am looking for work this summer in the auto detailing sector, I have 10 years exp. auto detailing rustproofing and undercoating. I live about 100 miles north of Toronto thanks

Crowbait-
I doubt enough people read this forum for it to land you a job. But your secret is safe with us (LOL). I hope you've looked at resources like Craigslist. I found the site when I stumbled onto The Best of Craigslist, a sometimes raunchy but funny collection of mostly-angry essays. They have a section for your employment needs too...
One of the Craigslist "rants" was by a car mechanic complaining about the filthy cars he has to work on. It would have given the guys here a laugh.
Doug

thanks for answering my add Doug, In the winter I operate sander for the highways, usually construction for the summer thought that I might get back into detailing that I used to do seems it would be something more my pace. Oh buy the way my name is Jim.

Jim:
As you know, detailing as an employee pays poorly. Perhaps you can get a dealer to hire you to organize his detail shop and act as a foreman or manager for the summer. You'll need a resume and a convincing manner as well as a plan to make the dealer money. If you can set off an airport metal detector, you've got too many piercings-personal appearance counts big. You can select and print important passages from this forum and compile a loose-leaf notebook of detailing techniques---show the book to prospective employers !
Doug

Doug: Your absolutley right, car dealers pay poorly like someone there said "they want chamagne work for beer wages. I worked for a G.M. dealer in British Columbia from 1978 to 1990 as a deatailer, when I started I new nothing about detailing at all. Over the course of 10 years, I learned a lot of techniqes as well as undercoating and rustproofing. We since moved to Ontario where I wanted a break from detailing, and I've kept busy working costruction and winter highway maintainance. My thought was to keep my winter work and because summer is always a busy time of the year (here anyway) I would like to find a dealer that would perhaps hire me on a pay per job basis (as I no longer move like speedy gonzoles) However I am happy with the knowledge I have gained over the years. I've learned it and I've earned it, and if I can share my knowledge with someone, so be it. But, I won't give it away for free. Oh by the way I don't look like a walking jewllery store with rings and studs hang from my face, with pink hair and tatoos. Heck I have trouble going to the doctor for a needle for crying out loud. I feel I carry myself about as professional as would be expected of any individual. Concerning resumes, I have got only one job using a resume. My jobs have always come from going right on the job site, talking directly to the boss. And yes I find this site very informative even after 10 years I'm still learning. thanks to all who have posted info on this site Jim

Jim-
Feel free to post some of your tricks and time-savers here on the forum. I'm sure you know some things others don't.
One point in favor of resumes, if you'll bear with me : You can deliver a resume in person. If the prospective employer doesn't listen to everything you tell him about yourself, he will read it later and the resume can only reinforce it. A resume can save you from filling out time-consuming job application forms too.
Emailing a blizzard of resumes may not be your style but it is not costly and could possibly work.
Just because something worked in the past, doesn't mean you should stick to it ; remember the story of the man who found a $10 bill on the street and never saw the sun again (LOL).
"Post if you find work"- Doug

Ever notice when vacuuming interiors of vehicles especially older ones that after you have vaccuumed the seats, if you smack the seat with your hand you keep getting a plume of dust, like you never vaccuumed. I would always use a flat wooden paddle and alternately vaccuum and paddle the seat until there seem to be no more dust. One of the things I learned over the years. Seems while looking for work that everyone wants to pay your minimum wage and expects you to put out a hundred cars a day. I'll keep looking and until my prospective employer and I can come up with somthing we're both happy with Jim

Jim-
Good tip on beating dust out of seats. Thanks.

If you are going to do dealer/wholesale work, you may be able to tailor the quality to the price offered. Let me clarify that : You could agree to do the standard steps on each car on the condition that the dealer give up the right to expect everything to get clean-you'd use a wheell cleaner -agitate and rinse on each wheel but if the brake dust remained, it would be the dealer's problem.
You would one-step wax the paint but any remaining cobwebbing would be HIS problem. You would clean all glass but not guarantee to leave no smears. Door jambs and engine area could retain some dirt. This kind of job is far quicker than one where the customer expexts you to keep trying until it is perfect.
The key is to have a meeting of the minds and a written agreement. Otherwise, the dealer will bid low and then complain and harass you 'til he gets high quality without paying for it.
Doug

Very good point there Doug, I like that idea, because if you don't introduce some sort of a plan for cleaning a vehicle you can bet that in most cases the customer will go over your work with a fine tooth comb and if they find some mark or stain thats usually from long term wear and tear, they will argue about paying the bill. Hind sight is 20/20 vision. Thanks Jim

Crowbait

You said you are 100 miles north of Toronto. That sounds like my neck of the woods, I live in Orangeville Ont, which is close to 100 mile north of T.O. I am a private detailer working out of my garage for four years now. I work allmost solely for dealerships here. I have worked for 4 dealerships over the four years usually about 9 to 10 months a dealership. There is one major commercial detailer here and they are rank amateurs. It is incredible what they get away with and have a bad name around, I stop in there from time to time at the end of the day when the so called finished vehicles are been picked up, Every time I couldnt believe the terrible work they do and all and they charge a'lot, it is incredible what they get away with, I would be ashamed to let that out of my shop. I know all the garages in town and they have an incredible time finding good detailers, one was firing and hiring every second week, and these were guys that just had to do a light clean up on the demos,vacuum,windows and dash wipe and they couldnt even do that. It sounds like you have lot's of experience and talent. I know the dealerships pay next to nothing to these guys. I charge $140.00 for a van/suv and $120.00 for a car which is very reasonable considering some big filthy suv vans I work on for up to 17 hours.(taking out and putting back seats is never easy or quick) A garage pays a guy $9 an hour, $72 a day. A'lot cheaper than $140.00 however the finished product won't be no where near mine and consumers will offer a'lot less for it. Many dealerships don't realize this. I have been told that I've increased the re-sale value of many vehicles up to a $1000. I don't want to brag but all the dealerships I have worked for all have been amazed at my work and never I mean never had anything negative to say, just praise, that's because I treat every vehicle like it was my own, and I'm a perfectionist, not many detailers take out all the seats out of their vehicles like I do. The dealerships hire me and love my work however sooner or later they find someone that can do average work and hire him thinking they will save money. I recently lost my account with the Chev/GM dealership which I worked for 10 months, they hired a guy and are paying him peanuts. I got a feeling I'll be hearing from them soon. Hope you find this helpfull and hope you find work, just not here in Orangeville, ha ha. take care.

spotless guy.

Spotless guy: I live in Foots Bay, right near Mactier. Sounds like you have a lot of experience detailing. Actually I am one who believes in taking the seats out of a vehicle when doing what I call a complete. Shampooing a cars complete interior is a lot easier with the seats out than in. Up in my neck of the woods the closest town is 25 miles away where not a lot of detailing goes on. Like you say dealers are hoping that they can hire a $9.00 an hour student and get results that you would get from a pro. It hasn't changed, dealers still expect champange work for beer prices, I think that quote came from Bud Abraham (good quote and true.) I will be starting off looking for part time work this summer possibly one day a week. One thing I will disagree with you on is I don't think Orangeville is 100 miles from Toronto more like 100 km. Later Crowbait

Jim and Spotless...
Are you guys aware of the special procedures for removing seats that contain side air bags ? Honda says to make sure you have the radio anti-theft code, turn the ignition off, and disconnect the battery ground cable. Then wait three minutes. If you don't follow procedures, you are risking expensive injuries and damage for a little better cleaning.

Spotless : What are you charging in U.S. dollars for 17 hours of work in a mini-van detail ?

If you two want to make money, I think you should offer dealers a choice between a "Show Car Detail" and a "Standard Reconditioning". Then you could appeal to the price shoppers as well as the quality buyers. If you want never to compromise your art, paint cathederal ceilings the way Michelangelo did and leave it at that.

Also, what about Philip's statements against pressure-washing carpets ? I think his comment deserves reply.

Just my kind, compassionate, thoughtful opinion, two cents worth, FWIW, etc. (LOL)
Doug

Doug: I never personally use a pressure washer on a car interior, too much mess to clean up later, After a good healthy vacuuming I use a rug extractor using the small hand held spray applicator and extractor, usually works well for me. I never have removed car seats with the side air bags, but it makes good sense to unhook the battery before attempting to remove seats. Jim

Not all dealerships are cheap.
I got a call from a high profile dealership last spring which was funny as i have never advertised asking for my services in the other town just north east of orangeville. Btw i,m in caledon just 15 minutes from orangeville.My average price for say a f150 was $240 at $40 an hour ( hack remover swirls,true interior cleaning,etc)
THis dealership runs weekly ads in the local papers and were advertising "SHOWROOM CONDITION" used cars with a pic of the autos i detailed on the front page . My autos stuck out like a sore thumb from the others and sold very quickly

ps spotless guy, a high end client of mine(land developer) is building a spotfree car wash with an auto mall beside it in orangeville,he wants to rent me a unit for deatiling but i passed so your safe lol but i,m sure it will be rented to a new deatiler as it should be finished in the spring

The guy that made the comment about pressure washing the interior as crazy is entilded to his own opinion. However he said that they don't detail any vehicle under 50 grand. First of all any vehicle over 50 grand is not going to be too old and it certainly not going to be too dirty. I could clean those carpets with a tooth brush and a bit of spit, those type of vehicles are mostly exterior oriented that require professional waxing. I should put some pics on here of some of the vehicles I have done, you'd be shocked., They were absolutely brutal, you would just shake your head and wonder how this vehicle got so filthy, exspecially the family vans, true horror stories that had the dealership apologyzen to me when I picked it up. The majority of vehicles I do are in the five to thirteen thousand range with many never been cleaned before. Like I said before many I worked on for up to 17 hours on many a vehicle:hardend gum,solid candy,food particles,hay,sawdust,grease,animal waste,and weird marks and stains every where, these vehicles were no joke. How many fifty grand vehicles have that? The pressure washer technique I use is immense labor saving with these vehicles and I never had a problem and don't expect to, it takes great skill and attention and is not for amateurs. I've down a few expensive vehicles, Cadillac,Corvette,Hummer. These vehicles like most high end vehicles were a piece of cake to do and I finished in a few hours, couldnt believe how easy they were. Heck I would trade a 2000 Chev Astro with a 190,000 klms that looked like a goat and a pig were living in it on a fifty grand vehicle any day. And concerning the seats I have taken out, which is many and a few Hondas, I have never had any problem at all, however the newer expensive vehicles with lot's of wire and software, I won't touch those, mainly because what Ive been saying they are never dirty enough to have to remove the seats. No I do the vehicles that no one else wants to and I do them very reasonable and bring them back to life and ready for a nice profit.

spotless guy.

Spotless Guy :
If you are spending hours getting carpets clean and have to remove the seats to do so, at what point does it pay to replace the carpets instead ? After all, the dealer is likely to understand that new carpets cost money but may think cleaning should be cheap. You might be able to find some carpet cheap and use the old carpets as a template to cut it to exact size.

Assuming you need $40 U.S. an hour to stay profitable and applying that formula to a 17 hour job, you must charge ( wait while I multiply this out ) $680 in U.S. dollars. What, if you feel like revealing it, do you charge for these 17 hour jobs ?

I hope you are making enough to save at least 3K a year for retirement because the odds are that your physical condition will force you out of detailing before you reach age 55.

If you are saying you have removed airbag-equipped seats without following the safety procedures and had no problems so far, I hope you can see the error in that line of reasoning ; one accident would cancel out all the times you got away with it. Example : I worked with an old mechanic at a dealership, who smoked while draining gasoline for 27 years and he said it hadn't caught fire yet. Would you say that made his actions prudent ?

This is to explore ideas, not to pick at everything you say. Hope I'm not sounding argumentative. Your info has been valuable and I'm hoping to learn more from you.
Doug



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2007 01:26AM by Doug Delmont.

Spotless guy
Age has little to do with the condition of a vehicle ,its the enviroment which it is in as well as the client of course.
I do many new over 50 grand pig stys like the almost dozen major construction companies and practically all the major tradesmen around the area and most get dirty quick because of the work enviroment not the client.
I also love those mini van moms($150 interiors) but i don,t take no 17 hours .
Sounds like you need a commercial vapor steamer to speed up your cleaning time ,i don,t mean the piece of crap on sale for $50 at ct every week i mean one that cost over 2 grand ! i have had mine for over 6 years i love it!

Most detailing business have a least two many times three guys workin on any given vehicle, of course they can finish a vehicle in no time. How ever I work completely alone, no help at all and that's the way I like it. No boss yelling at me,no better have it by five or your fired! I do not work well under pressure. The dealerships understand this and don't mind at all of the extra time because they know they are going to get the maxium dollar from the finished product. Detailing isnt my only source of income, I have other endevours, I do it because I enjoy it and I make pretty good money at it also. The 17 hour vehicle I did was the most extreme the majority were around 10 hours which is totaly understandable considerating the absolute filth and the size and that one man is doing it. That was a garage I worked for several years ago, they gave me the absolute worse everytime, the dealership I work for now is totally different I usually have them done by five, big difference. And because of the time and effort I put into these 17 hour vehicles the dealership was able to attain a $1000 more for this and the other ones I did for them. I usually chare $140.00 plus $10.00 for the motor however in these cases I usually charge an extra $25.00 bringing it up to $175.00 which is quite reasonable and about two hours are taken off for drying everything, I don't loose any sleep over the time and work I put into these vehicles. Now the carpets like some one had mentioned on here were not the maxium time consumer, in fact I can clean the carpets and seats within an hour and a half, they are never a time consumer and it's something I don't find difficult. It is the compartments the many compartments and the rubber and the seals and vents, with hardend gum and candy, pet hair imbedded into the fabric like quills headliner full of hand grease marks,the q-tips and mini foam brushes and tweezers to getting behind the door hinges, fold up seats from huge suv'S with steel bars and plastic every where covered with every imaginable filth, every nook and cranny, these are the things that take time, these are the things that require patience and skill. Now I can go on and on about techiques and time and effort however when it comes down to it the bottom line in auto detaing is customer satisfaction. My customers are and have always been extremely satisfied, something every detailer should live by. There should be an auto detailing contest and show., They could have an event over a couple days, you know with all kinds of companies and booths, selling products and showing the latest techniques and then they could have a detailing contest. You get vehicles that are similiar in size and filth and detailers would do their best on their given vehicle and after a panel of experts would judge to see who was best and they could give out really good prizes or money. I think this would be really fun and enjoyable and open the world of auto detailing to the public, what do you all think, SOUND GOOD?

spotless guy.

sounds like you know what your talking about there spotless guy, no need to apoligize to others for your cleaning techniques. Your work speaks for itself. If after you clean a vehicle for someone and they invite you back,your hired. crowbait

If you put a pile of kids in a old Astro or in a new Escalade they make the same mess. I run into every thing mentioned in the above post daily. I to have the Perfectionist problem. I tell people that Ive turned a personality disorder into a pretty good living. Now I do have a few customers who keep their cars pretty clean and they dont take long at all. But the idea that people with nice expensive vehicles keep them clean couldnt be further from the truth. Most of the time they dont appreciate what they have and treat it like crap. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on carpet cleaning methods. But more importantly why would you only charge $140 for all that work? I bet the dealers do love you they're making out like bandits! I would'nt even fill the bucket up for a large SUV for under $250 and people are glad to pay it. And when they see the car afterwards they feel like they got a great deal. I'm not hackin on you but your selling yourself way short if you are doing all that stuff for $140.

Philip
Manager of detail Depmnt, Hadwin White Buick, GMC
Myrtle Beach, SC
E-mail: philipwsuggs@hotmail.com