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Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber
Posted by Steve Bough
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Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 22, 2005 10:17PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 37 |
<HTML>Have a painter in town who used oil based silver paint to paint some tall fuel storage tanks.
Now we have 50+ vehicles to clean the silver overspray off. Clay seems to be working well on the painted surfaces but we're having a bit of a problem with the paint on the rubber and textured vinyl trim.
Any ideas?
Steve Bough
The Shine Shop
Jasper, Indiana
PDTA Member</HTML>
Now we have 50+ vehicles to clean the silver overspray off. Clay seems to be working well on the painted surfaces but we're having a bit of a problem with the paint on the rubber and textured vinyl trim.
Any ideas?
Steve Bough
The Shine Shop
Jasper, Indiana
PDTA Member</HTML>
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 23, 2005 02:56AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
<HTML>You got the same problem that has been there for years.
That paint has a fairly active solvent system.
It "bit" into the trim.
That is why Mazda and Hyundia, now Mitsubishi, require the use of the ValuGard ETR-II kit to fix the problem, rather than replace the parts.
If a solvent is used, that is "active" enough to remove the paint particles, the solvent will damage the part, and over time, it will discolor, turn a grey or white color.
The Mazda TSB is not on our site, but the Hyundai and soon to be released Mitsubishi is, under the OEM/TSB area, of www.autoint.com
If you wish, I can have the Mazda one sent, via email to you.
This is not a "dressing", this system keeps the black trim black for anywhere from 2 to 5 years, like new.
This is not "modified" shoe polish, like so many sold to enthusists,(need I name them) , that should be clear to anyone, since none of those have vehicle manufacturer tech bulletins for their use.
No "masking", no "spraying", it's simple, just "follow the directions", don't try to do otherwise.
ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
That paint has a fairly active solvent system.
It "bit" into the trim.
That is why Mazda and Hyundia, now Mitsubishi, require the use of the ValuGard ETR-II kit to fix the problem, rather than replace the parts.
If a solvent is used, that is "active" enough to remove the paint particles, the solvent will damage the part, and over time, it will discolor, turn a grey or white color.
The Mazda TSB is not on our site, but the Hyundai and soon to be released Mitsubishi is, under the OEM/TSB area, of www.autoint.com
If you wish, I can have the Mazda one sent, via email to you.
This is not a "dressing", this system keeps the black trim black for anywhere from 2 to 5 years, like new.
This is not "modified" shoe polish, like so many sold to enthusists,(need I name them) , that should be clear to anyone, since none of those have vehicle manufacturer tech bulletins for their use.
No "masking", no "spraying", it's simple, just "follow the directions", don't try to do otherwise.
ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 24, 2005 02:27AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 237 |
<HTML>...and it removes the paint fallout as wel as protecting the rubbers/plastics?
We had one of these last week, and had the same problem, especially on black plastic wing mirrors. We used a dry cloth and elbow grease on the rubbers. Luckily it had matt finish window rubbers and not the shiny kind.
With the plastics, we just had to pick the specs off with our finger nails! But we didn't have 50 cars to do!
We are entering the fence-paint fallout season, so it won't be the last this year.</HTML>
We had one of these last week, and had the same problem, especially on black plastic wing mirrors. We used a dry cloth and elbow grease on the rubbers. Luckily it had matt finish window rubbers and not the shiny kind.
With the plastics, we just had to pick the specs off with our finger nails! But we didn't have 50 cars to do!
We are entering the fence-paint fallout season, so it won't be the last this year.</HTML>
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 24, 2005 01:10PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
<HTML>Dan, you must be confusing the ABC system that vehicle manufacturers use and require with the ETR kit.
ABC is for IFO, ferrous oxide deposits, light concrete deposits, rail dust, etc,.
ETR is the exterior trim repair products, that makes the black or grey exterior trim pieces new again. It is not a "dressing", nor is a modified "shoe polish", like Black to Black, Forever Black, etc.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
ABC is for IFO, ferrous oxide deposits, light concrete deposits, rail dust, etc,.
ETR is the exterior trim repair products, that makes the black or grey exterior trim pieces new again. It is not a "dressing", nor is a modified "shoe polish", like Black to Black, Forever Black, etc.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 24, 2005 01:29PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 12 |
<HTML>Sounds like Trim-A-Shield is a very similar product:
[www.trimonex.com];
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
[www.trimonex.com];
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 24, 2005 01:56PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
<HTML>Not familar with this "Trim a Shield".
The ETR has an OEM, proven track record, plus Hyundai Korea, required Hyundai US to do independant Accelerated Weathering and UV lab testing, before they approved it's use on somewhere around 45,000 new vehicles afew years back.
The independant lab tests, paid for and administrated by Hyundai USA, showed that the mirrors, door handles, etc parts treated with the ETR materials, outlasted the factory parts used as a base line in the test protocal.
Mazda used the system to save replacing all the exterior parts on somewhere in the area of 4,000 new B-2000 pickups, which had be exposed to an expoxy paint overspray, while setting at the Edison, N.J. plant, waiting for shipment to dealers.
Mazda had a private contractor use the ETR kit on the vehicles, saving them about $2,500.00 per vehicle, and then tracked the VIN numbers for trim warranty claims during the 3 year tracking life.
Mazda issued a TSB for this in 1996, but since we packed the products in a special size and bottle for them, never put the TSB on our site.
Not one claim was ever filed against these VIN numbers for trim warranty, vs their normal small % of claims for new vehicle trim claims.
Mazda US and Canada are preparing a new TSB for the use of this system due to some mirror, cowl and other small parts fading on the new 6, 3 and Tribute. This TSB may be out in a month or two.
This kit is the only one we are aware of, that has ever been tested, approved and used by vehicle manufacturers.
I am doing a demo of it Monday for PPG, as they are looking at adding it to their "paint repair" system for small repairs, and Tuesday, will be demonstrating it to DaimlerChrysler, US.
Watch our website for new TSB's from manufacturers, Mitsubishi's new TSB for the ETR is up, but in draft form at present, haven't received their final dealer issued copy as yet.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
The ETR has an OEM, proven track record, plus Hyundai Korea, required Hyundai US to do independant Accelerated Weathering and UV lab testing, before they approved it's use on somewhere around 45,000 new vehicles afew years back.
The independant lab tests, paid for and administrated by Hyundai USA, showed that the mirrors, door handles, etc parts treated with the ETR materials, outlasted the factory parts used as a base line in the test protocal.
Mazda used the system to save replacing all the exterior parts on somewhere in the area of 4,000 new B-2000 pickups, which had be exposed to an expoxy paint overspray, while setting at the Edison, N.J. plant, waiting for shipment to dealers.
Mazda had a private contractor use the ETR kit on the vehicles, saving them about $2,500.00 per vehicle, and then tracked the VIN numbers for trim warranty claims during the 3 year tracking life.
Mazda issued a TSB for this in 1996, but since we packed the products in a special size and bottle for them, never put the TSB on our site.
Not one claim was ever filed against these VIN numbers for trim warranty, vs their normal small % of claims for new vehicle trim claims.
Mazda US and Canada are preparing a new TSB for the use of this system due to some mirror, cowl and other small parts fading on the new 6, 3 and Tribute. This TSB may be out in a month or two.
This kit is the only one we are aware of, that has ever been tested, approved and used by vehicle manufacturers.
I am doing a demo of it Monday for PPG, as they are looking at adding it to their "paint repair" system for small repairs, and Tuesday, will be demonstrating it to DaimlerChrysler, US.
Watch our website for new TSB's from manufacturers, Mitsubishi's new TSB for the ETR is up, but in draft form at present, haven't received their final dealer issued copy as yet.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 24, 2005 02:27PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 12 |
<HTML>Ah, the Edison, NJ plant: if it's near the old Ford one, across from Ray Catena Mercedes/Infiniti/Jag/Porsche, I used to pass by there all the time before I moved.
I don't know Ketch, maybe someone has tried to copy your product?</HTML>
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
I don't know Ketch, maybe someone has tried to copy your product?</HTML>
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 24, 2005 02:45PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
<HTML>Yeah, that's the plant, Ford Rangers and Mazda B-2000's built there.
Look at it while you can, for it is scheduled for shutdown.
Too old to revamp, so it goes away.
They will be built in a new plant in Detriot now.
Companies always try to knock off other's products, we have been known to "reverse engineer" a really good product from time to time.
This one, and the ABC, are the two main targets of many companies.
However, since chemists are book learned, and the company that wants a knockoff, are not normally "field experienced" they miss the mark.
Which is why they seldom get more than quick look, by the vehicle manufacturers engineers, etc.
To be approved for just testing, requires a complete devulenge of all the components, etc, then to tox/world health labs, and if it passes there, then the real testing starts to be done.
Takes as little as 3 months up to as long as 3 years to get through the whole process.
Not many of these little bathtubbers have the manpower or financial resources to do this.
But, as long as some marketing "whiz banger" has a few bucks and there are small bathtubbers throwing together products, a nice bottle, a nice label and lots of sizzle talk, the junk will continue to come forth for the uneducated users.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
Look at it while you can, for it is scheduled for shutdown.
Too old to revamp, so it goes away.
They will be built in a new plant in Detriot now.
Companies always try to knock off other's products, we have been known to "reverse engineer" a really good product from time to time.
This one, and the ABC, are the two main targets of many companies.
However, since chemists are book learned, and the company that wants a knockoff, are not normally "field experienced" they miss the mark.
Which is why they seldom get more than quick look, by the vehicle manufacturers engineers, etc.
To be approved for just testing, requires a complete devulenge of all the components, etc, then to tox/world health labs, and if it passes there, then the real testing starts to be done.
Takes as little as 3 months up to as long as 3 years to get through the whole process.
Not many of these little bathtubbers have the manpower or financial resources to do this.
But, as long as some marketing "whiz banger" has a few bucks and there are small bathtubbers throwing together products, a nice bottle, a nice label and lots of sizzle talk, the junk will continue to come forth for the uneducated users.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 24, 2005 02:58PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 12 |
<HTML>If I ever need to re visit up there, I'm sure it will be long a gone. I recall a few years back seeing on the local news about a painter who had worked there, oh, must've been 50 years plus. He was retiring and was given a fully loaded Lincoln Town Car by Ford.
Yeah,I have to assmue the comparable product isn't much more than bathtubber quality.</HTML>
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
Yeah,I have to assmue the comparable product isn't much more than bathtubber quality.</HTML>
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 24, 2005 03:11PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
<HTML>Bill, it may be a good product.
However, what is missing, for the most part, in this industry of detailing, is "real documented, facts", and the "testing" that a "chemical manufacturer" may submit as "facts from their testing", is not acceptable.
Sort of like the "testing" that goes on over at that forum you moderate for, or the "wax guru's" testing.
Not acceptable to the vehicle companies or their paint vendors, trim vendors, etc.
At our booth at the ICA show the first of this month, I had a couple of books that had several of the vehicle manufacturers lab tests, with protocals, of several detailing products.
In these books were also "chemical marketers or manufacturers" own tests that touted their products.
As I sat with several detailers and we went through the vehicle manufacturers test protocals and results, compared to the marketers, the difference was very obvious.
The books were marked very clearly, "not public reproduction or distribution", as the information contained in them was not our property, we hadn't paid for it.
We do have permission to reproduce them for our internal use, but not redistribute them, without written permission from the car companies legal departments.
Yet, more than once, I had to chase down a person and get the book back.
Guess they really wanted to have one, but "no way".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
However, what is missing, for the most part, in this industry of detailing, is "real documented, facts", and the "testing" that a "chemical manufacturer" may submit as "facts from their testing", is not acceptable.
Sort of like the "testing" that goes on over at that forum you moderate for, or the "wax guru's" testing.
Not acceptable to the vehicle companies or their paint vendors, trim vendors, etc.
At our booth at the ICA show the first of this month, I had a couple of books that had several of the vehicle manufacturers lab tests, with protocals, of several detailing products.
In these books were also "chemical marketers or manufacturers" own tests that touted their products.
As I sat with several detailers and we went through the vehicle manufacturers test protocals and results, compared to the marketers, the difference was very obvious.
The books were marked very clearly, "not public reproduction or distribution", as the information contained in them was not our property, we hadn't paid for it.
We do have permission to reproduce them for our internal use, but not redistribute them, without written permission from the car companies legal departments.
Yet, more than once, I had to chase down a person and get the book back.
Guess they really wanted to have one, but "no way".
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 24, 2005 03:26PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 12 |
<HTML>That is very interesting Ketch. I had always thought about what testing brands or manufacturers rely upon before bring a product to market. Good info to be aware of. I wish strict testing protocol existed for all detailing products.</HTML>
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 24, 2005 03:40PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
<HTML>Bill,
Cost is always a factor to the chemical manufacturers.
The OEM's that we private label for may require that we pay for the entire test, or if they are in a bind, need a product/products to solve a warranty issue, Federal Recall, etc, may ask that we pay half, or best is when they pay all the testing costs.
There is a new Mazda TSB coming out regarding corossion issues, and Mazda Japan paid for the whole test of the product we will be supplying.
When Hyundai had their trim issue, they asked at that we pay for the testing, $5,800.00 and I told em to stick it!
They had the $20,000,000.00 problem, not us, and the amount of product that would be required to solve it was well under $10,000.00.
They paid, same with the Federal Recall for control arm corossion, they paid to have our rust inhibitor and undercoating tested, not us.
A paint sealant test, such as we had to supply to DaimlerChrysler, Saturn, Nissan, Renualt, costs over $12,000.00 and we have to pay for those tests.
A fabric protectant independant lab test costs between $5,000.00 and $7,800.00 dependant upon the test protocal required.
It goes on and on.
Other times, they don't even ask for us to take part, just have us send them the formulations, with a privacy agreement, and do the testing for the products at their expense.
Every product that we market under our ValuGard or CleanSeal brand, for detailing, new vehicle prep and warranty products, with the exception of two, have been through Ford, GM and DCX lab testing. All were approved, as they are continually having us "private label" these products for them.
We saw the VOC compliant issue coming years back, we were aware or the ground water toxin issue, years ago, the coming OSHA product safety concerns that are just over the horizon, we were aware of and have been making the formualtion changes, putting them in effect, for years.
We are not geniuses, but having the day to day working relationships that we do, with the vehicle manufacturers, makes it easy for us to be ahead of curve.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
Cost is always a factor to the chemical manufacturers.
The OEM's that we private label for may require that we pay for the entire test, or if they are in a bind, need a product/products to solve a warranty issue, Federal Recall, etc, may ask that we pay half, or best is when they pay all the testing costs.
There is a new Mazda TSB coming out regarding corossion issues, and Mazda Japan paid for the whole test of the product we will be supplying.
When Hyundai had their trim issue, they asked at that we pay for the testing, $5,800.00 and I told em to stick it!
They had the $20,000,000.00 problem, not us, and the amount of product that would be required to solve it was well under $10,000.00.
They paid, same with the Federal Recall for control arm corossion, they paid to have our rust inhibitor and undercoating tested, not us.
A paint sealant test, such as we had to supply to DaimlerChrysler, Saturn, Nissan, Renualt, costs over $12,000.00 and we have to pay for those tests.
A fabric protectant independant lab test costs between $5,000.00 and $7,800.00 dependant upon the test protocal required.
It goes on and on.
Other times, they don't even ask for us to take part, just have us send them the formulations, with a privacy agreement, and do the testing for the products at their expense.
Every product that we market under our ValuGard or CleanSeal brand, for detailing, new vehicle prep and warranty products, with the exception of two, have been through Ford, GM and DCX lab testing. All were approved, as they are continually having us "private label" these products for them.
We saw the VOC compliant issue coming years back, we were aware or the ground water toxin issue, years ago, the coming OSHA product safety concerns that are just over the horizon, we were aware of and have been making the formualtion changes, putting them in effect, for years.
We are not geniuses, but having the day to day working relationships that we do, with the vehicle manufacturers, makes it easy for us to be ahead of curve.
Ketch</HTML>
Do it right or don't do it all!
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 24, 2005 04:05PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 12 |
<HTML>Ah ha. I bet even the big names in the detailing chemical business would be hesitant to invest in such costly tests. Always an enlightening discussion with you. Thanks for sharing!</HTML>
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 25, 2005 01:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 241 |
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Re: Overspray on Vinyl & Rubber April 25, 2005 02:49AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 12 |
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