Time Needed to Do a Full Detail

To paraphrase an old beer commercial, " This one's for you, Bud. "

Bud: I recall your alluding to a 2 hour full detail, made possible by your company's modern equipment.
I admit I scrape along on fairly primitive tools but-um-How on earth can anyone do a car in 2 hours !???

It can take me an hour to de-trash, remove stickers, and vacuum a vehicle perfectly. Dressing all vinyl and rubber runs about 30 minutes minimum. Washing and removing bugs and tar can run 30 minutes and takes me at least 20.
That doesn't count claying, compounding, polishing, waxing, leather cleaning and treatment, interior wipedown, extracting and working on stubborn stains.
Even if I just hit it with a one-step wax to save time, I've still got windows and a quality-control inspection to do. Did I leave out anything ? Oh yes ! The engine. Glad you reminded me but I skip the entire engine compartment and the spare tire compartment. It probably took me more than two hours to write this.
I talked to a former wholesale detailer today and asked for his speed secrets. Turns out that he cleaned the carpet by hand with a degreaser product and a car still took 4 hours to do.
So can anybody tell me how to reduce my time from 3-6 hours and if it is really possible to hit the 2-hour mark ? Let's hear from everybody, Bud especially.
Doug

Not all cars take the same amount of time obviously, but it is important as you go through your day to notice things you can do to cut your time so you do not spend a lot of time walking in circles around the vehicle. I see a lot of guys and gals who spend a lot of time on their cell phones at work, messing around with chemicals, standing around talking, and they complain about not flagging enough time every paycheck, but if you do little things like cutting some of these behaviors out of your day, you will find it can take less time to complete a project. We used to have one of Buds set-ups at a Lithia store in Renton, Washington, and as I studied the way the dispensing units are placed & how the chemical room is organized, you get a pretty good idea of how efficient the system could be, working smarter and moving a lot work through the shop. Then there is always the issue of training folks on these systems, some people like to do it their own way. Basically you will identify your own shortcomings and then make ajustments.

Detailing, An Art In Motion!

Doug:

You got to work faster!!!!


You cannot make blanket statements about anything. If, in saying it took 2 hours to do a full detail, I made a blanket statement I apologize.

As Steve says, not all vehicles are the same, so the time to do the work is not always going to be the same. Same, that is in terms of time and condition.

Take for example a Cadillac sedan vs a older style VW beetle. I find I could get the Caddy done faster, even though bigger, than the VW beetle due to the contraints in the size of the beetle and the curves and styling features in buffing.

Also a shop has to be setup like an operating room before you start. Everything needed to do the job once a person starts. If the detailer has to leave his work station everytime he needs another tool or chemical then it is going to take nothing but time.

Take, for example, the question you asked me about why have an air compressor. I listened all things you can do with an air compressor that would either not get done or would take HUGE amounts of time to without an air compressor.

In fact, tell me..............how do you get the dust and grit out of these areas without an air compressor and tell me, how many minutes does it take to remove the dust from each of these areas listed. I wold envision if you totalled the time to remove the dust and grit from the areas I listed it could take nearly an hour if you did it by hand.

As Steve mentioned, with our CHEMSPENSE equipment all you do is come in in the morning and check the container of chemicals. If it has chemical you simply turn on the system, if it is empty you replace it. No hand diluting no filling bottles and no looking for this bottle or that bottle. Your vacuum is right there and ready to use, one for each bay. Your soil extractor is right there and ready to use, one for each bay.

The Detail Cart is stocked with buffing pads; towels; buffing, shampooing and waxing tools; as well as razor scraper; buffing spur; brushes, etc.; garbage bin and dirty towel bin.

Like a surgeon in an operating room everything is at your fingertips to get the job done.

Too many detailers, because they cannot afford such sophisticated equipment as the CHEMSPENSE SYSTEM nor even comprehend such an organized shop, dispell such technology as even necessary. To admit it is necessary is an admission that they are not doing detailing as efficiently or as effectively as could really be done.

Those, and there are only a few, that could afford it and do not use it, are hampered by the "ostrich syndrome."

As I mentioned, we timed two DETAIL PLUS trained detailers who got the inside of a Tahoe done in 36 minutes. That is bagging all loose items in the car; taking out ashtrays and floormats cleaning and shampooing them and putting back and inside the car; blowing out with an air blower; vacuuming everything; then starting to clean and shampoo in this order:

a. Headliner
b. Trim
c. Dash
d. Panel
e. Glove Box
f. Steering column
g. Center Console inside and out
h. Shampoo carpets
i. Shampoo seats
j. Shampoo and clean door panels
k. Spray and wipe clean door jambs

FRONT AND BACK

l. Application of dressing on all vinyl, etc.
m. Cleaning of interior windows
n. Final vacuum
o. Spray of interior fragrance
p. Placement of floormat and seat cover in the interior

Total time, two men 36 minutes.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Your great Bud with your system. It would take me 1 1/2 hrs. to do that the old fashon way.

Thanks for those answers. I think this time issue is one of the trickiest in detailing. I knew a shop owner who claimed he could knock out one car every 2 hours retail but it took 3.5 hours to do a car wholesale for a picky dealer .

Another guy detailed for an auction and said two guys were expected to complete a car in one hour but the boss did not get upset if it happened to take longer.

I have indeed developed some systems of my own to speed things up. I've put together an interior kit consisting of detailing brush, pet hair brush, swabs,
towels, carpet brush, Windex Multi-task Orange, Meguiar's or Invisible Glass glass cleaner, Griot's Interior Cleaner and AM's Nu-car scent. The supplies are in a rubbermaid carry-all that I take into the car with me. There is a separate leather kit.

I vacuum first with a car attachment and a paint brush that is taped up to prevent scratching and has natural bristles. I use a carpet brush and a Quickie brand grout brush also. If I have to stop and change attachments, it is usually to use a turbo brush in the trunk or a flexible crevice tool between the seats. I have a 6.5 HP Shop Vac.

I'm experimenting with the "task specific" method, applying all dressing inside and out in one step. The dressing is sinply applied with a towel and tire sponge applicator and is not wiped or given more coats afterwords. I use Meguiar's #40 throughout except for some left-over Meguiar's Engine Kote ( now discontinued ) sprayed in the wheel wells.

I do a thorough wash and vacuum because anything missed will cause problems later. Normally, I give it a quick once-over with the extractor because thoroghness may soak the carpets and require more drying later.

The way I see it, prices are too low and time is the big enemy.

Doug

The key to speed is organization, having everything available before you start the job which eliminates the need to leave the work area.

Also, you need to have a step by step procedure you follow on every car. If the headliner is not dirty then skip that step and move on to the next step, and so on. If you do this on every vehicle you will be amazed how much time you save, even using chemicals in bottles and portable vacs and portable extractors.

Regards
Bud Abraham

buda

Bud:

You say 2 men detailed this vehicle in 36 minutes? Does that mean that each side took 18 minutes per man, or was it 36 minutes per man per side which would mean 72 minutes total?

Can you tell us some more about this vehicle?

Year?
2 door or four door with rear hatch?
Interior Color?
Leather or Fabric?
What kind of mats did the vehicle have? rubber or carpet?
any stains?
any animals?
any children?

Who were the occupants? eg: soccer mom? Salesperson? Single Male? Female?
On a scale of 1 to 10... (1) being excellent and (10) being filthy where on the scale did this vehicle fall?

This information should be available to you...as part of the diagnostic evaluation and interview with the client..

I also note that you did not mention cleaning mats or seat belts...Why? that should be part and standard in any interior detailing.

Did you pre-treat agitate with air brush before shampooing or did you just shampoo directly?

How were you able to detail including shampoo carpets/mats and have them dried in 36 minutes and be able to replace the floor mats on top of carpeting? From my experience the Tahoe has a rather thick carpeting which requires above the norm dyring times and unless you have a Turbo Towel dryer to accelerate how can you dry out a Tahoe carpeting in 36 minutes?

Did you dress door jamb rubber trim with any rubber dressings?

Did the customer request fragrance? and if not why would you automatically place fragrance in an automobile?

My reasons for asking these question are rather obvious... I clean every day for a living... and without apologies consider myself one of the best at cleaning interiors and we could never come close to the times you mention 36 minutes unless it was a (1) an extremely clean vehicle.

While I fully agree that it is important to have systems in place that are consistently followied so that when you clean you are ready to go.. I believe 36 minutes is an anomaly.

I agree, the interior may be very time consuming, just as the exterior maybe more than one bargins for.

I hate doing interiors, as do most men, which why women are much better technicans for interiors and quality control inspections as a rule.

It appears that several very old threads are coming back to the surface.

The main one being, "what does consitute a "detail", vs an express or maintance detail.

What "quality" of detail or reconditioning is being marketed, etc.

It has always been a point of contention among the professional detailing community as to what is a "detail" in the industry!

We have, as you are aware, a very large, many employee's, right equipment, processes/procedures in place, etc and just doing a "new car prep" for new cars for dealers, takes one person as little as 45 minutes to wash and seal.

If a larger vehicle, it can go as high as a hour and a half.

THAT'S a NEW VEHICLE!!!

And our facility will do in excess of 14,000 of them this year if the business stays as it is.

They are doing some used vehicles, with what I refer to as the "old slam-dunk", which is not a REAL detail, more of a "clean-up".

Wash, etc, some Fast Finish, etc, vac, maybe a little extractor work on the bad spots,etc.

But that is what the dealers want to pay for, so that is what they get.

Not a full, reconditioning, correct detail, with paint correction, interior done spotless, etc.

So, here we go again, "define what is a "detail"!

Ketch

Bud- Concoursgarage asked some important questions on this thread but you may have missed her post. If so, hope you'll reply to her now.
Doug
" What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right. "-LL Inst Bk

Gina:

Forgive the delay in replying to your post. I will try to give you as analytical an answer as I can to each question:

1. It was 36 minutes for two men so as you so aptly calculated it was 72 total minutes. That is an hour and 12 minutes. Ample time to do an interior detail when everything is at your fingertips, and you are operating with state of the art equipment.

2. Do not recall exactly the year of the vehicle, but this was a couple of years ago and I would estimate it was a 2002 or 03.

3. As far as I know, Tahoe's are only available in 4 door.

4. The interior color was tan.

5. The upholstery was leather and vinyl

6. It had carpet mats

7. Yes, there were stains.

8. Don't know if they had animals, no pet hair as I recall

9. Who knows if they had kids

10. Have no idea who owned the vehicle. I was only there to do training.

11. The vehicle was typical of what you see in a DETAIL PLUS equipped shop,
on your scale I would say it might have been 6 to 7.

12. Yes, one of the first things we do is clean and shampoo the mats and put
them under the backend of the vehicle to dry and so that someone remembers
to put them in the trunk when the car is done.

13. Yes, we have a step for doing the seat belts, I forgot to include that in
my dissertation on how we detail interiors. Sorry for the oversight.

14, As a matter of policy I do not put dryers in the interior unless the customer is coming to pu before the car is dry. We dictate to our customers that they bring the vehicle in the early AM and they can pick it up at closing. If they need it before then we can make arranagements, but we recommend a DETAIL PLUS customer operate just like an auto dealer. Bring it in the morning and pick it up at night. Customers are used to this type of automotive service.

15. We NEVER replace mats, putting them in the trunk, because as you so astutely point out the carpets are not usually dry. We tell the customer to remove them when they get home and let them dry outside the car. We also tell them to crack all the windows to let the car interior dry, including the trunk.

16. Turbo Dryers are available with all DETAIL PLUS detailing packages.

17. Yes, we recommend dressing the rubber on the jambs as a matter of policy.

18. We have one "mal odor" to kill the chemical odor in the interior. IT is not a recognizable scent, just a fresh clean smell. We feel this is necessary as some chemicals leave an unpleasant odor.

It was my understanding that while you and your father operate a detail business that you DO NOT DO THE DETAILING? Am I wrong on this point, or do you, in fact, get in there and prep cars; clean wheels; scrub and shampoo interiors and buff, polish and wax exteriors?

With all due respect your shop uses chemicals in squeeze and spray bottles and you probably do not have a vacuum and portable extractor on every side of every vehicle, with all tools, tools and buffing pads on every side of every vehicle.?

I could be wrong but your comments to me in the past lead me to believe that you have no more or no less equipment than anyother detail shop that manually dilutes chemicals and uses them in squeeze and spray bottles.

A DETAIL PLUS shop, at least the one I was in where the Takoe was done, was setup just like an operating room. Everything the detailer needed was right at their fingertips, they did not leave the car once during the entire detail process. They were trained in the DETAIL PLUS step by step procedure for interiors and that is what they did, step by step.

Frankly speaking it does not matter how dirty a vehicle is when you are using state of the art equipment, you go thru the same procedures whether it is slightly dirty, moderately dirty or real dirty. Of course, if the woman was a slob and threw her change on floor after going thru the fast food drive-thru and let her kids throw the fries all over the interior and spil their drinks on the carpets and fabric upholstery, it might take alittle longer. But in my 10 years of owning, operating and detailing cars I only had two that were like I described and that was not even a customer. I was part of a barter system and a barter customer brought his sister-in-law's car in. A pig pen, to say the least. I ask what her house looked like and he said, "When I want to see my brother and the nieces and nephews, they come to our house."

THe type of customer that lets their car get to that point is usually not a detail customer anyway.

Gina, state of the art detailing equipment; chemicals diluted automatically and dispensed to the work area; sufficient equipment to keep every detailer working and total shop ORGANIZATION is the way you get the work done quickly.

THat is why one buys equipment:

a. To increase productivity
b. Reduce labor
c. Improve quality

THe Tahoe was a perfect example of what a state of the art equipped shop can achieve.

By the way, how long does it take one man (excuse me, person)to prep a vehicle and what do you do in your prep process? Step by step, please.

Regards
BudAbraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

Gina:

Waiting to have your reply to my email, especially about your prepping process the time and what you do.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Bud:

Thanks for your response… The questions were intended to get a better understanding of the condition of the vehicle involved and a more precise cleaning time. As to the efficiency of your chemspense system I will leave that debate to people who have intimated otherwise.

As usual you are true to form… boorish, indiscrete, rude with appallingly bad manners to elaborate on the discussion in a public forum by personalizing the disccussion, involving my father and my personal business affairs. While we may have had discussions in the distant past it was never intended for public broadcast and your raising any part of these discussion in a public manner speaks volumes about your integrity as it relates to professional or private discussions.

Sir you are not a gentleman…and your apologies are never well intentioned nor sincere.

Gina:

It was clear to me the intent of your questions and that is why I so carefully attempted to answer them for you in detail.

Sorry that you took offense to my comments but it was you who questioned my statement that a car could not be done thoroughly in 72 minutes by two men.

You indicated your expertise and years in detailing and questioned that it could not be done.

My comments were only to point out that if you operated a shop with chemicals being manually handled and used in small plastic bottles and pump or squeezed out when needed, and you did not have a setup where a vacuum and extractor was on each side of the vehicle I would agree that you probably could not get the vehicle done in that amount of time.

There was no intent to personalize the posting, and if this offended you that is your choice.

And, if you choose not to accept my apologies, which are given with the greatest sincerity, then that is your choice.

Bud Abraham

gina,no disrespect to you but i would have to agree with bud on this one your reply did sound a little stand offish.i dont see how its unbelievable to think that two people working on a interior would take much longer than a half hour to forty five minutes.if you had one person on the inside i could see an hour to hour and a half.we do roughly 75 to 100 cars a week and these cars range from late model cadillacs to 97 soccer mom vans and we can pretty much knock them out in the above stated time frame.i find that exteriors is where my weekness is since its hard to find someone with proper buffing skills i have to do them all myself which ties up my bays and costs me $$$$$$$$$.gina i dont normally side with anyone so please dont take it personally and i can see where some of buds comments would come off as(im better than you are) but i also think his outside the box thinking and corporate like approach is some thing that this industry needs very badly.

Bud:

I now suppose you can add mind reading to all your other abilities since you are so clear about my intent.. To be clear the questions were designed to compare and evaluate MY OWN procedures to see where I was FAILING. it was not a test to see if YOU were being truthful

I questioned 36 minutes which later turned out be 1hour and 12 minutes a completely different time, which paints a differenct picture.

What I find appalling about you.. is your poor taste in repeating private conversations in a public fora and including other people into the discussion. There are some ethics that people such as yourself in business should adhere to.

Gina:

Reviewing the posting it is very clear, "it took two men 36 minutes" to detail the interior.

I do not know how much clearer it has to be that 2 times 36 minutes = 72 mintues.

Again, I am sorry if you felt that my mentioning "you and your father" was private confidential information. I never felt that such information was confidential.

If you feel that it is then again, "I apologize with the deepest regret" as I have no reason to insult you or offend you.

And, as you are pointing out, this conversation is between you and I so reply to me in private at buda@detailplus.com

Regards
Bud Abraham

Daver:

I do not think you disrespectful nor do I think you were taking sides. It is always good to hear objective advice from a fellow detailer. My questions were designed to see where I was failing.. as I could not see how the vehicle could have been cleaned in 36 minutes meaning 16 minutes person. An hour and 12 minutes paints a a more realistic picture.

While I fully agree that it costs $$$ NOT to maximize efficiency...it does not negate the fact that the discussion for chempsence could have been argued on its own merits. I do agree that we need thinking outside the box approach to this industry bu the gentleman needs to refine his delivery

gina: point taken.

Bud-
Why do you not use dryers to make the interior completely dry when the customer picks up the car ?
Doug

Doug:

There are two reasons we do not use dryers.

1. With our equipment and methods we do not get the interior that wet that
interior dryers are necessary.

2. We almost never deliver the car to the customer until the end of the day
so the interior is dry when they pickup the car.

NOTE. Certainly if we did a car from 8:30 to 9:30 and the customer was picking up the car at 10 we would put a dryer in it. But we work to be in control of our business day by telling the customer to bring the car in at 8 and pick it up at either 5 or 6. Works in almost all cases.

Bud Abraham

Bud-
I based my question on item #15 in your post earlier, in which you said the interior is not completely dry so you instuct the customer to leave the windows and trunk cracked open. I see now that you meant this is done on the rare occasions when a car is delivered early.
I take it the dryer does no harm but represents unnecessary work within your system.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Doug



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2006 06:59PM by Doug Delmont.

Not sure what you are driving at. What I said I thought was clear.

Bud Abraham

Bud-
I was trying to say that I now understand your position to be that you deliver the cars dry and that they dry naturally by sitting until delivered.
I further take it that dryers are necessary on rare occasions when cars are picked up early.
The big question I had was whether the dryers did any harm and the answer appears to be "No".
Therefore, if I wish to use my system of heated drying, it is O.K. My system is to run the car's engine and heater while running a Lakewood or Titan utility heater perched on the car seat sideways. The rear windows are open one inch.
I sometimes use a hair dryer or household fan to help dry the mats outside of the car.
I was not hinting at anything in my last post.
Doug

You have it right from my perspective.

If your system works for you, then you got to use it.

Did not think you were hinting at anything, I just did not understand what you were saying.

Regards
Bud Abraham

Here are a few ways you can speed up the detailing process :
1) Keep two bottles of each chemical so if you run out of something, you can simply grab your reserve bottle instead of interrupting the detailing process to fill one bottle. You can top up the bottles during slack periods.

2) Use a single product throughout when possible. One example would be using a water-based dressing such as Meguiar's #40 for all rubber and vinyl.

3) Use power tools and big tools whenever they will save time.

4) Group your chemical products by task, not by manufacturer.

5) Be thorough in the wash bay so you can breeze through later steps without pausing to remove tar or dirt you missed earlier.

6) While a product is drying or dwelling, do something else instead of waiting around.

7) Vacuum thoroughly and extract lightly. That way you reduce your shampooing time as well as your drying time.
Doug

In our shop a compeleat interior on the worst car is expected to be compleate in about 2 hours. On avrage a car will take ME 90 min on the inside. 60 if it is in good shape. that includes

-doorjams
-pressure washing the matts
-cleaning all vinal
-cleaning the headliner
-vacumeing everything
-steaming everything
-all glass

IMO detailing only includes cleaning the vinal and plastic parts (not vacume,steaming etc.)

Now that is me and i am not the fastest. Another guy can comlpeatly knock everything inside out under 1 hour.

The out side is also expected to be comleate in 2 max.
that inlcudes.

Prep for wax:
pressure wash
wash
acid the weels
clay
rewash
dry
tape in molding
Aply wax
remove wax
dress tires
clean glass

A compleate "inside/outside" will take just over 3 hours(for me if i am in the mood) others can go even faster.

I work at a dealership that handels customer cars so we are expected to have it compleate within 4 hours

Its not only the mecanics of haveing your suplies ready. Its also the methods you use and the order you do them. For example if you detail after you vacume you will stir up dust and you will need to retouch-up with the vacume.

I had the advantage of being taught a very fast methode and perfected it.(althow i am still in the proscess)

expereince is a huge factor. It used to take me 8 hours to do a compleate recondition.
-clean engine
-inside
-outside

Now i have brought that down to about 4 hours.

thanks jules

Our detailer is expected to do a complete in 4 hours, and he does it. A lot of times he is faster. It depends on how bad it is.Somethimes he has to do show car detailing, which means waxing the undercarrage. Of course that takes much longer.

Jules-
I'd like to hear more specifics of your detailing procedure. Hope you will post more.
Doug

" A merchant who approaches business with the idea of serving the public well, has nothing to fear from the competition."- J.C. Penney, 1918

OK doug

What i call detailing is everything accept the steaming and vacumeing. I see that that term here is a little incorect.

But for a compleat interior i start by

-pressure washing all the door jams
-then i spray the matts with a cleaner called purple power and pressure wash them.
-then i clean all the vinal
drivers door
dash
center console
passanger door
glove box
the back doors
the pillars
To clean these I use all-purpose cleaner to spray everything then I use a paint brush to work the cleaner into all the grooves (In textured vinal I will use a scrub brush). then i use compresed air and a rag to spary everthing away. Any stuborne spots I use a light degreaser called acrysol.

Then I spray the head-liner with all-purpose and wipe it with a rag. Anything suborne I ligtly scrub in.

Then what I call the "detailing" is done. Most of the time if it is just cleaned in dosen't need to be dressed, but we do dress dark vinal if it seems to need it ,after everthing is done.

....this all takes about 20-30 min.

Then I use a truble light to see into all the crevaces and vacume everything. So there is not dirt at all.

....this can take 20-40 min if the there is alot of hair

After the vacumeing i pre spot all the stains then steam everthing and stains that still remain I spray again and scrub out (the rule of thum is if it still moves then it will come out).

....this usualy takes 15 min if there are alot of stains it can take up to 40 min

After everything is steamed I go back with a chammy and wipe down all the vinal so there are no water spots.

Then I wipe all the door jams with a dirty chammy.

Then I clean the glass.

Then I suck any remaining water out of the mats and replace them. I put 2 plastic matts in the front.

After my work is duble checked by a second person we send it out.

When I 1st started it would take me 4 hours and there would stil be alot of touch ups after. Now its down to about 90mins. Today I did everything but steam in 25 min that was my fastest unit todate, but I was going all out (I was out of breath and my arms and shoulders were sore).


Sorry for my poor spelling.
Jules

Jules-
Thanks for the info. Your system differs from mine a great deal. It will probably be necessary to actually try it out to understand it fully.
I operate with primitive tools so my procedure is :
-Vacuum and detrash with 6.5 HP Shop-vac, brushes thoroughly
-Pressure wash mats, usually with Simple Green
-Pre-spot carpet with All Purpose Plus
-Wipe vinyl and leather with Windex orange multi-task for vinyl, Griot's Interior cleaner for leather.
-Remove carpet stains
-Apply carpet shampoo lightly and extract ( once-over )
-Dress Vinyl and leather ( Meguiar's #40 for vinyl, Griot's leather care product ).
-Window cleaning
-Set utility heater to help dry interior
This sounds a lot quicker than it is. The vacuuming runs about an hour...
The key may be whether compressed air and steam can reduce the time spent vacuuming enough.
Doug