cleaner waxes

Waxes that have cleaners in them like Meguiars ColorX and klasse all in one is this good for your paint to me to use often to me it would seem no.

suggestions questions smart remarks

thanx kerr

The abrasives in ColorX on a 1-10 scale is appox 2 were as the average polish used is approx a 4 on the same scale.

So it would be quite some time to 'wear down' the clear coat, but it's always worth paying attention to the abrasive product you use as the clear coat is the same thickness as a single sheet of Saran wrap...


Don't ever stop learning; [always keeping an open mind]

Thats very interesting, how about clay bar? does it wear down the clear coat?

More of what i meant is to say which is my fault for not being more specific.

What effects do these products have on inducing swirls on the paint since they are abrasive. seems overkil to me doing more harm than good

kerr :
Cleaner waxes normally don't produce swirl marks. Such marks are more likely to be caused by trapped dirt under a wiping rag or applicator or a rag of the wrong material.
Some cleaner waxes are abrasive or harsh enough to dull the clearcoat by roughening it a little.
Most of today's clearcoat-safe waxes are mild and repeated use is unlikely to thin the clearcoat significantly. My experiance indicates that almost every paint job needs a little cleaning to remove staining. Therefore, a mild polish or cleaner-wax is called for.
A clay bar should not wear down the paint at all. The clay slides over the paint on lubricant and shaves off anything that sticks up from the paint.
Meguiar's NXT, Medallion, and Gold Class waxes contain very little cleaner and should not dull the clearcoat.
Doug
" The progress of the world is slow because people don't learn from others' sad experiance."

BTW-
In the latest Consumer Reports test of 28 waxes, none got a "Poor" rating for scratching/hazing but some only rated "fair".

Some products, such as Blue Poly have been reformulated to make them less abrasive than they were when first introduced to the market.

Doug

Kerr:

Let's get things straight here.

A wax or paint sealant do not have abrasives in them. They are intended for protection only and some shine.

Swirl Removers/Polishes have micro or nano abrasives in them sufficient to take out swirls and/or fill nano swirl/scratch marks, but for all intents and purposes these abrasives are not sufficient to cause scratches as you indicate.

One Step, Cleaner-Glazes, One Shot; Cleaner Waxes, whatever you want to call them are, in most cases, all about the same. They are really nothing more than a professional version of a bottle of retail Turtle Wax. A bit of abrasive; a bit of low quality wax; a lot of filler. The intent of these products was to give the detailer a cheap product that they would use on a dealer car, who does not pay much, to get it done in one step. That is, if the paint will cooperate.

They are not something a car enthusiast should use on their vehicle nor are they something that you should use on a retail customer's car.

The products on the retail market with Color in them are even worse, in my opinion. They have a lot of dye in them to supposedly cover chips. Do they, I think not.

Compounds are formulated with different types of abrasives, the most common on silica which does not breakdown when used with a buffer and aluminum oxide which will breakdown as it is used. A good compound has a combination of both.

Compounds are available in grit sizes based on what the detailer or body shop needs. The simple catagorization is Heavy, Medium, Light and now Micro-Fine.

At our company we choose to use numbers:

600 Extra Heavy
800 Heavy
1200 Medium
1500 Light Medium
2000 Light
Micro-Fine

Most companies have all of these but under some brand name. For example, 3M calls their extra heavy compound, Heavy Duty Compound; another company calls it Rough & Ready, we used to call 600 grit Liquid Compound.

The process to follow in working on a paint finish,if there are problems is:

a. Correction of a problem with compound
b. Removal of swirls and polishing
c. Protection.

The only step that requires a choice is the first step. That is, which compound and which pad. The second and third steps are always the same.

Hope that helps your knowledge of paint finishing chemicals.

Regards
Bud Abraham
DETAIL PLUS SYSTEMS
buda@detailplus.com

Comment on Bud's statement that cleaner waxes are pretty much the same:
In my tests, I've found a wide variation in one-step products. For example, Mother's California Gold Cleaner Wax does not seem overly aggressive and does a great job. Ford's old Silicone Gloss Polish was very aggressive and Ford has since replaced it with milder products. I found Valugard OEM ( since renamed ) seemed harsh and dulling. 3M Finish Restorer wax cleaned well but did not seem very harsh.
Cleaner waxes run the gamut from some that are more or less polish mixed with wax to some that are more like compound mixed with wax. It is a mistake to say they are all pretty much the same.
Also, Turtle Wax markets a wide array of waxes including their Carnauba T-6 ( which rated high in the Consumer Reports test), Platinum, Super Hard Shell( which I found a bit hard to wipe off ), Finish 2001 ( which I found mediocre ) and a couple of polymer sealants I've used with varying results. I'm not a cheer leader for Turtle Wax but I think it is misleading to refer to their products as if they only offer one wax.
Doug

TOGWT said the clearcoat is the thickness of a sheet of Saran Wrap. With all due respect to that brand of food wrap, the clearcoat paint is much thicker, about as thick as two layers kitchen trash bag ( 1.8 mils ).

The closest thing Zaino makes to a cleaner-wax is Z-5, a sealant/swirl remover combination. I haven't tried it yet. For serious cleaning, Zaino sells a separate cleaner product called Fusion. ( www.Zainostore.com )
Doug