help with scratches???

i have a new acura tsx and while washing the car i think some sand may have been in the towel so now i have some scratches on the trunk. the color is black.
tia

Since I cannot see the cars finish to make a proper evaluation, I would suggest that you take it to a professional detailer that knows how to eliminate, not cover up those scratches. Also "prevention" is the key to keeping your cars finish looking great so you will need to change your washing habits, toweling, and technique. If your car is a daily driver some cob-webbing (micro-scratching) is normal wear and tear. In the rain on the freeway for example a lot of dirt is brought up from the ground by all kinds of vehicles and the wash from these vehicles passes over your car, this causes the cob-webbing affect. Some wax and paint seal products will give you temporary protection. If you are not experienced with paint correction tools, I strongly suggest that you do not attempt to fix this yourself

Detailing, An Art In Motion!

tia,
To solve the problem :
1) Run your thumb nail over the scratches. If you can sort-of catch your thumb nail on the scratch, do not attempt to remove the scratch completely. Doing so would require removing too much paint. Remember that a scratch is a valley in the paint, so you cannot " take out " a scratch. All you can do is lower the surrounding paint until it is level with the scratch.
2) Instead of removing serious scratches, you can make them less noticable through the use of rubbing compound, cleaner, scratch remover products such as Meguiar's Scratch-X and one made by Nu-finish and with cleaner wax. Some products only correct problems and some help hide problems as well.
3) The professional procedure involes evaluating the paint condition, wet sanding where necessary, compound buffing, polishing or swirl removing and waxing. It sounds like big project but for a pro with all of the tools and products at hand, a trunk lid should not take long.
I have not seen your car and do not know your skill level. In general, an amateur cannot duplicate the results of a good professional detailer.
Use the search feature to peruse past posts on this subject.
It is good to see new people participating in this forum. Welcome aboard !
Doug

" A society without frugality loses its capacity to evaluate what is really precious. "-Mark Rutland-

Tia, Stephen Britz, in his post above, makes a good point in recommending you go straight to a pro. After I posted, I realized that you are dealing with a new car. If you do damage in trying to correct the scratches, that would be serious on this car. Also, on a new car, you presumably want to end up with the best possible finish, not just to smooth out the scratches.
Pro detailers are charging very low prices nowadays, something I dislike but which is a benefit for the customer. A first-class job may cost less than you imagine.
Doug

What happened to your car when handwashing it was what was proven in the University of Munich study of hand washing vs machine washing for Mercedes Benz. That hand washing often results in dirt and grit getting into the mitt or sponge and acting like a piece of fine sandpaper. Not to mention what happens when you had dry a vehicle vs the touchless methods of air dryer in an automtic car wash.

To correct the problem go to a professional detailer without question. But make they know what they are doing. Make them tell you how they will correct the problem. What tools; pads and chemicals they will use to get the result you want. Do not let him "fill" the scratches with wax.

Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

thanks to all who replied. i'm going back to the dealer and i'll let them look at the scratches.

ps doug tia means thanks in advance

tony

"To correct the problem go to a professional detailer without question."

Bud's advice is valid. Odds are that the dealer is not the best place to correct the problem, and may well make it worse...

Good Luck.

Jim

well i finally got the car to the dealer. they buffed it out but told my wife it got through the clearcoat??? what does that mean and what should i do ?
tia

Ynot6352-
Your post is more vague than you think. You could be saying that the scratches are deep enough to penetrate the clearcoat and reach into the pigmented paint or down to the metal. OR...you could be saying that the buffing operation removed all of the clearcoat. Either statement is doubtful.
If they actually buffed away all of the clearcoat in an effort to remove the scratches, they damaged the car and owe you a repair. If the scratches were too deep to be removed, you should have been able to feel them with your thumb nail before the repair was attempted.
Stephen was right that a good pro detailer is likely to be better for this work than the dealer. I think you should call the dealer, read them what I wrote above, and ask them what they meant by "it got through the clearcoat".
If the scratches are mostly gone and your paint still looks shiny, things are probably O.K. A check with a paint depth guage will tell you how much clear you have left.
Let us know what you find out. I'll attempt to forward an email that will have a link to get Griot's free manual online.
Doug

ynot- Your email address is hidden. you can visit www.griotsgarage.com and look for a link to download the book or phone them.
Doug

Obviously an idiot buffed out the car or they would have known to measure paint thickness before and during the removal process. If they went through the top layer of paint (clearcoat) as you say, then your actual color (basecoat) is at risk. The dealership/employee is therefore responsible for the damages. If you buffed through the paint on my car you would pay to have it fixed by a reputable shop, and you would never touch my car again period.

Also, if you had followed my suggestion in the first place and taken your car to a professional detailer you would be reporting a much more positive outcome. You come to a site where there are the best in the business and you ask for help and then you do it your way, why???

Stephen-
You are right but remember we are going by what his wife told him the dealer told her ( see my post above ). In any case he can't go wrong by having it measured and evaluated by a good pro detailer.

I imagine ( correct me if I'm wrong ) that it would take a lot of buffing to remove 2.5 mils of brand new factory clearcoat so the whole story looks like a possible misunderstanding. What do you think ?
Doug

Mr. Delmont:

First of all, rarely if never are you going to see factory clearcoat at 2.5 mils. Second, I am not going to assume anything other than what was posted. Third, do I really have to convince you of how fast you can buff through paint?

By measuring the paint thickness on the car at this point it will only tell you how much overall paint is on the vehicle (from steel substrate to top layer) now. Most detailers at dealerships are not going to have an ETG to measure paint thickness, so you will not be able to tell exactly how much of the clear was removed because there will be no record of it, unless of course the dull basecoat is exposed.

Put this thing to bed Doug!

Detailing, An Art In Motion!

It appears the following:

1. You scratched the car by handwashing as I posted weeks ago.

2. You took it to the dealer for buffing and they often have less than qualified detailers working on the finish.

Are there spots on the car where the color is dull compared to other parts that are shiny? If there are then the dealership detailer did buff thru the clear coat.

If there are not then you have no problems, other than the car might have a great deal of buffer swirl marks in the paint.

It is unlikely you did anything by handwashing other than put a few minor scratches in the clear coat that any professional detailer can remove with a buffing, polishing and waxing process.

If you have problems in the paint that are beyond what they were when you took it into the dealer then it is their detailer's fault and I would push them to fix it. But I would question clearly what the detailer is going to do. Most have no idea what to do because even the dealers themselves do not know what to do.

If they give you the least bit of guff, simply tell, "that's fine, I will file a claim in small claims court over this," and leave. If you do that, and what you say is correct you will "win" the consumer almost ALWAYS wins against a dealer in small claims court. You will get back your filing fee, and you will get the cost to properly correct the paint. Find a detailer who is a pro and knows what they are doing and have them give you an estimate to fix the paint.

Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS

Doug,

They said the scratches penetrated the clearcoat and the scratches are still visible. I can feel them with my fingernail.

Stephen,

b4 you take my head off for posting why didn't you ask me what area of the country I'm from and offer some detailers in my area. The car is my daughters and she was only around for the weekend so I wanted to bring the car back for a look see at the dealer, I've known him for 20 years. If you have the names of some top notch detailers in the New Haven,Ct. area it would be greatly appreciated.

Tony

ynot6352:

I will not apologize for what I said, too many times people will not follow our suggestions here and they end up with more issues to deal with in regards to their vehicles than they started with. You don't go to a lot attendant if you want your detailing done by a real detailer, blowing up balloons and finding a place to hide is their specialty. I will PM you with some information, let us know how it worked out for you please.

Detailing, An Art In Motion!

For those who wish real information, regarding factory paint systems, such as clear thickness, how the various layers are applied, what they are, etc.

Go to www.autoint.com and click on the Tech Tips section.

There is, courtesy of PPG, the entire process, average thickness, etc.

In our work with Ford, we also produced some photos of reading with an ETG electronic gauge each layer.

Knowledge that is documented, information provided by those who supply to industry various components, etc is much more useful than what is often thrown out here by people "who THINK' they know it all".

Ketch

Tony-
There are some on this forum who are easily irritated but I'm not one of them.
Sorry if I gave you the impression that I know it all. I don't. In fact, until I read some posts here, I thought the "Big Three" were named Curly, Larry and Moe. ( JOKE )
Anyway, if you'd like some more advice from a rank amateur who doesn't sell chemicals, here it is :
When in doubt, preserve the clearcoat. you shouldn't remove more than a third or half a mil of it. If you do, you increase the chances of the clearcoat peeling or wearing away prematurely someday. If the trunk still looks terrible, it may be possible to re-spray the clearcoat ( don't blame me when it peels ) or to have a good touch-up man fill the scratches with clear touch-up ( but I doubt this will work well ).
At this point, considering it is a daily driver and not a show car, I'd assume the dealer removed enough clearcoat and simply keep it waxed and move on.
If you check out the products at Wal-mart, sooner or later a shopping cart will run into the car and you'll forget all about the scratches. ( JOKE )
Are the scratches less noticable now than before the dealer worked on the trunk lid ?
Hope you managed to download the Griot's manual. You may want to visit www.meguiars.com for info--also www.malms.com
Some of the people who work at dealerships are competent so I think the blanket assumption that all are butchers is extreme. In any case, good luck !
Doug



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2006 01:32AM by Doug Delmont.