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Doorjambs
Posted by Joey M
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Re: Doorjambs January 10, 2006 05:16AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 146 |
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Re: Doorjambs January 10, 2006 06:23AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Joey:
It is a science cleaning door jambs like all other detail jobs.
First you evaluate the soil in the door jambs before putting any water to them.
If it is grease then you spray with tar and grease remover and let it dwell to emulsify the grease and then hit with the pressure washer and that should take it out.
If it is dirt then hit it with a alkaline cleaner that is strong enough to cut the dirt but not stain the paint, and then the pressure washer.
That should do it. If you are anal and/or this does not get it then you need to take a spray bottle and some chemical as described and work it that way.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
It is a science cleaning door jambs like all other detail jobs.
First you evaluate the soil in the door jambs before putting any water to them.
If it is grease then you spray with tar and grease remover and let it dwell to emulsify the grease and then hit with the pressure washer and that should take it out.
If it is dirt then hit it with a alkaline cleaner that is strong enough to cut the dirt but not stain the paint, and then the pressure washer.
That should do it. If you are anal and/or this does not get it then you need to take a spray bottle and some chemical as described and work it that way.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Doorjambs January 11, 2006 05:43AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 894 |
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Re: Doorjambs January 11, 2006 06:26AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Dan:
I believe that all water based cleaners use water based solvents.
Are you using a degreaser or an all purpose cleaner. These are formulated differently so you need to be careful exactly what you are using.
An engine degreaser; white wall cleaner; non-acid wheel cleaner are all water based cleaners using water based solvents, just as a water based all purpose cleaner with water-based solvents does.
What are you using? What does the instructions on the label say, that is, for what purposes?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
I believe that all water based cleaners use water based solvents.
Are you using a degreaser or an all purpose cleaner. These are formulated differently so you need to be careful exactly what you are using.
An engine degreaser; white wall cleaner; non-acid wheel cleaner are all water based cleaners using water based solvents, just as a water based all purpose cleaner with water-based solvents does.
What are you using? What does the instructions on the label say, that is, for what purposes?
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Doorjambs January 11, 2006 03:31PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 894 |
<HTML>Bud,
Our degreaser is formulated with sodium metasilicate, butoxyethenol, and a safe amount of sodium hydroxide( these are what I was reffering to as water based solvents). It is 3D Grand Slam, I forgot to mention we cut the solution 50-50 with water. This is what we use to clean white walls, tires, door jambs, very dirty engines( when we ever do), fenderwells, and any body part that needs presoaking( bugs, tar, etc..). And no, there is no damage to any body parts from presoaking.
Our wheel cleaner as Ron knows is custom wheel cleaner, it has no water based solvents, just a MILD acid adjusted with a safe PH to not cause damage. I have no faith in wheel cleaners that rely on water based solvents.
Our leather, vinyl and plastic cleaner( I guess this is our all purpose cleaner) is surely not formulated with any of the above. Its formulated like all soap, with TSP, no water based solvents, just good old cleaning action with plain soap, oh yea and a mild PH balance.
Anything else I missed?
Dan Draper
DRAPERSAUTOIMAGERY.com</HTML>
Our degreaser is formulated with sodium metasilicate, butoxyethenol, and a safe amount of sodium hydroxide( these are what I was reffering to as water based solvents). It is 3D Grand Slam, I forgot to mention we cut the solution 50-50 with water. This is what we use to clean white walls, tires, door jambs, very dirty engines( when we ever do), fenderwells, and any body part that needs presoaking( bugs, tar, etc..). And no, there is no damage to any body parts from presoaking.
Our wheel cleaner as Ron knows is custom wheel cleaner, it has no water based solvents, just a MILD acid adjusted with a safe PH to not cause damage. I have no faith in wheel cleaners that rely on water based solvents.
Our leather, vinyl and plastic cleaner( I guess this is our all purpose cleaner) is surely not formulated with any of the above. Its formulated like all soap, with TSP, no water based solvents, just good old cleaning action with plain soap, oh yea and a mild PH balance.
Anything else I missed?
Dan Draper
DRAPERSAUTOIMAGERY.com</HTML>
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Re: Doorjambs January 12, 2006 04:59AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Dan:
A high ph chemical which the one you describe must be if you use it for engines and white walls is really a degreaser, not a product that should be used on any painted surfaces.
A alkaline cleaning product for anything but engines and white walls that has sodium hydroxide it in, which is one of the "hottest" caustics, should not be used for anything but cleaning engines and white walls.
As any chemist will tell you diluting an alkaline product does not really lower the ph, it is still hot. It might at best lower the ph by one or two points.
All you are doing is reducing the effectiveness of the cleaning elements in the product, making it less effective.
Why not simply use products for what they are designed for:
Engine Cleaner
Wheel Cleaner
White Wall Cleaner
Pre Soap for Body of the car
Shampoo
Carpet Shampoo
Trying to use an engine degreaser for all functions is not a smart approach to take to detailing.
That is like washing your hair with Joy or taking a bath with Tide liquid laundry degergent. Sure they work, and work quite well, but at what cost?
Just my take on responsible chemical useage in the detail business.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
A high ph chemical which the one you describe must be if you use it for engines and white walls is really a degreaser, not a product that should be used on any painted surfaces.
A alkaline cleaning product for anything but engines and white walls that has sodium hydroxide it in, which is one of the "hottest" caustics, should not be used for anything but cleaning engines and white walls.
As any chemist will tell you diluting an alkaline product does not really lower the ph, it is still hot. It might at best lower the ph by one or two points.
All you are doing is reducing the effectiveness of the cleaning elements in the product, making it less effective.
Why not simply use products for what they are designed for:
Engine Cleaner
Wheel Cleaner
White Wall Cleaner
Pre Soap for Body of the car
Shampoo
Carpet Shampoo
Trying to use an engine degreaser for all functions is not a smart approach to take to detailing.
That is like washing your hair with Joy or taking a bath with Tide liquid laundry degergent. Sure they work, and work quite well, but at what cost?
Just my take on responsible chemical useage in the detail business.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Doorjambs January 12, 2006 01:51PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 894 |
<HTML>Bud,
I don't really know if you read my post or if you just like to argue for the sake of arguing?
We don't use a degreaser for all functions. We use a degreaser for what it is intended to do, clean heavy dirt from engines, door jambs and fenderwells. We also use it for presoaking, why not when there is no damage to any surfaces, even when left to dry in the sun. I need to make a correction in my last post, the product does not work well on tar, a different product is used for that.
In years past, Ive used products with larger amounts of sodium hydroxide, and yes I agree with you, they should not be used on painted surfaces. The amount in this product is so small, I dont even notice it.
Sure, the degreaser is not as effective in cleaning white walls as a white wall cleaning specific product, but who wants or needs one. Its not hard to use a brass brush really quick and cut down on buying of different chemicals.
I never said diluting products lowers the PH.
All of our products are task specific. Everything from cleaning out air vents to spotting a grease stain on fabric to removing swirl marks, all of those products are task specific.
Who really cares that I am using a degreaser on white walls instead of a white wall cleaner?
I can understand and appreciate that you need to sell as many different types of chemicals out there, but we know what to use and don't really need any help, not to be rude.
Dan Draper
DRAPERSAUTOIMAGERY.com</HTML>
I don't really know if you read my post or if you just like to argue for the sake of arguing?
We don't use a degreaser for all functions. We use a degreaser for what it is intended to do, clean heavy dirt from engines, door jambs and fenderwells. We also use it for presoaking, why not when there is no damage to any surfaces, even when left to dry in the sun. I need to make a correction in my last post, the product does not work well on tar, a different product is used for that.
In years past, Ive used products with larger amounts of sodium hydroxide, and yes I agree with you, they should not be used on painted surfaces. The amount in this product is so small, I dont even notice it.
Sure, the degreaser is not as effective in cleaning white walls as a white wall cleaning specific product, but who wants or needs one. Its not hard to use a brass brush really quick and cut down on buying of different chemicals.
I never said diluting products lowers the PH.
All of our products are task specific. Everything from cleaning out air vents to spotting a grease stain on fabric to removing swirl marks, all of those products are task specific.
Who really cares that I am using a degreaser on white walls instead of a white wall cleaner?
I can understand and appreciate that you need to sell as many different types of chemicals out there, but we know what to use and don't really need any help, not to be rude.
Dan Draper
DRAPERSAUTOIMAGERY.com</HTML>
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Re: Doorjambs January 13, 2006 10:59AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 146 |
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Re: Doorjambs January 13, 2006 11:39AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 8 |
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Re: Doorjambs January 13, 2006 02:21PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Dan
Sorry you took offense to my comments, however sodium hydroxide is a caustic and is not intended to be used on paint surfaces or or wheels since it can cause and staining of the surface.
It has always been my position that a detailer should use chemicals for what they are intended:
Engine degreasers for engines
Wheel cleaners for wheels
Pre Soaks for the body of the car
White Wall Cleaners for white walls
Tar & Grease removers for removing those elements
Carpet Shampoo for carpets
There is too often in this industry the tendency for detailers to think they know better than the chemical companies who sell the chemicals and the chemists who formulate them.
This attitude is what can cause damage. You might know what you are doing, but there are a great deal of detailers who do not and from what you stated there could be some misinterpretation.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Sorry you took offense to my comments, however sodium hydroxide is a caustic and is not intended to be used on paint surfaces or or wheels since it can cause and staining of the surface.
It has always been my position that a detailer should use chemicals for what they are intended:
Engine degreasers for engines
Wheel cleaners for wheels
Pre Soaks for the body of the car
White Wall Cleaners for white walls
Tar & Grease removers for removing those elements
Carpet Shampoo for carpets
There is too often in this industry the tendency for detailers to think they know better than the chemical companies who sell the chemicals and the chemists who formulate them.
This attitude is what can cause damage. You might know what you are doing, but there are a great deal of detailers who do not and from what you stated there could be some misinterpretation.
Regards
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Doorjambs January 13, 2006 04:14PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 894 |
<HTML>No offense taken and I do understand the need for clarification for others on the board since their are too many products out there, without proper care, can cause a whole lot of damage.
If you want to argue that sodium hydroxide is a hot chemical, so is Oxalic acid. Oxalic acid is used in many wheel cleaners, but becomes "relatively" safe when a chemist keeps the ph level safe, lets say at 5, then the chemical is not so hot.
This is another problem with the chemical industy, none of them have to show PH levels of products on the MSDS, which can make or break certain products.
For instance, oxolic acid is used as a prime ingredient in many fallout removal products, why one product fries paint and other products don't usually depends on how much acid is in the product, but a product with a large acid content with a midrange PH level can be safe to use with care.
This is probably why Ron's B product in the ABC system won't fry paint, he knew what he was doing and adjusted the PH safely, but it does contain the so called "dangerous" ingredient oxalic acid.
My point is, you can't just call certain products bad because of whats in there, its content amount and PH level that will determine what is safe or not.
Dan Draper
DRAPERSAUTOIMAGERY.com</HTML>
If you want to argue that sodium hydroxide is a hot chemical, so is Oxalic acid. Oxalic acid is used in many wheel cleaners, but becomes "relatively" safe when a chemist keeps the ph level safe, lets say at 5, then the chemical is not so hot.
This is another problem with the chemical industy, none of them have to show PH levels of products on the MSDS, which can make or break certain products.
For instance, oxolic acid is used as a prime ingredient in many fallout removal products, why one product fries paint and other products don't usually depends on how much acid is in the product, but a product with a large acid content with a midrange PH level can be safe to use with care.
This is probably why Ron's B product in the ABC system won't fry paint, he knew what he was doing and adjusted the PH safely, but it does contain the so called "dangerous" ingredient oxalic acid.
My point is, you can't just call certain products bad because of whats in there, its content amount and PH level that will determine what is safe or not.
Dan Draper
DRAPERSAUTOIMAGERY.com</HTML>
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Re: Doorjambs January 13, 2006 05:38PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 24 |
<HTML>Happy New Year.
With regards to testing the pH of products before use, I use some basic pH testing strips which can be had online, I'm sure, if not locally,perhaps in a pool maintenance shop.
Although they don't provide precise readings, they do give a good "ballpark" measurement.
I find them great to use if the pH of a product is unknown or while diluting a concentrate to make sure the pH is at a safe level.</HTML>
Nothing is good enough.There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
With regards to testing the pH of products before use, I use some basic pH testing strips which can be had online, I'm sure, if not locally,perhaps in a pool maintenance shop.
Although they don't provide precise readings, they do give a good "ballpark" measurement.
I find them great to use if the pH of a product is unknown or while diluting a concentrate to make sure the pH is at a safe level.</HTML>
Nothing is good enough.There is always a way to make it better; a way which we must all strive to learn. ---Sir Henry Royce
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Re: Doorjambs January 14, 2006 12:30PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 3,550 |
<HTML>Dan:
Thanks for the reply.
A couple of clarifications:
a. Sodium oxide (caustic or pot ash) is not a "chemical," it is an "ingredient in a water based, alkaline chemical.
b. Oaxlic acid is not used in wheel acids I think you mean hydroflouric acid.
c. Neither is particularly safe to the person. Oaxilic acid and hydroflouric acids are what you might call "skull and crossbones."
d. pH is a measure that is used to classify water based cleaners. The scale is measured from 1 to 14. Seven (7) is considered neutral and anything above 7 is alkaline and anything below is acidic.
In the alkaline catagory the higher the pH the "hotter" the chemical. An engine degreaser is 12 to 13 as are white wall cleaners. All purpose cleaners have a pH of around 8 to 9, but do not contain caustics. A good carpet shampoo has a pH of 7 to 8, also no caustics.
The lower the number in the acidic area the more "acidic" a chemical is.
As was posted you can buy from any water treatment store strips that will allow you to simply test the pH of a chemical, if that is important to you.
That is why I say you should use chemicals for what they were formulated for, such as engine degreaser, wheel cleaners, white wall cleaners; carpet shampoos; vinyl & leather cleaners, etc.
Sure an engine degreaser will work to clean carpets just as Joy would work to wash your hair or Tide laundry detergent would work as a body wash, but at what cost to the hair and to your skin.
Oaxlic acid as with any chemical, if used incorrectly can be dangerous to humans and to the vehicle, but if you use a rail dust remover from any legititmate chemical company you will not have a problem. It is if you go out and buy raw oaxlic acid and use it yourself and dilute it incorrectly that you will have a problem.
You make a great point, Ron Ketcham's ABC wash is a carefully formulated chemical system that has measured amounts of the proper ingredients for each step. Use it, and use it according to the instructions you are completely safe. That is my point, by from legitimate chemical companies and use them correctly and you are safe.
Thanks
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
Thanks for the reply.
A couple of clarifications:
a. Sodium oxide (caustic or pot ash) is not a "chemical," it is an "ingredient in a water based, alkaline chemical.
b. Oaxlic acid is not used in wheel acids I think you mean hydroflouric acid.
c. Neither is particularly safe to the person. Oaxilic acid and hydroflouric acids are what you might call "skull and crossbones."
d. pH is a measure that is used to classify water based cleaners. The scale is measured from 1 to 14. Seven (7) is considered neutral and anything above 7 is alkaline and anything below is acidic.
In the alkaline catagory the higher the pH the "hotter" the chemical. An engine degreaser is 12 to 13 as are white wall cleaners. All purpose cleaners have a pH of around 8 to 9, but do not contain caustics. A good carpet shampoo has a pH of 7 to 8, also no caustics.
The lower the number in the acidic area the more "acidic" a chemical is.
As was posted you can buy from any water treatment store strips that will allow you to simply test the pH of a chemical, if that is important to you.
That is why I say you should use chemicals for what they were formulated for, such as engine degreaser, wheel cleaners, white wall cleaners; carpet shampoos; vinyl & leather cleaners, etc.
Sure an engine degreaser will work to clean carpets just as Joy would work to wash your hair or Tide laundry detergent would work as a body wash, but at what cost to the hair and to your skin.
Oaxlic acid as with any chemical, if used incorrectly can be dangerous to humans and to the vehicle, but if you use a rail dust remover from any legititmate chemical company you will not have a problem. It is if you go out and buy raw oaxlic acid and use it yourself and dilute it incorrectly that you will have a problem.
You make a great point, Ron Ketcham's ABC wash is a carefully formulated chemical system that has measured amounts of the proper ingredients for each step. Use it, and use it according to the instructions you are completely safe. That is my point, by from legitimate chemical companies and use them correctly and you are safe.
Thanks
Bud Abraham</HTML>
buda
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Re: Doorjambs January 15, 2006 08:31PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 1,838 |
<HTML>I use either an APC; regular wash water; or a grease remover. The pressure washer is used only for the hinge area of the jambs. Don't want to overspray the fine leather and interior with our pressure washer, now do we.
I do agree that proper chemicals should be used for the prober job and task ahead -- no argument there. But I can say that I have never used a white-wall cleaner in over 8 years. My APC left to dwell for a minute or two on the tire gets them as white as they were new. Less caustic that WWC and more economical too.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
I do agree that proper chemicals should be used for the prober job and task ahead -- no argument there. But I can say that I have never used a white-wall cleaner in over 8 years. My APC left to dwell for a minute or two on the tire gets them as white as they were new. Less caustic that WWC and more economical too.</HTML>
Take care,
Brian
Precision Auto & Marine
Learn to detail boats! Visit www.detailtheboat.com
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Re: Doorjambs January 16, 2006 04:33AM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 894 |
<HTML>Brian,
Im with you 100% everything you just posted.
Bud,
The wheel acid I use contains oxalic acid and is perfectly safe if the rim is cool. I am guessing the PH is around 5. What is there left to talk about? Im not worried, I know you will find more words to add in this discussion,lol!
Dan Draper
DRAPERSAUTOIMAGERY.com</HTML>
Im with you 100% everything you just posted.
Bud,
The wheel acid I use contains oxalic acid and is perfectly safe if the rim is cool. I am guessing the PH is around 5. What is there left to talk about? Im not worried, I know you will find more words to add in this discussion,lol!
Dan Draper
DRAPERSAUTOIMAGERY.com</HTML>
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Chemical Field Test for pH January 16, 2006 12:37PM |
Registered: 17 years ago Posts: 59 |
<HTML>Bill's comment about using litmus paper makes sense. It's an easy way to field test any liquid chemical and litmus paper comes in a variety of packs that range from general pH to very specific readings of .05 measurement. Simply dip the test paper strip into the liquid and watch for a color change. Match the color to a guide and identify the pH. Everey detailer should have some for a handy quick reference guide.
You can find them at any chemical supply house or online.
-Steve</HTML>
You can find them at any chemical supply house or online.
-Steve</HTML>
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