sprays dry out the rubber weather stripping. True?
Different material and there are diferent kinds of rubber dressing products.
Take a look at some of the TSBs and articles on [www.autoint.com]. They discuss the effects of dimethyl silicone on rubber.</HTML>
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
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Re: a question to the professionals April 22, 2005 02:00AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 201 |
<HTML>I would say that 99% of car protecting products contain silicone. Silicone makes wax easier to use ,gives a better shine , lasts longer, makes rubber and vinyl look better. Modern silicone is a good thing. Silicone was first put in car polish in 1947. The first car polish with silicone was called Autobrite.</HTML>
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Re: a question to the professionals April 22, 2005 09:51PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 51 |
<HTML> •The Good: Polydimethylsiloxane (PDS) is a basically inert, water based, amino functional polymer that doesn't migrate (dry out) the plasticizers from materials, has less UV radiation absorption and dust attraction properties. Chemists use water-in-oil emulsions, to reduce emulsion particle size, to stabilize emulsions, and to improve spreading and coverage of wax products. Most modern silicone formulas are water soluble (no petroleum), and are completely inert. The best way to describe most forms of silicone is to think of it as a man-made wax ester. Silicone is created by the reaction generated when you combine fatty acids with Polydimethylsiloxane
•The Bad: Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates, which are environmentally unsound and give a slick, oily finish, which attracts dust and dirt and amplifies sunlight causing vinyl and most plastics to dry out and crack. It also causes rubber compounds along with sun iteration to remove the micro-wax in tyres as well as its carbon black (it's what gives tyres their colour) they are often mislabelled as modem /synthetic polymers by manufactures.
•The Ugly: Silicone is an active ingredient in sun UV amplification. As a low quality silicone dressing evaporates away, the silicone oil is left behind, the sun then amplifies these residues, and the drying process is accelerated. This causes rubber, EDPM, vinyl and plastics to dry out, which turns them grey or brown, losing their flexibility and prematurely fail. Water-based dressings do not contain oils or petroleum distillates and provide a non- greasy, natural looking satin finish.
.For a Few Dollars More: Hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates can be further purified, re-distilled, reacted and combined with various other chemicals to produce a wide range of environmentally safe and useful silicone products.
JonM</HTML>
[ each one / teach one, then student /becomes teacher ]
•The Bad: Dimethyl is derived from Aromatic hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates, which are environmentally unsound and give a slick, oily finish, which attracts dust and dirt and amplifies sunlight causing vinyl and most plastics to dry out and crack. It also causes rubber compounds along with sun iteration to remove the micro-wax in tyres as well as its carbon black (it's what gives tyres their colour) they are often mislabelled as modem /synthetic polymers by manufactures.
•The Ugly: Silicone is an active ingredient in sun UV amplification. As a low quality silicone dressing evaporates away, the silicone oil is left behind, the sun then amplifies these residues, and the drying process is accelerated. This causes rubber, EDPM, vinyl and plastics to dry out, which turns them grey or brown, losing their flexibility and prematurely fail. Water-based dressings do not contain oils or petroleum distillates and provide a non- greasy, natural looking satin finish.
.For a Few Dollars More: Hydrocarbon (petroleum) distillates can be further purified, re-distilled, reacted and combined with various other chemicals to produce a wide range of environmentally safe and useful silicone products.
JonM</HTML>
[ each one / teach one, then student /becomes teacher ]
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Re: a question to the professionals April 23, 2005 02:50AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
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Re: a question to the professionals May 03, 2005 11:44PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 8 |
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