Why are there so many products for shine and protection of clear coat paint?

I was thinking why is there always new products and manufactures coming out with another wonder item that has a name like "touchless"or"ice"?I remember back several years ago,there was some new infomercial pushing some new snake oil product that someone is spraying lighter fluid on the hood and starting it on fire
to make a point.It strikes me as strange why a can of wax in K-Mart goes for a couple of bucks, but when you put a fancy name on it sells for thirty bucks or
more.Wax has been around forever, and years back people called it simoniz your
car instead of waxing.Even the major companies have spray,paste,and liquid wax
brands that you see on sale when they replace it with another name.

I cannot believe that there is not a product out there that will give you a great
shine and protection for more than a month.I am not talking about a cure for cancer here.

One thing that I will never understand is why wax continues to be
a the standard that people use to put on their paint for protection.It
melts at around 90 degrees and sticks to the surface. Dirt, salt, grime, bugs,
and many other things embed into it which causes a build up and dulling.
A dish soap like Dawn or Joy will break it down, and from what I have experienced
it leads to correction with a wheel.

I would be interested on your feedback.

There is a good article on automotive Waxes and Paint Sealants in the January issue of Professional Carwashing & Detailing that might shed some light on this question.

If you cannot find it let me know marnie@the-ida.com and I will send it to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2010 03:41AM by marnie.

The cheap can of wax at K-Mart does not compare to Malm's, Griot's , P21s or other expensive waxes.

Even among cheap waxes, there are differences. Mother's California Gold is good. Meguiar's NXT Tech Wax is more expensive and also good. Both are better than Turtle Wax Super Hard Shell IMHO.

So far, I've found nothing that beats Zaino, a poly sealant.
Doug

Hey Doug, I glad that you are alive and kicking.Mabe now Bud has somewhat of a allie aganst billd55.

Before I retired, I often was asked this same question.

Our plant/blending facility "private labeled" many products for other companies.

From the really big one's to the smaller boutique marketers.

Often the product was one we had on the shelf, so to speak.

By that I mean a formula we had developed and owned all rights to it.

Depending on how smart the companie's marketing plan was, it was more of our just changing the dye for the color and the bottle and label.

The smart ones knew what their target market was, what that market would favorable respond to, label, "story", color, fragrance, etc.

We did what they wanted and it was their job to sell it to the target customers.

With our decades of experience in this business we also recognized that many would never suceed, be out of business in a year to three.

That is why, 1/2 down to start the order, other half before it left the plant.

This is how this business has been since the late 50's, really picked up steam in the late 60's and progressed to where it is today.

Ketch



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2010 05:36PM by Grumpy2.

Larry-
Good to see you are still here ! Actually Bud and I disagree a lot but I guess we are allies in this debate.

Bill-
In my experience, wax can get stained over time but it does not,as you say " lead to correction with a wheel ". You can either remove the wax with with Meguiar's All Purpose Plus at 64:1 or with Griots wax removal stuff or with Dawn. Compounds, polishes, and even cleaner-waxes will remove wax residue if you use them, making de-waxing unnecessary.
As for bugs embedding in the wax...C'mon, the wax layer is too thin to hold a bug and its slickness actually makes it easier to wash bugs off.
Doug

there are plenty of products that will last many months and up to a few years

Gtechniq crystal lacquer (instantly cures with paint molecules)
Toughseal (acrylic)
GLARE (glass)
Aquartz (glass and titanium oxide)
Matrix Micro coatings

natural wax is no good anymore for protecting paintwork. anything that is water based and just sits on the surface of the paint like waxes and some polymers do, aint gonna last

wax can attract dust, water mark and all sorts.

Quote
Doug Delmont
Larry-
Good to see you are still here ! Actually Bud and I disagree a lot but I guess we are allies in this debate.

Bill-
In my experience, wax can get stained over time but it does not,as you say " lead to correction with a wheel ". You can either remove the wax with with Meguiar's All Purpose Plus at 64:1 or with Griots wax removal stuff or with Dawn. Compounds, polishes, and even cleaner-waxes will remove wax residue if you use them, making de-waxing unnecessary.
As for bugs embedding in the wax...C'mon, the wax layer is too thin to hold a bug and its slickness actually makes it easier to wash bugs off.
Doug

have to disagree with you there doug
Paint decontamination and neutralisation is a necessary thing. just washing, claying and then machine polishing is not enough

yes by machine buffing you will remove the wax or sealant but the silicone and other ingredients in common wax and sealant products will make your buffing a hell of a lot harder to perform, clog up your pads, reduce the abrasive polishes working time, produce dusting and maybe even leave a hazy finish

the whole substrate has to be flushed clean of silicone, waxes, dirt, insect shit, abrasive polish powder that clogs pores thus reducing clarity, tree sap, iron particles and much more

once this is done, claying can be performed and you wont destroy your clay bar and from there, a silicone/grease and wax remover spray from any of the paint manufacturers plus an IPA and water solution wipedowns finishes off the process and your now ready to polish abrasively or use special paint cleaners, glazes and sealants to fill in defects, enhance the finish and seal it all in

buffing will be easier, less product will be needed and a superior finish thats ultra long lasting will occur

Buffer Bill

What is the chemical makeup of Dawn that you believe it works to clean the paint surface?

Can you expand on this for us?

I do not know the chemical makeup of Dawn. What it does is to remove old wax and
dirt and grime before using a clay bar.Also, it keeps the acrylic sealant clean
and keeps the shine.

How can you use something that is made to wash dishes but not for cars? How do you know it does not have something in it that will harm paint, plastic, glass?

Did you realize that Dawn is a degreaser? Does car wash shampoo have degreasers in it?

What would a degreaser do to wax or paint sealant on a vehicle?

Regards

Bud

Really, I give up with you. I cannot tell if you are plain stupid or hard headed.
You do not ask questions for answers, but just to find a reason to argue. I cannot answer your questions anymore because you do not want answers. You just want someone
to agree with you.<br>

You asked these questions before,and all I can say is try the product and you will figure it out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2010 07:01PM by billd55.

Bill

Only trying to point out that you recommend doing things without having any basis in fact.

If you are going to use a chemical you have to know more about the chemical, than "it works."

There are meaning people coming to this forum for solid advise and it is imperative that those who are giving advise "know what they are talking about."

When I question you it is because you make statements that I know are not true in fact, or are your opinion. If they are opinion that is fine, state it that way so that people can determine if it is true or not.

For example, what you say about your "acrylic sealant" is opinion, no basis in fact.

When someone disagrees with what you say it is not personal, I am sure you are a very hardworking, well intentioned person but it is important that when you make recommendations you know what you are talking about and why.

Regards

Bud: Dawn is one of the best degreasers to remove wax, oil and grease from the paint surface of an automobile. Dawn is required by some sealant/protection manufacturers as a precursor to the application of their protectant because they know the surface will be absolutely clean.

If you have never tried it you should... want to cut grease from vehicle when a hydraulic fluid line has burst ...dawn to the rescue... want to remove a grease spot from your shirt.. put a dab of dawn and work into the stain wash and voila grease is gone! If you do not like your hair color dye...too strong or dark.. wash your hair with dawn and it will immediately reduce/adjust the color. So even though it is formulated to wash dishes I have a long list of things I use to do in detailing.. That is the beauty of being fluid as a person... try and test products you might just be surprised... If it is safe enough for hands it safe enough for paint.

Gina

Thank you so much for your comments.

The point of my post was not to question that Dawn would work for what Buffer Bill recommend, but to caution people on using products that were not formulated for that purpose. That is how accidents happen.

Engine degreaser would clean carpets too, are you recommending that you use engine degreaser on carpets because they clean them well?

Point is that if you are going to use a product, especially a "retail" product you know what is in the product and why it works as it does.

Question? If you had a hydraulic leak put oil on a vehicle why would you not use a pre-spray that is formulated for that purpose? Why pay outrageous retail prices for Dawn?

Regards
Bud Abraham

Not familiar with the pre-spray you are talking about... Dawn works fast and is safe and removes all the oil from all the surfaces quickly... It is not expensive or outrageous... you do not need a gallon as it is a concentrate.

Gina

Most car wash chemical companies make a chemical product that is called a pre-spray to put on vehicles prior to entering the car wash.

This would be perfect for a particularly dirty or oily car that was to be handwashed.

Again you miss my point, I am not saying that Dawn does not work I am saying that Dawn is a dishwashing detergent, not a car wash shampoo or pre-spray, nothing more. Who knows what is in the product? You know it works but you do not know what it contains.

As for price you can buy 1 gallon on Amazon.com for $13.60 gallon which is not outrageous, but add to that the freight and now the price is far higher. Not sure what it sells for in a retail store, but I am sure it is much higher than that.

Let's not beat this topic to death, Buffer Bill made his point, you have made yours and I have made mine.

I am sure no one else really cares any futher

Regards
Bud Abraham

Quote
If you do not like your hair color dye...too strong or dark.. wash your hair with dawn and it will immediately reduce/adjust the color.
Gina are you talking from personal experience ;-) couldn,resist BTW good info
Old school detailers would use dawn to shampoo the interiors of course they would be hours trying to get the soap out of the carpet...